What I noticed btw on some streams is the expectation/reality of more Jace was apparently causing Jund to play less Kolaghan and more Maelstrom Pulse. On plus side that doesn't create 2 for 1 blowouts but that can kill any of the walkers you have out.
Kitchen finks I suppose makes sense, just feels kind of bad to have to use in DGA. Solid protector of the planeswalkers though. Although bob starts to become liability with so many high CC cards in deck.
So many issues a simple turn 3 Batterskull could have fixed
Oh btw jund also uses treetop village as man land. Also if want to try to keep sculler and going to start playing relic in MB, may want to also think about borrowing tech from similar build of eldrazi processor and run Wasteland Strangler which also doubles as extra removal against things like 5c humans
I really don't like the way that build plays out. Its curve is way too high; it has much worse mana with all the WW; it just feels crappy. I think I will stick with my old build for a while and see what problems materialize in practice.
Much like any other midrange deck, I'm just trying to disrupt the opponent and out-value them. I'm mostly playing to get to where both the opponent and I are playing off the top, and then use all of the interactions between each card to start making advances thanks to Vault of the Archangel.
I know that the two Rest in Peace look redundant in the sideboard, considering the four maindeck Relics, but they are there just for additional graveyard hate (that doesn't affect me), as well as making it so the hate is diverse.
I also understand that the manabase might look a little odd, with having fetches but no shocks. This is because the deck reliably hits all the colors it needs, avoiding problems with Blood Moon, Seas, etc.
Gonti's been amazing every time I've played him. He's a must-remove creature that can keep Tarmogoyfs, etc., at bay until the opponent finds some removal for him. He's pulled great cards from my opponents, helping me blow out the opponent with cards they don't know to play around and can't discard from my "hand". Getting multiple triggers off of him is the dream, as we are now not just getting additional resources, but pulling those cards from the opponent's deck.
The reasoning behind Inspector over Wall of Omens is that a topdecked Inspector is much better in the late game when Vault is out, being able to trade with much larger creatures.
I'm still unsure about Aegis of the Gods, but it seems good at slowing down or crippling decks like Storm, Ad Nauseum, Burn, etc. It's a threat that they must remove.
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
Evil presence may be better than contaminated ground. They probably aren't dealing themselves all that much damage with the land, that having it cost only 1 may be better.
Maybe not, I could be wrong, but could be worth a try.
The biggest issue with Tron is that we're 2-5 damage short almost every game. The person who suggested the change said Tron ends up dealing this much damage to themselves through Contaminated Ground.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Modern:
Amulet Titan
BGx
Dredge
GDS
Hollow One
Living End
Mardu
Traverse Death's Shadow
Sooo I'm not sure where I'd post this, but this Thread seems pretty on-topic for this idea.
I'd like to see if there's a viable Build that would use the synergy between Karn, Scion of Urza and Tidehollow Sculler. Between Sculler, some vehicles like Looter Scooter or Heart, 3-drop Planeswalkers like Lili or Gid of the Trials, and also running the usual Lingering Souls and discard/removal package, that you'd have a fantastic disruption package with a really powerful grinding engine in Karn. Making a 4/4 or drawing you cards every few turns sounds incredibly powerful, and I feel like if I could figure out a truly nasty creature package to pair this idea with, it could have a lot of potential.
Ever since playing Stoneforge Mystic in some casual games, I’ve been chomping at the bit waiting for her (hopefully inevitable!) unban. I’m also feeling a strong desire to play an interactive, discard-heavy Bx midrange deck to go along with my other main decks (UW Control and Ad Nauseam). With those incentives in place, BW Midrange seems like the perfect fit. To that end, I’ve been working on a list in order to stay ahead of the meta (and the price spikes lol) if and when SFM is unleashed.
I hope it isn’t too off-topic to post the list here and ask for critiques. It’s been performing very well in testing, but then again it’s utilizing a card that’s still on the banned list! Beyond these recent games, I have no experience playing BW/Deadguy, so any pointers will be well received. Thanks.
Ever since playing Stoneforge Mystic in some casual games, I’ve been chomping at the bit waiting for her (hopefully inevitable!) unban. I’m also feeling a strong desire to play an interactive, discard-heavy Bx midrange deck to go along with my other main decks (UW Control and Ad Nauseam). With those incentives in place, BW Midrange seems like the perfect fit. To that end, I’ve been working on a list in order to stay ahead of the meta (and the price spikes lol) if and when SFM is unleashed.
