So it is now time to make a report. Been play testing a good amount since the unban and have moved some cards around a few times due to the hits with BBE. While I haven’t done like some and actually log it on a spreadsheet I will just provide my anecdotal evidence and experience.
First is BBE is the best card some times but we need to not just play fast and loose with her, meaning the crap shoot isn’t always the best option depending on board state and hand. Unfortunately I have hit Elf and Sprawl more times than I would like but sometimes it does help the plan move along.
I think not playing Acid Moss should take out ALL 6 drops period. When I built my list that was part of my hypothesis and it is the correct line. I have ended more games with only access to 5 mana and thus I am very confident we don’t need the 6 drops anymore (people are getting better at playing cards to stop the ramp ie spreading seas the sprawled land or simply bolt or pushing the elf).
I will post current list below (sorry no link as I am using my phone to post):
Sideboard (15)
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abrade
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Beast Within
1 Firespout
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Trinisphere
1 Choke
Some things of note. Slagstorm is the real deal. The interaction between it and BBE is absolutely absurd. If no creatures on board the opponent takes 6 much like they would if you hit a Bolt (which is what some list are running instead in this slot), if they have a board you wipe it and still do 3 damage with BBE. Yes it isn’t instant speed but I haven’t had an issue with that thus far. Also I have wrecked Jace and Lilliana decks with the redirect as well.
Before I was on 7 LD spells and initially I went to 6 (only played 2 Molten Rain instead of 3) as I was scared of not being able to hit 2 red on turn 2 especially since I don’t run birds but I haven’t had any issues and went up to 3.
I thought putting Kitchen Finks in the main was going to be great to cascade into. I was unimpressed to say the least so it went back to the board.
At this point if you aren’t running Hazoret you are probably wrong. This card is seeing play in Legacy now as well in the “Dragon Stompy” decks.
Nissa has also been really impressive in just setting up the early game.
Last night I went 4-0:
Skred Red (2-0): Opponent couldn’t handle T2 Chandra G1. G2 BBE into Slagstorm took care of his only threat of Chandra and he flooded out the rest of the game.
Jeskai Control (1-0): G1 T2 Moon, he scoops the turn after and says doesn’t want to play tilted for the rest of the night and just gives me it 2-0.
Affinity (2-1): G1 goes like you would expect and I get steam rolled. G2 I saw my 1 of sideboard card in firespout to wipe his board of Skurge, Memnite, and Overseer with 1 counter on each. I hit Thragtusk to stabilize and won from Hazoret and Tusk beats. G3 saw Slagstorm and fought though a Etched Champion because he swong and I was able to topdeck a Hazoret to close it out. In the 2 last games only saw 1 sideboard card. Hard fought matchup for sure.
Affinity (2-1) same verse as the last: Honestly these games were easier as I saw multiple sideboard cards in games 2 and 3. Beast within his Plating felt so good and having an Abrade along with Grudge in the yard from Turn 1 Thoughtseize meant my T2 was able to take out both Skruge and Pest.
Affinity (2-1): G1 goes like you would expect and I get steam rolled. G2 I saw my 1 of sideboard card in firespout to wipe his board of Skurge, Memnite, and Overseer with 1 counter on each. I hit Thragtusk to stabilize and won from Hazoret and Tusk beats. G3 saw Slagstorm and fought though a Etched Champion because he swong and I was able to topdeck a Hazoret to close it out. In the 2 last games only saw 1 sideboard card. Hard fought matchup for sure.
Why firespout though? Its a total dud if cascaded into, right? Isn't Anger or maybe a third Slagstorm better?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
You are 100% right about firespout being a nonbo in the board with BBE. It should have been the 3rd Slagstorm. Thank you for reminding me to make the swap.
I bought 3 with every intention of taking out the firespout as I ran 3 of those in the board prior to the unban.
Hazoret is nothing comparing to Inferno Titan. It's a big mistake not playing him.
Also Nissa is useless in general, but especially when you don't play Birds and Pia and Kirans.
