This is the deck I've been playing, though not as often as I like. It's mostly based on a White Pillow-Fort deck but I found I truly wanted to lock them out instead of just adding more and more Ghostly Prisons/Sphere of Safety. I'm wondering what advice the LD thread has to offer.
Beast Within + Ghostly Prison is a very versatile combination. I often use the Beast Within to kill lands since that does double duty of keeping them from attacking and from playing future spells.
[card]
Spreading Algae[/card] + Scepter of Dominance = looping LD. Tap their land, get Algae back, play it on another land. Scepter is also useful as a utility card to tap down Splinter Twin guys and key attackers, keeping them off of a colour in Rishadan Port fashion and also helping to get Heliod active.
One interaction that's very strong in this deck is Porphyry Nodes + Heliod. If he's a God then the Nodes stay out forever since they can't kill him, this means the opponent cannot get much use out of their creatures.
Soul Tithe is an odd choice but it taxes them on their early plays while you set-up. Most of all it's versatile like Beast Within. It's reccurable, along with Nodes via Starfield of Nyx. Abrupt Decay is another good choice but this deck is hungry on White mana.
Suppression Field is a strong card for LD decks as it essentially shuts down Fetch-lands with additional LD going on. I would include it in the board.
I love this thread and I look forward to brewing up a version of this to bring dismay to my LGS. I'm thinking that a really oppressive and grindy version might be great, and in mono-red to lend to resiliency. I also feel like sweepers are important, I want actual destruction instead of Blood Moon, which also makes the 3cc slot pretty heavy with your efficient land destruction, and possibly some lockout and fun tricks. So this is what I'm feeling right now.
I'm not sure about any of this, of course. I feel like Chalice of the Void on 1 is really strong, especially if people get smart and start to sandbag lands. Once you've got them at zero lands, they might as well scoop. Simian Spirit Guide might be a bit greedy, but I feel like it helps fuel the dream, which is Turn 1: Land, Spirit Guide, Chalice on 1, even if that is a bit optimistic, it would be back breaking. Also, he helps power out LD on turn 2, which is a plus.
I enjoy Surgical Extraction on a fetch land, or even on the first land that you nuke if that works. It also lets you look through the deck, as DrLemniscate mentioned above, lets you know about the board, if done on turn one you can find out what your opponent is on, if they've only played fetch, crack, go or something.
I want sweepers to help stabilize, so I feel like Pyroclasm is the best choice, but possibly some Anger of the Gods in the board, if you're dealing with a deck that can power out lords, like Merfolk or something. Lightning Bolt just seems like an obvious addition since I'm in mono-red control, though I'm not sure about that. And I've also considered Gut Shot in case you're tapped out on LD and they just drop a land and a delver or something.
I still want Blood Moon to be a sideboard card, because I feel like people are playing around it these days, so it might not be the best in the main cluttering up an already stacked 3 slot, but decks like Amulet Bloom totally fold to it.
I think Koth of the Hammer is a perfectly good wincon, it makes the mountains beaters, and if he ultimates the game is pretty much over.
I tested this deck a bit on cockatrice, and it surprised me with how strong it is. It feels slow if you don't draw a utopia sprawl, but it has good matchups against many decks. It destroys tron if they don't get a turn 3 karn, eldrazi can't handle the LD, and many 3-color decks die to hating out their shocks. Affinity is hard, but the early removal followed by a turn 4 damnation can take game 1 and a bit of hate strengthens games 2-3. Twin seems like a very hard matchup, but I didn't run into any. The main weakness seems to be the lack of T1/T2 plays.
I'm brewing up a grixis version which plays a lower curve, more symmetric LD, and tries to enable soft counters by limiting mana. A turn 3 boom targetting my own fetchland to set up a spell pierce on their turn while my goblin electromancer puts on the 2/2 beats is the idea.
I took the deck to an IRL event finally and almost went undefeated. Some weird draws (like triple Darksteel Citadel) kind of did me in. Regardless, I think the deck is really well positioned right now. Here's my current list:
I swapped Grave Titan with Chandra, as they serve the same purpose but one can wipe the board. I'm working on figuring out the correct number of walls and utopia sprawls. We dont *need* them but the accel helps. Wall also conveniently blocks as we blow up lands.
