Two different ponza versions made the 5-0 decklist posting for MTGO (both ran 4 BBE)- neither of these are mine but I wanted to share them here to start some more discussion:
This first version is more of a traditional list with the high end threats but with 4 molten rain in the mainboard for extra BBE hits.
The second is more of what I expect to see more in the future for ponza- lower to the ground, more aggressive version of the deck with overall less mana accelerants, slightly less high end threats, but a lot of built in resilience and grind potential with 4x tracker, 4x BBE, and 2x chandra.
This is starting to lean to more of a "G/R goodstuff" list than traditional ponza. It makes more sense to me because the power level of each card is much higher in a vacuum than old ponza lists- modern is a brutal, fast, and disruptive format, and having your deck still be able to function when things don't go completely according to plan is important. Durdling for too long also gives your opponent the opportunity to get back in games you should be winning. There's no doubt that ponza lists need to adapt to increase the amount of BBE hits, playing arguably the best 2 drop in the format is a good place to start- goyf. I'll be experimenting with something similar to this in the future and post some thoughts later on after I've gotten a lot of playtesting in.
Agreed. The second list is nearly identical to mine except the mosses are Moltens, no Finks in the MB, +1 Magus of the Moon, only 1 Chandra + 1 Nissa, & + 3 Domri Rade. It has been a house for me thus far.
Played a 16-person event last night with the list below and started out on fire, 2-0, got smashed game 3, then lost a very close match 4 for a 2-2.
Match 1 vs. GR Tron. G1, T2 Blood Moon into BBE's to win. G2, T1 Pithing Needle for Expedition Map, T2 Stone Rain for the win 2-0.
Match 2 vs. Mono Blue. Looked like homebrew list of 1/1 flyers and lords. Easy win 2-0 after destroying lands
Match 3 vs. Dredge. Got absolutely smashed G1. G2 slowed him down with a T1 Trinisphere but didnt see any Relic and a ton of lands, no BBE. Lost 0-2
Match 4 vs. UW Spirits. G1, T2 Blood Moon into Stormbreath for the win. G2, He top decked 2 Selfless Spirits with me holding Anger of the Gods in hand. Eventually beat me while I drew lands. G3, Real close game but he squeaked it out. Lost 2-1
I'm thinking of a little more GY hate - maybe another Relic but overall I'm happy the way the deck performs. BBE into Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf is still a thing but hitting Stone Rain or Courser/Tireless Tracker is great.
So here how my matches went. I won't go into a lot of detail cause I was playing with a friend watching me on skype so we were going through the plays together.
R1: UW Control (2-1)
These were 3 really close games. Game 1 had Elspeth and I had no way out. Game 2 I got there with land destruction and hasty dudes. He couldn't really get there. Thrun got in and that helped a lot. Game 3 he was stuck on like 3 lands and a blood moon sealed him out. I love blood moon.
R2: UW Control (2-1)
Swear it was not the same guy. Very similar set ups but this guy had a Jace-centric deck than the previous one. I really didn't see that much but I was able to jam spells and get him to waste his counters. Best part was game 2 where he only had 1 Island. I jammed Spyglass out and he countered it. I had enough mana to send out a blood moon. Did I tell you that I really love blood moon?
R3: Storm (0-2)
This was no where near me winning. I think if I'm going to a big event and thinking storm might be there, I'll invest in some trinispheres. But I just felt like my sb hit most of what i cared about and if storm is my one loss, that's fine. Plus, I'm using a rental service for the deck so I don't think I could get spheres. But that would probably be my one change.
R4: Scapeshift? (2-0)
I honestly don't know what this guy was doing. Game 1, he discarded all his scapeshifts. I didn't see anything and I blood moon'd him in case valakut was there. Game 2, he scapeshifted for islands and was dead on board next turn since i had a dragon in hand. I honestly don't know what the deck was. I saw a jace in one of those matchups but it didn't matter.
R5: RG Eldrazi (2-0)
I was able to get there in these too. I got some LD in game 1 and stuck a moon game 2 when he was tapped. He couldn't cast anything other than the TKS he played earlier in game 2. Titan held him off until I was able to just swoop in for the win.