So I keep climbing Friendly Modern League in MTGO with GR Land Destruction. Played 17 Leagues, overall 7 times 3-2, 6 times 4-1, 2-3, 2 times 1-4 and finally won today, 5-0. Majority of matches I played my own build posted earlier, last 3 leagues played with deck inspired by SCG Open winner.
This is 5-0 list:
I really like this deck. Great interaction between Tireless Trackers and PKN. In a game vs Melira I cleared all his board with PKN, just sacrificing Clues to deal 2 dmg and make Trackers bigger. Trackers are brilliant. They grow insanely fast also providing card advantage. Killed storm on T4 with two fat Trackers.
1 Bird and 22 lands seems ok. No 2nd Bird cause it's so awful topdeck.
1 Dragon is fine. I sided it out more frequently than any other card, but it can be great threat against Wx Control. Won one of games vs UWR Monks with it.
2 Titans are important. Most of long games it's a topdeck that you await most.
Chameleon Colossus won game vs Jund. It can become bigger than Tarmo, and it's hard to remove it for Jund and Shadow decks. Vs Grixis Shadow it's also unblockable.
What else... Nissa is bad. It's a bad topdeck. It's only reasonable when it comes from Elf, but our cards should be great on their own.
And I really like Chandra. It's the best red PW in history, and it can a lot. Previously I played 3 of them. Now 2 are ok. +2 removals in deck, that can also kill Things in the Ice and TKS. +mana ramp, always useful. + card advantage, total 6 card advantage cards with 4 Trackers. Ult is also great and I used it a lot of times.
Much has been said about Nissa, Voice. I think in general we can agree that in a vacuum, she's pretty weak and pretty much the reason to run her was that she worked well with PKN. Really if you have 0 copies of PKN, there is not much benefit to running her. I tried to sell her many pages ago on this thread but I didn't have the ammunition to go on; apart from that sweet Voice into PKN synergy, she didn't provide anything else important.
Now though, the addition of 2 staples changes this.
1. Tireless Tracker
2. Bloodbraid Elf
What does Tireless Tracker have to do with PKN? This is an indirect benefit. Tireless tracker is good by herself. That much is established. The clues she makes can serve double duty with PKN. If tracker is removed, a PKN later can convert your stack of clues into a flurry of burn. By increasing the stock of PKN in this deck, Tireless Tracker has indirectly increased the stock of Nissa Voice.
Bloodbraid Elf's interaction with Voice is bit more straightfoward. There are not many 3 cmc planeswalkers worth playing in our colors, and this one, as mentioned above, works well with PKN which works well with Tracker. Taken as a sum, they present quite the party package. Cascading into Voice means you're attacking with a 4/3 or starting a collection of house plants, which isn't terrible since you can eventually swarm any Goyfs or shadows manning the fort.
Nissa's great weakness is perhaps her lack of raw power on her lonesome. Starting a collection of houseplants isn't an amazing thing to be doing in modern. But given the way the deck has evolved, her -2 could prove powerful, and her +1 a way of going wide.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Been lurking for a while. Initially I was very anti BBE in Ponza, but with all the work done here and elsewhere it has become a decent subsection of Ponza. I feel "traditional" Ponza is more a control style that wins off a limited number of big threats, while BBE Ponza is more a midrange value oriented playstyle. Both versions are good in their own rites, but sadly I currently can't afford a set of BBE, so I'm stuck with my GDD build for a while.
We have trouble dealing with Delve threats that effectively cost 1 mana more than we have trouble with CoCo, as Stone Rain can slow down a CoCo immensely, whereas it does very little to Delve threats. Cage is the same; stops CoCo, but doesn't stop Delve, and that's the exact opposite of what we need, IMO.
Relics are great vs Delve and Tarmo. Also card draw option is always good.
Personally I like Cages a lot, cause I hate Coco decks) But it also has antisynergy with Kitchen Finks in our sideboard, do nothing vs delve/tarmo... So Relics are better choice.
I am presently siding 2 copies of Relic and 2 copies of Cage, but that may be more down to my local meta. I find they are both useful cards in multiple match-ups and worth the 4 slots total.
