1. It makes me wish blood moon cantriped
2. It's bad and not worth playing in our deck, it's too narrow.
3. It turns Karoo lands into Sol lands. So maybe it will see some sneaky play in amulet decks.
1. It makes me wish blood moon cantriped
2. It's bad and not worth playing in our deck, it's too narrow.
3. It turns Karoo lands into Sol lands. So maybe it will see some sneaky play in amulet decks.
2) Do you think it might have a place in the SB? It can strand fetchlands in peoples' hands as effectively than Blood Moon can, and makes them even more worthless since it doesn't give them t: Add R to your mana pool., and draws you a card. So in fetchland-heavy matchups, it can be pretty good; against Valakut, it's clearly very good; elsewhere it's not great but might see some accidental value. The fact that it cantrips is big - it's never ever going to be a 3-mana do nothing.
3) Amulet player here. I highly doubt it. The bounce part of Karoo lands is highly exploitable in those decks - playing the same Simic Growth Chamber 2-3 times in a turn and making lots of mana that way is hard to pass up. Also, if your first combo enabler is coming down on t3, you're in trouble - ideally you want to go t1-2 get an Amulet, t3 ramp (e.g. Azusa), t4 Titan, smash your face in. Planning out a combo that goes off on t5 or later is somewhat defeatist.
I don't think 'more blood moons' is going in the board. I do like the cantrip, and yes it hammers fetches and Valakut, but so does moon. And do we need moon 5-8? I don't think so.
I agree about the current amulet deck, but maybe some other deck. Lands that etb untapped and tap for 2 mana is pretty rad.
1. It makes me wish blood moon cantriped
2. It's bad and not worth playing in our deck, it's too narrow.
3. It turns Karoo lands into Sol lands. So maybe it will see some sneaky play in amulet decks.
2) Do you think it might have a place in the SB? It can strand fetchlands in peoples' hands as effectively than Blood Moon can, and makes them even more worthless since it doesn't give them t: Add R to your mana pool., and draws you a card. So in fetchland-heavy matchups, it can be pretty good; against Valakut, it's clearly very good; elsewhere it's not great but might see some accidental value. The fact that it cantrips is big - it's never ever going to be a 3-mana do nothing.
3) Amulet player here. I highly doubt it. The bounce part of Karoo lands is highly exploitable in those decks - playing the same Simic Growth Chamber 2-3 times in a turn and making lots of mana that way is hard to pass up. Also, if your first combo enabler is coming down on t3, you're in trouble - ideally you want to go t1-2 get an Amulet, t3 ramp (e.g. Azusa), t4 Titan, smash your face in. Planning out a combo that goes off on t5 or later is somewhat defeatist.
I don't think 'more blood moons' is going in the board. I do like the cantrip, and yes it hammers fetches and Valakut, but so does moon. And do we need moon 5-8? I don't think so.
I agree about the current amulet deck, but maybe some other deck. Lands that etb untapped and tap for 2 mana is pretty rad.
I agree, I don't think it's going to see play in our deck: we already shut off/blow up the other guy's lands, and this is going to make our fetches that we draw after we power this out Turn 2 useless. That's really bad, since we need them to play our 4-6 drops that win us the game.
As an aside, I seriously can't believe they printed a red landhate card that blows the fetches all the fair decks use away while leaving the lands that make 2-3 mana untouched. Gj, Wizards.
It’s terrible overall. They needed to make a card to keep all these flip lands in check in standard so they made this to cover themselves.
With that said, let’s go over what in modern this covers. It takes out utility lands, manlands, and fetch lands. So what does that look like?
Well for utility lands we have in modern all varieties of Ghost Quarter type lands, Valakut, and Gavony Township that see significant play (there are other cards like Emeria that see fringe play but not currently a reasonable part of the meta to worry about).
As for manlands the only ones that see play are the Inkmoth/Blinkmoth duo, Celestial Collanade, Raging Ravine, and Mutavault (similarly fringe played cards in Creeping Tarpit and Shambling Vent).
