I'd like to echo FlyingDelver on the Fulminator plan; Card seems much better because it will usually trade 2-for-1 in our favor. It can also block the odd creature if it has to. Access to Kommand also makes this seem superior, can really let us get into some crazy lines.
Thanks for the tips guy. I never really tested the card actually. Was for a long time on the Leylines plan , which pretty much everybody abandoned (liked them vs Storm and Dredge but those deck disappeared in my meta).
Against Control, just play Fulminator Mage. Its never a dead draw like BM and Molten Rain can be, and Fulminator can get in for dmg. As soon as they point a removal spell at it, sac it and destroy a Colonnade. You can also destroy Azcanta as it flipped.
For the Control matchups, BM cant be an argument for me, since we have access to Fulminator if we want.
Fulminator is great vs Colonnade Control decks, wheras BM and Molten Rain are bad or only ok. Fulminator presents a threat and likely trades 2 for 1.
Yeah I think Lilis are great vs Jund and Control variants, so definitely going to play those.
No not liking Molten, are bad topdecks and not impactful enough for Jund/Control. Think Fulminatzor is better to grind with.
Only aspect would be to hit basics, or to help with Reveler. Not sure that warrants the card more than Fulminator for me.
Since you're cutting Blood Moon, I feel that Fulminator Mage is better (Moon + Molten a basic can be brutal).
I'm willing to give the Fulminators a go, with 3 to 4 Manamorphose (never tried both card in the deck).
FlyingDelver : Do you have problem casting Bedlam vs Jeskai ? I feel that with that decklist you side in a lot of non sorcery/instant cards... At the same time, the games are often really long so no rush to cast them I guess.
Yes exactly, there is basically no rush, since we don't tempo them out, we outvalue them. Things get tricky with Jace/Azcanta ofc, they can grind really good as well. But I am really not a fan of going all in and get blown up by a single sweeper.
Liliana usually is the card that gets them low onresources and we can dumb useless removal into the yard through that as well, which helps to cast bedlam.
Best cards against Control are: Souls, Reveler, LoTV, Fulminator, discard and KCommand to recur. Hazoret is also decent.
I played BBE Jund on my last 3 tournaments and got destroyed on every one of them. Went 1-4, 1-2-1 and 2-3. So i decided to jump back to Mardu, since the last time i played it, i had great results.
I think its a great deck atm. This is the way i look at it:
VS control: we got more discard than Jund. We got souls and tons of tokens. On top of that, Reveler.
VS midrange: we got tokens for days and more removal for goyfs, bobs what have you. I play moonless list with 4 pushes too. I missed pushes so much in jund.
VS combo: we got more discard.
VS tron: same ***** as midrange unless you play blood moons.
VS creature decks: we got more removal and chumps for days.
Any way i look at it, i see this deck outperforming Jund in my humble mind.
Im looking forward to what FlyingDelver has to say about that though
I watched this guy play the list and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. He's a little lighter on removal than we normally are, but with Traverse in the deck we kind of get to do what Death's Shadow does and Dump our hand and play discard, then jam a fatty. Luckily for us, Our fatty draws us three cards. I dont know enough about the list (Or about Pyromancer in general, yet) to judge anything, but seeing it in person, and on paper, the list looks very, very spicy.
I played BBE Jund on my last 3 tournaments and got destroyed on every one of them. Went 1-4, 1-2-1 and 2-3. So i decided to jump back to Mardu, since the last time i played it, i had great results.
I think its a great deck atm. This is the way i look at it:
VS control: we got more discard than Jund. We got souls and tons of tokens. On top of that, Reveler.
VS midrange: we got tokens for days and more removal for goyfs, bobs what have you. I play moonless list with 4 pushes too. I missed pushes so much in jund.
VS combo: we got more discard.
VS tron: same ***** as midrange unless you play blood moons.
VS creature decks: we got more removal and chumps for days.
Any way i look at it, i see this deck outperforming Jund in my humble mind.
Im looking forward to what FlyingDelver has to say about that though
I basically agree with that. Mardu is great vs creature based matchups, no question. Mardu is also very good vs Control due to the CA. Jund has a big advantage in being able to run Lilis in more copies though, which are excellent as well. But Mardu can certainly compete. Same goes for midrange, LoTV, Reveler, Souls are just fantastic there.
One big disadvantage Mardu has is imo the susceptibility to GY hate as well as -1/-1 effects. It can get pretty weak due to that. Therefore Mardu is more or less good depending on the amount of GY hate there is and on the amount of sweeper there is.
Against Combo or Big Mana, Jund has usually better matchups due to the faster clock, which is lacking in Mardu. Thats one disadvantage as well. I would not say that this matter for Valakut, but could matter for Tron and combo decks in general.
It is also resilient to BM and probably FoR also. I definitely think Mardu is a good deck atm.
I have been playing Mardu Pyro for a couple of months and am currently testing a few things. Just wanted to hear if anyone has already done it or has some feedback.