Trinisphere from the board is surprisingly really good. You can just land it t2/t3 then play LD spells after. This stops many decks in their tracks, like burn and affinity.
Ugh this deck looks so good. I used to play a budget version and it was surprisingly effective. Nobody expected to only have 2 lands the whole game. This might even be the best deck with twin gone.
Rolling boil is interesting. Chandra seems very good... i used to run charmbreakers but chandra just seems faster. Raging ravine also.. kind of surprised at lack of painful truths but burn is possibly the worst matchup.. burn or affinity.. boil seems kinda boring but i guess its there for control.
I hope I neer play against this deck. Or I'll start running trace of abundance in the side.
Your lack of WIldfire makes me sad. Seriously it solves all the decks issues.
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Omg I love the tasigur + mana tithe lock. I actually own a lot of these cards, I am probably going to build this deck... if only damnation wasn't so damn expensive :\
idk about blackmail though. If they know you're on land destruction they just show you their 3 most expensive cards. Prob going to replace them with painful truths and anger of the gods or something.
Your lack of WIldfire makes me sad. Seriously it solves all the decks issues.
With my build you can't actually recover from a Wildfire yourself. So what's the point of it? It constrains both players to draw lands, vs your opponent.
Here's my current list. Sideboard needs less Boil as there are no more twins. Grixis Control is the only other deck, but we should be fine with how few lands they play. Crumble can serve same purpose and hit interesting lands like 1/4 of affinity manabase. Not sold on Crumble.
Have you thought of adding Mwonvuli acid-moss? It feels so good when it lands, but I don't know what you'd take out for it. maybe 1 rain of tears?
I feel like you have enough affinity hate for crumble to be useful. Maybe another planeswalker for the control decks? Maybe a Boseiju or Tasigur? Or another Slaughter Games. I actually feel like Slaughter Games would be the best against control (except maybe Lantern Control). Slaughter Games also has the advantage of hitting weird decks like Troll Worship. Of course Vraska gets around that too... Vraska's so good..
Maybe there should just be another land in the sideboard. Or Search for Tomorrow. In my experience the main problem with Land Destruction is that it's slow, and if it gets enough time, it can basically beat any deck.
Fracturing gust might be worthwhile, since it looks like 2GGG is hit a reasonable amount of the time.
My guess.. Finks should prob go in the crumble spot. You can never have enough finks.
EDIT: holy ***** I didn't know you were Zac Elsik no wonder this deck is so good
Another update, went 3-1 at event, losing to poor mulligan + unusual draws by the tron player. I don't think we should expect to lose against tron lol; never saw surgical either. Anyway, the list is still solid and I would love for others to try it out and ask questions about certain cards. The manabase needs a bit of work. It's the same manabase I've been using but something feels like it could be better. Haven't gotten a chance to test Chandra yes, as she isn't legal. However, Grave Titan still does work. I tested Outpost Siege in the main in replace of a titan, it was alright but too finicky. Would rather just have a titan/chandra there.
There have been times where I've had 2 Vraska in hand and I don't mind it. You can always play them to blow up a permanent. GDD is a tad scary cause with our current design that only hits Stone Rain and Rain of Tears, doesn't work with Fulminator Mage or Wrecking Ball. The creature itself isn't a good replacement as a finisher as it dies to any of the removal they have stuck in their hand.
If you want, test 2 Outpost Siege over 2 Vraska. I tried this for a bit. I kept running into situations where I needed to play my threat (Vraska/Siege) and also needed to answer what they had going on. Siege didn't answer but vraska did. It's possible this still isn't the best, four vraska, but I only have myself aggressively testing so it's hard to check all the outcomes.
One requires double black the other double red. They cannot be easily interchanged. The deck I designed focuses on Forests. Note how important Forests are for Utopia Sprawl. So we know we are already constrained to finding an untapped Forest on turn 1. Then notice we use Damnation, which is a much better sweeper than Anger of the Gods. Anger can't kill etched champion or goyf or tasigur or rhino or random other threats that pop up every now and then.
