My problem with pyromancer is that the deck doesn't fuel him well enough. Half the times, our discards are cast before pyromancer which are like half our sorceries and instants. It's best combined with blue for counter-magic. Similar argument applies to mentor so I gave up on making a token midrange deck (also there is still hope for a bw token build splashing red).
I more or less agree with this. I used to run both Pyromancer and Mentor (much preferred Pyromancer btw, both are equally soft to removal but pyro's cost lends it better to our curve & casting with an immediate follow-up spell) and they never preformed as well as I thought they would on paper.
The deck's strategy tends towards emptying everyone's hands, similar to Jund or Abzan, while Pyro and Mentor reward you for keeping your hand as full as possible. Generally one of the strongest openings for this deck is multiple discard spells in the first 2 turns ruining your opponents plans and taking their gas, emptying everyone's hands. This is especially true if you run Liliana of the Veil, which is one of the strongest cards in the deck.
Basically, Pyro and Mentor were fine in an opening hand, but were unspeakably terrible topdecks late game. Imagine no cards in hand, liliana in play, and you topdeck: Pyro, Land, Mentor, or any combination of those while your opponent is pulling back into the game by topdecking pretty much any sequence of spells (they'll probably all do way more than a hellbent Pyromancer). At that point you want a threat that doesn't need much support, which Pyro is not. Those sorts of situations just came up a few too many times over the course of a lot of gameplay so I cut them.
They could be better if you ran draw spells instead of lilianas, but I think that would make the deck worse overall; Liliana's won me way more games than Pyro and Mentor ever did. Sometimes Confidant can keep the spells flowing, but that's not dependable and if Confidant's drawing you multiple cards you're probably winning with or without Pyro / Mentor.
A late game alternative to y. Pyro could be abbot of keral keep. Pyro is best on turn two, curving into l. souls. I really enjoy using him as removal bait to clear a path for d. confidant, since they cant afford to ignore him. Abby, however, shines best on turn 3 and beyond. He works well with the delve creatures, but bob is a huge liability with them. phyrexian arena is a better alternative with the +4cmc's.
I started testing out Abbots and I'm actually pretty into it. Like you mention his downside is that he's weak on turn 2 and that really drove me away at first but I find we have so much disruption I'd rather be playing those spells early anyways, so the cost of waiting a turn isn't as bad as I expected. Upside of course is that unlike Pyro he's a great topdeck later on, and he doesn't trade 1-for-1 with removal (assuming you got to play something off of his ability). Including him did make me slighty re-work my deck to fit him in though, for example Path becomes much better than Terminate because its more cast-able off of an Abbot, more focus on getting double red early to go Abbot >> Bolt, things like that.
I saw a Mardu Pox deck online that peaked my interest. TCG player did an article on it and you can find the deck online through mtggoldfish as well. I didn't like a lot of the card choices so I built my own brew and went 3-1 in a dailies and won a few 8 man queues (when i missed a daily) online. I also pay a more traditional midrange mardu deck and a straight mardu tokens deck but I have had the most success with the pox version.
Hardest matchup (like many decks right now) is Amulet bloom (if the player knows how to play around Land Destruction, if not it can be easy.) and many games i have won by forcing them to late game then cast the Armageddon (bust) side of boom // Bust after they pact. Aggro can win game one a lot but with the added life gain can be fairly easy Games 2-3 and given their greedy manabase i can lock them out of a game pretty often. Midrange games are great because i can take most three color deck out of at least one color. Crackling doom helps A LOT in the boggles matchup as well as any deck that tries to sneak in a fatty like Emrakrul. But there are two ways to get a pseudo Sinkhole turn one land, turn two flagstones of Trokair boom//bust targeting flagstones. Or T1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth T2 flagstones and Smallpox sac'ing the stones. If not turn one you usually have some kind of interaction with inquisition or bolt and turn two if no LD play a bitterblossom and start that 7 turn clock. Remember you can boom//Bust targeting a fetch land hold priority (hold ctrl while casting spell online) and sac the fetch in response. Other matches twin is pretty good could easily change sideboard if meta gets twin heavy, grixis control and delver is favorable (one of the other reasons for adding crackling doom main for tasigur/ angler), and scapeshift is about even, I can hold them off 7 lands long enough (or 8 with a fulminator mage ip) to win out. Gideon is one of the reasons the deck can win very quickly, if you have a ton of tokens you can just drop him and make an emblem, if not you can always just keep pumping out chump blockers or on a clear board just swing for 5 every turn. Any feedback would be HIGHLY appretiated :).
