hey guys, how do u deal with UWx control on the draw? It seems once I lose the die roll to Negate, Mana Leak, Remand and Cryptic Command, there is no coming back. They just play a land, pass the turn with all mana up, and wait for your move. Its hideously frustrating knowing you've got 1 move per turn and they're more than ready for it. They know you're a moon deck and beyond their Colonnades and Mystic Gates they start fetching Basics, and concentrate their resources on stopping threats and land destruction and actually let your moon resolve to little effect.
So I lose game 1, start game 2 and have higher chance of winning, but game 3 I'm on the back foot again. This match feels so die-roll dependent.
I've thought about having Boseiju in the side, but I've never seen anyone resorting to that. Apart from having a Beast Within to throw EOT and then follow up on our own turn, is there any way to play against counterspells?
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
hey guys, how do u deal with UWx control on the draw? It seems once I lose the die roll to Negate, Mana Leak, Remand and Cryptic Command, there is no coming back. They just play a land, pass the turn with all mana up, and wait for your move. Its hideously frustrating knowing you've got 1 move per turn and they're more than ready for it. They know you're a moon deck and beyond their Colonnades and Mystic Gates they start fetching Basics, and concentrate their resources on stopping threats and land destruction and actually let your moon resolve to little effect.
So I lose game 1, start game 2 and have higher chance of winning, but game 3 I'm on the back foot again. This match feels so die-roll dependent.
I've thought about having Boseiju in the side, but I've never seen anyone resorting to that. Apart from having a Beast Within to throw EOT and then follow up on our own turn, is there any way to play against counterspells?
I took my modified Ponza up to WMCQ last year and only faced one WU control deck. It was first round of top 8, so not a sh***y WU control deck. I walked all over him by denying him access to white. Turn 2 / early Moon and / or LD won it for me. Goblin Dark-Dwellers helped too. A control player can only draw so many counters, and I like to think I'm good at drawing them out.
Although, both Thrun and Boseiju are great answers (I think I sided in my one Thrun for game two). I also found myself bringing in a second Stormbreath Dragon against every Wx deck, for obvious reasons.
Prowling Serpopard from Amonkhet might be worth considering for the sideboard.
I am now playing 2 exclusive lists of this deck. One dragon heavy and the other more traditional. The dragon version is slightly better against shadow decks but that deck is just hard to deal with
What's this dragon heavy list look like, if you don't mind.
Has anybody tried to use tooth and nail with R/G Ponza? similar to this deck
1x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Voyaging Satyr
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Blood Moon
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x Stone Rain
4x Tooth and Nail
4x Abundant Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
10x Forest
4x Stomping Ground
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
hey guys, how do u deal with UWx control on the draw? It seems once I lose the die roll to Negate, Mana Leak, Remand and Cryptic Command, there is no coming back. They just play a land, pass the turn with all mana up, and wait for your move. Its hideously frustrating knowing you've got 1 move per turn and they're more than ready for it. They know you're a moon deck and beyond their Colonnades and Mystic Gates they start fetching Basics, and concentrate their resources on stopping threats and land destruction and actually let your moon resolve to little effect.
So I lose game 1, start game 2 and have higher chance of winning, but game 3 I'm on the back foot again. This match feels so die-roll dependent.
I've thought about having Boseiju in the side, but I've never seen anyone resorting to that. Apart from having a Beast Within to throw EOT and then follow up on our own turn, is there any way to play against counterspells?
I took my modified Ponza up to WMCQ last year and only faced one WU control deck. It was first round of top 8, so not a sh***y WU control deck. I walked all over him by denying him access to white. Turn 2 / early Moon and / or LD won it for me. Goblin Dark-Dwellers helped too. A control player can only draw so many counters, and I like to think I'm good at drawing them out.
Did you win the die roll? My last 4 out of 6 matches against UW went basically: Lose die roll, get countered and snap-countered until opponent hits Snap-Cryptic Command mana. Then planeswalker or whatever wincon.
