I need some help with my list. Theres 3 blue tron players, 5 affinity players and some burn/humans/sultai tempo/Death Shadow/zoo and two jeskai control players.
What do you guys recommend? I know i need atleast one thrun, the last troll in the 75. I was thinking of adding 2-3 birds of paradise for getting my thee drops out faster. A friend recommended blood sun
testing a few things (just in case) and i have a question. if i cast Bloodbraid Elf and then cast Eldritch Evolution off the cascade trigger, can i sac the Bloodbraid Elf to pay the additional cost? the way i’m reading it is, no. cascade and the spell cast off it resolve before the Bloodbraid Elf, so the Elf would not be on the battlefield to sac.
testing a few things (just in case) and i have a question. if i cast Bloodbraid Elf and then cast Eldritch Evolution off the cascade trigger, can i sac the Bloodbraid Elf to pay the additional cost? the way i’m reading it is, no. cascade and the spell cast off it resolve before the Bloodbraid Elf, so the Elf would not be on the battlefield to sac.
is that correct?
Yup. That's right. Elf hasn't resolved yet. Can't sac it.
Bloodbraid Elf thoughts:
-You're probably going to want to run Lightning Bolt, and Bonfire is worse now.
-Molten Rain might be playable over Acid Moss if you want to lower your curve
-Goblin Rabblemaster is maybe worth testing again
-Shrinking on dorks (AKA "cutting the two birds") has another argument in its favor
Agree with all of the above. Bonfire was already an iffy card, and Birds rarely felt good. 4 Trackers, 2+ Coursers, and a few Scooze and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar all seem like nice non-LD targets. I think our curve overall goes lower and more midrange rather than the "ramp into Inferno Titan" we traditionally do.
Agree with all of the above. Bonfire was already an iffy card, and Birds rarely felt good. 4 Trackers, 2+ Coursers, and a few Scooze and Nissa, Voice of Zendikar all seem like nice non-LD targets. I think our curve overall goes lower and more midrange rather than the "ramp into Inferno Titan" we traditionally do.
I was never a fan of Inferno Titan, but I still think 2-4 curve toppers is fine (I prefer x2 Stormbreath Dragon, x1 Acidic Slime, and x1 Hazoret the Fervent anyway + the newly reintroduced Bloodbraid Elf), especially if you keep Acid Moss in-deck. Even without birds, curving into mana acceleration is real, so having 5-6 drops is a good idea.
Cut Birds for Lotus Cobra, IMO. We already run the Fetch package to abuse it, it's a decent threat for 2 mana, and it's really explosive (even if it doesn't always help with a T2 Stone Rain). I think Goblin Dark-Dwellers are looking pretty good again, so maybe Mizzium Mortars instead of Bolt for the one-sided Boardwipe possibility? I'm gonna start testing this evening!
Mortars is a great example of something that was almost-playable as an alternative to Bonfire that just gets so much better with BBE. I like it. Ditto for Lotus Cobra. I'm definitely not ready to give up the Arbor Elf/Utopia Sprawl package but dorks with a bit more aggro power would be interesting. And we're gonna need it to race down all the Jace's we're about to be up against...
Birds of Paradise is now gone. Even if you didn’t like all the stats and theory crafting before BBE just makes there literally no argument to run it. BBE into BOP is laughable! I think instead of the 1 Garruk we can run 1 Nissa. And the Huntmaster slots that were used are now BBE. I’m still working on a list but there are some obvious changes that need to be made such as the removal of Beast Within. That card is the only thing I can think of that would be worse than BOP and I enjoyed it before because it was so flexible.
Once I have done more play testing I will post what I have found is a solid list.
Birds of Paradise is now gone. Even if you didn’t like all the stats and theory crafting before BBE just makes there literally no argument to run it. BBE into BOP is laughable! I think instead of the 1 Garruk we can run 1 Nissa. And the Huntmaster slots that were used are now BBE. I’m still working on a list but there are some obvious changes that need to be made such as the removal of Beast Within. That card is the only thing I can think of that would be worse than BOP and I enjoyed it before because it was so flexible.
Once I have done more play testing I will post what I have found is a solid list.
I'd still run Beast Within as a 1-2 of MB, especially for the next two weeks while everyone forces Jace into every deck they have. Worst case scenario, you can pop their land and trade the token with BBE.
Nah Jace is overrated. He much like bitterblossom will hit like a thud. People will try to make it work but will find out it isn’t all that. Between the 2 BBE keeps Jace in check. Joban while some scoff I promise you BBE is what we should be playing at least as a 3 of and will alter the cards we play. Mizzium Mortars definitely makes a case now and BOP is absolutely the worst of garbage.