@HugeElfBoy, I saw a list like that win a moderately large online something or another a couple years ago. It's big thing was running crack the earth and 0/1 drop artifacts that wanted to go into the graveyard along with boom//bust, flagstones, etc. I think Mardu Pox is a great place to be if you can pilot it well.
Anyways, I have been working on something myself and would like some input on making it better since it's still just an idea.
The game plan is basically to gain card advantage on your opponent through the red discard + creatures, though I am having difficulty choosing what to include. Seems like Gurmag Angler belongs in this deck somewhere.
Anyways, what do you think? How can I make it better?
@HugeElfBoy
I like the pox lists, the top-end of liliana and gideon is just so powerful, and Smallpox is a disgusting card if you can break the symmetry. Have you thought about trying out Bloodghast? That card would be on my radar for a pox build; it works so well with Smallpox and Liliana & lets you keep up pressure without necessarily investing any mana, which seems good since Smallpox occasionally sets you back a land if you need the effect early. It also helps by keeping pressure through a sweeper, since pyroclasm kills all of the creatures & could buy your opponent a lot of time.
@SoggyTacos
Funny, Bloodghast looks like he'd work really well in your list as well. He's cheaper to actually cast than your other recursive threats and he's also much easier to bring back. I'd also try some Liliana of the Veil if you can get your hands on them; if generating CA by pitching recursive threats is your gameplan Lilly synergizes perfectly on top of being one of the strongest cards in modern. She seems ideal.
Not so sure about the Phoenix, just because you don't have tons of ways to recur it. I can see Chandra is in there partially to get back Phoenix, but otherwise it seems like you could be holding a Bolt or Kommand in hand that would be best used by waiting for a target to kill that instead just gets pointed at the dome prematurely to recur phoenix. In general Bolting a creature is going to have much more of an impact than a 1-time Phoenix revival. A card like Crackling Doom or even Blightning would work well with Phoenix since there the damage is 'free'.
Kolaghan's Command is also not at it's best here; I love Kommand and it's an insane card but since all of your creatures are naturally recursive returning a creature usually doesn't do anything and that's one of the cards stronger modes. In this deck 90% of the time it's just Shock + Discard. Could be cool getting a Demigod back that recurs multiple other Demigods, but that's sort of narrow.
@HugeElfBoy
I like the pox lists, the top-end of liliana and gideon is just so powerful, and Smallpox is a disgusting card if you can break the symmetry. Have you thought about trying out Bloodghast? That card would be on my radar for a pox build; it works so well with Smallpox and Liliana & lets you keep up pressure without necessarily investing any mana, which seems good since Smallpox occasionally sets you back a land if you need the effect early. It also helps by keeping pressure through a sweeper, since pyroclasm kills all of the creatures & could buy your opponent a lot of time.
I like the Bloodghast addition, I had thought of that just don't know what to cut for it.
PS. Thanks for the timely input, That's why I posted the heads of many are better than the heads of the few, I really want to represent that mardu is just as good and jund/junk or even grixis for that matter, just so many possibilities. No other scheme gets terminate and path (let alone crackling doom which i still think is very relevant in modern.)
@HugeElfBoy, I saw a list like that win a moderately large online something or another a couple years ago. It's big thing was running crack the earth and 0/1 drop artifacts that wanted to go into the graveyard along with boom//bust, flagstones, etc. I think Mardu Pox is a great place to be if you can pilot it well.
The crack the earth/simain spirit guide plan came to mind as well, it can be very powerful versus some deck but not so great veruss decks that pay a T1 creature or affinity. and by adding those cards to maximize utility it takes A LOT of space in the deck. So i went for more of a midrange style that has the land destruction in the deck but is not completely reliant on it. I do feel that maybe i should have Surgical extraction somewhere in the 75 I have used is successfully in the past with discard...for example T1 inquisition see they have two of same fetch ( or one in play one in hand) and when they crack extraction makes less lands in deck as well as CA. Also ruins tron and hurts WUx control decks reliant on Celestial Colonnade or combo taking away all amulet of vigor or summers bloom from amuletbloom decks or any other key piece from other combo decks can make the deck far to slow to compete with us....also blightning seems good if not in the pox version at least in my midrange build.