As a result, I designed the deck to favor a forest turn 1/2, and double-black by turn 3/4 when you need to sweep. If we throw in a double red card you throw everything off balance.
As a counterpoint, we are arguing that double red for the sake of 2 damage is "worth it." How often is that two damage going to be relevant? We aren't attacking them with creatures, so tacking on a little damage won't actually help use much. When we do attack it's going to be for lethal (Assassins) or for 10 (Grave Titan). The best the 2 damage can serve us is in the face of a Lily or other planeswalker that ticked down. These type of walkers are pretty rare actually in modern, and when they do pop up we have decay/vraska to deal with them.
I only actually played one full match because people keep ragequitting. 4 Vraska is definitely the right call. Also, Crumble has a hidden purpose of thinning out the opponent's deck of lands, which imo is better than mwonvuli acid-moss. Rolling spoil is great against our trouble matchups. Tasigur sucks, he just gets pathed the turn I play him. Wrecking ball is okay but I found I didn't need it too much. I'm thinking about replacing the Tasigur with Stormbreath Dragon and see how that goes. Ideally we can kill the turn after Stormbreath drops because our opponent will have a lot of cards in hand (this will not always be the case.) It dodges most of the 1cmc removal (except Flame Slash ) and is a great card. I think Chandra is probs the best though.
Also, I kind of cheaped out on the manabase but it seems to work. If anything, I'd have more green sources that come untapped so I can play Utopia Sprawl turn 1.
Bramblecrush is the best Creeping Mold. I've since taken out the Spoil in favor of 1 MD Crumble. You can run other things here, like Befoul even.
If you wanted another good one, Avalanche Riders is sweet. Ignore the fact it has echo and just assume it will die next turn. You cast, it can swing to planeswalkers if need, but it's a 2/2 body that blocks creature decks on your turn 3 a good chunk of the time.
I didn't realize wrecking ball was an instant. I feel like fulminator being instant speed is also useful, and makes him difficult to cut. Sometimes people will hold up fetchlands to get one big mana turn and having a fulminator out crimps that plan.
Avalanche riders is the best substitute that I know. You could try Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He can recur your land destruction, if he lives.
Edit: I just played a 1v1 game against affinity. I wouldn't side in ALL the Trinispheres on the draw, but on the play they're amazing. Esp. when you get one t2 :3
Edit2: I might replace one forest with Horizon Canopy, since this deck doesn't have a lot of card draw. But I might not for budget reasons.
I was thinking of remaking a land destruction deck after my 3 month break from modern. I plan on running it during my LGS's next modern FNM.
Can I get some advice on my list?
I'm strongly aiming for a turn 2 land destruction spell, followed by turn 3 land destruction/avalanche Riders. Win conditions are restoration angels, goblin dark dwellers, mandrills, walkers. Dwellers are sweet because they allow me to cast Bust of Boom//Bust from the graveyard or any of the other spells.
I'm afraid I'm missing removal against faster decks.
Ground is like Spreading Seas in black with -2 lifeloss instead of a cantrip and Venom can kill the land later if needed. So instead of killing their lands straight away we can tax them everytime they want to use them.
This is the deck I've been playing, though not as often as I like. It's mostly based on a White Pillow-Fort deck but I found I truly wanted to lock them out instead of just adding more and more Ghostly Prisons/Sphere of Safety. I'm wondering what advice the LD thread has to offer.
Beast Within + Ghostly Prison is a very versatile combination. I often use the Beast Within to kill lands since that does double duty of keeping them from attacking and from playing future spells.
[card]
Spreading Algae[/card] + Scepter of Dominance = looping LD. Tap their land, get Algae back, play it on another land. Scepter is also useful as a utility card to tap down Splinter Twin guys and key attackers, keeping them off of a colour in Rishadan Port fashion and also helping to get Heliod active.
One interaction that's very strong in this deck is Porphyry Nodes + Heliod. If he's a God then the Nodes stay out forever since they can't kill him, this means the opponent cannot get much use out of their creatures.
