Generally speaking, if you're playing mardu midrange, it's because you like killing a few creatures. Well, a lot of creatures. Usually all the creatures.
Upsides are:
Lingering Souls.
an unrivaled creature removal selection,
huge flexibility to playstyle and card choices (Lily and nahiri into emrakul, or Bob, young pyro and pack rat with Kommand back up, souls and bitterblossom with anthems, go full prowess jank with kiln fiend, swiftspear and reveler, or some hybrid of any of these)
Excellent sideboard options. No, really. Sideboard GOLD is readily available for just about every deck, really hard to choose just 15.
Also, Lingering Souls. I may have mentioned this.
Downsides:
No access to counter magic (no, mana tithe doesn't count, kids. Though guttural response is fun to troll the pros with)
Your gameplan is mostly played at sorcery speed.
Depending on build, hard to pressure dedicated creatureless combo before they go off. Discard and Lily definitely help, but if you're not clocking them they WILL find a way. Also, see lack of counterspells above.
If you're not running a playset of helix and a brutality or 2, you're really soft to burn. Even if you are running them, you simply can't beat burns but draw, see lack of pressure above.
Extreme softness to true Tron and Valakut, though that's basically true for every midrange or control deck. E Tron is a lot easier to deal with.
All in all, Mardu' s best quality is how tailorable it is to what you want to do as a player. If you can part with your serum visions and cryptics, I think you'll have a lift a fun, mostly killing anything that moves. Definitely try it out on cockatrice before actually trading tho, this is a far cry from Jeskai.
Really interested in playing this deck and considering trading my Jeskai stuff on MTGO for it. Can anyone give me some good reasons why or why not to? Also some sideboard / general game plan advice. I've played against it a few times with UW and found RIP was my best card to more or less stop reveler from being played in a reasonable time, but it doesn't seem like GY hate is really a huge concern. This deck seems like it's crushing a lot of the top decks though and I want to try something a little different, it's between this and Blue Moon.
Depending on build, hard to pressure dedicated creatureless combo before they go off. Discard and Lily definitely help, but if you're not clocking them they WILL find a way. Also, see lack of counterspells above.
If you're not running a playset of helix and a brutality or 2, you're really soft to burn. Even if you are running them, you simply can't beat burns but draw, see lack of pressure above.
Extreme softness to true Tron and Valakut, though that's basically true for every midrange or control deck. E Tron is a lot easier to deal with.
Twanicus' response is accurate, but I wanted to highlight this part in particular. As someone who's played a bit of Jeskai, you'll notice those differences right away. Since you've mentioned it, I'm going to assume it's the Reveler version you're considering. Some additional thoughts with that version in mind:
There's a core that has put up results, especially evidenced by Selfeisek's numbers. Some of that likely comes from the amount s/he's grinding though.
It's hard to hate out -- like you mention, RIP is about the worst you'll face and it isn't particularly devastating.
Most of the cards in the deck are less powerful in a vacuum than a lot of format staples. That's not to downplay the deck, but it does reflect the play style. It also means it's cheaper to buy.
In a nutshell, think of Mardu Reveler as a go-wide Jund with extra reach.
If you have a list you're considering, I can sketch out what the game plan roughly looks like for common opponents. Specific card choices will vary depending on what you run (my sideboard has diverged a lot from Selfeisek's), but I think the strategy behind what you're trying to do will stay pretty similar.
So Darkest_before_down, here I am after a few days of testing with your build, and here is how it went for me. I won't go game by game 'cause I played too many, I'll just do a little summary.
