I totally think Mardu (and the 4c variants) are in an extremely good place overall in the meta and I think with time they will probably even out Jund in numbers. IMO Jund is seeing more play than it should right now because people want to play with their new toys and it's been a while since this many people were happy to play Jund. As someone who played loads of Jund pre-BBE unban it's ironically just the opposite for me. The Jund list has very little wiggle-room anymore and I honestly feel the power level in Mardu is higher. The biggest change IMO that BBE put the final nail in the coffin for is Abzan. If you want to play a Lingering Soul midrange deck, Mardu Pyro is where you want to be.
Alright guys. Unfortunately WordPress for my website is being super funky this week and not letting me upload my Tournament report. So here is the publish of the google doc instead. Normally I'd post the entire report here but it's like 10 pages so I figured a link would be best. Had a fantastic GP Phoenix on the whole and I hope you guys enjoy the report.
Hey, I got a pretty simple question since I've never had a chance to play this deck. I'm planning on taking the deck to my LGS for FMN. However, I got a question about the manabase. I have nearly all the cards needed for an average manabase (including the Blackcleave Cliffs) according to MTGGoldfish. However, I'm missing 2 Marsh Flats for the full playset which would make the manabase properly average.
So, In your peoples opinion, What would be better for the deck, Running Two Arid Mesas (to keep the fetches on colour and allow me to fetch white) or should I run two polluted deltas (To get the Black)?
Arid Mesas are probably where you want to be, the deck is more red than it is black. I currently run 4x Mire, 2x Mesa, 2x Marsh and I rarely have a problem getting the colors/basics I need.
I guess you only need black basics for bloodmoon and thus, Marshflats are better imo. I had some situations where I wanted to play bloodmoon but couldnt fetch for a swamp with my arid mesa, so I changed them to Marshflats.
If the group would kindly help me out, what's preference on LOTV vs Chandra vs Nahiri?? I can't seem to decide between Chandra and LOTV but I'm leaning towards Chandra. Also, any opinions on GP phoenix'a version?
This is all preference. I think Liliana has a bigger impact and the 3 mana is relevant.
Chandra is sweet but I don't think she's good enough. Just my preference though. Chandra probably helps out a lot more in the GW company match ups but I still think Last Hope is where you wanna be in those anyways instead of LotV or Chandra.
Another FNM, another 0-4 with Mardu. I'm running well.
My first two matchups were bad - Tron and Bogles. I was close to winning game 3 versus Tron but he used a K-Return to wipe out two Goblin Rabblemasters. I might not have needed to throw the second one out since the first was a quick clock any way, but I knew he had a Wurmcoil and that he'd get to six lands soon, so I figured it was the +EV play to land the second and race; he had the K-Return, landed a Wurmcoil and after a few more turns that was that.
Bogles... I never had a chance. Even when I brought in Engineered Explosives (which I saw two of) he was eventually just able to suit up a Bogle and hit me with it enough to kill me. Slightly tilted because before the even I went "man, these Crackling Dooms in my board are so low utility, I'll cut them for some other stuff..."
Round 3 was versus an interesting UR Control deck built around Niv-Mizzet. Chasm Skulkers were a beating here - if I couldn't answer them the turn they dropped, they were killing me, and she had enough counter magic and card draw that I couldn't get through it. Hazoret kept me alive by blocking for days in game 1.
Round 4 was Big Naya Zoo. Game one I locked her out under a Blood Moon but she cast 3 Bloodbraids in 3 turns, which was enough to lock me out. Wasn't winning that. Won game two due to Lingering Souls and Hazzy. Game 3 was a little rough - I had a lot of disruption, but not very many threats, and when she was able to use a Dromoka's Command to kill my single Bedlam Reveler, I was locked out of the game.
I still love the deck, but I'm having some bad beats at the moment. It probably says something about my lack of play skill, though.
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Well, I can saw a woman in two, but you won't wanna look in the box when I'm through.
How do you guys beat RG eldrazi? TKS, Smasher and BBelf are so much value
I beat it twice in Phoenix. Part of it is due to it being a midrange deck and my list was already tinkered to hedge slightly harder for those matchups (with BBE as additional clock/threat and value engine). The main thing I can say about that matchup is throw a million tokens under the bus repeatedly. They only have 4 bolts with which to kill Peezy. I sideboard like so (out: 3x Inquisition of Kozilek, 2x Collective Brutality. In: 3x Molten Rain, 2x Surgical Extraction). Molten Rain is mainly in there for reach and because there are not enough other good cards to bring in. Especially on the play though, disrupting their mana can really set them back. This is the only fair matchup where I bring in Surgicals. You really really really want to hit their Reality Smashers.