I hope it isn’t too off-topic to post the list here and ask for critiques. It’s been performing very well in testing, but then again it’s utilizing a card that’s still on the banned list! Beyond these recent games, I have no experience playing BW/Deadguy, so any pointers will be well received. Thanks.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
[quote from="SavageGaul »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/572973-bw-midrange-deadguy-ale?comment=1188"]Cool list man, have you considered pack rat? I feel the card is a lot better than tidehollow sculler.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
Thanks! I have considered Pack Rat, but after reading the last ten or so pages of this thread, I see that most people have been less impressed with it lately than they were in the past. Then again, that seems to be true for Sculler as well. It seems to me that there isn’t enough discard fodder in the deck to allow for Pack Rat and Collective Brutality to coexist in the main, and I’ve always been a huge advocate for Brutality. Still, I’m interested to hear your case for Pack Rat!
A friend has been kind enough to indulge me in a whole lot of testing, and in those games Sculler has been strong. My build is all-in on discard, making Sculler more likely to stick than most shells. He is granted an additional layer of protection by the equipment toolbox—a Sword to keep a Sculler alive and turn him into a dangerous attacker and value engine feels great in a grindy game.
Mirran Crusader has always been one of my favorite cards, and I agree that he’s strong here. He’s in the maybeboard of the above build; I have also been testing a legal version of the deck (-3 Mystic, -1 Batterskull; +1 Steelshaper’s Gift, +2 Smuggler’s Copter, +1 Mirran Crusader) and he’s been solid.
Our sideboards look quite similar (especially considering my omission of Stony due to SFM). The big question I have for you is about Liliana, the Last Hope, which my first draft of the deck ran as a one-of main. I love her in most Bx decks, but here I feel that her -2 isn’t consistently good enough to warrant a place. She’s still fine against weenie decks, but I’ve had better luck with the planeswalkers that produce tokens. What are your experiences with her?
Thanks for the discussion! Orzhov is the coolest color pairing in Modern IMO.
What are everyone’s thoughts on the likelihood of the SFM unban happening in the near future?
[quote from="SavageGaul »" url="/forums/the-game/modern/established-modern/midrange/572973-bw-midrange-deadguy-ale?comment=1188"]Cool list man, have you considered pack rat? I feel the card is a lot better than tidehollow sculler.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
Thanks! I have considered Pack Rat, but after reading the last ten or so pages of this thread, I see that most people have been less impressed with it lately than they were in the past. Then again, that seems to be true for Sculler as well. It seems to me that there isn’t enough discard fodder in the deck to allow for Pack Rat and Collective Brutality to coexist in the main, and I’ve always been a huge advocate for Brutality. Still, I’m interested to hear your case for Pack Rat!
A friend has been kind enough to indulge me in a whole lot of testing, and in those games Sculler has been strong. My build is all-in on discard, making Sculler more likely to stick than most shells. He is granted an additional layer of protection by the equipment toolbox—a Sword to keep a Sculler alive and turn him into a dangerous attacker and value engine feels great in a grindy game.
Mirran Crusader has always been one of my favorite cards, and I agree that he’s strong here. He’s in the maybeboard of the above build; I have also been testing a legal version of the deck (-3 Mystic, -1 Batterskull; +1 Steelshaper’s Gift, +2 Smuggler’s Copter, +1 Mirran Crusader) and he’s been solid.
Our sideboards look quite similar (especially considering my omission of Stony due to SFM). The big question I have for you is about Liliana, the Last Hope, which my first draft of the deck ran as a one-of main. I love her in most Bx decks, but here I feel that her -2 isn’t consistently good enough to warrant a place. She’s still fine against weenie decks, but I’ve had better luck with the planeswalkers that produce tokens. What are your experiences with her?
Thanks for the discussion! Orzhov is the coolest color pairing in Modern IMO.
What are everyone’s thoughts on the likelihood of the SFM unban happening in the near future?