* The deck performed decently against creature based decks. I say "decently" and not "great" 'cause I actually lost, again, some matches against go wide strategies such as Merfolks, Humans and the new 5c Spirits with Strangleroot Geist (what a pain to deal with that card!). Overall I have won about 60% of games against creature based decks, defeating Elves, Affinity, Humans, Death and Taxes but I also lost to Humans a couple times, to Merfolks, 5c Spirits and to Eldrazi & Taxes. My conclusion is that creature based decks are generally speaking good MUs, but not great, things can go wrong pretty easily. We suffer resilient creatures such as creatures with persist or things like Selfless Spirit and sometimes our removal just lines up badly against what our opponent is doing. I felt the need for sweepers and I also felt the tokens plan is a trap against these types of decks (you think you're doing well making a lot of tokens with Pyro to block, then our opponent makes his creatures huge with some Thalia's Lieutenant or Master of the Pearl Trident and our tokens look useless and bad. So good, but less good than I thought looking at the list;
* The deck performed well against combo. This is where I liked your version better than my Nahiri version at most. Pressure + discard + sideboard answers (well, I should point out, I kept your maindeck, but I changed your sideboard a whole lot, it was too Affinity-centered) worked very well for me. I like the Storm MU and the Valakut MU is not so terrible, I also defeated other combo decks such as Ad Nauseam and even Dredge (I was playing Anger of the Gods though...);
* The deck performed badly against BGx. This is something that really disappointed me. I lost to Jund twice, I thought it was just variance and bad draws for me, but then I played a third time and lost again, and proceeded to lose to Abzan as well. So I thought about it for a while and actually I think it makes sense. Our removal suite is poor against them. With no Push and Path, we're not in good shape against Goyf. They can take our Terminate with a discard spell and then we just get beaten down with Tarmogoyf and Raging Ravine. Our creatures are smaller. Reveler is situational. Can win you a game out of nowhere, but more often than not it will just end up being a clunky card you have to discard to their Lily +1 or you can't cast because of Scavenging Ooze. Liliana, the Last Hope is a great card against our deck, I got utterly wrecked by her. We are a dog to BGx, to beat them we need them to have bad draws;
* I only played Shadow twice and it looked very good. I burned them out a couple times, other times it was Lingering Souls doing the job. I think this is a good MU, we have more removal then they have threats, we have Burn and they suffer token strategies. I was happy with the Shadow MU but this is nothing new for Mardu colors;
* Eldrazi Tron looked pretty even, possibly slightly unfavorable. I think it's like this: if we run smoothly, we win and they can't do much about it, we can have a pretty fast clock with some disruption. But we NEED to run smoothly. We're a turn too slow, we get wrecked. For them is different: they just need to fend off our early onslaught and they will prevail. So although it's winnable, I don't like to play this MU with Mardu Reveler;
So all in all my win rate was around 50%. I can't say I'm very happy with it. I was doing better with Mardu Nahiri, 'cause I was absolutely crushing aggro decks (sweepers - I am now playing Sweltering Suns in the maindeck, more removal, less dead draws, removal abilites of Lily and Nahiri) and I actually felt better against Eldrazi Tron (Nahiri is a house against them and Lily is also very good. I also missed Crackling Doom). Also, I felt better at grinding, for instance I found the BGx MU a whole lot better. So I'm going back to Nahiri, I feel despite the few results it has put up, this Mardu Reveler deck is not balanced enough.
And by the way, as a Jeskai player I would say to Slowgod: do not trade your Jeskai cards for this deck, Jeskai is a better deck. Maybe Mardu Reveler can become a real contender some day, there is potential, but I think we're not quite there yet.
I appreciate you running my list (or something very similar) and your feedback. Makes your comments that much more credible. And I have to say, I vastly agree with you on match-ups. I had more success overall (60% win rate) but a small swing in the metagame can make a significant difference for a deck like this.
I'm not convinced the recent swing (at least on MTGO) towards creature aggro is a positive for Mardu Reveler. While many of those are good to great match-ups, there are some like traditional blue Merfolk or Affinity that are well positioned against both Humans and us. Burn is on the uptick. I expect those decks to thrive for a bit. More creature aggro also encourages growth in midrange, such as BGx, which can go over the top of us.
Nahiri doesn't feel like the answer to me, although maybe I'll give her another shot. I do think sweepers are well placed at the moment; might even consider 3+ in your mainboard. I've been contemplating how to capitalize on this aggro swing and that's the direction I'm leaning (although not necessarily with Mardu Reveler).
Side note: I haven't seen the 5C Spirits list, although not too surprising that other 5C tribal lists are popping up given Humans recent success. I'll have to look it up.
Mardu is the combination of colors with the best removal suite so the fact creature strategies are on the rise should be good for us, maybe we just need to find the right answers. Personally I like to face these decks with the Nahiri build but if you want to stick to Mardu Reveler I think a card you should strongly consider is Grim Lavamancer. Possibly a split between maindeck and sideboard. These decks are soft on removal and that's a way to punish them. For the same reason Dark Confidant is another possibility, after all the reason Jund tends to beat creature decks is at least partially drawing a bunch of removals with Bob. But obviously Bob and Reveler don't work very well together. Another thing that comes to my mind for your Reveler build is Bontu's Last Reckoning in the sideboard.
My comments were more specific to Mardu Reveler. The aggro decks that have an edge against Humans (Merfolk, Affinity) aren't great for that version; plus an uptick in aggro encourages more BGx decks that aren't a great match-up either. There is definitely room to combat aggro within Mardu colors, but I'm not sure Reveler is the best way to do that. And I say that having put up a 5-0 with it.