Be careful of Obligators taking things like Reveler and Hazoret but you aren't very worried about the obligator itself. Survive the early turns and then just gum up the ground with as many tokens as possible. Hazoret is insane in this matchup because it clocks them, blocks Smashers at worst, gives you reach and is impossible for them to get off the board. Pyromancers tend to multiply once the first one goes unanswered and then you start trading Bolts/souls/kommands for TKS and Reality Smashers.
Thank you I really appreciate the feedback. I gave Chandra plenty of repetitions going blood moon heavy and while her modes are relevant LOTV hasn't been all around the best unless plains aren't a splash. In that case, it's hard to argue with nahiri having tempo, removal and even her ultimate. Thank you again.
Another topic, Gerry T put out an article today with his current list absent of blood moon. As he states it's meta/anticipation heavy period on slots but in terms of the deck performing the way it did in Toronto, I think is the reasoning for removing them. I've tested 10 leagues today with his list(granted online is a grain of salt activity) and I have to say I think at the moment it's appropriate. I posted the link below, it's basically the same but I do like the addition of crumble to dust versus molten/stone.
Quick tally, if Stoneforge Mystic were unbanned tommorrow, would she fit in the current pyro-reveler build? If so, what comes out, do you put swords alongside batterskull, and does the manabase become clunkier? Does she replace pyro or slot alongside? Is she a minimum 4 of or can 3 work?
Quick tally, if Stoneforge Mystic were unbanned tommorrow, would she fit in the current pyro-reveler build? If so, what comes out, do you put swords alongside batterskull, and does the manabase become clunkier? Does she replace pyro or slot alongside? Is she a minimum 4 of or can 3 work?
Just some thought exercises.
Stoneforge would be an auto 4-of alongisde 1 Batterskull and 1-2 Swords. So mayb 6-7 slots for the deck. It would probably warp the deck around since Looting and the Pyromancer engine would get worse because of that. And I am not sure we would run that engine in that case then.
Quick tally, if Stoneforge Mystic were unbanned tommorrow, would she fit in the current pyro-reveler build? If so, what comes out, do you put swords alongside batterskull, and does the manabase become clunkier? Does she replace pyro or slot alongside? Is she a minimum 4 of or can 3 work?
Just some thought exercises.
Stoneforge would be an auto 4-of alongisde 1 Batterskull and 1-2 Swords. So mayb 6-7 slots for the deck. It would probably warp the deck around since Looting and the Pyromancer engine would get worse because of that. And I am not sure we would run that engine in that case then.
I actually disagree. I think that engine would remain because the tokens make amazing sword carriers and SFM replaces itself with a card in hand. Also I feel like one of the swords we'd be using is Sword of Light and Shadow which would let us recur our other creature threats like Reveler and Peezies. We'd probably cut out Blood Moon though and add more white in general to the deck.
The deck ran pretty hot all day up until the top 8. The room was largely fair midrange and aggressive decks and I think there was only 1 ETron and 1 BG Tron.
Anyways, here's a short write up:
Round 1(0-0) - RW Prison (2-0)
Game 1: Opponent won the die roll and stuck a chalice on 1 via spirit guide on my turn zero. I stick a turn 2 Pyromancer and dump out my hand of one drops to get the tokens and run him over.
Game 2: I pick apart his hand and Bloodmoon him (the irony) then cast a Reveler. He hits reveler with Cast Out which I Wear//Tear at the end of his turn to draw three cards and proceed to beat him down.
Round 2 (1-0) - Jeskai Control (2-0)
Game 1: Very grindy game, but I ended up chaining two Revelers to turn the corner.
Game 2: I turn 1 Inquisition and see a hand full of sweepers and Keranos. Sweet. I manage to take control of the game and hit his lands with fulminator to keep him of Keranos. When he finally lands the Keranos, he flips land after land to its trigger and I get there with tokens that he isn't able to remove.
Round 3 (2-0) - Bogles (1-2)
Game 1: He gets the turn zero Leyline and runs me over in about 3 turns.
Game 2: I manage to beat him down with Hazoret.