Then the main argument to run the card is fetchland denial. Well unless you are mono red you will be effected as well.
So what does this information mean overall? Unless you are weak to control and Valakut type decks you are better off using something else that covers more decks (by the way Blood Moon still better against both those decks and quite a few more). The undisputed truth about modern is there are so many styles of decks out there and you only get 15 sideboard slots to fill them with so picking such a narrow card is a bad idea in general.
As an update while I haven’t played much with Hazoret I can say I see why it should be in deck. I had 2 cards in hand with open mana and it made my opponent unsure if they should attack. I am going to do some more testing but so far I like the concept and what little I have played with it.
1. Are you still running the deck?
2. If yes, have to updated the build?
3. Is the SCG build list right? You mentioned using more than 1 Magus of the Moon several times in your reddit post, but the SCG deck list shows 1.
4. Noice.
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Standard
Tempo Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I am trying out some proxy testing for a bunch of different decks, but I am still working on Eldritch Ponza. I have removed the Fury Giant guy, as he just feels too situational. I'm testing out Lotus Cobras instead of Birds, but other than that, not many changes. There is only one Magus in the deck, correct.
So I was a Ponza player before the deck really took off and became a well-known archetype. Despite my love of the deck, I eventually put it down due to how inconsistent it felt to play.
It had a lot of bad starting hands, requiring aggressive mulliganing. Often times you would keep drawing into the wrong half of the deck (either ramp without payoff, or payoff without ramp, etc.). When everything went according to plan, playing Ponza made me feel unstoppable, but more often the deck just lost to itself.
Looking at the current list on MTGGoldfish, I see it is now running a playset of Tireless Tracker and a couple copies of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Do these additions improve consistency in a meaningful way? I would love to give it another go… Few things in MTG feel better than turn 2 Acid Moss into turn 3 Inferno Titan, imo.
So I was a Ponza player before the deck really took off and became a well-known archetype. Despite my love of the deck, I eventually put it down due to how inconsistent it felt to play.
It had a lot of bad starting hands, requiring aggressive mulliganing. Often times you would keep drawing into the wrong half of the deck (either ramp without payoff, or payoff without ramp, etc.). When everything went according to plan, playing Ponza made me feel unstoppable, but more often the deck just lost to itself.
Looking at the current list on MTGGoldfish, I see it is now running a playset of Tireless Tracker and a couple copies of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Do these additions improve consistency in a meaningful way? I would love to give it another go… Few things in MTG feel better than turn 2 Acid Moss into turn 3 Inferno Titan, imo.
You don't need ramp when you aren't playing silly beaters like Inferno titan, and are instead using excess lands as a pay off for cards like tracker.
You don't need ramp when you aren't playing silly beaters like Inferno titan, and are instead using excess lands as a pay off for cards like tracker.
Every list I look at is still playing a couple copies of Inferno Titan, even the "Ponza Monsters" decks. Not sure what kind of point you're trying to make.
Earlier iterations lacked any way to regain card advantage after setting up a LD/Moon lock, so if the opponent could maneuver around the mana denial the Ponza player struggled to retain momentum. Chandra, Tracker, and Courses offer both mana sinks and CA on bodies that also win games (less so for courser, but the life gain is real).
Mana sinks are also important. Pia and Kiran Nalar, chameleon colossus, stormbreath Dragon, in addition to tracker and Chandra let you land a single threat and amplify it's value if variance hides the rest of your threats from the top of your deck.
Chandra, Courser, and Tracker are huge consistency engines for the deck, and if you land a courser alongside either of the others after some regular land disruption, it's hard to lose.
Trackers also give an alternative curve from the standard dork into moon/rain. You can go dork into tracker into turn 3 moss and end the turn with 2 clues. Or you can use tracker as a pseudo 4 drop by playing it turn 3 after a moon/rain and playing land for turn to get a clue. Having multiple on-curve lines assists consistency.
P&K shores up some pretty weak MU's as well. And I still love me some inferno titan!