</blockquote>
I like pack rat because of dark confidant, and because pack rat allows me to go for a more aggroish plan if need be as well as allowing me to bin dead cards. I should add that I play 0 brutality in the main because I'd rather be discarding to pack rat or lotv than brutality.
As for liliana, the last hope, I like her as a value engine against slower decks like lantern, uw control, and other decks where critical mass of cards is important. I also like her as an additional removal spell against decks with smaller creatures like goblins, death and taxes, and humans.
Lastly, Stoneforge mystic is an awesome card, and would be a great card to unban imo, I believe it is one of the most likely things to be unbanned if any. Here's the thing though. Wotc has had a record of being WAYYYYY to cautious in terms of b&r, and after the most recent unbans, I think wizards is probably too scared to add another card to modern that many players seem to think is "busted" or will "break the format" so I doubt they will do it. Although I wouldnt expect to see another unban for a least another year from now anyways, but I guess all we can do is speculate.
Anyways here's my full decklist if you're curious.
Modern:UBRDeath's ShadowUBR, CEldrazi StompyC,WUBRGSliversWUBRG, UBRGTraverse ShadowUBRG,RUGtempo pileRUG Pauper:UdelverU they slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..
I like pack rat because of dark confidant, and because pack rat allows me to go for a more aggroish plan if need be as well as allowing me to bin dead cards. I should add that I play 0 brutality in the main because I'd rather be discarding to pack rat or lotv than brutality.
As for liliana, the last hope, I like her as a value engine against slower decks like lantern, uw control, and other decks where critical mass of cards is important. I also like her as an additional removal spell against decks with smaller creatures like goblins, death and taxes, and humans.
Lastly, Stoneforge mystic is an awesome card, and would be a great card to unban imo, I believe it is one of the most likely things to be unbanned if any. Here's the thing though. Wotc has had a record of being WAYYYYY to cautious in terms of b&r, and after the most recent unbans, I think wizards is probably too scared to add another card to modern that many players seem to think is "busted" or will "break the format" so I doubt they will do it. Although I wouldnt expect to see another unban for a least another year from now anyways, but I guess all we can do is speculate.
Anyways here's my full decklist if you're curious.
I like the look of the deck. Aven Mindcensor obviously has a lot of uses, but seeing two maindeck is rather uncommon. Is that primarily a hedge against Valakut decks?
As for SFM, I agree with you that WoTC has a history of proceeding with extreme caution in terms of unbans. That said, the recent unleashing of JtMS and BBE would actually seem to generate incentive toward more unbans, at least to me. Neither card has come anywhere close to taking over or unbalancing the format. There’s little reason to beilive SFM would warp Modern where Jace didn’t (before the unbans, most pros were saying that BBE and SFM would be fine, while there was more ambivalence about Jace).
Moreover, SFM only slots into “fair” strategies, and nothing that’s currently tier 1; incentivizes interaction on both sides of the table; boosts the most underrepresented color in the format; lines up well against Humans, Hollow One, and other current format kings without rendering them obsolete; and has never even been tried in Modern. These are all things that people already know, I’m sure, but the fact still remains that there’s no compelling reason to leave SFM on the banlist as things stand.
When SFM does come up for discussion in general Modern threads/forums, most people talk about how she will fit into UW or D&T. But I’m making the dark horse prediction that BW (possibly including a microsplash into R, depending on what the meta shares of various decks would look like) could be her best home. So if anyone would like to go deep into the tank on my list above or other iterations of Orzhov Stoneblade, I’m down.
Sooo I'm not sure where I'd post this, but this Thread seems pretty on-topic for this idea.
I'd like to see if there's a viable Build that would use the synergy between Karn, Scion of Urza and Tidehollow Sculler. Between Sculler, some vehicles like Looter Scooter or Heart, 3-drop Planeswalkers like Lili or Gid of the Trials, and also running the usual Lingering Souls and discard/removal package, that you'd have a fantastic disruption package with a really powerful grinding engine in Karn. Making a 4/4 or drawing you cards every few turns sounds incredibly powerful, and I feel like if I could figure out a truly nasty creature package to pair this idea with, it could have a lot of potential.
Any ideas?
Some food for thought: Tidehollow Sculler, Smuggler's Copter, Blade Splicer, Thraben Inspector. These are all reasonable midrange cards that are or produce artifacts. I think the problem is that Karn would be your only payoff card for the artifact theme and that alone doesn't make it worth it.