You're right that Mardu has access to the best removal suite. The question on my mind recently is whether white is more valuable in a BRx base than simply going green for Jund? It may hinge on the value of Lingering Souls in the meta. Sure, you also pick up Path (although not many of us seem to be playing it) and Lightning Helix, but you can get similar value as the latter from Collective Brutality. In exchange you get access to better catch-all removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay) and a better one creature clock in Tarmogoyf.
Nahiri is obviously a reason to play white as well if that's your finisher. Not to harp on it, but she felt slow when I played her previously though. Seeing a LoTV and Nahiri in your opening hand is discouraging against those same decks I mentioned above (Merfolk, Affinity) or Humans. If the rest of your hand is discard or 1:1 removal, you're quickly going to get overran even if you perfectly curve out; they deploy threats quicker than we can answer. Maybe the solution is more main deck sweepers. When they're a dead card, you're probably relying on ultimating Nahiri anyway.
I wouldn't describe Mardu Reveler (or Mardu midrange more generally) as a "bad BGx", any more than I would describe Abzan as an "inferior Jund". I think they form a triangle of sorts. When Lingering Souls and Path are good, Abzan is the best choice. Likewise, when Lingering Souls and burn are good, choose Mardu. And of course if Lingering Souls are bad, Jund is there to capitalize. They all run on a similar concept of heavy discard and removal. In my opinion, the meta has shifted and I think Lingering Souls aren't well placed at the moment. I love them against decks with few threats because there are only a handful of cards that can efficiently remove them at parity. Against aggro they can chump or trade, but at a tempo loss; they're only buying time so you need to follow with something strong to catch-up.
Here's the challenge I've found playing aggro with a Mardu deck that relies on a more pure "controlling" shell without a big threat. Ignoring mulligan decisions, a 24 land deck (us) is 59% to see at least 3 in your opener; a 19 land deck (them) is 39% to see at least the same number. We're 25% more likely than they are to see more than 3 land in our first 10 cards. We're going to see blanks a higher of the time. Even assuming our removal matches their creatures in mana efficiency and applicability (which it often won't with Nahiri/LoTV or a Champion of the Parish needing termination), we're effectively behind on cards. Which is no issue in itself -- the basis of more controlling mentalities is using that mana advantage to catch up on cards and retake the board state. But with the Nahiri version I tried with no sweepers, I either struggled to drop her on a board she could survive or couldn't find her quick enough when I had regained control. That's why I've been musing about adding some combination of Anger of the Gods or Sweltering Suns to your version's maindeck. May not be the right answer, but that's my thought process.
That's an interesting list you shared. Another option worth pondering.
I've been thinking of a list that starts off RW and sides in black, the question is what cards are worth siding that use only 1 black mana? Kolaghans Command, Slaughter Games, and Terminate/Dreadbore are the ones I can think of.
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After taking a few other decks for a spin, Mardu has sucked me back in. My concerns about it's place in the meta are probably unfounded; I was able to put up another 5-0 in a competitive league today beating Humans x2, Storm, Infect, and UG Merfolk.
I have a couple changes in mind for the next league. Blood Moon doesn't seem necessary outside of Tron versions or Titanshift; probably not enough justification to run it in the current meta. I'm contemplating running 4x Tidehollow Sculler instead (one of TheAller's previous suggestions), also dropping the Burst Lightning. Then swapping the pair of Terminate for Path makes sense for mana efficiency now that it no longer clashes with Blood Moon.
In the sideboard there are 4 spots I'm contemplating changing, between the PTE that are moving to the main and the Anger of the Gods that weren't really needed even versus creature heavy opponents. Maybe +1 Rest in Peace, +1 Collective Brutality, +2 something to fight Tron versions/Titanshift/control? Possibly another flex spot there instead of Shattering Spree or a Wear/Tear.
I've been thinking of a list that starts off RW and sides in black, the question is what cards are worth siding that use only 1 black mana? Kolaghans Command, Slaughter Games, and Terminate/Dreadbore are the ones I can think of.
Lol, where to begin. Inquisition of kozilek, Thoughtseize, Duress, Fatal Push, Surgical Extraction, Lingering Souls, Extirpate, Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, Pack Rat (personal pet card/favorite), Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom. Mixing colors, we have the cards you mentioned plus Tidehollow Sculler, any of the Sorins, Zealous Persecution (token builds), Rain of Gore (you have NEVER seen a soul sisters pilot cry so hard lololol. Also messes with boggles.), Anguished Unmaking. You know, just to name a few.
