Modern season coming up and need some advice on beating a few decks:
1) ad nauseum -- seriously RG aren't exactly the best colors to disrupt or stop this combo. I played against it a lot and seems like you Have to keep them off mana and land a quick clock but the suspended petal just seems to get them there // I just don't think a fast blood moon / needle on lightning storm really get the job done here.
2) sun and moon or RW prison - this matchup is a similar strategy to ours except they do a better job of locking out and only needing s to stick a walker to win. The matchup feels like 50/50 at least what I've played. I know everyone is gonna say stormbreath is pro white -- but now these fools play like blessed alliance and make you sack an attacking creature.
3) counter magic decks i.e. Esper draw go or jeskai control -- so lately I've found that inferno Titan dies to path hard or just gets countered in these matchups not to mention esper versions fatal push all of our dorks and 4 drop utility creatures -- last tourney I ran literally gaea's revenge for a win. The dude costs a lot to cast but doesn't get countered or die to anything except a board wipe.
Any advise on these matchups is appreciated.
Also cards I've considered testing :
Lignify : 2 mana removal for the tasigur / death shadow or other problem creatures
Great sable stag : sounds like a joke but only cost 3 mana for an uncounterable push proof creature to block death shadow and all those pesky black/blue threats.
Genju of the spires : under a blood moon you get a reacurring ball lightning - seems a bit faster than having nissa animate your lands; maybe it's too cute tho.
Godo bandit warlord: I see a few lists running a batterskull - why not have a quick way to go wide and tutor it up?
Maybe all these cards are bad -- just wanting some input as I've found the all in Titan thing isn't really winning as many games as the 4 & 5 drop protection creatures / uncounterable creatures are the one doing work aka stormbreath bs white and chameleon colossus vs black
2. This is probably an easy match-up, they have no pressure whatsoever and are weak to LD, Beast Within (and Stormbreath Dragon) is very good against any of their PW's.
An early Chalice of the Void can be annoying but not that bad. Flashfires is really narrow but might work too.
Also, wouldn't Obstinate Baloth (also good against discard) be a more efficient stabilization creature against aggro/burn over Thragtusk ?
The 5-drop slot is also rather cloged with the 2x Stormbreath, 2x Garruk and 1x Primal Command already.
Strangely enough the deck runs only 8x turn-1 acceleration pieces (no 2x Birds of Paradise) and 22x lands instead of 21x.
The birds are a necessary evil imho, the deck absolutely needs the turn 1 ramp (I'd mulligan most hands without it)
and is very slow and clunky otherwise.
But what REALLY annoyed me here was the player behind the deck, I couldn't focus, because she danced between her phases, kept forgetting triggers. It all ended in me trying to resolve a Mwonvuli Acid-Moss on her untapped Island. She said okay and I took me deck to search for the forest. While I happily searched through it she said "Wait, my Vial is on 1, I vial in Cursecatcher and counter it.". I said "Uhm, no? Spell has already resolved, Atlantis has sunk, you can't ask some fishpeople now to pull it back up", which she replied with "You didn't give me time to think properly". My answer "Well, saying "okay" is enough for me" made her really mad.
The rest of the game also played like this, wasn't fun at all.
Letting you start searching means she already let your spell resolve, and thus must live with the consequences. If she insists that you let it go back, just let her call a judge to resolve the problem.
Hard luck on the rest of the matches. Hope that doesn't happen to me this week. I'm thinking of loaning a few Courser to try out in addition to testing my two Hazoret.
How good is Chandra flamecaller in the list? I feel like the 6 mana is a bit much for two 3/1s -- though the hand ditch/card draw seems sweet? I've curved my list to less 6 drops ingerneral for multiple plays per turn and just wondering if Chandra torch of defiance is all we need?
Also, wouldn't Obstinate Baloth (also good against discard) be a more efficient stabilization creature against aggro/burn over Thragtusk ?
The 5-drop slot is also rather cloged with the 2x Stormbreath, 2x Garruk and 1x Primal Command already.
Strangely enough the deck runs only 8x turn-1 acceleration pieces (no 2x Birds of Paradise) and 22x lands instead of 21x.
