Personally I prefer Rakdos Charm. It's more flexible as it is good against a wider variety of decks. Not to mention that it adds to the count for reveler and doesn't require it to be in your opener. Sometimes as a late game draw, the card can be really powerful too.
However, it does come at a cost. The 2 mana is relevant. Sometimes ( even saying this is weird) the 2 mana is too slow to react to their play.
Personally, I think you need to pick and chose your hate card wisely. This is one of those times. these spells all come at a cost. Leyline has to be in your opener for it to be relevant most of the time and doesn't add to the count, Spell bomb is 1-2 mana and can cantrip but doesn't add to the count, and charm is 2 mana and adds to the count but could be too slow.
Not seen much talk about Goblin Rabblemaster as a sideboard option, but i have seen it as a 3 of in multiple 5-0 lists and Oliver Tiu had 2 copies in the side for his top 16 deck at gp Hartford.
Some bullet points about that list compared to my version:
4 GY hate in the SB, exactly like mine and I also think the way to go. Don't know about Leyline yet, but maybe its justified.
2 Terminate over 1/1 split with Dreadbore. I think this is very correct to do now, Jace or other PWs are absent and I thought about cutting Dreadbore again for a while now.
21 Lands. Could be a bit much, but sometimes having 1 landers with 20 land list are quite awkward, so this is probably for consistancy reasons.
3 LoTV, which I like. Its a powerful PW, which can pull its weight in a lot of matchups.
No Blood Moon. Well I think, this depends on the presence of Tron atm.
Big fan of that Magma Spray in the board. Very good against Hollow One, Humans and all those value creatures like Voice and Finks.
Pamplemousse's mainboard looks interesting, and quite a bit different from the usual lists. 21 lands, no Moon, 3 Lilianas are all things I like. Might test their list this coming week.
One thing that grab my attention is that there are no Molten Rain but Fulminator Mage instead. Most decks play Molten Rain but I don't know which one is better in this deck and why. Could someone explain it to me (I'm new to the deck)? I apologize if this has already been discussed and didn't notice it. Thanks for any help.
Basically, fulminator mage as a creature can be recurred using k commands, where molten rain helps you cast bedlam revelers easier. There is no correct answer, you need to decide which is more suitable for you.
One thing that grab my attention is that there are no Molten Rain but Fulminator Mage instead. Most decks play Molten Rain but I don't know which one is better in this deck and why. Could someone explain it to me (I'm new to the deck)? I apologize if this has already been discussed and didn't notice it. Thanks for any help.
Here is my thinking behind it:
They decided to play no Blood Moon. We know Molten Rain works better with Blood Moon because you can destroy their basics and cut them off a color completely. That is not always possible with Fulminator Mage. Molten Rain synergizes better with Bedlam Reveler, Fulminator on the other hand with K-Command. It makes sense to me that in matchups where you really need land destruction you prefer getting back a Fulminator Mage rather than playing Reveler one round earlier.
But I have not played enough with both of them in this deck to claim which one is the better choice. Lately, many lists included Molten Rain, some months ago we saw more Mages, so I don't think there is a correct answer which one is the better option (especially if you don't include Blood Moon in the 75).
The list is interesting. We can't say for sure if those tweaks are made to oppose a certain team or they feel like this build is potent in an open meta. Perhaps they decided to drop blood moons because they were planning to ban tron.
Rabblemaster presents a clock which our deck otherwise lacks. My only concern is his low toughness - it dies to everything our opponents are going to bring against our pyro. All in all, I like Hazoret better in this place.
I'm on fulminator plan against big mana decks. Recurrance is a lot more valuable than making reveler cheaper.
I'd also like to note that Play Design for the Modern Super League also put out a Mardu Pyro list, with a different take than Pamplemousse. Here is their list:
I've been trying 4 manamorphoses recently as well. Maybe 4 is too much but so far it's definitely been relevant in reducing Reveler's cost, which is quite worth it to build around. Gerry Thompson kept mentioning during the Pro Tour that he wished he played more manamorphoses since he only played 1, and in his SCG articles he believes that a version with 4 manamorphoses will be the way to go. The list that I thought of is the same mainboard except with 1 more land over the 2nd LoTV. I still don't know if it's really that good but it's what I will try playing for this week.
I like that but I would play 19 lands alongside 3-4 Manamorphose. Manamorphose reduces the amount of needed lands to run but doesnt help when you need to decide whether a one lander hand is good enough or not.
I like that but I would play 19 lands alongside 3-4 Manamorphose. Manamorphose reduces the amount of needed lands to run but doesnt help when you need to decide whether a one lander hand is good enough or not.