Much has been said about Nissa, Voice. I think in general we can agree that in a vacuum, she's pretty weak and pretty much the reason to run her was that she worked well with PKN. Really if you have 0 copies of PKN, there is not much benefit to running her. I tried to sell her many pages ago on this thread but I didn't have the ammunition to go on; apart from that sweet Voice into PKN synergy, she didn't provide anything else important.
Now though, the addition of 2 staples changes this.
1. Tireless Tracker
2. Bloodbraid Elf
What does Tireless Tracker have to do with PKN? This is an indirect benefit. Tireless tracker is good by herself. That much is established. The clues she makes can serve double duty with PKN. If tracker is removed, a PKN later can convert your stack of clues into a flurry of burn. By increasing the stock of PKN in this deck, Tireless Tracker has indirectly increased the stock of Nissa Voice.
Bloodbraid Elf's interaction with Voice is bit more straightfoward. There are not many 3 cmc planeswalkers worth playing in our colors, and this one, as mentioned above, works well with PKN which works well with Tracker. Taken as a sum, they present quite the party package. Cascading into Voice means you're attacking with a 4/3 or starting a collection of house plants, which isn't terrible since you can eventually swarm any Goyfs or shadows manning the fort.
Nissa's great weakness is perhaps her lack of raw power on her lonesome. Starting a collection of houseplants isn't an amazing thing to be doing in modern. But given the way the deck has evolved, her -2 could prove powerful, and her +1 a way of going wide.
Agreed. I was pretty hesitant to experiment with Nissa at first, but she's quickly become an all-star for me as of late. She's barely a mediocre PW on her own, but she can escalate our board state fairly quickly when surrounded by complementary pieces and left unchecked. Worth noting that I run Birds/Nobles, so exalted triggers have played a key role in the games where she's won me games.
So I keep climbing Friendly Modern League in MTGO with GR Land Destruction. Played 17 Leagues, overall 7 times 3-2, 6 times 4-1, 2-3, 2 times 1-4 and finally won today, 5-0. Majority of matches I played my own build posted earlier, last 3 leagues played with deck inspired by SCG Open winner.
This is 5-0 list:
I really like this deck. Great interaction between Tireless Trackers and PKN. In a game vs Melira I cleared all his board with PKN, just sacrificing Clues to deal 2 dmg and make Trackers bigger. Trackers are brilliant. They grow insanely fast also providing card advantage. Killed storm on T4 with two fat Trackers.
1 Bird and 22 lands seems ok. No 2nd Bird cause it's so awful topdeck.
1 Dragon is fine. I sided it out more frequently than any other card, but it can be great threat against Wx Control. Won one of games vs UWR Monks with it.
2 Titans are important. Most of long games it's a topdeck that you await most.
Chameleon Colossus won game vs Jund. It can become bigger than Tarmo, and it's hard to remove it for Jund and Shadow decks. Vs Grixis Shadow it's also unblockable.
What else... Nissa is bad. It's a bad topdeck. It's only reasonable when it comes from Elf, but our cards should be great on their own.
And I really like Chandra. It's the best red PW in history, and it can a lot. Previously I played 3 of them. Now 2 are ok. +2 removals in deck, that can also kill Things in the Ice and TKS. +mana ramp, always useful. + card advantage, total 6 card advantage cards with 4 Trackers. Ult is also great and I used it a lot of times.
Hi there, I just have a few questions:
Did you really get any use of Kessi? Cause a lot of people just said it got useless or they did not really use it at all. I also play bolt - but would you swap it for a mass removal? I'm not sure of that kind a change.
So it is now time to make a report. Been play testing a good amount since the unban and have moved some cards around a few times due to the hits with BBE. While I haven’t done like some and actually log it on a spreadsheet I will just provide my anecdotal evidence and experience.
First is BBE is the best card some times but we need to not just play fast and loose with her, meaning the crap shoot isn’t always the best option depending on board state and hand. Unfortunately I have hit Elf and Sprawl more times than I would like but sometimes it does help the plan move along.
I think not playing Acid Moss should take out ALL 6 drops period. When I built my list that was part of my hypothesis and it is the correct line. I have ended more games with only access to 5 mana and thus I am very confident we don’t need the 6 drops anymore (people are getting better at playing cards to stop the ramp ie spreading seas the sprawled land or simply bolt or pushing the elf).