Hi guys, first time poster here. Been playing Deadguy Ale since the last modern season after making the switch from Tokens. Played this at GP Sydney's main event (our team went 3-3 and dropped)however I beat Jund, went decently against Humans (one of players being Tomoharu Saito, punted hard g2 and 3), got stuck on 2 land both games vs Hollow One (turns out they eventually won the whole event), and UW control.
After seeing Gifted Aetherborn being used here, I tried it out as a 2 of on Friday (3-1) and Tuesday (2-2). Seemed good enough at those numbers without overcommiting to black.
On an iteration I want to try this week, I'm going a bit more hand attack with Tidehollow Scullers.
Following changes -
+ 2 x Tidehollow Sculler
+ 1 x Concealed Courtyard
+ 1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- 1 x Collective Brutality
- 1 x Fetid Heath
- 1 x Field of Ruin
Sideboard:
+ 1 x Collective Brutality
- 1 x Timely Reinforcements
The Kalitas was a last minute addition (i've tinkered around with it before). But I'm worried dropping down to 23 lands might mean 3 4 drops a bit much. Just prepping this for the upcoming modern season.
This deck is really strong, I think if you wanna build deadguy ale it should look somthing like this. I did crush Tron, Spirits, Hardened Scales yesterday by trying this out and it feels really strong by first impression.
For that you would make the mana worse though, as you would need 18 white sources for a turn 4 gideon then, and this list only plays 14. So you loose the benefit of being able to play colourless lands pretty much.
This is the list I've been trying out recently. I'm not really sure about the main board kambal and some of the sideboard slots though.
I will say I'm not really sold on bridge or sorin solemn visitor. Bridge seems super awkward a lot of the time and that sorin is less than impressive if you have little to no board presence.
As far as matchups have been, combo and midrange have felt quite favorable, UW control has been even to slightly favored, but I've been getting steamrolled pretty hard by humans. If anyone has some advice for sideboarding or how to approach aggro matchups that would be awesome.
One final note, the Gideons have been well worth the slots so far. 4-mana Gideon in particular is very nice to have in tandem with sorin and lingering souls against UW as sources of creature production past all the boardwipes.
Edit:upon further testing I just wasn't sideboarding heavily enough for humans/aggro in general.
What I noticed btw on some streams is the expectation/reality of more Jace was apparently causing Jund to play less Kolaghan and more Maelstrom Pulse. On plus side that doesn't create 2 for 1 blowouts but that can kill any of the walkers you have out.
Kitchen finks I suppose makes sense, just feels kind of bad to have to use in DGA. Solid protector of the planeswalkers though. Although bob starts to become liability with so many high CC cards in deck.
So many issues a simple turn 3 Batterskull could have fixed
Oh btw jund also uses treetop village as man land. Also if want to try to keep sculler and going to start playing relic in MB, may want to also think about borrowing tech from similar build of eldrazi processor and run Wasteland Strangler which also doubles as extra removal against things like 5c humans
edit: I'll probably be working on Esper for a while. Here's my starting point:
4 Mutavault
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 River of Tears
2 Sunken Ruins
4 Polluted Delta
4 Marsh Flats
1 Flooded Strand
2 Watery Grave
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Swamp
1 Island
1 Plains
4 Dark Confidant
4 Snapcaster Mage
Artifact
4 Smuggler's Copter
Sorcery
4 Lingering Souls
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
Instant
4 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
2 Countersquall
2 Collective Brutality
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
I've been slowly tinkering with my own BW Midrange list, and this is the build I'm playing now:
4 Caves of Koilos
4 Concealed Courtyard
4 Plains
3 Swamp
4 Marsh Flats
3 Vault of the Archangel
1 Wastes
Creatures (24):
4 Thraben Inspector
4 Tidehollow Sculler
3 Wasteland Strangler
3 Eldrazi Displacer
3 Flickerwisp
2 Eternal Scourge
3 Restoration Angel
2 Gonti, Lord of Luxury
4 Relic of Progenitus
Sorcery (6):
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
1 Pithing Needle
2 Aegis of the Gods
1 Eternal Scourge
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
3 Mirran Crusader
2 Rest in Peace
2 Disenchant
2 Fragmentize
Much like any other midrange deck, I'm just trying to disrupt the opponent and out-value them. I'm mostly playing to get to where both the opponent and I are playing off the top, and then use all of the interactions between each card to start making advances thanks to Vault of the Archangel.