Soul Tithe is an odd choice but it taxes them on their early plays while you set-up. Most of all it's versatile like Beast Within. It's reccurable, along with Nodes via Starfield of Nyx. Abrupt Decay is another good choice but this deck is hungry on White mana.
Suppression Field is a strong card for LD decks as it essentially shuts down Fetch-lands with additional LD going on. I would include it in the board.
2x Greater Auramancy
4x Leyline of Sanctity
4x Porphyry Nodes
4x Runed Halo
3x Soul Tithe
4x Spreading Algae
2x Starfield of Nyx
3x Scepter of Dominance
3x Heliod, God of the Sun
1x Forest
2x Nykthos, Shrine to Nyx
2x Marsh Flats
4x Plains
3x Stirring Wildwood
4x Temple Garden
4x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Windswept Heath
You win with Heliod or Starfield or Stirring Wildwoods.
4x Lightning Bolt
Sweepers
4x Pyroclasm
Denial
4x Boom // Bust
4x Molten Rain
4x Stone Rain
4x Fulminator Mage
4x Surgical Extraction
4x Chalice of the Void
Fast Mana
4x Simian Spirit Guide
Win
2x Koth of the Hammer
Land
18x Mountain
4x Ghost Quarter
I'm not sure about any of this, of course. I feel like Chalice of the Void on 1 is really strong, especially if people get smart and start to sandbag lands. Once you've got them at zero lands, they might as well scoop. Simian Spirit Guide might be a bit greedy, but I feel like it helps fuel the dream, which is Turn 1: Land, Spirit Guide, Chalice on 1, even if that is a bit optimistic, it would be back breaking. Also, he helps power out LD on turn 2, which is a plus.
I enjoy Surgical Extraction on a fetch land, or even on the first land that you nuke if that works. It also lets you look through the deck, as DrLemniscate mentioned above, lets you know about the board, if done on turn one you can find out what your opponent is on, if they've only played fetch, crack, go or something.
I want sweepers to help stabilize, so I feel like Pyroclasm is the best choice, but possibly some Anger of the Gods in the board, if you're dealing with a deck that can power out lords, like Merfolk or something. Lightning Bolt just seems like an obvious addition since I'm in mono-red control, though I'm not sure about that. And I've also considered Gut Shot in case you're tapped out on LD and they just drop a land and a delver or something.
I still want Blood Moon to be a sideboard card, because I feel like people are playing around it these days, so it might not be the best in the main cluttering up an already stacked 3 slot, but decks like Amulet Bloom totally fold to it.
I think Koth of the Hammer is a perfectly good wincon, it makes the mountains beaters, and if he ultimates the game is pretty much over.
I tested this deck a bit on cockatrice, and it surprised me with how strong it is. It feels slow if you don't draw a utopia sprawl, but it has good matchups against many decks. It destroys tron if they don't get a turn 3 karn, eldrazi can't handle the LD, and many 3-color decks die to hating out their shocks. Affinity is hard, but the early removal followed by a turn 4 damnation can take game 1 and a bit of hate strengthens games 2-3. Twin seems like a very hard matchup, but I didn't run into any. The main weakness seems to be the lack of T1/T2 plays.
I'm brewing up a grixis version which plays a lower curve, more symmetric LD, and tries to enable soft counters by limiting mana. A turn 3 boom targetting my own fetchland to set up a spell pierce on their turn while my goblin electromancer puts on the 2/2 beats is the idea.
4 Stone Rain
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Rain of Tears
4 Wrecking Ball
2 Rolling Spoil
2 Wall of Roots
4 Abrupt Decay
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
2 Damnation
4 Vraska the Unseen
0 Grave Titan
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Raging Ravine
2 Encroaching Wastes
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Trinisphere
3 Obstinate Baloth
3 Boil
2 Slaughter Games
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Pyroclasm
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Crumble to Dust
I swapped Grave Titan with Chandra, as they serve the same purpose but one can wipe the board. I'm working on figuring out the correct number of walls and utopia sprawls. We dont *need* them but the accel helps. Wall also conveniently blocks as we blow up lands.