After taking a few other decks for a spin, Mardu has sucked me back in. My concerns about it's place in the meta are probably unfounded; I was able to put up another 5-0 in a competitive league today beating Humans x2, Storm, Infect, and UG Merfolk.
I have a couple changes in mind for the next league. Blood Moon doesn't seem necessary outside of Tron versions or Titanshift; probably not enough justification to run it in the current meta. I'm contemplating running 4x Tidehollow Sculler instead (one of TheAller's previous suggestions), also dropping the Burst Lightning. Then swapping the pair of Terminate for Path makes sense for mana efficiency now that it no longer clashes with Blood Moon.
In the sideboard there are 4 spots I'm contemplating changing, between the PTE that are moving to the main and the Anger of the Gods that weren't really needed even versus creature heavy opponents. Maybe +1 Rest in Peace, +1 Collective Brutality, +2 something to fight Tron versions/Titanshift/control? Possibly another flex spot there instead of Shattering Spree or a Wear/Tear.
Did you just cut the Reveler entirely? I mean, I was calling that deck "Mardu Reveler", now I'm going to have to change the name
I see you made a lot of other changes...I'm getting a bit excited to test your deck again in this new configuration! Could you explain the reason of all the changes you made? Like no Faithless Looting, from 0 to 4 copies of Push...
Anyway like you know I don't think playing 3 copies of maindeck Moon is a good idea, I can get behind 1 single copy, but not more than that...and now without Looting you can't discard them...
Here are a few other random thoughts:
1. I think Chandra, Torch of Defiance is more powerful than Sorin, Solemn Visitor;
2. I don't really understand the 2 sideboard Paths;
3. I've always found Slaughter Games a bit slow, to the point I think Lost Legacy is better, but probably it's just better to play Surgical Extraction;
4. In general I even wonder if Molten Rain isn't better than Blood Moon for this deck;
No Reveler, indeed. Which ruins the naming convention a bit. Mardu Rever-less Reveler doesn't have the same ring! For the moment I'm labeling it the incredibly boring "Mardu Midrange" until a better name comes along.
Notable card choices:
As you point out, no Faithless Looting. I'd been fairly high on it in my previous comments so that's a significant change. To be honest, I didn't deliberately remove it. I started tinkering with a midrange planeswalker list that was a lot more controlling (24 lands including 4 Shambling Vents, only 2 Gurmag Angler for creatures, 3 LoTV + 2 little Gid + 2 mid Gid); the Timmy in me loved it despite struggling to turn the corner without card draw/selection. Adding Faithless Looting would've been one option to pursue, but instead I went the more aggressive direction. Minor knock against it -- it's no longer feeding a Reveler and my version is a little more inclined to cast both sides of Souls. I think there's room for experimentation though.
I think we've covered the short version on Blood Moon between my initial comments and yours above. But since this already looks like a rambling post, let me elaborate on my thought process in case it helps anyone. I hate losing to big, dumb Tron (exemplified by Gx Tron). Earlier this week I had an opponent forget to play the Urza's Mine he had in hand for TWO TURNS and I still lost that game. Painful. No, it shouldn't be banned. Nothing against those that pilot it. I just hate it. Probably because I'm almost always playing midrange that's a drastic underdog to it.
Anyway, that was my justification for initially running Blood Moon. I've realized, more slowly than I should've, that I'm better off punting those match-ups or at least using more generic disruption. One, there's not that much Tron running around at the moment and two, Blood Moon isn't all that valuable against those decks if you don't have a clock. A turn 6 Thragtusk or Wurmcoil Engine or Oblivion Stone activation still wrecks Mardu.
Chandra, Torch of Defiance is absolutely more powerful in a vacuum. I've held off buying her since her price is really propped up by her use in Standard, although I'll probably eventual give a couple copies a try somewhere. In this deck, Sorin, Solemn Visitor is there for the last bit of reach to shut the door on an opponent. I'm mostly playing 1/1 threats that chip away so he almost halves the opponents clock. The lifegain is nice as well for pulling away from Affinity or Merfolk when things devolve into a race.
The removal choices were pretty straightforward. Paths were sideboarded because they conflicted with Blood Mooon main. They could've been Terminate, but I wanted an out to the occasional hard-to-remove creature since I'm not running LoTV. Now that I'm dropping Blood Moon, Paths will replace the mainboard Terminates. I'm debating whether to go with a 3-3 or 2-4 Path/Push split.