1. Cutting the white package for field of ruin.
I am trialing 3 FoR atm on magic online and it really improves the Tron matchup. To replace the lingering souls I am using goblin rabblemaster and tentatively some madness cards.
I know LS is such a good card but so is FoR. This gives us a better G1 against Tron, also means that we don’t need to use our fatal pushes to deal with creature lands (celestial colonnade/raging ravine) and we can remove other problem lands that our main deck removal can’t touch.
Unfortunately it can be a bit of a nonbo with Blood Moon as it forces the opponent to fetch a basic but if we drop our BM first then at least we can tap it for R.
Finally the FoR + GR plan is better against GY hate. If we play against a deck likely to play hate we can trim a BR and we are good to go.
2. Madness cards. Mainly Fiery Temper, big game hunter or possibly Voldaren Pariah (probably too jank).
- While FT is just a conditional lightning bolt we can gain a card by discarding it. It has been a little awkward in testing but usually is ok. It is nice to discard to Bedlam Reveler as it gives you something to spend your mana on if you miss with the draw 3.
- BGH is probably more of a sideboard card but I have had some good hits so far (Thought-knot Seer, Delve creatures, etc). I had a line where I was going to blow out my opponent with K-command targeting myself to discard BGH at instant speed though my opponent conceded before I got to use it.
- VP I haven’t managed to get her out yet but only had a small sample size (running as a 1 of in the Hazoret/Liliana slot). BBB seems doable and you can get her out on T4 with a faithless looting or T5 with BR (full GY) though you probably want to hold her until you can immediately flip her. We often have elemental tokens, souls tokens or goblin tokens so sacrificing 3 creatures is possible and can get rid of a problem creature or clear the board and a 6/5 flying body can end the game quickly.
3. Squee, Goblin Nabob. “Free” card advantage when discarding.
I haven’t put him in a deck yet but have been looking at him for a while. I am worried he will dilute the deck but maybe as a 1 of might be okay. The other problem is that we actually want our instants/sorcerys in the GY so Squee can actually slow down our BR though he also keeps cards in hand so maybe we wouldn’t want to BR early anyway.
Hope this sparks some ideas and discussion. Let me know what you think.
If you're playing madness cards, I'd suggest Bloodhall Priest over Voldaren Pariah. It's easier on the mana and does almost the same thing. I also wouldn't recommend playing Madness cards but if it's the path you want to go down, that's where I'd start.
Why 2 Spellbomb / 1 Surgical split? No more Hazoret main? Why 2 Wear // Tear? I'm in a similar state with the graveyard hate, I'm just not sure what number of those is correct, but I really like spellbomb vs. Jund and surgical vs. other decks. Hopefully going to an IQ on Sunday, so I can represent, but we'll see if that happens.
Why 2 Spellbomb / 1 Surgical split? No more Hazoret main? Why 2 Wear // Tear? I'm in a similar state with the graveyard hate, I'm just not sure what number of those is correct, but I really like spellbomb vs. Jund and surgical vs. other decks. Hopefully going to an IQ on Sunday, so I can represent, but we'll see if that happens.
Why do you ''really like'' Spellbomb vs Jund ?
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How is your sideboard build?
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Collective Brutality
2 Wear // Tear
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Engineered Explosives
And the mainboard?
Heavy on the lili plan. You dislike the Molten Rain?
This is my deck atm:
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
Land
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Marsh Flats
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
Instant
2 Manamorphose
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Fatal Push
1 Terminate
2 Dreadbore
4 Faithless Looting
2 Collective Brutality
3 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
Planeswalker
1 Liliana of the Veil
3 Fulminator Mage
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Wear // Tear
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Collective Brutality
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
2 Liliana of the Veil
Yeah I think Lilis are great vs Jund and Control variants, so definitely going to play those.
No not liking Molten, are bad topdecks and not impactful enough for Jund/Control. Think Fulminatzor is better to grind with.
Only aspect would be to hit basics, or to help with Reveler. Not sure that warrants the card more than Fulminator for me.
Since you're cutting Blood Moon, I feel that Fulminator Mage is better (Moon + Molten a basic can be brutal).
I'm willing to give the Fulminators a go, with 3 to 4 Manamorphose (never tried both card in the deck).
FlyingDelver : Do you have problem casting Bedlam vs Jeskai ? I feel that with that decklist you side in a lot of non sorcery/instant cards... At the same time, the games are often really long so no rush to cast them I guess.
Liliana usually is the card that gets them low onresources and we can dumb useless removal into the yard through that as well, which helps to cast bedlam.
Best cards against Control are: Souls, Reveler, LoTV, Fulminator, discard and KCommand to recur. Hazoret is also decent.
I think its a great deck atm. This is the way i look at it:
VS control: we got more discard than Jund. We got souls and tons of tokens. On top of that, Reveler.