Played against Hollow Call and Sultai Delver (with Jace in it, though he didn't see it in our games). Felt phenomenal most of my games. Might need to go to 22 lands and a single Molten Rain instead of Acid-Moss, but it was a good start, for sure!
BBE is going to be terrible in this deck. You guys are already talking about cutting BoP, weakening the T2 options which have long been a major success factor for Ponza. Someone started talking about Rabblemaster, FFS. There are only two placed BBE is going to be worth it's slot: Jund and Assault - and Assault already get's better value from its Blue cards.
Think it through: BBE is a hasty 3/2 that gives you a random <4 drop. A 3/2 for 4 in Modern is already unplayable. Cascade would often make the card worth thinking about, but only if you can control what you're going to hit. Let me tell you, cascading into Utopia Sprawl is never going to feel good. Same thing goes for the elf. So what are you hoping for? Blood Moon and Stone Rain? On T4! Guess what I want to be casting on 4. Titan! Or Dragon! I'm hoping to already have Blood Moon in play by then, or have already hit Stone Rain and Acid Moss. Moreover...if I haven't, I'm prolly losing and BBE isn't going to turn anything around for me.
Here's another thought: How often are you going to look at BBE and Stone Rain in your hand and decide to cast BBE? The correct answer is pretty much never. If you are about to lose to Shadow and need the blocker is pretty much the only thing I can think of, and that's not a winning line.
Go ahead and test the hell out of it, but I played BBE a ton when he was in standard (He was amazing in Swans) and won't be wasting time/slots on BBE in Ponza.
When your opponent finds 5 lands in a game, BBE gives you value to out-tempo them or keep the pressure on their lands while also putting pressure onto their life total with instant Bolt damage that stays on the Board. When your opponent drew past the two land destruction spells you had and kept playing threats and more land, Stone Rain looks like freaking garbage. You cast BBE and hit a Courser or Nissa or a Tireless Tracker and instantly achieve Board Parity, resetting the Board when you might have been behind.
BBE was amazing in JUND, not Swans, and it was THE top deck when I played against it in Standard because of VALUE. The point of including BBE in Ponza is two-fold:
A) It synergizes with a massive ramp package to allow for T2 or T3 mana disruption coming off of a body, pushing the deck's main tempo/mana denail plan.
B) It provides you with a value outlet should your main plan fail, much like Tireless Tracker, while also giving you a decent threat to put pressure on less interactive decks.
So basically, just run a package that allows for 75-80% chance of a positive hit off of BBE, and you'll get either Stone Rain on a Haste body, or good value to put pressure on the opponent. I simply can't imagine NOT playing BBE in Ponza, to be perfectly honest.
Shall we tell CoCo decks they should stop running CoCo due to the 10-15% chance that they'll hit nothing when they cast it?
BBE into a mana dork is just a risk we have to take. its not like they printed evoke or suspend farseeks to give us acceleration that would by pass the CC of the cascade.
BBE is going to be terrible in this deck. You guys are already talking about cutting BoP, weakening the T2 options which have long been a major success factor for Ponza. Someone started talking about Rabblemaster, FFS. There are only two placed BBE is going to be worth it's slot: Jund and Assault - and Assault already get's better value from its Blue cards.
Think it through: BBE is a hasty 3/2 that gives you a random <4 drop. A 3/2 for 4 in Modern is already unplayable. Cascade would often make the card worth thinking about, but only if you can control what you're going to hit. Let me tell you, cascading into Utopia Sprawl is never going to feel good. Same thing goes for the elf. So what are you hoping for? Blood Moon and Stone Rain? On T4! Guess what I want to be casting on 4. Titan! Or Dragon! I'm hoping to already have Blood Moon in play by then, or have already hit Stone Rain and Acid Moss. Moreover...if I haven't, I'm prolly losing and BBE isn't going to turn anything around for me.
Here's another thought: How often are you going to look at BBE and Stone Rain in your hand and decide to cast BBE? The correct answer is pretty much never. If you are about to lose to Shadow and need the blocker is pretty much the only thing I can think of, and that's not a winning line.
Go ahead and test the hell out of it, but I played BBE a ton when he was in standard (He was amazing in Swans) and won't be wasting time/slots on BBE in Ponza.
I agree with that. Anyway, it's nice with people testing out cards and ideas. But I can't understand how BBE would work well in this deck, sprawl and elf are not amazing to find with BBE.. and on turn 4 I'd rather be casting a dragon, thragtusk, or a primal command.
Been lurking here for awhile and i finally build the deck thanks to a friend helping me with the last pieces.