Garruk, Primal Hunter allows you to have permnant threats against other midrange decks (the continuously 3/3 beasts)
His draw power is more than Nissa , if you have a Titan, or Strombreath on the field, he draws you more cards, but Nissa can only help you draw 1-2 each turn if you have emblem.
My idea is I think I will change the deck with add some Thrun or birds. I feel the deck is not fast without the mana acclerators.
(what are the reason not running 1-2 copy of Choke those days? It is so good vs blue control decks)
How good is Chandra flamecaller in the list? I feel like the 6 mana is a bit much for two 3/1s -- though the hand ditch/card draw seems sweet? I've curved my list to less 6 drops ingerneral for multiple plays per turn and just wondering if Chandra torch of defiance is all we need?
When I originally put Ponza together, I wanted 4 Titans, but due to time restrictions I couldn't get a 4th in time, so I subbed the 4th with a Chandra, Flamecaller. From my experience, the constant 6 power attacking and the sweep from her [-X] is actually very good. I almost never used the hand cycling ability. It just depends on how many 6 drops you want.
(what are the reason not running 1-2 copy of Choke those days? It is so good vs blue control decks)
If you feel your meta is heavy enough on basic Islands to warrant inclusion of Choke, go ahead and include a few in your sideboard. Just remember Blood Moon removes "Island" from nonbasic Islands, and cuts them off their blue all together, and makes Choke less useful the more nonbasic there are.
I have also found flamecaller useful. I do a 3-1 split on titan and chandra so I don't always have her but there are definitely times when she won the game where a titan wouldn't have. I've been testing the no birds list online and im having mixed feelings about it. I feel like I Mulligan more, because I too mull most hands that dont have ramp, but maybe that is the trap with this deck. Perhaps we arent supposed to? I dunno.
Seeing all this talk about planeswalkers has me wondering whether we could pull off playing Doubling Season or if it's just too cute? The 5cmc is steep, but if we can hit on our drops and ramp into it early, there are quite a few walkers with game-ending ultimates which we can drop the following turn. Just a thought; curious to hear if you folks think it'd be feasible.
Anyhow, problem stays, open for suggestions here,I would like to know your gameplan in this matchup. (Fish)
Yeah, Merfolk are just a hard counter to our main plan of mana denial. Engineered Explosives out of the board is the key to this matchup. It answers Spreading Seas and lords very cleanly. If they can't kill you and you can't kill them in an alpha-strike keeping it on the battlefield to strand their creatures in hand makes a Monstrosity trigger on Stormbreath Dragon very painful. Beast Within on the land they Spreading Seased is a nice way to trick combat in the midgame.
Anger of the Gods is basically built for this situation. Gets around Kira as well. Most play 3-4. Much broader application than EE as well as it hoses Dredge, Elves, and CoCo offenders.
Bonfire does the same job but not as reliably. Lightning Bolt (or your spot removal of choice) in the SB is excellent.
Spreading Seas hurts on our Utopia Sprawl lands, so keep that in mind if you see a hand with 1 Sprawl and a ton of 5 drops. And don't get greedy by enchanting lands with multiple Sprawl, this opens you up to a blowout Spreading Seas. Keeping them off Islands is nearly impossible, so you'll generally target Mutavault with LD (unless of course they're stuck on 1 blue and you have Moon in hand). You'll likely want to side out cards with heavier colored mana costs as a Fish player will do their best to restrict your access to multiple sources of the same color. Thragtusk is your pal here as it's resistant to Vapor Snag.
3 Chandra are too much, only one can be on the battlefield.
Maybe one Nissa?
So far that never was a problem. Nissa, Vital Force power level disappointed me quite often, I'm going to stick with 3 Chandra.
Doubling Season isn't a card for us. It's not supporting our general gameplan and would just be a win-more card. The card doesn't do anything on its own aswell. And on top of it it's not something we want to ramp into. Playing it would feel like a wasted turn.
3 CHandra seems to play fine for me as well. Possibly because I take the smaller chandra down the first turn most times. After that she doesn't stick around long. Also opponents love to try and kill walkers. #lifegain
Doubling Season is the very pinnacle of winmore, doesn't do anything alone and only makes a few of our bombs cuter.