Game 3: He hits Leyline and Rest In Peace and beats me down before I can get anything online. This was the nightmare scenario where I am low on lands and can't manage to cast the Reveler in my hand because I need to keep flashing back Lingering Souls thus reducing the size of my yard so I just never get operational.
Round 4 (2-1) - Jund (2-0)
I don't remember all the details of this match but it wasn't close. Game one I deployed at least two full cards worth of Lingering Souls and game two I had Hazoret backed up by tokens to dodge a Liliana edict.
Round 5 (3-1) - Jund (2-0)
Game 1: The grind continues! In this game we trade resources and he deploys a turn 4 Bloodbraid that cascades into Liliana the Last Hope which proceeds to eat my Pyro. I counter with a bolt to the Bloodbraid on my turn followed by a hasty Hazoret to kill Lilana, and the game was all downhill for my opponent from there.
Game 2: My opponent didn't see a Bloodmoon game 1, so I leave them in. On a mull to 6 draw the nut hand of Swamp x2, fetch land, Bloodmoon, Looting, Lingering Souls. I stick the turn 3 Bloodmoon after my opponent has fetched and shocked aggressively for 3 lands and also has a Twilight Mire. He proceeds to not draw anything of note and I eventually hit a Reveler and beat him down. He doesn't offer me the hand shake and half throws his deck while he's de-sideboarding. Yikes.
I finish the swiss at 4-1 and place into the top 8 at 6th. The top 8 was Humans, Humans, BW Tokens/Planeswalkers, Jund, Blue Moon, Counters Company, Bogles, and myself.
Top 8 - Jund (1-2)
Game 1: I mull to five and keep a 1 lander with Souls, Souls, Looting, and something else. We trade resources but I pull ahead as he can't answer all the tokens.
Game 2: My opponent hits turn 4 Bloodbraid into Goyf and turn 5 Bloodbraid into Liliana. I didn't stand a chance against that pressure.
Game 3: My opponent keeps 7 and I'm forced to mull to 5 with a single land, a looting, a Reveler, a Pyromancer, and a bolt. I don't hit my second land until turn 4 and draw Revelers on turns 5 & 6, truly heartbreaking.
I chose the deck because I knew it crushed midrange matchups and I expected a lot of Jund. I had considered running Exatraz's list with BBE but I wasn't experienced enough with the build to feel confident in bringing it to an open meta. Overall the deck ran really well and I was happy with my sideboard. If I could do it again I would probably cut a Bloodmoon for a Lilana of the Veil main and cut the side Veil for a Last Hope.
Grats on the performance man! Deck still looks great! I think there personally is really no "wrong way" to go and that pretty much most iterations of this deck all come down to personal preference and metagame decisions. My list was tuned for GP Phx and I still have to see how my meta adjusts for the next big event. More big mana seems to be creeping back which means Blood Moons might want to come back in (which also makes me drop the green and BBE's). I've also seen an uptick in RG Eldrazi which I'd much rather out value them than Blood Moon them.
Grats on the performance man! Deck still looks great! I think there personally is really no "wrong way" to go and that pretty much most iterations of this deck all come down to personal preference and metagame decisions. My list was tuned for GP Phx and I still have to see how my meta adjusts for the next big event. More big mana seems to be creeping back which means Blood Moons might want to come back in (which also makes me drop the green and BBE's). I've also seen an uptick in RG Eldrazi which I'd much rather out value them than Blood Moon them.
Thank you! I'm inclined to agree with you about big mana creeping back, and Mono G tron still seems to be holding a large metagame share even if I'm not seeing it in paper. I'll probably bring the Mardu version of the deck to GP Sydney in April as opposed to the Bloodbraid version solely for the presence of Blood Moon.
On a related note, Gerry T posted that list last week that had Crumble to Dust as opposed to Fulminators or Molten Rain. I like how hard of an answer it is, but it still gives the Tron player a turn to deploy a huge threat if we get it on our turn 4. What do y'all think about this tech?
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Jund
Abzan
Mardu Pyromancer
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Arid Mesas are probably where you want to be, the deck is more red than it is black. I currently run 4x Mire, 2x Mesa, 2x Marsh and I rarely have a problem getting the colors/basics I need.
If the group would kindly help me out, what's preference on LOTV vs Chandra vs Nahiri?? I can't seem to decide between Chandra and LOTV but I'm leaning towards Chandra. Also, any opinions on GP phoenix'a version?
Thank you amigos.