I will post current list below (sorry no link as I am using my phone to post):
Sideboard (15)
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abrade
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Beast Within
1 Firespout
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Trinisphere
1 Choke
Some things of note. Slagstorm is the real deal. The interaction between it and BBE is absolutely absurd. If no creatures on board the opponent takes 6 much like they would if you hit a Bolt (which is what some list are running instead in this slot), if they have a board you wipe it and still do 3 damage with BBE. Yes it isn’t instant speed but I haven’t had an issue with that thus far. Also I have wrecked Jace and Lilliana decks with the redirect as well.
Before I was on 7 LD spells and initially I went to 6 (only played 2 Molten Rain instead of 3) as I was scared of not being able to hit 2 red on turn 2 especially since I don’t run birds but I haven’t had any issues and went up to 3.
I thought putting Kitchen Finks in the main was going to be great to cascade into. I was unimpressed to say the least so it went back to the board.
At this point if you aren’t running Hazoret you are probably wrong. This card is seeing play in Legacy now as well in the “Dragon Stompy” decks.
Nissa has also been really impressive in just setting up the early game.
Last night I went 4-0:
Skred Red (2-0): Opponent couldn’t handle T2 Chandra G1. G2 BBE into Slagstorm took care of his only threat of Chandra and he flooded out the rest of the game.
Jeskai Control (1-0): G1 T2 Moon, he scoops the turn after and says doesn’t want to play tilted for the rest of the night and just gives me it 2-0.
Affinity (2-1): G1 goes like you would expect and I get steam rolled. G2 I saw my 1 of sideboard card in firespout to wipe his board of Skurge, Memnite, and Overseer with 1 counter on each. I hit Thragtusk to stabilize and won from Hazoret and Tusk beats. G3 saw Slagstorm and fought though a Etched Champion because he swong and I was able to topdeck a Hazoret to close it out. In the 2 last games only saw 1 sideboard card. Hard fought matchup for sure.
Affinity (2-1) same verse as the last: Honestly these games were easier as I saw multiple sideboard cards in games 2 and 3. Beast within his Plating felt so good and having an Abrade along with Grudge in the yard from Turn 1 Thoughtseize meant my T2 was able to take out both Skruge and Pest.
Same question: Kessi? Yes or No?
And: how many games have you played at the moment? Is Hazoret as good as it sounds? Stormbreath is quite nice but does it support Hazoret? Wouldn't it be better to play something with lower casting cost to get rid of it faster?
Hazoret is nothing comparing to Inferno Titan. It's a big mistake not playing him.
Also Nissa is useless in general, but especially when you don't play Birds and Pia and Kirans.
While there is some backing of Nissa already in recent posts let’s discuss Hazoret vs Inferno Titan.
Hazoret has haste, Titan doesn’t. This is probably this biggest key difference in our current meta of Jace decks. Even if your opponent pluses Jace, an empty board means Hazoret can take him out while in that same situation with Titan Jace lives to bounce Titan if they draw a counterspell or brainstorm possibly into more answers.
Pinned behind an Ensnaring Bridge Hazoret can still do damage to your opponent while Titan just sits there to collect dust.
Titan can shoot down small creatures which does remove pesky chump blockers (best thing going for Titan). The problem here is anything with more than 4 toughness still lives and will chump the Titan.
Titan can pump himself but again a 4 toughness creature can chump block which removes this positive for Titan.
If staring down a 6/7 Goyf or large Shadow the Inferno Titan can’t really do anything yet the Hazoret can block all day long, or in the case of having a Kessig Wolf Run you can pump Hazoret and your creature lives while theirs would die vs just trading with the Titan.
Some games you never get to 6 mana (luck of the draw) so Hazoret being 4 mana means you will be able to cast it more often along with being able to come down earlier.
Inferno Titan can’t do anything with a bad top deck that turn like drawing one of our 1 mana ramp spells whereas Hazoret changes it into damage.
If you feel I missed something about Titan that should be further explored please add it to the discussion.