Compared to Selfeisek's list, I'm basically dropping Dreadbore/Forked Bolt/one other removal for a set of Fatal Push. The instant speed is a noticeable upgrade versus aggro decks and manlands, but it also adds versatility. I'm no longer concerned how big your Champion of the Parish or Arcbound Ravager grows. That comes at the expense of being weaker to creature-light decks since Push can't hit planeswalkers or go upstairs. I'm comfortable with that trade in the current meta though since things have turned considerably more aggro. Similar to my current thoughts on Blood Moon, it's a decision to punt the bad match-ups and focus on the deck's strength -- discard what we can't answer, destroy what's left, grind out with cards that can't be answered 1:1.
Slaughter Games is slower than I'd like. I actually decided to give it a try based on the Mardu player's list you'd mentioned earlier in the thread. Rather than go card by card (since my choices are malleable at this point), here's are the match-ups I'm hoping to cover with my sideboard (in roughly ordered by priority).
--Burn. Outside of their nut draws, these games are winnable with the right help.
--Dredge. Basically the same thought as Burn.
--Storm, although I think hate for it overlaps enough with others that I'm not especially considering it.
--Something to trip up Lantern Control, Tron variants, and Titanshift. These likely don't become good match-ups but I'd like to have a shot post-board.
--Ditto for more stereotypical control (Jeskai, UW).
--Midrange "mirror" breakers (a la Jund, Junk, etc.)
Slaughter Games hits a few of those categories, albeit not particularly cheaply. I think 8 spots in my sideboard are fairly solid: 2 Wear/Tear, 2 Collective Brutality, 2 Rest in Peace, 2 Stony Silence. Definitely open to suggestions on the remaining 7. Ideally they'd be useful across a couple match-ups, in the same way that Collective Brutality is great for Burn and applicable for aggro creature decks, or Wear/Tear has uses across Affinity, Lantern, and Tron.
I have a SPICY brew I am building boys. Very different from anything here.. it may end up sucking but I like its game(potentially) vs the combo decks of the format. Once I am complete and run it through its paces I may throw a decklist out there.
Playing it so far, it feels stronger than the last version I posted. I took it through another league yesterday with 4x Tidehollow Sculler and... didn't really learn anything. I lost twice to Lantern Control (ugh) and then punted a match versus Abzan Counters Company, a match-up I feel pretty good about.
I'd say those 4 slots (-1 Burst Lightning, -3 Blood Moon from my last list) are flex. Bob is a good shout; I'm uncertain his impact. He may weaken the good aggro match-ups or the card advantage may be enough to pull away. Is his role different here than in Jund? Can we finish a game before the self-damage is a problem? Worth experimenting.
I'd also add Gurmag Angler and Grim Lavamancer to your list of possibilities. Keep any eye out for adding too many high CMC cards or swapping in too many ETB tapped manlands; the list I posted is only running 21 lands and that includes 4 Blackcleave Cliffs. Could do something like adding a 4 CMC threat, a couple man-lands, and a Grim Lavamancer? Lots of options, just have to keep the mana cost balanced with the manabase. I may try something similar myself next time I can run a league.
Having a lot of trouble figuring out how much if my sidedeck should be sided in black cards and which ones to side. Without having black mained I'm thinking of going land destruction with Boom//Bust, Molten Rain, Ghost Quarter, and Shivan Wumpus.
Side deck I'm thinking 1 Swamp and 1 Godless Shrine or Blood Crypt for lands and Tidehollow Sculler/Lingering Souls and Dreadbore for black cards. Only other side card I know I'll run is Sulfur Elemental.
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Last time i ran it, i was pleased with its performance, tho I went 1-0-2. LoL. I always make a bunch of rookie mistakes after being absent for a while, so i slowed my play to accomodate. And... you see how that ended. Beat out GBu midrange, draws against Mardu Tokens (dedicated token build. Secure the wastes, bitterblossom, anthems) and E Tron. The win against E Tron felt the best, i straight up raced him out of the gates with a pack rat, and won. Look on his face turn 2 was priceless, fear the rat. It should be noted that theres a bit of tension between bedlam and emmy. Though reveler netted me cards 4 or 5 times that night, there was one specific time where i cycled emmy with Nahiri, shuffled yard into deck, then topdecked bedlam. Didnt have enuff mana to hard cast, game ended up drawing. Had i cast him would i have wone? Dunno, but the nonbo was noticable. Anyways, keep up the good work, and kill all the things.