Won 180 play points, 8 treasaure chests and a qualifier point.
I love this deck. I feel I got some good practice for FNM tomorrow. My shop is having a huge super fnm for a playset of chandra's. Plus it being the first friday of the new modern, i feel there will be a lot of people there. maybe not since there are a few other stores in the area. i'm gonna jam blood moons, molten rains and stone rains all day. hopefully on turn 2. and hopefully when the blue player is tapped out.
Played a 16-person event last night with the list below and started out on fire, 2-0, got smashed game 3, then lost a very close match 4 for a 2-2.
Match 1 vs. GR Tron. G1, T2 Blood Moon into BBE's to win. G2, T1 Pithing Needle for Expedition Map, T2 Stone Rain for the win 2-0.
Match 2 vs. Mono Blue. Looked like homebrew list of 1/1 flyers and lords. Easy win 2-0 after destroying lands
Match 3 vs. Dredge. Got absolutely smashed G1. G2 slowed him down with a T1 Trinisphere but didnt see any Relic and a ton of lands, no BBE. Lost 0-2
Match 4 vs. UW Spirits. G1, T2 Blood Moon into Stormbreath for the win. G2, He top decked 2 Selfless Spirits with me holding Anger of the Gods in hand. Eventually beat me while I drew lands. G3, Real close game but he squeaked it out. Lost 2-1
I'm thinking of a little more GY hate - maybe another Relic but overall I'm happy the way the deck performs. BBE into Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf is still a thing but hitting Stone Rain or Courser/Tireless Tracker is great.
*Bloodbraid Elf felt relatively fair - the risk of getting a Utopia Sprawl or Birds of Paradise mitigates the nut draws of 7CMC worth of cards on T2 through it. Other times however you're casting it T3 or natural T4, and its only 2 toughness so died very easily to blockers.
*Tireless Tracker+Courser of Kruphix (and Chandra, Torch of Defiance if you're lucky) is pure gas, seeing what you want to draw (or not), filtering lands etc.
*MVP allrounder though was Nissa - The threat of 0/1 plants becoming a wide hoard of 1/2s was really helpful!
*I didn't have any issue with 4xMolten Rain as even without RR on T2 you almost always have *something* at 3CMC or less to cast then.
*Also, as we're not a discard deck, I don't really think Tarmogoyf has that much use for us. A utility creature like Scavenging Ooze is a better pick imho - in my Affinity game tonight I got it up to an 8/8 and gained 6 life doing so. If our opponents can't cast spells due to our land destruction, the Goyf won't grow that big!
Just for the SnGs I took it to play legacy last night. I went 2-1. Beat Lands, and Burn, lost to Dredge. I honestly didn’t expect to win any I just wanted more reps in with the deck and was pleasantly surprised.
I have been watching a LOT of people trying Jace and BBE decks online and one thing I am increasingly certain of is that BBE + Goyf is going to be a nightmare and Jace will be, well, meh. I'm tilting towards this list and I might just drop Titan entirely now.
@RochiTomRochi Destructive Revelry is kinda sexy. How have you liked it? Being able to deal with enchantments and artifacts seems nice, though casting Grudge from the yard is quite nice too. Getting enchantments out of the way is the one thing we don't generally do without using a Beast Within.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
"@RochiTomRochi
Destructive Revelry is kinda sexy. How have you liked it? Being able to deal with enchantments and artifacts seems nice, though casting Grudge from the yard is quite nice too. Getting enchantments out of the way is the one thing we don't generally do without using a Beast Within."
@Redtwister - as Ponza is generally a "soft" lock IE our opponents can get out of a Blood Moon or have low manacurve, I find the 2 damage from Destructive Revelry is more useful to close the game out. As well as the usual artifacts, there are some annoying enchantments out there - Spreading Seas, Search for Azcanta, Leyline of Sanctity, Bogles decks, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Courser of Kruphix. Slightly more niche scenario - the 2 damage can be redirected to Planeswalkers. The main question then is: Do you want 1 attempt to destroy an artifact, enchantment AND 2 damage, or 2 attempts at 2 artifacts with no damage.