Few notes:
1) Mentor MB is better than I thought. If left unchecked can steal the game.
2) No Blood Moons. The "free win" clause don't happens frequently as I thought.
3) Noxious revival synergizes with Bedlam, Pyro, Mentor and can works as copy of any other card.
4) Nahiri is super strong against boggles, artifacts and other enchantments matter decks. She can deal with opposing leylines, tapped creatures. Loving it so far. Perhaps she can be replaced by Spellskite if your meta is really full of boggles.
Has anyone tried any amount of Bloodghasts in the build? With all the Looting and Brutalities, having additional cards that like being in the yard seem like it would synergize well.
Has anyone tried any amount of Bloodghasts in the build? With all the Looting and Brutalities, having additional cards that like being in the yard seem like it would synergize well.
I am pretty sure you are better off playing Hollow One at this point.
I've been super busy with the end of my master's program so I haven't watched or played much MTG
Have a lot of the jund players decided Jund is just not---good? Dylan Donegan said that Mardu has basically become the new Jund midrange deck of choice.
Few notes:
1) Mentor MB is better than I thought. If left unchecked can steal the game.
2) No Blood Moons. The "free win" clause don't happens frequently as I thought.
3) Noxious revival synergizes with Bedlam, Pyro, Mentor and can works as copy of any other card.
4) Nahiri is super strong against boggles, artifacts and other enchantments matter decks. She can deal with opposing leylines, tapped creatures. Loving it so far. Perhaps she can be replaced by Spellskite if your meta is really full of boggles.
I would suggest playing 20 lands if you only have 2 Manamorphose. I am in general not a fan of 19 lands in Mardu since you likely will have to mull more hands because of it, but if I were to 19 lands I would only do it with 3-4 copies of Manamorphose.
As for Bogles, I would run Engineered Explosives over Spellskite any day. EE doubles up as being great against Humans as well. Spellskite is not a good card right now.
I assume you don't have any Blackcleave Cliffs? I would not run a basic Plains in the deck, its incredibly bad. The only white source I would run is Sacred Foundry.
I've been super busy with the end of my master's program so I haven't watched or played much MTG
Have a lot of the jund players decided Jund is just not---good? Dylan Donegan said that Mardu has basically become the new Jund midrange deck of choice.
Mardu is just more Midrangey than Jund. It's usually better in the midrange mirror but doesn't seem as flexible across the field. I think the main deck has a better game one than most of the other Midrange decks but also has a slightly worse post board than other midrange decks. It's not better or worse. It's just the same flavor slightly tilted a little more in one direction.
This is however, just my opinion. It feels like the same thing as the other Midrange strategies but it has a little more aggression to it and can end the games quicker. It also has the benefit for some of the newer players in modern that can't afford Goyfs but still want to play a Midrange deck.
More removal than the typical stock spell list, with 3 push main and 3 brutality main with the 4th of each in the side. This Modern Challenge looked to have a lot of humans so it makes sense.
0 manamorphoses. It makes sense to be honest, especially since it doesn't match well with Thalia, and again the modern challenge looked to have a lot of humans lists.
Going up to the full 8 discard.
No molten rains in the SB.
What do you all think? It seems tuned for the current meta and looks to be working.
However, it does come at a cost. The 2 mana is relevant. Sometimes ( even saying this is weird) the 2 mana is too slow to react to their play.
Personally, I think you need to pick and chose your hate card wisely. This is one of those times. these spells all come at a cost. Leyline has to be in your opener for it to be relevant most of the time and doesn't add to the count, Spell bomb is 1-2 mana and can cantrip but doesn't add to the count, and charm is 2 mana and adds to the count but could be too slow.
I am very interested looking at Team Pamplemousse's Pyromancer list:
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
2 Sacred Foundry
3 Mountain
2 Swamp
Creatures [8]
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
2 Terminate
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
3 Fulminator Mage
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Collective Brutality
1 Magma Spray
1 Hazore the Fervent
1 Wear // Tear
Some bullet points about that list compared to my version:
Overall very streamlined list and interesting.
I did actually try them last night, but have decided that i would rather use those slots on more generically useful answers.
Pamplemousse's mainboard looks interesting, and quite a bit different from the usual lists. 21 lands, no Moon, 3 Lilianas are all things I like. Might test their list this coming week.
Basically, fulminator mage as a creature can be recurred using k commands, where molten rain helps you cast bedlam revelers easier. There is no correct answer, you need to decide which is more suitable for you.