Its great if you can get them off white, but its the U thats the huge problem for me. They run an abundance of islands and Moon's ability to lock is significantly reduced. Not even that hard for them to grab a plains, either, so long as they draw a flooded strand/plains they can ignore moon. So on the draw I typically get leaked/negated the 2nd and 3rd turn, and then on 4th turn it goes quickly downhill as the opponent upgrades to cryptic commands, and then it becomes snap-negate or snap cryptic. On more than 1 occasion my Utopia sprawl start is heavily blunted by Spreading Seas. Then my turn 2 consists laying a land and passing and watching as my opponent goes on to lay the third land unmolested and leaves 2 mana up for me, while suspending AV or serum visions to set up more land draws.
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Another card that can be good here (if you can resolve it) is Trinisphere which can severly tax them (making Snapcaster Mage barely playable) and make them play inefficiently.
Another card that can be good here (if you can resolve it) is Trinisphere which can severly tax them (making Snapcaster Mage barely playable) and make them play inefficiently.
That sounds great in theory, but its also a turn 2 play at earliest for us. Which means 2 mana untapped on the opponent side waiting to Negate/Mana Leak my spells. This match up is so frustrating that I started thinking of Boseiju. Sigh, more damage to the wallet again...
And then Boseiju is not without its risks either. This deck really wants to see 2 green mana sources from lands turn 2 for the broken Arbor - Sprawl - 4 mana on turn 2 starts, but Boseiju will reduce that %, although somewhat slightly. Maybe in the sideboard...
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BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
hey guys, how do u deal with UWx control on the draw? It seems once I lose the die roll to Negate, Mana Leak, Remand and Cryptic Command, there is no coming back. They just play a land, pass the turn with all mana up, and wait for your move. Its hideously frustrating knowing you've got 1 move per turn and they're more than ready for it. They know you're a moon deck and beyond their Colonnades and Mystic Gates they start fetching Basics, and concentrate their resources on stopping threats and land destruction and actually let your moon resolve to little effect.
So I lose game 1, start game 2 and have higher chance of winning, but game 3 I'm on the back foot again. This match feels so die-roll dependent.
I've thought about having Boseiju in the side, but I've never seen anyone resorting to that. Apart from having a Beast Within to throw EOT and then follow up on our own turn, is there any way to play against counterspells?
I took my modified Ponza up to WMCQ last year and only faced one WU control deck. It was first round of top 8, so not a sh***y WU control deck. I walked all over him by denying him access to white. Turn 2 / early Moon and / or LD won it for me. Goblin Dark-Dwellers helped too. A control player can only draw so many counters, and I like to think I'm good at drawing them out.
Did you win the die roll? My last 4 out of 6 matches against UW went basically: Lose die roll, get countered and snap-countered until opponent hits Snap-Cryptic Command mana. Then planeswalker or whatever wincon.
Its great if you can get them off white, but its the U thats the huge problem for me. They run an abundance of islands and Moon's ability to lock is significantly reduced. Not even that hard for them to grab a plains, either, so long as they draw a flooded strand/plains they can ignore moon. So on the draw I typically get leaked/negated the 2nd and 3rd turn, and then on 4th turn it goes quickly downhill as the opponent upgrades to cryptic commands, and then it becomes snap-negate or snap cryptic. On more than 1 occasion my Utopia sprawl start is heavily blunted by Spreading Seas. Then my turn 2 consists laying a land and passing and watching as my opponent goes on to lay the third land unmolested and leaves 2 mana up for me, while suspending AV or serum visions to set up more land draws.
It doesn't matter much who was on the draw, I walked all over him in both games, which means I was on the draw at least once. I never saw his decklist, but I get the feeling it was removal heavy, and counter light. That and almost none of my opponents at the tournament seemed to know how Ponza worked.
The trick I've learned about counter spells, you should bait them out with minor / medium threats. If you can get at least one out, 9/10 times you have the advantage. Thrun and Amonkhet's cat snake help here as they can't be countered in the first place. I'd even go so far as to lower the count of my finishers to board in more minor / medium threats (never remove Moon though).
Here's the list I played (posting with my phone, so no fancy links, etc.):
Anyone have advice for storm? I'm like 1-5 against it so far. Frustrating.