While KWR isn’t crucial to the deck giving a creature trample alone is pretty big. It helps with in dealing with chump blockers to get through damage. Is it a colorless land? Yep it is! But 1 out of the 21-22 lands is not a deal breaker to me.
With the current list I posted I have play about 30+ games but have been on Ponza for a few months now as my local meta hated out burn (my deck of choice) with stuff like playing main deck Leyline of Sanctity and Kor Firewalker along with people playing Soul Sisters. Since people didn’t want me to play magic I didn’t feel bad about blowing up their lands so they couldn’t play magic either.
I, much like some in here, was hesitant about Hazoret but she is the deal. It took like only 2 games of me seeing here before I was like yep this card is better than even I thought.
I am not sure what you mean about playing Stormbreath in the same deck as Hazoret though I have seen people in person and in this forum not realize that Hazoret stipulates 1 or less so you can keep 1 card in hand no problem.
I originally thought she was going to be clunky and I was going to have cards in hand and it would be useless. This isn’t the case really at all in actual play testing.
It is similar to that of Tireless Tracker. I was like that card from standard that literally does to every piece of removal is good? No Way! Well in testing the card out it is really strong and should be a 3 of at least.
Hopefully this answers the questions you had and I am willing to help answer any other questions.
I still don't buy the argument for KWR. Card is brutally bad and does not belong in this deck. If you're so concerned about wanting to trample through, just play Rhonas. He has the added bonus of being able to attack and makes more of your creatures threats.
I am, however, on board with Hazoret (have been for months now). I cut the dragons (dumb beater that really is not what it used to be) and only kept 1 titan, begrudgingly because I have to concede that it can be very good, you just don't want to draw it often, if at all.
Remember that slagstorm won't be able to hit planeswalkers anymore. Minor interaction, but not irrelevant. Same thing for Chandra's +1.
I just feel weird playing a nonbasic for any function in a blood moon deck. Nissa Voice is my stand in "Gavony Township". Or in place of KWR u could literally run just any threat (a flying hasty threat like stormbae, if blockers is a concern). Its not like u need KWR for that colorless mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
Did you really get any use of Kessi? Cause a lot of people just said it got useless or they did not really use it at all. I also play bolt - but would you swap it for a mass removal? I'm not sure of that kind a change.
I used KWR many times for the past 2 years in this deck. It is great in situations when opp for example cleared the board with oblivion stone, your Moon died, Kitchen Finks died and resurrected, you add 5-6 attack to it and win. =) Also it is great to make dorks a threat. I think 1-of is ok, that it's colorless doesn't matter cause if it's the only land in your hand you should mulligan in any case (never keep 1-lander!). If not it's ok.
On Hazoret:
4 Tireless Trackers are not best friends with Haz. Now I often find myself having 3+ cards in hand even in lategame, and even if they are lands I don't want to discard them. Cause it's better to play them to get value from TT, to create Clues for card draw, make TT bigger and sac them for PKN.
Also it's worse than Dragon cause it has no evade ability like flying. Anything can chumpblock Haz. If you want blocker vs Tarmo and especially Fish/Tasigur/Shadow - put Chameleon Colossus in your side. It's almost as hard to remove + it has evasion vs black + it can become very-very big.
Quote from the n00b king »
Remember that slagstorm won't be able to hit planeswalkers anymore. Minor interaction, but not irrelevant. Same thing for Chandra's +1.
That's very sad. I liked killing Liliana with Chandra's +1 so much...
I don't think there's anything with with running the Hazo and tracker together. Tracker doesn't make you draw cards; she investigates, and there's a clear difference there. We're typically cracking clues end step, otherwise when we're desperate for cards if mainphase, meaning Hazo isn't there.
To be clear; my point is that WHEN the draw happens if purely under our control. Tracker is magnificent against Discard strategies for this reason. If you have Haz, then crack the clue after u swing. It's that simple. It's not like we're a reactive deck that wants information on what our clues will be.