Ancient Grudge is better against the deck we need it the most, Affinity. They can deal with 1 spot removal. They have a tougher time against 2 on the same card. It is also better against Lantern Control. There aren’t really any enchantments we are worried about. Boggles can be somewhat annoying, but if you play Trinisphere and Stone Rain them you should be fine. Trinisphere and Fracturing Gust pretty much wins you the game. Keep in mind they can’t play Daybreak Cornet until turn 3. You can also Beast Within just that Enchantment and be fine as well.
Ancient Grudge is better against the deck we need it the most, Affinity. They can deal with 1 spot removal. They have a tougher time against 2 on the same card. It is also better against Lantern Control. There aren’t really any enchantments we are worried about. Boggles can be somewhat annoying, but if you play Trinisphere and Stone Rain them you should be fine. Trinisphere and Fracturing Gust pretty much wins you the game. Keep in mind they can’t play Daybreak Cornet until turn 3. You can also Beast Within just that Enchantment and be fine as well.
Pretty spot on. When I'm not on Ponza, I'm piloting Bogles and hate when I get matched up with Ponza. T2 Blood Moon is GG and since most lists only run 2-3 basics, even a late game Moon + Stone Rain is usually game over.
My local meta is still in flux, but there are a ton of blue Jace deck, Bloodbraid decks, and Tron, and a few Valakut, Storm, and Ensnaring bridge artifact decks. Aggro has always been quite light, though sometimes some Affinity people show up. Thoughts?
My local meta is still in flux, but there are a ton of blue Jace deck, Bloodbraid decks, and Tron, and a few Valakut, Storm, and Ensnaring bridge artifact decks. Aggro has always been quite light, though sometimes some Affinity people show up. Thoughts?
If aggro is not prevalent you can consider the Courser a flex slot. Its still fine MD though. I would feel uncomfortable relying on Scooze as my only graveyard hate though, maybe add a relic? I don't think huntmaster is strong enough as a sideboard card. You could move Courser to the SB and open up a MD slot there, or just replace huntmaster with a relic and leave courser MD. I would also go -1 MWAM +1 Molten Rain for BBE hits.
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
This deck is great. I managed to take down a 30+ person local tournament with it. Bloodbraid Elf has really pushed it into the consistent competitive realm.
Well now that it has been spoiled that Blood Moon will be in M25 it is going to drop the cost of the deck down a considerable amount. That along with the new precon deck that has Chandra and Hazoret make it much more affordable. This means more people will become more interested in the deck so the primer may get a flood of questions from newer players. I’m not sure who is in charge of the primer but maybe we should have 2 parts (one being old Ponza and one with BBE) as they are 2 different decks now.
Old Ponza focused on ramp into big finishers which Acid Moss was apart of but because BBE can’t cascade into it we still need relevant land destruction targets and Molten Rain is the only other card to consider that is at 3CMC or under.
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Agreed. The second list is nearly identical to mine except the mosses are Moltens, no Finks in the MB, +1 Magus of the Moon, only 1 Chandra + 1 Nissa, & + 3 Domri Rade. It has been a house for me thus far.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Match 1 vs. GR Tron. G1, T2 Blood Moon into BBE's to win. G2, T1 Pithing Needle for Expedition Map, T2 Stone Rain for the win 2-0.
Match 2 vs. Mono Blue. Looked like homebrew list of 1/1 flyers and lords. Easy win 2-0 after destroying lands
Match 3 vs. Dredge. Got absolutely smashed G1. G2 slowed him down with a T1 Trinisphere but didnt see any Relic and a ton of lands, no BBE. Lost 0-2
Match 4 vs. UW Spirits. G1, T2 Blood Moon into Stormbreath for the win. G2, He top decked 2 Selfless Spirits with me holding Anger of the Gods in hand. Eventually beat me while I drew lands. G3, Real close game but he squeaked it out. Lost 2-1
I'm thinking of a little more GY hate - maybe another Relic but overall I'm happy the way the deck performs. BBE into Utopia Sprawl/Arbor Elf is still a thing but hitting Stone Rain or Courser/Tireless Tracker is great.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Courser of Kruphix
2 Inferno Titan
1 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Tireless Tracker
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
4 Blood Moon
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
2 Beast Within
1 Courser of Kruphix
2 Scavenging Oooze
So here how my matches went. I won't go into a lot of detail cause I was playing with a friend watching me on skype so we were going through the plays together.