Chandra is sweet but I don't think she's good enough. Just my preference though. Chandra probably helps out a lot more in the GW company match ups but I still think Last Hope is where you wanna be in those anyways instead of LotV or Chandra.
My first two matchups were bad - Tron and Bogles. I was close to winning game 3 versus Tron but he used a K-Return to wipe out two Goblin Rabblemasters. I might not have needed to throw the second one out since the first was a quick clock any way, but I knew he had a Wurmcoil and that he'd get to six lands soon, so I figured it was the +EV play to land the second and race; he had the K-Return, landed a Wurmcoil and after a few more turns that was that.
Bogles... I never had a chance. Even when I brought in Engineered Explosives (which I saw two of) he was eventually just able to suit up a Bogle and hit me with it enough to kill me. Slightly tilted because before the even I went "man, these Crackling Dooms in my board are so low utility, I'll cut them for some other stuff..."
Round 3 was versus an interesting UR Control deck built around Niv-Mizzet. Chasm Skulkers were a beating here - if I couldn't answer them the turn they dropped, they were killing me, and she had enough counter magic and card draw that I couldn't get through it. Hazoret kept me alive by blocking for days in game 1.
Round 4 was Big Naya Zoo. Game one I locked her out under a Blood Moon but she cast 3 Bloodbraids in 3 turns, which was enough to lock me out. Wasn't winning that. Won game two due to Lingering Souls and Hazzy. Game 3 was a little rough - I had a lot of disruption, but not very many threats, and when she was able to use a Dromoka's Command to kill my single Bedlam Reveler, I was locked out of the game.
I still love the deck, but I'm having some bad beats at the moment. It probably says something about my lack of play skill, though.
I beat it twice in Phoenix. Part of it is due to it being a midrange deck and my list was already tinkered to hedge slightly harder for those matchups (with BBE as additional clock/threat and value engine). The main thing I can say about that matchup is throw a million tokens under the bus repeatedly. They only have 4 bolts with which to kill Peezy. I sideboard like so (out: 3x Inquisition of Kozilek, 2x Collective Brutality. In: 3x Molten Rain, 2x Surgical Extraction). Molten Rain is mainly in there for reach and because there are not enough other good cards to bring in. Especially on the play though, disrupting their mana can really set them back. This is the only fair matchup where I bring in Surgicals. You really really really want to hit their Reality Smashers.
Be careful of Obligators taking things like Reveler and Hazoret but you aren't very worried about the obligator itself. Survive the early turns and then just gum up the ground with as many tokens as possible. Hazoret is insane in this matchup because it clocks them, blocks Smashers at worst, gives you reach and is impossible for them to get off the board. Pyromancers tend to multiply once the first one goes unanswered and then you start trading Bolts/souls/kommands for TKS and Reality Smashers.
http://www.starcitygames.com/article/36823_Redwindling-Phoenix.html
Land (19)
2x Arid Mesa
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Marsh Flats
3x Mountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Swamp
Planeswalker (2)
2x Liliana of the Veil
Sorcery (19)
2x Collective Brutality
2x Dreadbore
4x Faithless Looting
4x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Lingering Souls
3x Thoughtseize
Instant (12)
2x Fatal Push
3x Kolaghan's Command
4x Lightning Bolt
3x Manamorphose
Creature (8)
4x Bedlam Reveler
4x Young Pyromancer
Sideboard (15)
2x Collective Brutality
3x Crumble to Dust
2x Engineered Explosives
2x Hazoret the Fervent
2x Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2x Nihil Spellbomb
2x Wear / Tear
Just some thought exercises.
Stoneforge would be an auto 4-of alongisde 1 Batterskull and 1-2 Swords. So mayb 6-7 slots for the deck. It would probably warp the deck around since Looting and the Pyromancer engine would get worse because of that. And I am not sure we would run that engine in that case then.
I actually disagree. I think that engine would remain because the tokens make amazing sword carriers and SFM replaces itself with a card in hand. Also I feel like one of the swords we'd be using is Sword of Light and Shadow which would let us recur our other creature threats like Reveler and Peezies. We'd probably cut out Blood Moon though and add more white in general to the deck.
I managed to top 8 a local ~40 person 1K this last weekend with this list:
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
1 Hazoret the Fervent
Enchantment
2 Blood Moon
Land
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Marsh Flats
1 Arid Mesa
2 Swamp
2 Mountain
1 Manamorphose
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
Sorcery
4 Faithless Looting
3 Thoughtseize
1 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
4 Leyline of the Void
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
2 Collective Brutality
3 Molten Rain
2 Anger of the Gods
The deck ran pretty hot all day up until the top 8. The room was largely fair midrange and aggressive decks and I think there was only 1 ETron and 1 BG Tron.