Earlier iterations lacked any way to regain card advantage after setting up a LD/Moon lock, so if the opponent could maneuver around the mana denial the Ponza player struggled to retain momentum. Chandra, Tracker, and Courses offer both mana sinks and CA on bodies that also win games (less so for courser, but the life gain is real).
Mana sinks are also important. Pia and Kiran Nalar, chameleon colossus, stormbreath Dragon, in addition to tracker and Chandra let you land a single threat and amplify it's value if variance hides the rest of your threats from the top of your deck.
Chandra, Courser, and Tracker are huge consistency engines for the deck, and if you land a courser alongside either of the others after some regular land disruption, it's hard to lose.
Trackers also give an alternative curve from the standard dork into moon/rain. You can go dork into tracker into turn 3 moss and end the turn with 2 clues. Or you can use tracker as a pseudo 4 drop by playing it turn 3 after a moon/rain and playing land for turn to get a clue. Having multiple on-curve lines assists consistency.
P&K shores up some pretty weak MU's as well. And I still love me some inferno titan!
splashing for grim flayer, like a tracker flayer is another good card for keeping up pressure and consistency.
Earlier iterations lacked any way to regain card advantage after setting up a LD/Moon lock, so if the opponent could maneuver around the mana denial the Ponza player struggled to retain momentum. Chandra, Tracker, and Courses offer both mana sinks and CA on bodies that also win games (less so for courser, but the life gain is real).
Mana sinks are also important. Pia and Kiran Nalar, chameleon colossus, stormbreath Dragon, in addition to tracker and Chandra let you land a single threat and amplify it's value if variance hides the rest of your threats from the top of your deck.
Chandra, Courser, and Tracker are huge consistency engines for the deck, and if you land a courser alongside either of the others after some regular land disruption, it's hard to lose.
Trackers also give an alternative curve from the standard dork into moon/rain. You can go dork into tracker into turn 3 moss and end the turn with 2 clues. Or you can use tracker as a pseudo 4 drop by playing it turn 3 after a moon/rain and playing land for turn to get a clue. Having multiple on-curve lines assists consistency.
P&K shores up some pretty weak MU's as well. And I still love me some inferno titan!
splashing for grim flayer, like a tracker flayer is another good card for keeping up pressure and consistency.
Grim Flayer is an interesting splash... the card is powerful for sure and does aid consistency, but I have 3 initial issues in my mind with it; the black splash in a blood moon deck, and the CMC of 2, which is not a CMC that fits our curve. The 3rd is that we don't usually very quickly achieve delirium. How do you find these 3 issues?
Jund Ponza seems sweet if we can pull it off though!
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Modern Decks
------------ URW Jeskai Control GUWRB Amulet Titan GR Ponza
Another tuesday night another sweet result for ponza. I went 3-1. Lost to Affinity 2-1 in the first round, beat Eldrazi tron, Ad Nauseam and infect. All 2-0
Earlier iterations lacked any way to regain card advantage after setting up a LD/Moon lock, so if the opponent could maneuver around the mana denial the Ponza player struggled to retain momentum. Chandra, Tracker, and Courses offer both mana sinks and CA on bodies that also win games (less so for courser, but the life gain is real).
Mana sinks are also important. Pia and Kiran Nalar, chameleon colossus, stormbreath Dragon, in addition to tracker and Chandra let you land a single threat and amplify it's value if variance hides the rest of your threats from the top of your deck.
Chandra, Courser, and Tracker are huge consistency engines for the deck, and if you land a courser alongside either of the others after some regular land disruption, it's hard to lose.
Trackers also give an alternative curve from the standard dork into moon/rain. You can go dork into tracker into turn 3 moss and end the turn with 2 clues. Or you can use tracker as a pseudo 4 drop by playing it turn 3 after a moon/rain and playing land for turn to get a clue. Having multiple on-curve lines assists consistency.
P&K shores up some pretty weak MU's as well. And I still love me some inferno titan!
splashing for grim flayer, like a tracker flayer is another good card for keeping up pressure and consistency.