I know that the two Rest in Peace look redundant in the sideboard, considering the four maindeck Relics, but they are there just for additional graveyard hate (that doesn't affect me), as well as making it so the hate is diverse.
I also understand that the manabase might look a little odd, with having fetches but no shocks. This is because the deck reliably hits all the colors it needs, avoiding problems with Blood Moon, Seas, etc.
Gonti's been amazing every time I've played him. He's a must-remove creature that can keep Tarmogoyfs, etc., at bay until the opponent finds some removal for him. He's pulled great cards from my opponents, helping me blow out the opponent with cards they don't know to play around and can't discard from my "hand". Getting multiple triggers off of him is the dream, as we are now not just getting additional resources, but pulling those cards from the opponent's deck.
The reasoning behind Inspector over Wall of Omens is that a topdecked Inspector is much better in the late game when Vault is out, being able to trade with much larger creatures.
I'm still unsure about Aegis of the Gods, but it seems good at slowing down or crippling decks like Storm, Ad Nauseum, Burn, etc. It's a threat that they must remove.
Video of it in action can be found here.
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
Lantern Control
(with videos)
Uc Tron
Netdecking explained
Netdecking explained, Part 2
On speculators and counterfeits
On Interaction
Every single competitive deck in existence is designed to limit the opponent's ability to interact in a meaningful way.
Record number of exclamation points on SCG homepage: 71 (6 January, 2018)
"I don't want to believe, I want to know."
-Carl Sagan
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Fetid Heath
4 Field of Ruin
2 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
4 Swamp
Artifacts (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Anguished Unmaking
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
Sorceries (11)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (10)
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
3 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Disenchant
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Mirran Crusader
3 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
3 Mutavault
2 Shambling Vent
3 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Plains
4 Marsh Flats
1 Polluted Delta
Artifacts (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
Instants (5)
4 Fatal Push
1 Path to Exile
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (15)
3 Bloodghast
4 Dread Wanderer
4 Gravecrawler
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Kataki, War's Wage
1 Engineered Explosives
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Path to Exile
2 Damnation
1 Disenchant
Not traditional Dead Guy Ale but I've been having success with this list. I wrote a primer here.
Someone also suggested Contaminated Ground over Fulminator Mage to help shore up the Gx Tron matchup, although Fulminator Mage is also great versus manlands such as Celestial Colonnade.
Amulet Titan
BGx
Dredge
GDS
Hollow One
Living End
Mardu
Traverse Death's Shadow
Maybe not, I could be wrong, but could be worth a try.
Amulet Titan
BGx
Dredge
GDS
Hollow One
Living End
Mardu
Traverse Death's Shadow
I'd like to see if there's a viable Build that would use the synergy between Karn, Scion of Urza and Tidehollow Sculler. Between Sculler, some vehicles like Looter Scooter or Heart, 3-drop Planeswalkers like Lili or Gid of the Trials, and also running the usual Lingering Souls and discard/removal package, that you'd have a fantastic disruption package with a really powerful grinding engine in Karn. Making a 4/4 or drawing you cards every few turns sounds incredibly powerful, and I feel like if I could figure out a truly nasty creature package to pair this idea with, it could have a lot of potential.
Any ideas?
Ever since playing Stoneforge Mystic in some casual games, I’ve been chomping at the bit waiting for her (hopefully inevitable!) unban. I’m also feeling a strong desire to play an interactive, discard-heavy Bx midrange deck to go along with my other main decks (UW Control and Ad Nauseam). With those incentives in place, BW Midrange seems like the perfect fit. To that end, I’ve been working on a list in order to stay ahead of the meta (and the price spikes lol) if and when SFM is unleashed.
I hope it isn’t too off-topic to post the list here and ask for critiques. It’s been performing very well in testing, but then again it’s utilizing a card that’s still on the banned list! Beyond these recent games, I have no experience playing BW/Deadguy, so any pointers will be well received. Thanks.