@HugeElfBoy: I have been running a lower to the ground Mardu Pox deck lately and if you are looking for a finisher Myth Realized puts in way more work then a 1 drop should.
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In play: Jund Death Shadow, Grixis Control, Eldrazi Stompy, Ponza
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
@HugeElfBoy: I have been running a lower to the ground Mardu Pox deck lately and if you are looking for a finisher Myth Realized puts in way more work then a 1 drop should.
interesting idea, I've used myth in standard so I know it can be powerful, I will have to test that out.
Round 1 UW Control (2-1): Game 1 We go very late in the game and I eventually land a butcher to win. Game 2 he controlled me enough to get through with snapcaster venser and a celestial colonnade. Game three I had him just about beat when he timed out.
Round 2 Amulet of Vigor (1-2) Game one he went off and I couldn't do much. Game two I was able to discard and destroy his creatures until he conceded. Game 3 I fought through 3 primeval titans the fourth i stalled for a while and didn't draw removal.
Round 3 Boggles (2-1): Game 1 He had 1 boggle with a huge amount of auras on it I stalled pretty late but never got to liliana. G2 He had me to 3 life with butcher 2 fae tokens, bitterblossom, and liliana (2 counters) with fulminator mage in hand. I play fulminator, and activate liliana ( he has boggle with daybreak and rancor) he sacs his windswept Heath to get his dryad Arbor, I sac fulminator to destoy it he sacs the boggle I sac a fae to give butcher lifelink swing next turn draw another butcher and win at 26 life. Game 3 He has to mull down pretty low and conceded after I inquisition and thoughtseize him.
Round 4 Infect (2-1): Game 1 I am able to win with tokens and a butcher chump block when i can and win in the air. Game 2 I remove 4 of his creatures and he plays the Blighted agent to win. Game 3 I draw a coupe souls, butcher and fulmintor mage, remove his creatures, when he plays the agent I terminate it he changes it to his spellskite so I bolt his agent. Chump block with tokens and keep swinging with butcher. Last turn he tries to activate his inkmoth nexus with 1 noble up for mana (he is at 2 life) in response to activation (so he couldn't vines or blessing) I sac the fulminator to kill it, he has no other fliers and dies.
Amulet can be a very tough match but also winnable with discard and fulminator, luckily most people expect it to be banned before the pro tour since it mirrors the domination and consistancy of many other builds that were nerfed for much less. The flip side is if they don't alos nerf groyos' vengeance deck most people playing bloomtitan will probably just move over to that build, on the good side the vengeance deck is very manageable for us.
Maybe we can take off from this shell and add back our bolts.
I'm still an advocate of Mardu being under-represented and still want to break the deck out.
Your thoughts on the article?
Honestly pack rat is just a much worse card than monastary mentor IMO. Pack rat asks you play things that want to be discarded, or you are basically paying cards for rats and the clock isn't even fast.
Why not much play Mentor, and GOOD spells you have to play anyway like path bolt card draw thoughtseize relic gideon sorin etc
Mentor>Rat. K command lets you get back your mentors anyway, so the biggest advantage of rat isnt even that important in WBR
because at 5 mana, rats becomes VERY hard to get rid of. neither card wants to be played on curve, and ideally both want to be played with another card in hand. Difference is, rats doesn't care if that card is good, bad, or just another land. and don't underestimate a pack rat clock; assuming your casting rats with enough mana to make another rat, unanswered your hitting for 0/6/12 damage from the turn you drop them. Mentor's clock is a little harder to quantify, due to prowess, but bolting mentor prevents more tokens from being made once he's dead. A single pack rat token will keep. making. pack rats. I will concede that mentors clock is prolly faster in ideal situations, but I will take the resilience and lower cmc any day of the week.
Another argument for Pack Rat is topdeck quality. If it's late in the game and both players are low on cards and you topdeck a Rat, you can easily plan on turning the rest of your draw steps into Rats and it can potentially win you the game, all in the face of nearly any removal spell. On the other hand in the same situation you topdeck a Mentor and it can take over a game IF your draw steps are a constant stream of noncreature spells AND none of your opponents topdecks are creature removal of any kind. Mentor just needs more things to go right to perform at its best.
Granted, when those circumstances align Mentor closes a game at least as quickly as Rats and sometimes faster, and the fact that Mentor generates CA (since you don't have to discard, like rat) is a huge bonus. Basically I think Rat is more consistent and reliable but Mentor clearly has a higher ceiling.