I know it's a terrible matchup, but what do you guys board against GBx tron assuming you don't let the matchup go? A lot of people here play that deck so I main storm, but I wanted to give the selfeisk lists a try. I'm on 3 moon 2 stony for now, but I have quite a lot of free SB space considering graveyard decks aren't all that common here.
I play the Selfeisek version with some variation. I have the third Moon in the board, which is great against them. I would board in all the artifact hate you can and Blood Moon and hope you see it in your opener or draw it fast. It is a pretty rough matchup for us, but we can at least put the burn spells to their face which helps a lot. Keep lots of pressure on them from the start.
Sorry to double post, but there is a video Ari Lax did on SCG of this deck, but it is a 4 color version that splashes blue for Snapcaster and cantrips. Gonna post the deck tech link, let me know any thoughts you guys might have!
Im having this deck on my watchlist ever since 'Selfeisk' is dominating with it on mtgo. I made up a - for my meta suitable - decklist, you guys want to have a look and maybe consider some changes?
I suggest no Kambal in the main. He is very matchup dependant and doesn't really do much. I'd test out Rabblemaster or something similar. Monastery Swiftspear has been awesome for me, providing an early threat or more damage later, especially off a Reveler draw where you can play a land on turn 4 or 5 and follow it up with a one Mana spell.
Also, Corbin Hosler finally gave his version of the deck a spin on tcgplayer's YouTube. Notable differences are no Moon in the main, as well as only 3 Bedlam Revelers in the main, and a playset of Path and two Push main. I'd check it out and let me know what anyone thinks!
Also, Corbin Hosler finally gave his version of the deck a spin on tcgplayer's YouTube. Notable differences are no Moon in the main, as well as only 3 Bedlam Revelers in the main, and a playset of Path and two Push main. I'd check it out and let me know what anyone thinks!
He had some white mana problems, but that's to be expected since he copied Selfeseik's manabase but added 4 extra white spells to the main and quite a few to the sideboard as well.
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Upsides are:
Lingering Souls.
an unrivaled creature removal selection,
huge flexibility to playstyle and card choices (Lily and nahiri into emrakul, or Bob, young pyro and pack rat with Kommand back up, souls and bitterblossom with anthems, go full prowess jank with kiln fiend, swiftspear and reveler, or some hybrid of any of these)
Excellent sideboard options. No, really. Sideboard GOLD is readily available for just about every deck, really hard to choose just 15.
Also, Lingering Souls. I may have mentioned this.
Downsides:
No access to counter magic (no, mana tithe doesn't count, kids. Though guttural response is fun to troll the pros with)
Your gameplan is mostly played at sorcery speed.
Depending on build, hard to pressure dedicated creatureless combo before they go off. Discard and Lily definitely help, but if you're not clocking them they WILL find a way. Also, see lack of counterspells above.
If you're not running a playset of helix and a brutality or 2, you're really soft to burn. Even if you are running them, you simply can't beat burns but draw, see lack of pressure above.
Extreme softness to true Tron and Valakut, though that's basically true for every midrange or control deck. E Tron is a lot easier to deal with.
All in all, Mardu' s best quality is how tailorable it is to what you want to do as a player. If you can part with your serum visions and cryptics, I think you'll have a lift a fun, mostly killing anything that moves. Definitely try it out on cockatrice before actually trading tho, this is a far cry from Jeskai.
Twanicus' response is accurate, but I wanted to highlight this part in particular. As someone who's played a bit of Jeskai, you'll notice those differences right away. Since you've mentioned it, I'm going to assume it's the Reveler version you're considering. Some additional thoughts with that version in mind:
If you have a list you're considering, I can sketch out what the game plan roughly looks like for common opponents. Specific card choices will vary depending on what you run (my sideboard has diverged a lot from Selfeisek's), but I think the strategy behind what you're trying to do will stay pretty similar.
I appreciate you running my list (or something very similar) and your feedback. Makes your comments that much more credible. And I have to say, I vastly agree with you on match-ups. I had more success overall (60% win rate) but a small swing in the metagame can make a significant difference for a deck like this.
I'm not convinced the recent swing (at least on MTGO) towards creature aggro is a positive for Mardu Reveler. While many of those are good to great match-ups, there are some like traditional blue Merfolk or Affinity that are well positioned against both Humans and us. Burn is on the uptick. I expect those decks to thrive for a bit. More creature aggro also encourages growth in midrange, such as BGx, which can go over the top of us.
Nahiri doesn't feel like the answer to me, although maybe I'll give her another shot. I do think sweepers are well placed at the moment; might even consider 3+ in your mainboard. I've been contemplating how to capitalize on this aggro swing and that's the direction I'm leaning (although not necessarily with Mardu Reveler).