R1: UW Control (2-1)
These were 3 really close games. Game 1 had Elspeth and I had no way out. Game 2 I got there with land destruction and hasty dudes. He couldn't really get there. Thrun got in and that helped a lot. Game 3 he was stuck on like 3 lands and a blood moon sealed him out. I love blood moon.
R2: UW Control (2-1)
Swear it was not the same guy. Very similar set ups but this guy had a Jace-centric deck than the previous one. I really didn't see that much but I was able to jam spells and get him to waste his counters. Best part was game 2 where he only had 1 Island. I jammed Spyglass out and he countered it. I had enough mana to send out a blood moon. Did I tell you that I really love blood moon?
R3: Storm (0-2)
This was no where near me winning. I think if I'm going to a big event and thinking storm might be there, I'll invest in some trinispheres. But I just felt like my sb hit most of what i cared about and if storm is my one loss, that's fine. Plus, I'm using a rental service for the deck so I don't think I could get spheres. But that would probably be my one change.
R4: Scapeshift? (2-0)
I honestly don't know what this guy was doing. Game 1, he discarded all his scapeshifts. I didn't see anything and I blood moon'd him in case valakut was there. Game 2, he scapeshifted for islands and was dead on board next turn since i had a dragon in hand. I honestly don't know what the deck was. I saw a jace in one of those matchups but it didn't matter.
R5: RG Eldrazi (2-0)
I was able to get there in these too. I got some LD in game 1 and stuck a moon game 2 when he was tapped. He couldn't cast anything other than the TKS he played earlier in game 2. Titan held him off until I was able to just swoop in for the win.
Won 180 play points, 8 treasaure chests and a qualifier point.
I love this deck. I feel I got some good practice for FNM tomorrow. My shop is having a huge super fnm for a playset of chandra's. Plus it being the first friday of the new modern, i feel there will be a lot of people there. maybe not since there are a few other stores in the area. i'm gonna jam blood moons, molten rains and stone rains all day. hopefully on turn 2. and hopefully when the blue player is tapped out.
Good luck to everyone playing tomorrow.
List is here: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rg-pure-ld/?cb=1519431825
G1 - Goryo's Vengeance 2-1 > G3 I had Relic of Progenitus then Scavenging Ooze to keep his GY in check.
G2 - UB Faeries 2-0 > Blood Moon won it for me G2 as he tapped out T2 for Bitterblossom. I kept alive with Kitchen Finks, then used Nissa, Voice of Zendikar's -2 ability to swing with my board, cast Molten Rain to act as a Shock and he died to his own faerie trigger.
G3 - Goryo's Vengeance 1-2 > I kept a very sketchy G1 hand I should've mulliganed and cast nothing before he comboed off.
G4 - Affinity 2-1 > Incredible hand G3 on the draw - T1 land go, T2 Destructive Revelry his Steel Overseer, T3 Molten Rain his [/card]Inkmoth Nexus[/card], T4 Bloodbraid Elf into Stone Rain his Blinkmoth Nexus, T5 Fracturing Gust!!
*Bloodbraid Elf felt relatively fair - the risk of getting a Utopia Sprawl or Birds of Paradise mitigates the nut draws of 7CMC worth of cards on T2 through it. Other times however you're casting it T3 or natural T4, and its only 2 toughness so died very easily to blockers.
*Tireless Tracker+Courser of Kruphix (and Chandra, Torch of Defiance if you're lucky) is pure gas, seeing what you want to draw (or not), filtering lands etc.
*MVP allrounder though was Nissa - The threat of 0/1 plants becoming a wide hoard of 1/2s was really helpful!