@aleixarboix I like your list but I'll warn you Tron, Amulet, and to a degree Melira Company are all rough matchups. If that's your expected meta make sure you're prepared with things like Fulminator Mage, Anger of the Gods, and if you want the nuclear option Blood Moon. Didn't see a SB listed on the deck you linked.
Howdy everyone, I've been toying around with a mardu pyromancer/mentor brew because I got tired of playing Green devotion brews. And the deck is interesting and grinds very well (Chandra and outpost siege are late game cards), but can often just run into air (classic pyromancer and mentor without blue problems). The deck is horrible (mine is super untuned and thrown together with what I had lying around M10 duals ftw) but I've fallen in love with Mardu. What appeals to me so much is getting to play the best 1 mana disruption in the format.
Having access to bolt, path and a split of Thoughtsieze and Inquisition is incredible. I also have fallen in love with lingering souls, Kolaghan's Command, Outpost Siege, Sideboarded Blightning's and Murderous Cut. The removal suite is unparalleled and Mentor and Pyromancer can lock up games quick. But as lot's of people in this thread have said they are atrocious topdecks and can lose games when drawn at the wrong times.
So my questions to all of you are what is the best configuration for the tokens build (are anthems needed, how disruption heavy should you go, is Gideon now required, is Sorin worth it, is Bitterblossom too slow, for Young Peezy and mentor lists is a looting effect worth is and which is best, is Bob a requirement)? Is it too much to run 4 of both Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor? Is it worth trying to transition to midrange at all if Liliana isn't in the budget? Same question for controlling versions?
Thanks a bunch guys, I won't post my entire list as it's super rough but I'll give the outline below.
Howdy everyone, I've been toying around with a mardu pyromancer/mentor brew because I got tired of playing Green devotion brews. And the deck is interesting and grinds very well (Chandra and outpost siege are late game cards), but can often just run into air (classic pyromancer and mentor without blue problems). The deck is horrible (mine is super untuned and thrown together with what I had lying around M10 duals ftw) but I've fallen in love with Mardu. What appeals to me so much is getting to play the best 1 mana disruption in the format.
Having access to bolt, path and a split of Thoughtsieze and Inquisition is incredible. I also have fallen in love with lingering souls, Kolaghan's Command, Outpost Siege, Sideboarded Blightning's and Murderous Cut. The removal suite is unparalleled and Mentor and Pyromancer can lock up games quick. But as lot's of people in this thread have said they are atrocious topdecks and can lose games when drawn at the wrong times.
So my questions to all of you are what is the best configuration for the tokens build (are anthems needed, how disruption heavy should you go, is Gideon now required, is Sorin worth it, is Bitterblossom too slow, for Young Peezy and mentor lists is a looting effect worth is and which is best, is Bob a requirement)? Is it too much to run 4 of both Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor? Is it worth trying to transition to midrange at all if Liliana isn't in the budget? Same question for controlling versions?
Thanks a bunch guys, I won't post my entire list as it's super rough but I'll give the outline below.
Fortunately, we also have access to one of the more underrated pieces of removal exclusive to us: crackling doom. I'd recommend having at least 2 in your 75, especially if you don't have lily. It gets around hexproof,spellskite, and regen, without the ability to be rendered useless against dryad arbor shenanigans. It's good against midrange decks like Jund, Junk, and delver, and just savage against boggles, infect, and affinity.
If you're looking to filter through your deck and fill up your graveyard, faithless looting is the way to go. Painful truths also seems promising; drawing 3 and losing 3 life for three seems pretty good for a deck without access to blue.
It just occured to me, myth realized might be the card for us, especially if you're going a tokens route with young pyro/ mentor, since it gets bigger each time you play a non creature, and is a mana sink for when nothing in particular is going on. I played him in a BW tokens deck in standard and he was out of control in there.
Howdy everyone, I've been toying around with a mardu pyromancer/mentor brew because I got tired of playing Green devotion brews. And the deck is interesting and grinds very well (Chandra and outpost siege are late game cards), but can often just run into air (classic pyromancer and mentor without blue problems). The deck is horrible (mine is super untuned and thrown together with what I had lying around M10 duals ftw) but I've fallen in love with Mardu. What appeals to me so much is getting to play the best 1 mana disruption in the format.