Side note: I haven't seen the 5C Spirits list, although not too surprising that other 5C tribal lists are popping up given Humans recent success. I'll have to look it up.
My comments were more specific to Mardu Reveler. The aggro decks that have an edge against Humans (Merfolk, Affinity) aren't great for that version; plus an uptick in aggro encourages more BGx decks that aren't a great match-up either. There is definitely room to combat aggro within Mardu colors, but I'm not sure Reveler is the best way to do that. And I say that having put up a 5-0 with it.
You're right that Mardu has access to the best removal suite. The question on my mind recently is whether white is more valuable in a BRx base than simply going green for Jund? It may hinge on the value of Lingering Souls in the meta. Sure, you also pick up Path (although not many of us seem to be playing it) and Lightning Helix, but you can get similar value as the latter from Collective Brutality. In exchange you get access to better catch-all removal (Maelstrom Pulse, Abrupt Decay) and a better one creature clock in Tarmogoyf.
Nahiri is obviously a reason to play white as well if that's your finisher. Not to harp on it, but she felt slow when I played her previously though. Seeing a LoTV and Nahiri in your opening hand is discouraging against those same decks I mentioned above (Merfolk, Affinity) or Humans. If the rest of your hand is discard or 1:1 removal, you're quickly going to get overran even if you perfectly curve out; they deploy threats quicker than we can answer. Maybe the solution is more main deck sweepers. When they're a dead card, you're probably relying on ultimating Nahiri anyway.
Here's the challenge I've found playing aggro with a Mardu deck that relies on a more pure "controlling" shell without a big threat. Ignoring mulligan decisions, a 24 land deck (us) is 59% to see at least 3 in your opener; a 19 land deck (them) is 39% to see at least the same number. We're 25% more likely than they are to see more than 3 land in our first 10 cards. We're going to see blanks a higher of the time. Even assuming our removal matches their creatures in mana efficiency and applicability (which it often won't with Nahiri/LoTV or a Champion of the Parish needing termination), we're effectively behind on cards. Which is no issue in itself -- the basis of more controlling mentalities is using that mana advantage to catch up on cards and retake the board state. But with the Nahiri version I tried with no sweepers, I either struggled to drop her on a board she could survive or couldn't find her quick enough when I had regained control. That's why I've been musing about adding some combination of Anger of the Gods or Sweltering Suns to your version's maindeck. May not be the right answer, but that's my thought process.
That's an interesting list you shared. Another option worth pondering.
Deck list:
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
2 Swamp
2 Plains
1 Mountain
Spells
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Thoughtseize
4 Lingering Souls
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Lightning Helix
4 Fatal Push
2 Terminate
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Burst Lightning
3 Blood Moon
2 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
4 Young Pyromancer
3 Goblin Rabblemaster
2 Path to Exile
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Rest in Peace
1 Shattering Spree
2 Slaughter Games
2 Collective Brutality
2 Stony Silence
2 Wear/Tear
I have a couple changes in mind for the next league. Blood Moon doesn't seem necessary outside of Tron versions or Titanshift; probably not enough justification to run it in the current meta. I'm contemplating running 4x Tidehollow Sculler instead (one of TheAller's previous suggestions), also dropping the Burst Lightning. Then swapping the pair of Terminate for Path makes sense for mana efficiency now that it no longer clashes with Blood Moon.
In the sideboard there are 4 spots I'm contemplating changing, between the PTE that are moving to the main and the Anger of the Gods that weren't really needed even versus creature heavy opponents. Maybe +1 Rest in Peace, +1 Collective Brutality, +2 something to fight Tron versions/Titanshift/control? Possibly another flex spot there instead of Shattering Spree or a Wear/Tear.
Lol, where to begin. Inquisition of kozilek, Thoughtseize, Duress, Fatal Push, Surgical Extraction, Lingering Souls, Extirpate, Tasigur, Gurmag Angler, Pack Rat (personal pet card/favorite), Dark Confidant, Bitterblossom. Mixing colors, we have the cards you mentioned plus Tidehollow Sculler, any of the Sorins, Zealous Persecution (token builds), Rain of Gore (you have NEVER seen a soul sisters pilot cry so hard lololol. Also messes with boggles.), Anguished Unmaking. You know, just to name a few.
Would love to see your list.
No Reveler, indeed. Which ruins the naming convention a bit. Mardu Rever-less Reveler doesn't have the same ring!
Notable card choices:
--Dredge. Basically the same thought as Burn.