That being said, Stormbae ends games in 2 turns if you have the mana, which is why she's bae. Hazoret still needs to connect at least 3 times. For players dropping Acid-moss, you may wish to consider that Haz will be a shorter clock when you can't make Stormbae monstrous.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
First is BBE is the best card some times but we need to not just play fast and loose with her, meaning the crap shoot isn’t always the best option depending on board state and hand. Unfortunately I have hit Elf and Sprawl more times than I would like but sometimes it does help the plan move along.
I think not playing Acid Moss should take out ALL 6 drops period. When I built my list that was part of my hypothesis and it is the correct line. I have ended more games with only access to 5 mana and thus I am very confident we don’t need the 6 drops anymore (people are getting better at playing cards to stop the ramp ie spreading seas the sprawled land or simply bolt or pushing the elf).
I will post current list below (sorry no link as I am using my phone to post):
Ponza with BBE:
Maindeck (60)
4 Arbor Elf
1 Courser of Kruphix
3 Tireless Tracker
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thragtusk
1 Nissa, Voice of Zendikar
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Molten Rain
1 Primal Command
2 Slagstorm
4 Stone Rain
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
1 Cinder Glade
8 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Sideboard (15)
2 Kitchen Finks
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Abrade
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Beast Within
1 Firespout
1 Fracturing Gust
2 Relic of Progenitus
3 Trinisphere
1 Choke
Some things of note. Slagstorm is the real deal. The interaction between it and BBE is absolutely absurd. If no creatures on board the opponent takes 6 much like they would if you hit a Bolt (which is what some list are running instead in this slot), if they have a board you wipe it and still do 3 damage with BBE. Yes it isn’t instant speed but I haven’t had an issue with that thus far. Also I have wrecked Jace and Lilliana decks with the redirect as well.
Before I was on 7 LD spells and initially I went to 6 (only played 2 Molten Rain instead of 3) as I was scared of not being able to hit 2 red on turn 2 especially since I don’t run birds but I haven’t had any issues and went up to 3.
I thought putting Kitchen Finks in the main was going to be great to cascade into. I was unimpressed to say the least so it went back to the board.
At this point if you aren’t running Hazoret you are probably wrong. This card is seeing play in Legacy now as well in the “Dragon Stompy” decks.
Nissa has also been really impressive in just setting up the early game.
Last night I went 4-0:
Skred Red (2-0): Opponent couldn’t handle T2 Chandra G1. G2 BBE into Slagstorm took care of his only threat of Chandra and he flooded out the rest of the game.
Jeskai Control (1-0): G1 T2 Moon, he scoops the turn after and says doesn’t want to play tilted for the rest of the night and just gives me it 2-0.
Affinity (2-1): G1 goes like you would expect and I get steam rolled. G2 I saw my 1 of sideboard card in firespout to wipe his board of Skurge, Memnite, and Overseer with 1 counter on each. I hit Thragtusk to stabilize and won from Hazoret and Tusk beats. G3 saw Slagstorm and fought though a Etched Champion because he swong and I was able to topdeck a Hazoret to close it out. In the 2 last games only saw 1 sideboard card. Hard fought matchup for sure.
Affinity (2-1) same verse as the last: Honestly these games were easier as I saw multiple sideboard cards in games 2 and 3. Beast within his Plating felt so good and having an Abrade along with Grudge in the yard from Turn 1 Thoughtseize meant my T2 was able to take out both Skruge and Pest.
Wonderful. The salt was real with this one. Congrats on your 4-0.
UG Infect
Modern
UG Infect
GW Infect
EDH
WB Teysa, Orzhov Scion
B Skithiryx, the Blight Dragon
Why firespout though? Its a total dud if cascaded into, right? Isn't Anger or maybe a third Slagstorm better?
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I bought 3 with every intention of taking out the firespout as I ran 3 of those in the board prior to the unban.
Also Nissa is useless in general, but especially when you don't play Birds and Pia and Kirans.
My YouTube MTG Channel
Temur Tooth and Nail (feat. Kiora, Master of the Depths) deck topic and reddit thread.