I agree with D90Dennis14, Trinisphere, and Thorn of Amethyst is "amazing" right now. Completely destroys decks like Storm, Ad Nauseam, and Cheeri0s right now. I'm surprised that those cards aren't being used as much lately because of their power.
Also, correct me if I'm wrong but trinisphere comes after cost reduction in step order, so anything affected by electromancer type effects is still 3 cost.
ok so I've been playing on modo exclusively with this deck and recently went to an fnm with it. I went 3-1 with my loss coming in the first round againts death shadow. The match was actually really wierd. I don't think I shuffled very well as game 1 I had 2 sprawls 1 arbor elf some land. I didn't draw any LD or threats just dorks and land. Game 2 I was able to stone rain on 2 but still only had dorks and lands.
I shuffled really well and went on to round 2 where i faced sun and moon. Game 1 they turn 1 blood moon which bothers me none, I cast chandra torch on 2 and run away with the game. game 2 I acid moss on turn 2 and turn 3 leaving them with 1 land and they dont draw any more until the turn right before i win with a stormbreath.
Round 3 I play against abzan coco. Hes on play and plays a birds on 1. then a hierarch on 2. I cast blood moon on turn 2 and he doesn't fetch in response. He then casts a finks. I cast a stone rain on his basic and untaps and cocos into the combo. Game 2 I blood moon him again early and bonefire away a couple dorks. At one point he goes for combo and i sudden shock to stop it. I acid moss a basic then take the game with a batterskull. Game 3 I hit all the LD early and keep him off mana, he has no dorks this game and It ends up being pretty quick with stormbreath and monsterous.
Round 4 I play Jund midrange. I mull to 5 and win off the back of an early bloodmoon that I drew the turn after he inquisitions. Game 2 He mulls to 6 but a n early blood moon gets me too far ahead.
Over all really likes it. Playing it with cardboard for the first time was nice. I think the DS matchup could have gone a lot better if I had similar hands to the rest of the night.
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So I lose game 1, start game 2 and have higher chance of winning, but game 3 I'm on the back foot again. This match feels so die-roll dependent.
I've thought about having Boseiju in the side, but I've never seen anyone resorting to that. Apart from having a Beast Within to throw EOT and then follow up on our own turn, is there any way to play against counterspells?
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
You can bring in Defense Grid if you want.
I took my modified Ponza up to WMCQ last year and only faced one WU control deck. It was first round of top 8, so not a sh***y WU control deck. I walked all over him by denying him access to white. Turn 2 / early Moon and / or LD won it for me. Goblin Dark-Dwellers helped too. A control player can only draw so many counters, and I like to think I'm good at drawing them out.
Although, both Thrun and Boseiju are great answers (I think I sided in my one Thrun for game two). I also found myself bringing in a second Stormbreath Dragon against every Wx deck, for obvious reasons.
Prowling Serpopard from Amonkhet might be worth considering for the sideboard.
https://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/608040#paper
1x Acidic Slime
4x Arbor Elf
1x Emrakul, the Aeons Torn
4x Voyaging Satyr
1x Xenagos, God of Revels
3x Garruk Wildspeaker
4x Blood Moon
4x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x Stone Rain
4x Tooth and Nail
4x Abundant Growth
4x Utopia Sprawl
10x Forest
4x Stomping Ground
4x Windswept Heath
4x Wooded Foothills
Did you win the die roll? My last 4 out of 6 matches against UW went basically: Lose die roll, get countered and snap-countered until opponent hits Snap-Cryptic Command mana. Then planeswalker or whatever wincon.
Its great if you can get them off white, but its the U thats the huge problem for me. They run an abundance of islands and Moon's ability to lock is significantly reduced. Not even that hard for them to grab a plains, either, so long as they draw a flooded strand/plains they can ignore moon. So on the draw I typically get leaked/negated the 2nd and 3rd turn, and then on 4th turn it goes quickly downhill as the opponent upgrades to cryptic commands, and then it becomes snap-negate or snap cryptic. On more than 1 occasion my Utopia sprawl start is heavily blunted by Spreading Seas. Then my turn 2 consists laying a land and passing and watching as my opponent goes on to lay the third land unmolested and leaves 2 mana up for me, while suspending AV or serum visions to set up more land draws.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
That sounds great in theory, but its also a turn 2 play at earliest for us. Which means 2 mana untapped on the opponent side waiting to Negate/Mana Leak my spells. This match up is so frustrating that I started thinking of Boseiju. Sigh, more damage to the wallet again...
And then Boseiju is not without its risks either. This deck really wants to see 2 green mana sources from lands turn 2 for the broken Arbor - Sprawl - 4 mana on turn 2 starts, but Boseiju will reduce that %, although somewhat slightly. Maybe in the sideboard...
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
It doesn't matter much who was on the draw, I walked all over him in both games, which means I was on the draw at least once. I never saw his decklist, but I get the feeling it was removal heavy, and counter light. That and almost none of my opponents at the tournament seemed to know how Ponza worked.
The trick I've learned about counter spells, you should bait them out with minor / medium threats. If you can get at least one out, 9/10 times you have the advantage. Thrun and Amonkhet's cat snake help here as they can't be countered in the first place. I'd even go so far as to lower the count of my finishers to board in more minor / medium threats (never remove Moon though).
Here's the list I played (posting with my phone, so no fancy links, etc.):
Main Deck (60 cards)
Creatures (16)
4xArbor Elf
1xBirds of Paradise
3xGoblin Dark-Dwellers
3xInferno Titan
2xObstinate Baloth
1xStormbreath Dragon
2xThragtusk
Sorceries (11)
3xMizzium Mortars
3xMwonvuli Acid-Moss
1xPrimal Command
4xStone Rain
Instants (3)
2xBeast Within
1xLightning Bolt
Planeswalkers (1)
1xChandra, Flamecaller
Enchantments (8)
4xBlood Moon
4xUtopia Sprawl
Land (21)
1xCinder Glade
9xForest
3xMisty Rainforest
1xMountain
2xStomping Ground
1xWindswept Heath
4xWooded Foothills
Sideboard (15 cards)
Creatures (3)
2xKitchen Finks
1xThrun, the Last Troll
Sorceries (4)
2xAnger of the Gods
1xBoom // Bust
1xCreeping Corrosion
Instants (6)
2xAncient Grudge
1xDismember
1xNatural State
2xSudden Shock
Artifacts (2)
1xEngineered Explosives
1xRelic of Progenitus
Relic of Progenitus to clear the GY is also good.
I agree with D90Dennis14, Trinisphere, and Thorn of Amethyst is "amazing" right now. Completely destroys decks like Storm, Ad Nauseam, and Cheeri0s right now. I'm surprised that those cards aren't being used as much lately because of their power.
It should be good against anything (except for "Dredge" I guess) as long as you keep them under 3 lands with your LD spells.
I shuffled really well and went on to round 2 where i faced sun and moon. Game 1 they turn 1 blood moon which bothers me none, I cast chandra torch on 2 and run away with the game. game 2 I acid moss on turn 2 and turn 3 leaving them with 1 land and they dont draw any more until the turn right before i win with a stormbreath.
Round 3 I play against abzan coco. Hes on play and plays a birds on 1. then a hierarch on 2. I cast blood moon on turn 2 and he doesn't fetch in response. He then casts a finks. I cast a stone rain on his basic and untaps and cocos into the combo. Game 2 I blood moon him again early and bonefire away a couple dorks. At one point he goes for combo and i sudden shock to stop it. I acid moss a basic then take the game with a batterskull. Game 3 I hit all the LD early and keep him off mana, he has no dorks this game and It ends up being pretty quick with stormbreath and monsterous.
Round 4 I play Jund midrange. I mull to 5 and win off the back of an early bloodmoon that I drew the turn after he inquisitions. Game 2 He mulls to 6 but a n early blood moon gets me too far ahead.
Over all really likes it. Playing it with cardboard for the first time was nice. I think the DS matchup could have gone a lot better if I had similar hands to the rest of the night.