--Storm, although I think hate for it overlaps enough with others that I'm not especially considering it.
--Something to trip up Lantern Control, Tron variants, and Titanshift. These likely don't become good match-ups but I'd like to have a shot post-board.
--Ditto for more stereotypical control (Jeskai, UW).
--Midrange "mirror" breakers (a la Jund, Junk, etc.)
Slaughter Games hits a few of those categories, albeit not particularly cheaply. I think 8 spots in my sideboard are fairly solid: 2 Wear/Tear, 2 Collective Brutality, 2 Rest in Peace, 2 Stony Silence. Definitely open to suggestions on the remaining 7. Ideally they'd be useful across a couple match-ups, in the same way that Collective Brutality is great for Burn and applicable for aggro creature decks, or Wear/Tear has uses across Affinity, Lantern, and Tron.
I'd say those 4 slots (-1 Burst Lightning, -3 Blood Moon from my last list) are flex. Bob is a good shout; I'm uncertain his impact. He may weaken the good aggro match-ups or the card advantage may be enough to pull away. Is his role different here than in Jund? Can we finish a game before the self-damage is a problem? Worth experimenting.
I'd also add Gurmag Angler and Grim Lavamancer to your list of possibilities. Keep any eye out for adding too many high CMC cards or swapping in too many ETB tapped manlands; the list I posted is only running 21 lands and that includes 4 Blackcleave Cliffs. Could do something like adding a 4 CMC threat, a couple man-lands, and a Grim Lavamancer? Lots of options, just have to keep the mana cost balanced with the manabase. I may try something similar myself next time I can run a league.
Side deck I'm thinking 1 Swamp and 1 Godless Shrine or Blood Crypt for lands and Tidehollow Sculler/Lingering Souls and Dreadbore for black cards. Only other side card I know I'll run is Sulfur Elemental.
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StaffMTGO/MTGA: Tyclone
My Primers ~ GWx Vizier Company ~ Knightfall ~ RG Eldrazi ~ Green's Sun's Zenith
More Brews ~ Modern Four Horsemen ~ Gitrog Dredge
2 Bedlam Reveler
1 Emrakul, The Aeons Torn
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Nahiri,the Harbinger
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
2 Fatal Push
3 Path to Exile
2 Dreadbore
4 Lingering Souls
4 Bloodstained Mire
4 Shambling Vent
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Godless Shrine
1 Blood Crypt
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Plains
1 Mountain
1 Vault of the Archangel
Last time i ran it, i was pleased with its performance, tho I went 1-0-2. LoL. I always make a bunch of rookie mistakes after being absent for a while, so i slowed my play to accomodate. And... you see how that ended. Beat out GBu midrange, draws against Mardu Tokens (dedicated token build. Secure the wastes, bitterblossom, anthems) and E Tron. The win against E Tron felt the best, i straight up raced him out of the gates with a pack rat, and won. Look on his face turn 2 was priceless, fear the rat. It should be noted that theres a bit of tension between bedlam and emmy. Though reveler netted me cards 4 or 5 times that night, there was one specific time where i cycled emmy with Nahiri, shuffled yard into deck, then topdecked bedlam. Didnt have enuff mana to hard cast, game ended up drawing. Had i cast him would i have wone? Dunno, but the nonbo was noticable. Anyways, keep up the good work, and kill all the things.
I play the Selfeisek version with some variation. I have the third Moon in the board, which is great against them. I would board in all the artifact hate you can and Blood Moon and hope you see it in your opener or draw it fast. It is a pretty rough matchup for us, but we can at least put the burn spells to their face which helps a lot. Keep lots of pressure on them from the start.
4 Color Bedlam Reveler Deck Tech: https://youtu.be/YWjY5CYnF64
I suggest no Kambal in the main. He is very matchup dependant and doesn't really do much. I'd test out Rabblemaster or something similar. Monastery Swiftspear has been awesome for me, providing an early threat or more damage later, especially off a Reveler draw where you can play a land on turn 4 or 5 and follow it up with a one Mana spell.
Also, Corbin Hosler finally gave his version of the deck a spin on tcgplayer's YouTube. Notable differences are no Moon in the main, as well as only 3 Bedlam Revelers in the main, and a playset of Path and two Push main. I'd check it out and let me know what anyone thinks!
Here's the link: http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=14299&writer=Corbin+Hosler&articledate=12-4-2017
He had some white mana problems, but that's to be expected since he copied Selfeseik's manabase but added 4 extra white spells to the main and quite a few to the sideboard as well.