Grim Flayer is an interesting splash... the card is powerful for sure and does aid consistency, but I have 3 initial issues in my mind with it; the black splash in a blood moon deck, and the CMC of 2, which is not a CMC that fits our curve. The 3rd is that we don't usually very quickly achieve delirium. How do you find these 3 issues?
Jund Ponza seems sweet if we can pull it off though!
utopia sprawl on black typically gets the job done. my deck runs unbridled growth as well in 4 spots. trypically you see decks that run traverse the ulvenwald use mishra's bauble in 4 spots for the same reason of achieving delirium. I just see more value in unbridled growth as it can color fix if needed. So thats part of my delirium strategy.
I'm not exactly sure why the CMC curve of 2 is bothering you? 2cmc for a 4/4 is good value.
Another tuesday night another sweet result for ponza. I went 3-1. Lost to Affinity 2-1 in the first round, beat Eldrazi tron, Ad Nauseam and infect. All 2-0
How did you beat And Nauseam?
I played a friendly match yesterday, he won G1 with moon out, 3 red lands, bloom, sac bloom for 3 black, 1 black and 1 red for prism, 1 white for grace and the rest for As Nauseam... G2 went well, I have 3 Slaugther Games in sideboard (with 1 Overgrown Tomb between manabase), turn 3 on Ad Naudeam.
G3 started similar, but he was on the play, I put T2 Trinisphere but he casted Ad Nauseam with Slaugther Games on the stack. Very hard matchup.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Funny story. I left my abrades and a copy of swealtering suns in my standard deck at home, so I needed 4 cards for my side board. I opened a mates folder and grabbed the first 4 cards that tickled my fancy. x1 lightning bolt, x1 dismember. x2 Jace, vryns prodigy. Jace came in against ad nause and infect. Game 1 ad naus mulled to 4, game 2 turn 2 jace, turn 3 stone rain turn 4 jace flashed back stone rain bought me the extra turns for Hazdonga to finish the match.
one other thing about delirium, the other deck i play is the green devotion. they seem to thinking that Jadelight Ranger is a solid card to filtering/filling up the graveyard.
I'll definitely be trying her alongside grim flayer.
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2. It's bad and not worth playing in our deck, it's too narrow.
3. It turns Karoo lands into Sol lands. So maybe it will see some sneaky play in amulet decks.
I don't think 'more blood moons' is going in the board. I do like the cantrip, and yes it hammers fetches and Valakut, but so does moon. And do we need moon 5-8? I don't think so.
I agree about the current amulet deck, but maybe some other deck. Lands that etb untapped and tap for 2 mana is pretty rad.
Makes me wish Lotus Vale, Scorched Ruins and Lake of the dead were modern legal!
As an aside, I seriously can't believe they printed a red landhate card that blows the fetches all the fair decks use away while leaving the lands that make 2-3 mana untouched. Gj, Wizards.
With that said, let’s go over what in modern this covers. It takes out utility lands, manlands, and fetch lands. So what does that look like?
Well for utility lands we have in modern all varieties of Ghost Quarter type lands, Valakut, and Gavony Township that see significant play (there are other cards like Emeria that see fringe play but not currently a reasonable part of the meta to worry about).
As for manlands the only ones that see play are the Inkmoth/Blinkmoth duo, Celestial Collanade, Raging Ravine, and Mutavault (similarly fringe played cards in Creeping Tarpit and Shambling Vent).
Then the main argument to run the card is fetchland denial. Well unless you are mono red you will be effected as well.
So what does this information mean overall? Unless you are weak to control and Valakut type decks you are better off using something else that covers more decks (by the way Blood Moon still better against both those decks and quite a few more). The undisputed truth about modern is there are so many styles of decks out there and you only get 15 sideboard slots to fill them with so picking such a narrow card is a bad idea in general.
A few questions.