Trinisphere from the board is surprisingly really good. You can just land it t2/t3 then play LD spells after. This stops many decks in their tracks, like burn and affinity.
Cut crumble and grudge for second surgical and clasm. I want to trade balotha for finks.
Rolling boil is interesting. Chandra seems very good... i used to run charmbreakers but chandra just seems faster. Raging ravine also.. kind of surprised at lack of painful truths but burn is possibly the worst matchup.. burn or affinity.. boil seems kinda boring but i guess its there for control.
I hope I neer play against this deck. Or I'll start running trace of abundance in the side.
Cockatrice username: Blackcat77
3 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Mana Tithe
4 Blackmail
4 Terminate
4 Boom//Bust
2 Shadow of Doubt
4 Stone Rain
2 Damnation
4 Ajani Vengeant
3 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
4 Marsh Flats
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
Maybe in EDH :3
Omg I love the tasigur + mana tithe lock. I actually own a lot of these cards, I am probably going to build this deck... if only damnation wasn't so damn expensive :\
idk about blackmail though. If they know you're on land destruction they just show you their 3 most expensive cards. Prob going to replace them with painful truths and anger of the gods or something.
thanks for sharing!
With my build you can't actually recover from a Wildfire yourself. So what's the point of it? It constrains both players to draw lands, vs your opponent.
Here's my current list. Sideboard needs less Boil as there are no more twins. Grixis Control is the only other deck, but we should be fine with how few lands they play. Crumble can serve same purpose and hit interesting lands like 1/4 of affinity manabase. Not sold on Crumble.
4 Stone Rain
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Rain of Tears
4 Wrecking Ball
2 Rolling Spoil
2 Wall of Roots
3 Abrupt Decay
1 Terminate
1 Pyroclasm
1 Firespout
2 Damnation
4 Vraska the Unseen
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Raging Ravine
2 Encroaching Wastes
3 Forest
2 Swamp
1 Mountain
3 Trinisphere
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Pyroclasm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Boil
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Slaughter Games
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Shatterstorm
I feel like you have enough affinity hate for crumble to be useful. Maybe another planeswalker for the control decks? Maybe a Boseiju or Tasigur? Or another Slaughter Games. I actually feel like Slaughter Games would be the best against control (except maybe Lantern Control). Slaughter Games also has the advantage of hitting weird decks like Troll Worship. Of course Vraska gets around that too... Vraska's so good..
Maybe there should just be another land in the sideboard. Or Search for Tomorrow. In my experience the main problem with Land Destruction is that it's slow, and if it gets enough time, it can basically beat any deck.
Fracturing gust might be worthwhile, since it looks like 2GGG is hit a reasonable amount of the time.
My guess.. Finks should prob go in the crumble spot. You can never have enough finks.
EDIT: holy ***** I didn't know you were Zac Elsik no wonder this deck is so good
4 Fulminator Mage
4 Rain of Tears
4 Wrecking Ball
1 Crumble to Dust
1 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Pyroclasm
4 Abrupt Decay
3 Damnation
4 Vraska the Unseen
2 Chandra, Flamecaller
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
2 Raging Ravine
2 Encroaching Wastes
1 Graven Cairns
3 Forest
2 Swamp
3 Trinisphere
3 Kitchen Finks
2 Pyroclasm
2 Surgical Extraction
1 Night of Souls' Betrayal
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Slaughter Games
1 Outpost Siege
1 Boil
If you want, test 2 Outpost Siege over 2 Vraska. I tried this for a bit. I kept running into situations where I needed to play my threat (Vraska/Siege) and also needed to answer what they had going on. Siege didn't answer but vraska did. It's possible this still isn't the best, four vraska, but I only have myself aggressively testing so it's hard to check all the outcomes.
As a result, I designed the deck to favor a forest turn 1/2, and double-black by turn 3/4 when you need to sweep. If we throw in a double red card you throw everything off balance.