Here is my thinking behind it:
They decided to play no Blood Moon. We know Molten Rain works better with Blood Moon because you can destroy their basics and cut them off a color completely. That is not always possible with Fulminator Mage. Molten Rain synergizes better with Bedlam Reveler, Fulminator on the other hand with K-Command. It makes sense to me that in matchups where you really need land destruction you prefer getting back a Fulminator Mage rather than playing Reveler one round earlier.
But I have not played enough with both of them in this deck to claim which one is the better choice. Lately, many lists included Molten Rain, some months ago we saw more Mages, so I don't think there is a correct answer which one is the better option (especially if you don't include Blood Moon in the 75).
Rabblemaster presents a clock which our deck otherwise lacks. My only concern is his low toughness - it dies to everything our opponents are going to bring against our pyro. All in all, I like Hazoret better in this place.
I'm on fulminator plan against big mana decks. Recurrance is a lot more valuable than making reveler cheaper.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (32)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Collective Brutality
4 Manamorphose
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Marsh Flats
2 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
1 Swamp
1 Inspiring Vantage
1 Collective Brutality
1 Blood Moon
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Grafdigger's Cage
2 Grim Lavamancer
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Wear // Tear
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
I've been trying 4 manamorphoses recently as well. Maybe 4 is too much but so far it's definitely been relevant in reducing Reveler's cost, which is quite worth it to build around. Gerry Thompson kept mentioning during the Pro Tour that he wished he played more manamorphoses since he only played 1, and in his SCG articles he believes that a version with 4 manamorphoses will be the way to go. The list that I thought of is the same mainboard except with 1 more land over the 2nd LoTV. I still don't know if it's really that good but it's what I will try playing for this week.
Yeah I agree with the 19 lands. Here is the list I'm going try at Modern tonight at an LGS and probably on Thursday:
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Liliana of the Veil
Spells (32)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Collective Brutality
4 Manamorphose
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
1 Wooded Foothills
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
3 Molten Rain
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Collective Brutality
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Hazoret, the Fervent
Just sharing my recent deck list. I'm feeling much more comfortable with this 60 (SB is a working progress still).
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Swamp
3 Blood Crypt
4 Marsh Flats
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Mountain
1 Arid Mesa
1 Plains
//Spells (31)
3 Fatal Push
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dreadbore
2 Terminate
3 Kolaghan's Command
2 Manamorphose
3 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
1 Noxious Revival
4 Bedlam Reveler
4 Young Pyromancer
1 Monastery Mentor
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Wear // Tear
3 Molten Rain
3 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Anger of the Gods
Few notes:
1) Mentor MB is better than I thought. If left unchecked can steal the game.
2) No Blood Moons. The "free win" clause don't happens frequently as I thought.
3) Noxious revival synergizes with Bedlam, Pyro, Mentor and can works as copy of any other card.
4) Nahiri is super strong against boggles, artifacts and other enchantments matter decks. She can deal with opposing leylines, tapped creatures. Loving it so far. Perhaps she can be replaced by Spellskite if your meta is really full of boggles.
I am pretty sure you are better off playing Hollow One at this point.
Have a lot of the jund players decided Jund is just not---good? Dylan Donegan said that Mardu has basically become the new Jund midrange deck of choice.
I would suggest playing 20 lands if you only have 2 Manamorphose. I am in general not a fan of 19 lands in Mardu since you likely will have to mull more hands because of it, but if I were to 19 lands I would only do it with 3-4 copies of Manamorphose.
As for Bogles, I would run Engineered Explosives over Spellskite any day. EE doubles up as being great against Humans as well. Spellskite is not a good card right now.
I assume you don't have any Blackcleave Cliffs? I would not run a basic Plains in the deck, its incredibly bad. The only white source I would run is Sacred Foundry.
Mardu is just more Midrangey than Jund. It's usually better in the midrange mirror but doesn't seem as flexible across the field. I think the main deck has a better game one than most of the other Midrange decks but also has a slightly worse post board than other midrange decks. It's not better or worse. It's just the same flavor slightly tilted a little more in one direction.
This is however, just my opinion. It feels like the same thing as the other Midrange strategies but it has a little more aggression to it and can end the games quicker. It also has the benefit for some of the newer players in modern that can't afford Goyfs but still want to play a Midrange deck.
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
Planeswalkers (1)
1 Nahiri, the Harbinger
Spells (31)
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Thoughtseize
4 Faithless Looting
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
3 Collective Brutality
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lingering Souls
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Godless Shrine
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
1 Fatal Push
2 Crackling Doom
1 Collective Brutality
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Worship
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Goblin Rabblemaster
Some things that stand out
What do you all think? It seems tuned for the current meta and looks to be working.
Worship looks like an interesing anti-humans/hollow one tech