Having access to bolt, path and a split of Thoughtsieze and Inquisition is incredible. I also have fallen in love with lingering souls, Kolaghan's Command, Outpost Siege, Sideboarded Blightning's and Murderous Cut. The removal suite is unparalleled and Mentor and Pyromancer can lock up games quick. But as lot's of people in this thread have said they are atrocious topdecks and can lose games when drawn at the wrong times.
So my questions to all of you are what is the best configuration for the tokens build (are anthems needed, how disruption heavy should you go, is Gideon now required, is Sorin worth it, is Bitterblossom too slow, for Young Peezy and mentor lists is a looting effect worth is and which is best, is Bob a requirement)? Is it too much to run 4 of both Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor? Is it worth trying to transition to midrange at all if Liliana isn't in the budget? Same question for controlling versions?
Thanks a bunch guys, I won't post my entire list as it's super rough but I'll give the outline below.
I do think that 4 Pyro & 4 Mentor is too much, since drawing several copies is generally much worse than a mix of them and spells (plus Kol's Command can function as extra copies if you need it). If you want to make those cards the star threats I'd run somewhere from 5~7 copies total, and I'd definitely run 4x Lingering Souls. The flashback being able to trigger Pyro or Mentor 2 times is huge, on top of Souls being probably the best BW card in modern. It also shores up the Pyro / Mentor weakness to spot removal; decks with endless removal for Pyros have nightmares dealing with Lingering Souls (decks like Grixis, for example).
Dark Confidant is definitely worth it, and he's one of the biggest strengths Mardu has beyond its spell suite. Definitely worth running and definitely very strong with Pyro / Mentor. One of the best cards you could add to the deck.
About Lilly, I mentioned this earlier but I really don't think she's amazing with a Pyro / Mentor build. She's one of the strongest cards we've got but her tendency to empty hands works against Pyromancer's ability, so if you're not building with her it's not necessarily a bad thing. Like carlsagan said, Crackling Doom can help you fill the gap and replace Lilly's edict effect (overall worse than Lilly but as an edict kill spell much better, and triggers Pyro).
Crackling doom has been great for me, at minimum I run 2x in the side in all my builds. It blows out boggles and decks trying to cheat in a big creature, also works versus amulet bloom since lili will usually hit a Khalni Garden Token, also gets around infects protection spells :).
on the other hand here is the token build I have been brewing around with. Still play the midrange in tournaments but tweaking this pyromance build.
Edit: since my last win on mtgo I was able to get Dark Confidants so I am updating my midrange deck in the spoiler below (to not take up TOO much room on the page.
The deck's strategy tends towards emptying everyone's hands, similar to Jund or Abzan, while Pyro and Mentor reward you for keeping your hand as full as possible. Generally one of the strongest openings for this deck is multiple discard spells in the first 2 turns ruining your opponents plans and taking their gas, emptying everyone's hands. This is especially true if you run Liliana of the Veil, which is one of the strongest cards in the deck.
Basically, Pyro and Mentor were fine in an opening hand, but were unspeakably terrible topdecks late game. Imagine no cards in hand, liliana in play, and you topdeck: Pyro, Land, Mentor, or any combination of those while your opponent is pulling back into the game by topdecking pretty much any sequence of spells (they'll probably all do way more than a hellbent Pyromancer). At that point you want a threat that doesn't need much support, which Pyro is not. Those sorts of situations just came up a few too many times over the course of a lot of gameplay so I cut them.
They could be better if you ran draw spells instead of lilianas, but I think that would make the deck worse overall; Liliana's won me way more games than Pyro and Mentor ever did. Sometimes Confidant can keep the spells flowing, but that's not dependable and if Confidant's drawing you multiple cards you're probably winning with or without Pyro / Mentor.
I started testing out Abbots and I'm actually pretty into it. Like you mention his downside is that he's weak on turn 2 and that really drove me away at first but I find we have so much disruption I'd rather be playing those spells early anyways, so the cost of waiting a turn isn't as bad as I expected. Upside of course is that unlike Pyro he's a great topdeck later on, and he doesn't trade 1-for-1 with removal (assuming you got to play something off of his ability). Including him did make me slighty re-work my deck to fit him in though, for example Path becomes much better than Terminate because its more cast-able off of an Abbot, more focus on getting double red early to go Abbot >> Bolt, things like that.