*I didn't have any issue with 4xMolten Rain as even without RR on T2 you almost always have *something* at 3CMC or less to cast then.
*Also, as we're not a discard deck, I don't really think Tarmogoyf has that much use for us. A utility creature like Scavenging Ooze is a better pick imho - in my Affinity game tonight I got it up to an 8/8 and gained 6 life doing so. If our opponents can't cast spells due to our land destruction, the Goyf won't grow that big!
4 Arbor Elf
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Bloodbraid Elf
3 Tireless Tracker
2 Stormbreath Dragon
2 Scavenging Ooze
Planeswalker 2
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Instant 2
2 Beast Within
3 Molten Rain
4 Stone Rain
Enchantments 8
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Blood Moon
Lands 22
9 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
3 Ancient Grudge
3 Anger of the Gods
3 Trinisphere
2 Choke
1 Fracturing Gust
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
1 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
@RochiTomRochi
Destructive Revelry is kinda sexy. How have you liked it? Being able to deal with enchantments and artifacts seems nice, though casting Grudge from the yard is quite nice too. Getting enchantments out of the way is the one thing we don't generally do without using a Beast Within.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
Destructive Revelry is kinda sexy. How have you liked it? Being able to deal with enchantments and artifacts seems nice, though casting Grudge from the yard is quite nice too. Getting enchantments out of the way is the one thing we don't generally do without using a Beast Within."
@Redtwister - as Ponza is generally a "soft" lock IE our opponents can get out of a Blood Moon or have low manacurve, I find the 2 damage from Destructive Revelry is more useful to close the game out. As well as the usual artifacts, there are some annoying enchantments out there - Spreading Seas, Search for Azcanta, Leyline of Sanctity, Bogles decks, Eidolon of the Great Revel, Courser of Kruphix. Slightly more niche scenario - the 2 damage can be redirected to Planeswalkers. The main question then is: Do you want 1 attempt to destroy an artifact, enchantment AND 2 damage, or 2 attempts at 2 artifacts with no damage.
Pretty spot on. When I'm not on Ponza, I'm piloting Bogles and hate when I get matched up with Ponza. T2 Blood Moon is GG and since most lists only run 2-3 basics, even a late game Moon + Stone Rain is usually game over.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
what did you play against? did you like the deck a lot? what would your changes be? naya seems interesting. was the mana rough?
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arbor Elf
1 Beast Within
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Blood Moon
4 Bloodbraid Elf
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Courser of Kruphix
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Inferno Titan
3 Molten Rain
2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Stone Rain
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Tireless Tracker
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Choke
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Trinisphere
My local meta is still in flux, but there are a ton of blue Jace deck, Bloodbraid decks, and Tron, and a few Valakut, Storm, and Ensnaring bridge artifact decks. Aggro has always been quite light, though sometimes some Affinity people show up. Thoughts?
If aggro is not prevalent you can consider the Courser a flex slot. Its still fine MD though. I would feel uncomfortable relying on Scooze as my only graveyard hate though, maybe add a relic? I don't think huntmaster is strong enough as a sideboard card. You could move Courser to the SB and open up a MD slot there, or just replace huntmaster with a relic and leave courser MD. I would also go -1 MWAM +1 Molten Rain for BBE hits.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Seems fine, right?
Seems like all the things I want my fatty to do. Except I want him to do them ETB, or have haste. I think he's under the bar without one of those.
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
Sorry, only 2 Kitchen Finks in the board.
GWUBAtraxa and Her Superfriends
WUB Oloro, the Life Drain Train
URG Animar, Soul of Elements
WBR Kaalia of the Vast
BWTeysa Karlov, Scion of Orzhov
R Purphoros, Goblins of Pain ($100 Budget Challenge)
U Talrand, Fun Police (Needs updating)
is there a meta reason behind this?
Old Ponza focused on ramp into big finishers which Acid Moss was apart of but because BBE can’t cascade into it we still need relevant land destruction targets and Molten Rain is the only other card to consider that is at 3CMC or under.