Thanks guys for the link to my deck! I want to address a couple things that stand out from the comments i saw.
First, yeah i cut birds from the deck. I used to run 1 birds and 22 land but the birds felt lack luster and didn't do anything. Arbor elf lets you turn 2 4 drop and utopia sprawl doesn't get pushed or bolted. I know that i want to draw at least one 1 drop a game but the cost of drawing them off the top kills me.
Second, garruk primal is WAY better than nissa not close. Nissa can make you lose land drops when animating lands and the draw off land isn't as relevant when we have blood moon out. If you haven't tried garruk primal don't knock it till you try it.
Third, I agree that my 5 drop slot is a little clogged. I was going to put in Chameleon Colossus to help more against death shadow since they seem to have cut bolt.
Fourth, Obstinate Baloth was in the board because the meta call i was making is that burn wasn't going to be popular and lilly of the veil wasn't as popular either. Both cases were right for that tournament and its not a set in stone call either way.
Ill be looking into this forum for more ideas guys. And on the one guy who said i was lucky... i mean you have to be a little bit lucky but i had the best modern Invi record at 8-0 so some skill was involved.
Go ponza!!!
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1) ad nauseum -- seriously RG aren't exactly the best colors to disrupt or stop this combo. I played against it a lot and seems like you Have to keep them off mana and land a quick clock but the suspended petal just seems to get them there // I just don't think a fast blood moon / needle on lightning storm really get the job done here.
2) sun and moon or RW prison - this matchup is a similar strategy to ours except they do a better job of locking out and only needing s to stick a walker to win. The matchup feels like 50/50 at least what I've played. I know everyone is gonna say stormbreath is pro white -- but now these fools play like blessed alliance and make you sack an attacking creature.
3) counter magic decks i.e. Esper draw go or jeskai control -- so lately I've found that inferno Titan dies to path hard or just gets countered in these matchups not to mention esper versions fatal push all of our dorks and 4 drop utility creatures -- last tourney I ran literally gaea's revenge for a win. The dude costs a lot to cast but doesn't get countered or die to anything except a board wipe.
Any advise on these matchups is appreciated.
Also cards I've considered testing :
Lignify : 2 mana removal for the tasigur / death shadow or other problem creatures
Great sable stag : sounds like a joke but only cost 3 mana for an uncounterable push proof creature to block death shadow and all those pesky black/blue threats.
Genju of the spires : under a blood moon you get a reacurring ball lightning - seems a bit faster than having nissa animate your lands; maybe it's too cute tho.
Godo bandit warlord: I see a few lists running a batterskull - why not have a quick way to go wide and tutor it up?
Maybe all these cards are bad -- just wanting some input as I've found the all in Titan thing isn't really winning as many games as the 4 & 5 drop protection creatures / uncounterable creatures are the one doing work aka stormbreath bs white and chameleon colossus vs black
Ancient Grudge or Shattering Spree/By Force/Vandalblast should be good.
#Ruric Thar, the Unbowed can wreck any combo deck and Beast Within deals with Phyrexian Unlife.
#If they go for the Laboratory Maniac kill Sudden Shock can get them (through Pact of Negation).
2. This is probably an easy match-up, they have no pressure whatsoever and are weak to LD, Beast Within (and Stormbreath Dragon) is very good against any of their PW's.
An early Chalice of the Void can be annoying but not that bad.
Flashfires is really narrow but might work too.
3. Against these decks Thrun, the Last Troll is probably your best card, also cards like Ricochet Trap/Guttural Response (or Vexing Shusher) can help against counterspells.
Trinisphere/Defense Grid (and Ruric Thar, the Unbowed if you can resolve him) can be pretty good here as well.
There is also Choke but it seems unnecessary with Blood Moon.
#Lignify is probably worse than more copies of Beast Within or just Roast.
#Cards like Thrun, the Last Troll and Chameleon Colossus make Great Sable Stag irrelevant.