4 Fulminator Mage
Spells 29
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Bitterblossom
4 Smallpox
3 Boom // Bust
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Crackling Doom
2 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
1 Damnation
1 Ajani Vengeant
3 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Flagstones of Trokair
3 Godless Shrine
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
1 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Stony Silence
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Lightning Helix
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Kolaghan's Command
3 Kitchen Finks
1 Wear // Tear
1 Wrath of God
1 Shatterstorm
Hardest matchup (like many decks right now) is Amulet bloom (if the player knows how to play around Land Destruction, if not it can be easy.) and many games i have won by forcing them to late game then cast the Armageddon (bust) side of boom // Bust after they pact. Aggro can win game one a lot but with the added life gain can be fairly easy Games 2-3 and given their greedy manabase i can lock them out of a game pretty often. Midrange games are great because i can take most three color deck out of at least one color. Crackling doom helps A LOT in the boggles matchup as well as any deck that tries to sneak in a fatty like Emrakrul. But there are two ways to get a pseudo Sinkhole turn one land, turn two flagstones of Trokair boom//bust targeting flagstones. Or T1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth T2 flagstones and Smallpox sac'ing the stones. If not turn one you usually have some kind of interaction with inquisition or bolt and turn two if no LD play a bitterblossom and start that 7 turn clock. Remember you can boom//Bust targeting a fetch land hold priority (hold ctrl while casting spell online) and sac the fetch in response. Other matches twin is pretty good could easily change sideboard if meta gets twin heavy, grixis control and delver is favorable (one of the other reasons for adding crackling doom main for tasigur/ angler), and scapeshift is about even, I can hold them off 7 lands long enough (or 8 with a fulminator mage ip) to win out. Gideon is one of the reasons the deck can win very quickly, if you have a ton of tokens you can just drop him and make an emblem, if not you can always just keep pumping out chump blockers or on a clear board just swing for 5 every turn. Any feedback would be HIGHLY appretiated :).
TCG write up= http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12955
MTGGOLDFISH link= http://www.mtggoldfish.com/archetype/modern-mardu-pox#online
Slightly different take on tapped out= http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/mardu-rock-pox/
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Anyways, I have been working on something myself and would like some input on making it better since it's still just an idea.
4 Chandra's Phoenix
4 Demigod of Revenge
Sorceries
4 Faithless Looting
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Lingering Souls
2 Tormenting Voice
Instants
3 Kolaghan's Command
4 Lightning Axe
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Terminate
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
Land
2 Blood Moon
2 Arid Mesa
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
4 Bloodstained Mire
1 Clifftop Retreat
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mountain
1 Plains
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
The game plan is basically to gain card advantage on your opponent through the red discard + creatures, though I am having difficulty choosing what to include. Seems like Gurmag Angler belongs in this deck somewhere.
Anyways, what do you think? How can I make it better?
RGW Naya Company
RWB Mardu Control
I like the pox lists, the top-end of liliana and gideon is just so powerful, and Smallpox is a disgusting card if you can break the symmetry. Have you thought about trying out Bloodghast? That card would be on my radar for a pox build; it works so well with Smallpox and Liliana & lets you keep up pressure without necessarily investing any mana, which seems good since Smallpox occasionally sets you back a land if you need the effect early. It also helps by keeping pressure through a sweeper, since pyroclasm kills all of the creatures & could buy your opponent a lot of time.
@SoggyTacos
Funny, Bloodghast looks like he'd work really well in your list as well. He's cheaper to actually cast than your other recursive threats and he's also much easier to bring back. I'd also try some Liliana of the Veil if you can get your hands on them; if generating CA by pitching recursive threats is your gameplan Lilly synergizes perfectly on top of being one of the strongest cards in modern. She seems ideal.
Not so sure about the Phoenix, just because you don't have tons of ways to recur it. I can see Chandra is in there partially to get back Phoenix, but otherwise it seems like you could be holding a Bolt or Kommand in hand that would be best used by waiting for a target to kill that instead just gets pointed at the dome prematurely to recur phoenix. In general Bolting a creature is going to have much more of an impact than a 1-time Phoenix revival. A card like Crackling Doom or even Blightning would work well with Phoenix since there the damage is 'free'.
Kolaghan's Command is also not at it's best here; I love Kommand and it's an insane card but since all of your creatures are naturally recursive returning a creature usually doesn't do anything and that's one of the cards stronger modes. In this deck 90% of the time it's just Shock + Discard. Could be cool getting a Demigod back that recurs multiple other Demigods, but that's sort of narrow.