Anyways, here's a short write up:
Round 1(0-0) - RW Prison (2-0)
Game 1: Opponent won the die roll and stuck a chalice on 1 via spirit guide on my turn zero. I stick a turn 2 Pyromancer and dump out my hand of one drops to get the tokens and run him over.
Game 2: I pick apart his hand and Bloodmoon him (the irony) then cast a Reveler. He hits reveler with Cast Out which I Wear//Tear at the end of his turn to draw three cards and proceed to beat him down.
Round 2 (1-0) - Jeskai Control (2-0)
Game 1: Very grindy game, but I ended up chaining two Revelers to turn the corner.
Game 2: I turn 1 Inquisition and see a hand full of sweepers and Keranos. Sweet. I manage to take control of the game and hit his lands with fulminator to keep him of Keranos. When he finally lands the Keranos, he flips land after land to its trigger and I get there with tokens that he isn't able to remove.
Round 3 (2-0) - Bogles (1-2)
Game 1: He gets the turn zero Leyline and runs me over in about 3 turns.
Game 2: I manage to beat him down with Hazoret.
Game 3: He hits Leyline and Rest In Peace and beats me down before I can get anything online. This was the nightmare scenario where I am low on lands and can't manage to cast the Reveler in my hand because I need to keep flashing back Lingering Souls thus reducing the size of my yard so I just never get operational.
Round 4 (2-1) - Jund (2-0)
I don't remember all the details of this match but it wasn't close. Game one I deployed at least two full cards worth of Lingering Souls and game two I had Hazoret backed up by tokens to dodge a Liliana edict.
Round 5 (3-1) - Jund (2-0)
Game 1: The grind continues! In this game we trade resources and he deploys a turn 4 Bloodbraid that cascades into Liliana the Last Hope which proceeds to eat my Pyro. I counter with a bolt to the Bloodbraid on my turn followed by a hasty Hazoret to kill Lilana, and the game was all downhill for my opponent from there.
Game 2: My opponent didn't see a Bloodmoon game 1, so I leave them in. On a mull to 6 draw the nut hand of Swamp x2, fetch land, Bloodmoon, Looting, Lingering Souls. I stick the turn 3 Bloodmoon after my opponent has fetched and shocked aggressively for 3 lands and also has a Twilight Mire. He proceeds to not draw anything of note and I eventually hit a Reveler and beat him down. He doesn't offer me the hand shake and half throws his deck while he's de-sideboarding. Yikes.
I finish the swiss at 4-1 and place into the top 8 at 6th. The top 8 was Humans, Humans, BW Tokens/Planeswalkers, Jund, Blue Moon, Counters Company, Bogles, and myself.
Top 8 - Jund (1-2)
Game 1: I mull to five and keep a 1 lander with Souls, Souls, Looting, and something else. We trade resources but I pull ahead as he can't answer all the tokens.
Game 2: My opponent hits turn 4 Bloodbraid into Goyf and turn 5 Bloodbraid into Liliana. I didn't stand a chance against that pressure.
Game 3: My opponent keeps 7 and I'm forced to mull to 5 with a single land, a looting, a Reveler, a Pyromancer, and a bolt. I don't hit my second land until turn 4 and draw Revelers on turns 5 & 6, truly heartbreaking.
I chose the deck because I knew it crushed midrange matchups and I expected a lot of Jund. I had considered running Exatraz's list with BBE but I wasn't experienced enough with the build to feel confident in bringing it to an open meta. Overall the deck ran really well and I was happy with my sideboard. If I could do it again I would probably cut a Bloodmoon for a Lilana of the Veil main and cut the side Veil for a Last Hope.
Thank you! I'm inclined to agree with you about big mana creeping back, and Mono G tron still seems to be holding a large metagame share even if I'm not seeing it in paper. I'll probably bring the Mardu version of the deck to GP Sydney in April as opposed to the Bloodbraid version solely for the presence of Blood Moon.
On a related note, Gerry T posted that list last week that had Crumble to Dust as opposed to Fulminators or Molten Rain. I like how hard of an answer it is, but it still gives the Tron player a turn to deploy a huge threat if we get it on our turn 4. What do y'all think about this tech?