As a counterpoint, we are arguing that double red for the sake of 2 damage is "worth it." How often is that two damage going to be relevant? We aren't attacking them with creatures, so tacking on a little damage won't actually help use much. When we do attack it's going to be for lethal (Assassins) or for 10 (Grave Titan). The best the 2 damage can serve us is in the face of a Lily or other planeswalker that ticked down. These type of walkers are pretty rare actually in modern, and when they do pop up we have decay/vraska to deal with them.
3 Windswept Heath
2 Overgrown Tomb
2 Blood Crypt
2 Swamp
4 Forest
1 Graven Cairns
2 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple of Abandon
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Utopia Sprawl
2 Pyroclasm
3 Damnation
4 Vraska the Unseen
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Read the Bones
2 Rolling Spoil
2 Encroaching Wastes
4 Rain of Tears
1 Wrecking Ball
1 Crumble to Dust
4 Fulminator Mage
3 Trinisphere
1 Creeping Corrosion
1 Slaughter Games
1 Boil
2 Lightning Bolt
2 Rakdos Charm
2 Wrecking Ball
1 Painful Truths
2 Pyroclasm
I only actually played one full match because people keep ragequitting. 4 Vraska is definitely the right call. Also, Crumble has a hidden purpose of thinning out the opponent's deck of lands, which imo is better than mwonvuli acid-moss. Rolling spoil is great against our trouble matchups. Tasigur sucks, he just gets pathed the turn I play him. Wrecking ball is okay but I found I didn't need it too much. I'm thinking about replacing the Tasigur with Stormbreath Dragon and see how that goes. Ideally we can kill the turn after Stormbreath drops because our opponent will have a lot of cards in hand (this will not always be the case.) It dodges most of the 1cmc removal (except Flame Slash ) and is a great card. I think Chandra is probs the best though.
Also, I kind of cheaped out on the manabase but it seems to work. If anything, I'd have more green sources that come untapped so I can play Utopia Sprawl turn 1.
If you wanted another good one, Avalanche Riders is sweet. Ignore the fact it has echo and just assume it will die next turn. You cast, it can swing to planeswalkers if need, but it's a 2/2 body that blocks creature decks on your turn 3 a good chunk of the time.
Avalanche riders is the best substitute that I know. You could try Tasigur, the Golden Fang. He can recur your land destruction, if he lives.
Edit: I just played a 1v1 game against affinity. I wouldn't side in ALL the Trinispheres on the draw, but on the play they're amazing. Esp. when you get one t2 :3
Edit2: I might replace one forest with Horizon Canopy, since this deck doesn't have a lot of card draw. But I might not for budget reasons.
Can I get some advice on my list?
4 Avalanche Riders
4 Restoration Angels
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Lotus Cobra
2 Goblin Dark Dwellers
2 Hooting Mandrills
2 Ajani Vengeant
1 Koth of the Hammer
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Boom//Bust
4 Molten Rain
2 Faithless Looting
4 Wooded Foothill
4 Windswept Heath
2 Scalding Tarn
4 Flagstones of Trokair
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Temple Garden
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Plains
1 Forest
1 Mountain
2 Stony Silence
1 Chalice of the Void
2 Spellskite
4 Destructive Revelry
3 Anger of the Gods
3 spots I don't know
I'm strongly aiming for a turn 2 land destruction spell, followed by turn 3 land destruction/avalanche Riders. Win conditions are restoration angels, goblin dark dwellers, mandrills, walkers. Dwellers are sweet because they allow me to cast Bust of Boom//Bust from the graveyard or any of the other spells.
I'm afraid I'm missing removal against faster decks.
Ground is like Spreading Seas in black with -2 lifeloss instead of a cantrip and Venom can kill the land later if needed. So instead of killing their lands straight away we can tax them everytime they want to use them.
WBG Elves WBG
Cheeri0s
EDH:
RG Omnath, Locus of Rage RG || GWUB Atraxa, Praetors' Voice GWUB
R Zo-Zu the Punisher R || WU Brago, King Eternal WU
UB Gisa and Geralf UB || BGW Ghave, Guru of Spores BGW