I like the Bloodghast addition, I had thought of that just don't know what to cut for it.
PS. Thanks for the timely input, That's why I posted the heads of many are better than the heads of the few, I really want to represent that mardu is just as good and jund/junk or even grixis for that matter, just so many possibilities. No other scheme gets terminate and path (let alone crackling doom which i still think is very relevant in modern.)
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
In the yard: RUG Delver, Kiki-Chord, Grixis Twin, Mardu Control, Smallpox, Jeskai Control, Jeskai Delver, Assault Loam, Elves, Deathcloud, Eggs, Storm
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
1 Grim Lavamancer
4 Butcher of the horde
2 Gurmag Angler
Spells 29
3 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
3 Bitterblossom
4 Terminate
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Kolaghan's Command
1 Damnation
3 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Godless Shrine
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Duress
2 Stony Silence
1 Rakdos Charm
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Anger of the Gods
4 Fulminator Mage
2 Crackling Doom
Round 1 UW Control (2-1): Game 1 We go very late in the game and I eventually land a butcher to win. Game 2 he controlled me enough to get through with snapcaster venser and a celestial colonnade. Game three I had him just about beat when he timed out.
Round 2 Amulet of Vigor (1-2) Game one he went off and I couldn't do much. Game two I was able to discard and destroy his creatures until he conceded. Game 3 I fought through 3 primeval titans the fourth i stalled for a while and didn't draw removal.
Round 3 Boggles (2-1): Game 1 He had 1 boggle with a huge amount of auras on it I stalled pretty late but never got to liliana. G2 He had me to 3 life with butcher 2 fae tokens, bitterblossom, and liliana (2 counters) with fulminator mage in hand. I play fulminator, and activate liliana ( he has boggle with daybreak and rancor) he sacs his windswept Heath to get his dryad Arbor, I sac fulminator to destoy it he sacs the boggle I sac a fae to give butcher lifelink swing next turn draw another butcher and win at 26 life. Game 3 He has to mull down pretty low and conceded after I inquisition and thoughtseize him.
Round 4 Infect (2-1): Game 1 I am able to win with tokens and a butcher chump block when i can and win in the air. Game 2 I remove 4 of his creatures and he plays the Blighted agent to win. Game 3 I draw a coupe souls, butcher and fulmintor mage, remove his creatures, when he plays the agent I terminate it he changes it to his spellskite so I bolt his agent. Chump block with tokens and keep swinging with butcher. Last turn he tries to activate his inkmoth nexus with 1 noble up for mana (he is at 2 life) in response to activation (so he couldn't vines or blessing) I sac the fulminator to kill it, he has no other fliers and dies.
Amulet can be a very tough match but also winnable with discard and fulminator, luckily most people expect it to be banned before the pro tour since it mirrors the domination and consistancy of many other builds that were nerfed for much less. The flip side is if they don't alos nerf groyos' vengeance deck most people playing bloomtitan will probably just move over to that build, on the good side the vengeance deck is very manageable for us.
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
https://www.reddit.com/r/spikes/comments/3u99jj/modern_bw_midrange_primer/
Maybe we can take off from this shell and add back our bolts.
I'm still an advocate of Mardu being under-represented and still want to break the deck out.
Your thoughts on the article?
Modern: GWB Abzan Coco; BWR Mardu; GWB Knightfall; BW Eldrazi Taxes
Tiny Leaders: GWB Anafenza
Honestly pack rat is just a much worse card than monastary mentor IMO. Pack rat asks you play things that want to be discarded, or you are basically paying cards for rats and the clock isn't even fast.
Why not much play Mentor, and GOOD spells you have to play anyway like path bolt card draw thoughtseize relic gideon sorin etc
Mentor>Rat. K command lets you get back your mentors anyway, so the biggest advantage of rat isnt even that important in WBR
Granted, when those circumstances align Mentor closes a game at least as quickly as Rats and sometimes faster, and the fact that Mentor generates CA (since you don't have to discard, like rat) is a huge bonus. Basically I think Rat is more consistent and reliable but Mentor clearly has a higher ceiling.
Good news, Grixis and Twin aren't bad at all.
Having access to bolt, path and a split of Thoughtsieze and Inquisition is incredible. I also have fallen in love with lingering souls, Kolaghan's Command, Outpost Siege, Sideboarded Blightning's and Murderous Cut. The removal suite is unparalleled and Mentor and Pyromancer can lock up games quick. But as lot's of people in this thread have said they are atrocious topdecks and can lose games when drawn at the wrong times.