VS midrange: we got tokens for days and more removal for goyfs, bobs what have you. I play moonless list with 4 pushes too. I missed pushes so much in jund.
VS combo: we got more discard.
VS tron: same ***** as midrange unless you play blood moons.
VS creature decks: we got more removal and chumps for days.
Any way i look at it, i see this deck outperforming Jund in my humble mind.
Im looking forward to what FlyingDelver has to say about that though
I watched this guy play the list and I have to say, I'm pretty impressed. He's a little lighter on removal than we normally are, but with Traverse in the deck we kind of get to do what Death's Shadow does and Dump our hand and play discard, then jam a fatty. Luckily for us, Our fatty draws us three cards. I dont know enough about the list (Or about Pyromancer in general, yet) to judge anything, but seeing it in person, and on paper, the list looks very, very spicy.
I basically agree with that. Mardu is great vs creature based matchups, no question. Mardu is also very good vs Control due to the CA. Jund has a big advantage in being able to run Lilis in more copies though, which are excellent as well. But Mardu can certainly compete. Same goes for midrange, LoTV, Reveler, Souls are just fantastic there.
One big disadvantage Mardu has is imo the susceptibility to GY hate as well as -1/-1 effects. It can get pretty weak due to that. Therefore Mardu is more or less good depending on the amount of GY hate there is and on the amount of sweeper there is.
Against Combo or Big Mana, Jund has usually better matchups due to the faster clock, which is lacking in Mardu. Thats one disadvantage as well. I would not say that this matter for Valakut, but could matter for Tron and combo decks in general.
It is also resilient to BM and probably FoR also. I definitely think Mardu is a good deck atm.
4 Bloodstained Mire
3 Marsh Flats
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
3 Mountain
Creatures [8]
4 Young Pyromancer
4 Bedlam Reveler
Noncreature Spells [33]
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
2 Collective Brutality
2 Dreadbore
1 Terminate
3 Manamorphose
2 Fatal Push
3 Kolaghan's Command
1 Liliana of the Veil
4 Lingering Souls
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Liliana of the Veil
1 Liliana, the Last Hope
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Surgical Extraction
2 Engineered Explosives
2 Wear // Tear
1 Collective Brutality
Just trying it out, havent got any impressions so far. I let you know as soon as I have played a few games.
I have been playing Mardu Pyro for a couple of months and am currently testing a few things. Just wanted to hear if anyone has already done it or has some feedback.
1. Cutting the white package for field of ruin.
I am trialing 3 FoR atm on magic online and it really improves the Tron matchup. To replace the lingering souls I am using goblin rabblemaster and tentatively some madness cards.
I know LS is such a good card but so is FoR. This gives us a better G1 against Tron, also means that we don’t need to use our fatal pushes to deal with creature lands (celestial colonnade/raging ravine) and we can remove other problem lands that our main deck removal can’t touch.
Unfortunately it can be a bit of a nonbo with Blood Moon as it forces the opponent to fetch a basic but if we drop our BM first then at least we can tap it for R.
Finally the FoR + GR plan is better against GY hate. If we play against a deck likely to play hate we can trim a BR and we are good to go.
2. Madness cards. Mainly Fiery Temper, big game hunter or possibly Voldaren Pariah (probably too jank).
- While FT is just a conditional lightning bolt we can gain a card by discarding it. It has been a little awkward in testing but usually is ok. It is nice to discard to Bedlam Reveler as it gives you something to spend your mana on if you miss with the draw 3.
- BGH is probably more of a sideboard card but I have had some good hits so far (Thought-knot Seer, Delve creatures, etc). I had a line where I was going to blow out my opponent with K-command targeting myself to discard BGH at instant speed though my opponent conceded before I got to use it.
- VP I haven’t managed to get her out yet but only had a small sample size (running as a 1 of in the Hazoret/Liliana slot). BBB seems doable and you can get her out on T4 with a faithless looting or T5 with BR (full GY) though you probably want to hold her until you can immediately flip her. We often have elemental tokens, souls tokens or goblin tokens so sacrificing 3 creatures is possible and can get rid of a problem creature or clear the board and a 6/5 flying body can end the game quickly.
3. Squee, Goblin Nabob. “Free” card advantage when discarding.
I haven’t put him in a deck yet but have been looking at him for a while. I am worried he will dilute the deck but maybe as a 1 of might be okay. The other problem is that we actually want our instants/sorcerys in the GY so Squee can actually slow down our BR though he also keeps cards in hand so maybe we wouldn’t want to BR early anyway.
Hope this sparks some ideas and discussion. Let me know what you think.
Why 2 Spellbomb / 1 Surgical split? No more Hazoret main? Why 2 Wear // Tear? I'm in a similar state with the graveyard hate, I'm just not sure what number of those is correct, but I really like spellbomb vs. Jund and surgical vs. other decks. Hopefully going to an IQ on Sunday, so I can represent, but we'll see if that happens.
Why do you ''really like'' Spellbomb vs Jund ?