4 Concealed Courtyard
2 Godless Shrine
4 Swamps
2 Plains
2 Shambling Vent
3 Field of Ruin
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Vault of the Archangel
4 Dark Confidant
3 Tidehollow Sculler
1 Batterskull
1 Sword of Fire and Ice
1 Sword of Light and Shadow
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
3 Bitterblossom
4 Lingering Souls
The sideboard is less fixed, but right now it’d be something like this:
1 Settle the Wreckage
1 Path to Exile
1 Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Runed Halo
1 Anguished Unmaking
2 Disenchant
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Damping Sphere
Cool list man, have you considered pack rat? I feel the card is a lot better than tidehollow sculler.
Also in terms of your sideboard, have you considered mirran crusaders? They make MUs against other Bx midrange decks way better, and are really good with swords. For reference, this is my sb:
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
3 Damping Sphere
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
Thanks! I have considered Pack Rat, but after reading the last ten or so pages of this thread, I see that most people have been less impressed with it lately than they were in the past. Then again, that seems to be true for Sculler as well. It seems to me that there isn’t enough discard fodder in the deck to allow for Pack Rat and Collective Brutality to coexist in the main, and I’ve always been a huge advocate for Brutality. Still, I’m interested to hear your case for Pack Rat!
A friend has been kind enough to indulge me in a whole lot of testing, and in those games Sculler has been strong. My build is all-in on discard, making Sculler more likely to stick than most shells. He is granted an additional layer of protection by the equipment toolbox—a Sword to keep a Sculler alive and turn him into a dangerous attacker and value engine feels great in a grindy game.
Mirran Crusader has always been one of my favorite cards, and I agree that he’s strong here. He’s in the maybeboard of the above build; I have also been testing a legal version of the deck (-3 Mystic, -1 Batterskull; +1 Steelshaper’s Gift, +2 Smuggler’s Copter, +1 Mirran Crusader) and he’s been solid.
Our sideboards look quite similar (especially considering my omission of Stony due to SFM). The big question I have for you is about Liliana, the Last Hope, which my first draft of the deck ran as a one-of main. I love her in most Bx decks, but here I feel that her -2 isn’t consistently good enough to warrant a place. She’s still fine against weenie decks, but I’ve had better luck with the planeswalkers that produce tokens. What are your experiences with her?
Thanks for the discussion! Orzhov is the coolest color pairing in Modern IMO.
What are everyone’s thoughts on the likelihood of the SFM unban happening in the near future?
I like pack rat because of dark confidant, and because pack rat allows me to go for a more aggroish plan if need be as well as allowing me to bin dead cards. I should add that I play 0 brutality in the main because I'd rather be discarding to pack rat or lotv than brutality.
As for liliana, the last hope, I like her as a value engine against slower decks like lantern, uw control, and other decks where critical mass of cards is important. I also like her as an additional removal spell against decks with smaller creatures like goblins, death and taxes, and humans.
Lastly, Stoneforge mystic is an awesome card, and would be a great card to unban imo, I believe it is one of the most likely things to be unbanned if any. Here's the thing though. Wotc has had a record of being WAYYYYY to cautious in terms of b&r, and after the most recent unbans, I think wizards is probably too scared to add another card to modern that many players seem to think is "busted" or will "break the format" so I doubt they will do it. Although I wouldnt expect to see another unban for a least another year from now anyways, but I guess all we can do is speculate.
Anyways here's my full decklist if you're curious.
2 Bloodstained Mire
4 Concealed Courtyard
1 Fetid Heath
4 Field of Ruin
2 Godless Shrine
1 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
4 Shambling Vent
4 Swamp
Artifacts (4)
4 Smuggler's Copter
2 Anguished Unmaking
4 Fatal Push
2 Path to Exile
Sorceries (11)
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Thoughtseize
Planeswalkers (4)
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Liliana of the Veil
Creatures (10)
2 Aven Mindcensor
4 Dark Confidant
4 Pack Rat
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
3 Damping Sphere
1 Flaying Tendrils
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Mirran Crusader
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Stony Silence
1 Surgical Extraction
Pauper: UdelverUthey slaughtered my deck i miss gush and daze..Turn 6 Karn > Turn 2 Phage
I like the look of the deck. Aven Mindcensor obviously has a lot of uses, but seeing two maindeck is rather uncommon. Is that primarily a hedge against Valakut decks?