1. Are you still running the deck?
2. If yes, have to updated the build?
3. Is the SCG build list right? You mentioned using more than 1 Magus of the Moon several times in your reddit post, but the SCG deck list shows 1.
4. Noice.
Tempo
Modern
Eldrazi and Staxes
Whir Prison
Legacy
5c Humans
DnT
"I'm a lead farmer... !" Quote ruined due to policy.
I am trying out some proxy testing for a bunch of different decks, but I am still working on Eldritch Ponza. I have removed the Fury Giant guy, as he just feels too situational. I'm testing out Lotus Cobras instead of Birds, but other than that, not many changes. There is only one Magus in the deck, correct.
It had a lot of bad starting hands, requiring aggressive mulliganing. Often times you would keep drawing into the wrong half of the deck (either ramp without payoff, or payoff without ramp, etc.). When everything went according to plan, playing Ponza made me feel unstoppable, but more often the deck just lost to itself.
Looking at the current list on MTGGoldfish, I see it is now running a playset of Tireless Tracker and a couple copies of Chandra, Torch of Defiance. Do these additions improve consistency in a meaningful way? I would love to give it another go… Few things in MTG feel better than turn 2 Acid Moss into turn 3 Inferno Titan, imo.
You don't need ramp when you aren't playing silly beaters like Inferno titan, and are instead using excess lands as a pay off for cards like tracker.
Every list I look at is still playing a couple copies of Inferno Titan, even the "Ponza Monsters" decks. Not sure what kind of point you're trying to make.
Earlier iterations lacked any way to regain card advantage after setting up a LD/Moon lock, so if the opponent could maneuver around the mana denial the Ponza player struggled to retain momentum. Chandra, Tracker, and Courses offer both mana sinks and CA on bodies that also win games (less so for courser, but the life gain is real).
Mana sinks are also important. Pia and Kiran Nalar, chameleon colossus, stormbreath Dragon, in addition to tracker and Chandra let you land a single threat and amplify it's value if variance hides the rest of your threats from the top of your deck.
Chandra, Courser, and Tracker are huge consistency engines for the deck, and if you land a courser alongside either of the others after some regular land disruption, it's hard to lose.
Trackers also give an alternative curve from the standard dork into moon/rain. You can go dork into tracker into turn 3 moss and end the turn with 2 clues. Or you can use tracker as a pseudo 4 drop by playing it turn 3 after a moon/rain and playing land for turn to get a clue. Having multiple on-curve lines assists consistency.
P&K shores up some pretty weak MU's as well. And I still love me some inferno titan!
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
splashing for grim flayer, like a tracker flayer is another good card for keeping up pressure and consistency.
Grim Flayer is an interesting splash... the card is powerful for sure and does aid consistency, but I have 3 initial issues in my mind with it; the black splash in a blood moon deck, and the CMC of 2, which is not a CMC that fits our curve. The 3rd is that we don't usually very quickly achieve delirium. How do you find these 3 issues?
Jund Ponza seems sweet if we can pull it off though!
------------
URW Jeskai Control
GUWRB Amulet Titan
GR Ponza
utopia sprawl on black typically gets the job done. my deck runs unbridled growth as well in 4 spots. trypically you see decks that run traverse the ulvenwald use mishra's bauble in 4 spots for the same reason of achieving delirium. I just see more value in unbridled growth as it can color fix if needed. So thats part of my delirium strategy.
I'm not exactly sure why the CMC curve of 2 is bothering you? 2cmc for a 4/4 is good value.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
Funny story. I left my abrades and a copy of swealtering suns in my standard deck at home, so I needed 4 cards for my side board. I opened a mates folder and grabbed the first 4 cards that tickled my fancy. x1 lightning bolt, x1 dismember. x2 Jace, vryns prodigy. Jace came in against ad nause and infect. Game 1 ad naus mulled to 4, game 2 turn 2 jace, turn 3 stone rain turn 4 jace flashed back stone rain bought me the extra turns for Hazdonga to finish the match.
I'll definitely be trying her alongside grim flayer.