Here's the list im running now.
2 Mountain
9 Forest
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
Planeswalker: 2
1 Nissa, Vital Force
1 Chandra, Pyromaster
Sorcery: 8
2 Primal Command
2 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4 Stone Rain
4 Blood Moon
4 Utopia Sprawl
Instant: 4
4 Lighting Bolt
Creature: 16
4 Arbor Elf
2 Tireless Tracker
1 Courser of Kruphix
4 Goblin Rabblemaster
1 Pia and Kiran Nalaar
1 Hazoret the Fervent
2 Thragtusk
1 Inferno Titan
3 Crumble To Dust
2 Ancient Grudge
1 Reclamation Sage
3 Abrade
1 Dismember
1 Thragtusk
2 Pyroclasm
2 Anger of the Gods
I need some help with my list. Theres 3 blue tron players, 5 affinity players and some burn/humans/sultai tempo/Death Shadow/zoo and two jeskai control players.
What do you guys recommend? I know i need atleast one thrun, the last troll in the 75. I was thinking of adding 2-3 birds of paradise for getting my thee drops out faster. A friend recommended blood sun
Any advice for my sideboard would be helpfull.
is that correct?
Yup. That's right. Elf hasn't resolved yet. Can't sac it.
-You're probably going to want to run Lightning Bolt, and Bonfire is worse now.
-Molten Rain might be playable over Acid Moss if you want to lower your curve
-Goblin Rabblemaster is maybe worth testing again
-Shrinking on dorks (AKA "cutting the two birds") has another argument in its favor
Cascading into a Blood Moon is gonna feel good.
I was never a fan of Inferno Titan, but I still think 2-4 curve toppers is fine (I prefer x2 Stormbreath Dragon, x1 Acidic Slime, and x1 Hazoret the Fervent anyway + the newly reintroduced Bloodbraid Elf), especially if you keep Acid Moss in-deck. Even without birds, curving into mana acceleration is real, so having 5-6 drops is a good idea.
Once I have done more play testing I will post what I have found is a solid list.
I'd still run Beast Within as a 1-2 of MB, especially for the next two weeks while everyone forces Jace into every deck they have. Worst case scenario, you can pop their land and trade the token with BBE.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Played against Hollow Call and Sultai Delver (with Jace in it, though he didn't see it in our games). Felt phenomenal most of my games. Might need to go to 22 lands and a single Molten Rain instead of Acid-Moss, but it was a good start, for sure!
Think it through: BBE is a hasty 3/2 that gives you a random <4 drop. A 3/2 for 4 in Modern is already unplayable. Cascade would often make the card worth thinking about, but only if you can control what you're going to hit. Let me tell you, cascading into Utopia Sprawl is never going to feel good. Same thing goes for the elf. So what are you hoping for? Blood Moon and Stone Rain? On T4! Guess what I want to be casting on 4. Titan! Or Dragon! I'm hoping to already have Blood Moon in play by then, or have already hit Stone Rain and Acid Moss. Moreover...if I haven't, I'm prolly losing and BBE isn't going to turn anything around for me.
Here's another thought: How often are you going to look at BBE and Stone Rain in your hand and decide to cast BBE? The correct answer is pretty much never. If you are about to lose to Shadow and need the blocker is pretty much the only thing I can think of, and that's not a winning line.
Go ahead and test the hell out of it, but I played BBE a ton when he was in standard (He was amazing in Swans) and won't be wasting time/slots on BBE in Ponza.
BBE was amazing in JUND, not Swans, and it was THE top deck when I played against it in Standard because of VALUE. The point of including BBE in Ponza is two-fold:
A) It synergizes with a massive ramp package to allow for T2 or T3 mana disruption coming off of a body, pushing the deck's main tempo/mana denail plan.
B) It provides you with a value outlet should your main plan fail, much like Tireless Tracker, while also giving you a decent threat to put pressure on less interactive decks.
So basically, just run a package that allows for 75-80% chance of a positive hit off of BBE, and you'll get either Stone Rain on a Haste body, or good value to put pressure on the opponent. I simply can't imagine NOT playing BBE in Ponza, to be perfectly honest.
Shall we tell CoCo decks they should stop running CoCo due to the 10-15% chance that they'll hit nothing when they cast it?
This is the real deciding factor: Are we willing to take that risk? Personally, I'm not.
I agree with that. Anyway, it's nice with people testing out cards and ideas. But I can't understand how BBE would work well in this deck, sprawl and elf are not amazing to find with BBE.. and on turn 4 I'd rather be casting a dragon, thragtusk, or a primal command.
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