As for SFM, I agree with you that WoTC has a history of proceeding with extreme caution in terms of unbans. That said, the recent unleashing of JtMS and BBE would actually seem to generate incentive toward more unbans, at least to me. Neither card has come anywhere close to taking over or unbalancing the format. There’s little reason to beilive SFM would warp Modern where Jace didn’t (before the unbans, most pros were saying that BBE and SFM would be fine, while there was more ambivalence about Jace).
Moreover, SFM only slots into “fair” strategies, and nothing that’s currently tier 1; incentivizes interaction on both sides of the table; boosts the most underrepresented color in the format; lines up well against Humans, Hollow One, and other current format kings without rendering them obsolete; and has never even been tried in Modern. These are all things that people already know, I’m sure, but the fact still remains that there’s no compelling reason to leave SFM on the banlist as things stand.
When SFM does come up for discussion in general Modern threads/forums, most people talk about how she will fit into UW or D&T. But I’m making the dark horse prediction that BW (possibly including a microsplash into R, depending on what the meta shares of various decks would look like) could be her best home. So if anyone would like to go deep into the tank on my list above or other iterations of Orzhov Stoneblade, I’m down.
Some food for thought: Tidehollow Sculler, Smuggler's Copter, Blade Splicer, Thraben Inspector. These are all reasonable midrange cards that are or produce artifacts. I think the problem is that Karn would be your only payoff card for the artifact theme and that alone doesn't make it worth it.
After seeing Gifted Aetherborn being used here, I tried it out as a 2 of on Friday (3-1) and Tuesday (2-2). Seemed good enough at those numbers without overcommiting to black.
1 Arid Mesa
3 Concealed Courtyard
1 Fetid Heath
1 Field of Ruin
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
3 Plains
1 Polluted Delta
2 Shambling Vent
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Vault of the Archangel
Removal (16):
1 Anguished Unmaking
1 Cast Down
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
4 Path to Exile
2 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Zealous Persecution
1 Brimaz, King of Oreskos
4 Dark Confidant
2 Gifted Aetherborn
2 Jotun Grunt
Other Threats (11):
1 Elspeth, Knight-Errant
1 Gideon of the Trials
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
4 Lingering Souls
1 Sorin, Lord of Innistrad
1 Damnation
1 Damping Sphere
1 Disenchant
1 Duress
1 Rest in Peace
1 Runed Halo
2 Stony Silence
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Thalia, Guardian of Thraben
1 Timely Reinforcements
1 Wrath of God
1 Zealous Persecution
On an iteration I want to try this week, I'm going a bit more hand attack with Tidehollow Scullers.
Following changes -
+ 2 x Tidehollow Sculler
+ 1 x Concealed Courtyard
+ 1 x Kalitas, Traitor of Ghet
- 1 x Collective Brutality
- 1 x Fetid Heath
- 1 x Field of Ruin
Sideboard:
+ 1 x Collective Brutality
- 1 x Timely Reinforcements
The Kalitas was a last minute addition (i've tinkered around with it before). But I'm worried dropping down to 23 lands might mean 3 4 drops a bit much. Just prepping this for the upcoming modern season.
This deck is really strong, I think if you wanna build deadguy ale it should look somthing like this. I did crush Tron, Spirits, Hardened Scales yesterday by trying this out and it feels really strong by first impression.
Did anybody try this against a control deck yet?
This is the list I've been trying out recently. I'm not really sure about the main board kambal and some of the sideboard slots though.
I will say I'm not really sold on bridge or sorin solemn visitor. Bridge seems super awkward a lot of the time and that sorin is less than impressive if you have little to no board presence.
As far as matchups have been, combo and midrange have felt quite favorable, UW control has been even to slightly favored, but I've been getting steamrolled pretty hard by humans. If anyone has some advice for sideboarding or how to approach aggro matchups that would be awesome.
One final note, the Gideons have been well worth the slots so far. 4-mana Gideon in particular is very nice to have in tandem with sorin and lingering souls against UW as sources of creature production past all the boardwipes.
Edit:upon further testing I just wasn't sideboarding heavily enough for humans/aggro in general.