So my questions to all of you are what is the best configuration for the tokens build (are anthems needed, how disruption heavy should you go, is Gideon now required, is Sorin worth it, is Bitterblossom too slow, for Young Peezy and mentor lists is a looting effect worth is and which is best, is Bob a requirement)? Is it too much to run 4 of both Young Pyromancer and Monastery Mentor? Is it worth trying to transition to midrange at all if Liliana isn't in the budget? Same question for controlling versions?
Thanks a bunch guys, I won't post my entire list as it's super rough but I'll give the outline below.
4 Monastery Mentor
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Path to Exile
3 Thoughtseize
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Magmatic Insight
2 Lightning Helix
2 Terminate
2 Lingering Souls
2 Kolaghan's Command
2 Murderous Cut
1 Chandra Pyromaster
1 Outpost Siege
Fortunately, we also have access to one of the more underrated pieces of removal exclusive to us: crackling doom. I'd recommend having at least 2 in your 75, especially if you don't have lily. It gets around hexproof,spellskite, and regen, without the ability to be rendered useless against dryad arbor shenanigans. It's good against midrange decks like Jund, Junk, and delver, and just savage against boggles, infect, and affinity.
If you're looking to filter through your deck and fill up your graveyard, faithless looting is the way to go. Painful truths also seems promising; drawing 3 and losing 3 life for three seems pretty good for a deck without access to blue.
It just occured to me, myth realized might be the card for us, especially if you're going a tokens route with young pyro/ mentor, since it gets bigger each time you play a non creature, and is a mana sink for when nothing in particular is going on. I played him in a BW tokens deck in standard and he was out of control in there.
Hopefully this helps!
I do think that 4 Pyro & 4 Mentor is too much, since drawing several copies is generally much worse than a mix of them and spells (plus Kol's Command can function as extra copies if you need it). If you want to make those cards the star threats I'd run somewhere from 5~7 copies total, and I'd definitely run 4x Lingering Souls. The flashback being able to trigger Pyro or Mentor 2 times is huge, on top of Souls being probably the best BW card in modern. It also shores up the Pyro / Mentor weakness to spot removal; decks with endless removal for Pyros have nightmares dealing with Lingering Souls (decks like Grixis, for example).
Dark Confidant is definitely worth it, and he's one of the biggest strengths Mardu has beyond its spell suite. Definitely worth running and definitely very strong with Pyro / Mentor. One of the best cards you could add to the deck.
About Lilly, I mentioned this earlier but I really don't think she's amazing with a Pyro / Mentor build. She's one of the strongest cards we've got but her tendency to empty hands works against Pyromancer's ability, so if you're not building with her it's not necessarily a bad thing. Like carlsagan said, Crackling Doom can help you fill the gap and replace Lilly's edict effect (overall worse than Lilly but as an edict kill spell much better, and triggers Pyro).
on the other hand here is the token build I have been brewing around with. Still play the midrange in tournaments but tweaking this pyromance build.
4 Young Pyromancer
Spells 33
1 Duress
3 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Lightning Bolt
4 Intangible Virtue
3 Bitterblossom
3 Zealous Persecution
3 Terminate
4 Lingering Souls
3 Sorin, Solemn Visitor
3 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Mutavault
2 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Vault of the Archangel
2 Rending Volley
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Boros Charm
2 Timely Reinforcements
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Crackling Doom
2 Wear // Tear
Edit: since my last win on mtgo I was able to get Dark Confidants so I am updating my midrange deck in the spoiler below (to not take up TOO much room on the page.
3 Dark Confidant
3 Kitchen Finks
3 Butcher of the Horde
Spells 27
3 Path to Exile
4 Inquisition OF kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Bitterblossom
3 Terminate
4 Lingering Souls
3 Liliana of the Veil
1 Kolaghan's Command
3 Arid Mesa
2 Blood Crypt
1 Bloodstained Mire
3 Godless Shirne
3 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
2 Mountain
2 Plains
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
2 Stony Silence
3 Kor Firewalker
1 Rakdos Charm
3 Fulminator Mage
2 Crackling Doom
2 wear // Tear
1 Wrath of God
1 Damnation
WDeath and TaxesW
RWGBurnGWR
Edit: this was directed towards Maverickzero, by the way. My formatting skills are crap.