#Genju of the Spires is bad, Kessig Wolf Run can be used to turn any mana dork into a threat.
http://www.starcitygames.com/events/coverage/4094_71_or_better_modern_decklists.html
I'm not sure about Garruk, Primal Hunter over Nissa, Vital Force (which is the better PW imho) though.
Also, wouldn't Obstinate Baloth (also good against discard) be a more efficient stabilization creature against aggro/burn over Thragtusk ?
The 5-drop slot is also rather cloged with the 2x Stormbreath, 2x Garruk and 1x Primal Command already.
Strangely enough the deck runs only 8x turn-1 acceleration pieces (no 2x Birds of Paradise) and 22x lands instead of 21x.
and is very slow and clunky otherwise.
Hard luck on the rest of the matches. Hope that doesn't happen to me this week. I'm thinking of loaning a few Courser to try out in addition to testing my two Hazoret.
Garruk, Primal Hunter allows you to have permnant threats against other midrange decks (the continuously 3/3 beasts)
His draw power is more than Nissa , if you have a Titan, or Strombreath on the field, he draws you more cards, but Nissa can only help you draw 1-2 each turn if you have emblem.
My idea is I think I will change the deck with add some Thrun or birds. I feel the deck is not fast without the mana acclerators.
(what are the reason not running 1-2 copy of Choke those days? It is so good vs blue control decks)
EDH: Xenagos, God of Revels.
If you feel your meta is heavy enough on basic Islands to warrant inclusion of Choke, go ahead and include a few in your sideboard. Just remember Blood Moon removes "Island" from nonbasic Islands, and cuts them off their blue all together, and makes Choke less useful the more nonbasic there are.
I'm also in support of more planeswalkers with the ability to remove creatures. Might try Garruk Relentless until I can get some of the new Chandra.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Yeah, Merfolk are just a hard counter to our main plan of mana denial.
Engineered Explosives out of the board is the key to this matchup. It answers Spreading Seas and lords very cleanly. If they can't kill you and you can't kill them in an alpha-strike keeping it on the battlefield to strand their creatures in hand makes a Monstrosity trigger on Stormbreath Dragon very painful. Beast Within on the land they Spreading Seased is a nice way to trick combat in the midgame.
Bonfire does the same job but not as reliably. Lightning Bolt (or your spot removal of choice) in the SB is excellent.
Spreading Seas hurts on our Utopia Sprawl lands, so keep that in mind if you see a hand with 1 Sprawl and a ton of 5 drops. And don't get greedy by enchanting lands with multiple Sprawl, this opens you up to a blowout Spreading Seas. Keeping them off Islands is nearly impossible, so you'll generally target Mutavault with LD (unless of course they're stuck on 1 blue and you have Moon in hand). You'll likely want to side out cards with heavier colored mana costs as a Fish player will do their best to restrict your access to multiple sources of the same color. Thragtusk is your pal here as it's resistant to Vapor Snag.
3 CHandra seems to play fine for me as well. Possibly because I take the smaller chandra down the first turn most times. After that she doesn't stick around long. Also opponents love to try and kill walkers. #lifegain
Doubling Season is the very pinnacle of winmore, doesn't do anything alone and only makes a few of our bombs cuter.
First, yeah i cut birds from the deck. I used to run 1 birds and 22 land but the birds felt lack luster and didn't do anything. Arbor elf lets you turn 2 4 drop and utopia sprawl doesn't get pushed or bolted. I know that i want to draw at least one 1 drop a game but the cost of drawing them off the top kills me.
Second, garruk primal is WAY better than nissa not close. Nissa can make you lose land drops when animating lands and the draw off land isn't as relevant when we have blood moon out. If you haven't tried garruk primal don't knock it till you try it.
Third, I agree that my 5 drop slot is a little clogged. I was going to put in Chameleon Colossus to help more against death shadow since they seem to have cut bolt.
Fourth, Obstinate Baloth was in the board because the meta call i was making is that burn wasn't going to be popular and lilly of the veil wasn't as popular either. Both cases were right for that tournament and its not a set in stone call either way.
Ill be looking into this forum for more ideas guys. And on the one guy who said i was lucky... i mean you have to be a little bit lucky but i had the best modern Invi record at 8-0 so some skill was involved.
Go ponza!!!