This is 5-0 list:
9 Forest
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Creatures (19)
4 Arbor Elf
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Inferno Titan
2 Lightning Bolt
Sorceries (7)
3 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
Enchantments (8)
4 Blood Moon
4 Utopia Sprawl
Planeswalkers (2)
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Shatterstorm
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Choke
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thragtusk
1 Chameleon Colossus
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Kitchen Finks
Matches:
2-0 Storm
2-1 Melira
2-0 Jund
2-1 Storm
2-0 UWR Monks
I really like this deck. Great interaction between Tireless Trackers and PKN. In a game vs Melira I cleared all his board with PKN, just sacrificing Clues to deal 2 dmg and make Trackers bigger. Trackers are brilliant. They grow insanely fast also providing card advantage. Killed storm on T4 with two fat Trackers.
1 Bird and 22 lands seems ok. No 2nd Bird cause it's so awful topdeck.
1 Dragon is fine. I sided it out more frequently than any other card, but it can be great threat against Wx Control. Won one of games vs UWR Monks with it.
2 Titans are important. Most of long games it's a topdeck that you await most.
Chameleon Colossus won game vs Jund. It can become bigger than Tarmo, and it's hard to remove it for Jund and Shadow decks. Vs Grixis Shadow it's also unblockable.
What else... Nissa is bad. It's a bad topdeck. It's only reasonable when it comes from Elf, but our cards should be great on their own.
And I really like Chandra. It's the best red PW in history, and it can a lot. Previously I played 3 of them. Now 2 are ok. +2 removals in deck, that can also kill Things in the Ice and TKS. +mana ramp, always useful. + card advantage, total 6 card advantage cards with 4 Trackers. Ult is also great and I used it a lot of times.
My YouTube MTG Channel
Temur Tooth and Nail (feat. Kiora, Master of the Depths) deck topic and reddit thread.
Now though, the addition of 2 staples changes this.
1. Tireless Tracker
2. Bloodbraid Elf
What does Tireless Tracker have to do with PKN? This is an indirect benefit. Tireless tracker is good by herself. That much is established. The clues she makes can serve double duty with PKN. If tracker is removed, a PKN later can convert your stack of clues into a flurry of burn. By increasing the stock of PKN in this deck, Tireless Tracker has indirectly increased the stock of Nissa Voice.
Bloodbraid Elf's interaction with Voice is bit more straightfoward. There are not many 3 cmc planeswalkers worth playing in our colors, and this one, as mentioned above, works well with PKN which works well with Tracker. Taken as a sum, they present quite the party package. Cascading into Voice means you're attacking with a 4/3 or starting a collection of house plants, which isn't terrible since you can eventually swarm any Goyfs or shadows manning the fort.
Nissa's great weakness is perhaps her lack of raw power on her lonesome. Starting a collection of houseplants isn't an amazing thing to be doing in modern. But given the way the deck has evolved, her -2 could prove powerful, and her +1 a way of going wide.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
URStormRU
GRTitanshift[mana]RG/mana]
Personally I like Cages a lot, cause I hate Coco decks) But it also has antisynergy with Kitchen Finks in our sideboard, do nothing vs delve/tarmo... So Relics are better choice.
My YouTube MTG Channel
Temur Tooth and Nail (feat. Kiora, Master of the Depths) deck topic and reddit thread.
Agreed. I was pretty hesitant to experiment with Nissa at first, but she's quickly become an all-star for me as of late. She's barely a mediocre PW on her own, but she can escalate our board state fairly quickly when surrounded by complementary pieces and left unchecked. Worth noting that I run Birds/Nobles, so exalted triggers have played a key role in the games where she's won me games.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Hi there, I just have a few questions:
Did you really get any use of Kessi? Cause a lot of people just said it got useless or they did not really use it at all. I also play bolt - but would you swap it for a mass removal? I'm not sure of that kind a change.
Same question: Kessi? Yes or No?
And: how many games have you played at the moment? Is Hazoret as good as it sounds? Stormbreath is quite nice but does it support Hazoret? Wouldn't it be better to play something with lower casting cost to get rid of it faster?
While there is some backing of Nissa already in recent posts let’s discuss Hazoret vs Inferno Titan.
Hazoret has haste, Titan doesn’t. This is probably this biggest key difference in our current meta of Jace decks. Even if your opponent pluses Jace, an empty board means Hazoret can take him out while in that same situation with Titan Jace lives to bounce Titan if they draw a counterspell or brainstorm possibly into more answers.
Pinned behind an Ensnaring Bridge Hazoret can still do damage to your opponent while Titan just sits there to collect dust.
Titan can shoot down small creatures which does remove pesky chump blockers (best thing going for Titan). The problem here is anything with more than 4 toughness still lives and will chump the Titan.
Titan can pump himself but again a 4 toughness creature can chump block which removes this positive for Titan.
If staring down a 6/7 Goyf or large Shadow the Inferno Titan can’t really do anything yet the Hazoret can block all day long, or in the case of having a Kessig Wolf Run you can pump Hazoret and your creature lives while theirs would die vs just trading with the Titan.
Some games you never get to 6 mana (luck of the draw) so Hazoret being 4 mana means you will be able to cast it more often along with being able to come down earlier.
Inferno Titan can’t do anything with a bad top deck that turn like drawing one of our 1 mana ramp spells whereas Hazoret changes it into damage.
If you feel I missed something about Titan that should be further explored please add it to the discussion.
With the current list I posted I have play about 30+ games but have been on Ponza for a few months now as my local meta hated out burn (my deck of choice) with stuff like playing main deck Leyline of Sanctity and Kor Firewalker along with people playing Soul Sisters. Since people didn’t want me to play magic I didn’t feel bad about blowing up their lands so they couldn’t play magic either.
I, much like some in here, was hesitant about Hazoret but she is the deal. It took like only 2 games of me seeing here before I was like yep this card is better than even I thought.
I am not sure what you mean about playing Stormbreath in the same deck as Hazoret though I have seen people in person and in this forum not realize that Hazoret stipulates 1 or less so you can keep 1 card in hand no problem.
I originally thought she was going to be clunky and I was going to have cards in hand and it would be useless. This isn’t the case really at all in actual play testing.
It is similar to that of Tireless Tracker. I was like that card from standard that literally does to every piece of removal is good? No Way! Well in testing the card out it is really strong and should be a 3 of at least.
Hopefully this answers the questions you had and I am willing to help answer any other questions.
I am, however, on board with Hazoret (have been for months now). I cut the dragons (dumb beater that really is not what it used to be) and only kept 1 titan, begrudgingly because I have to concede that it can be very good, you just don't want to draw it often, if at all.
Remember that slagstorm won't be able to hit planeswalkers anymore. Minor interaction, but not irrelevant. Same thing for Chandra's +1.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
I used KWR many times for the past 2 years in this deck. It is great in situations when opp for example cleared the board with oblivion stone, your Moon died, Kitchen Finks died and resurrected, you add 5-6 attack to it and win. =) Also it is great to make dorks a threat. I think 1-of is ok, that it's colorless doesn't matter cause if it's the only land in your hand you should mulligan in any case (never keep 1-lander!). If not it's ok.
On Hazoret:
4 Tireless Trackers are not best friends with Haz. Now I often find myself having 3+ cards in hand even in lategame, and even if they are lands I don't want to discard them. Cause it's better to play them to get value from TT, to create Clues for card draw, make TT bigger and sac them for PKN.
Also it's worse than Dragon cause it has no evade ability like flying. Anything can chumpblock Haz. If you want blocker vs Tarmo and especially Fish/Tasigur/Shadow - put Chameleon Colossus in your side. It's almost as hard to remove + it has evasion vs black + it can become very-very big.
That's very sad. I liked killing Liliana with Chandra's +1 so much...
My YouTube MTG Channel
Temur Tooth and Nail (feat. Kiora, Master of the Depths) deck topic and reddit thread.
To be clear; my point is that WHEN the draw happens if purely under our control. Tracker is magnificent against Discard strategies for this reason. If you have Haz, then crack the clue after u swing. It's that simple. It's not like we're a reactive deck that wants information on what our clues will be.
That being said, Stormbae ends games in 2 turns if you have the mana, which is why she's bae. Hazoret still needs to connect at least 3 times. For players dropping Acid-moss, you may wish to consider that Haz will be a shorter clock when you can't make Stormbae monstrous.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR