I'm reading the Monster Ponza lists are running 4 Stone Rain's and 2 Mwonvuli Acid Moss, and I'm wondering with the inclusion of 3 or 4 Tireless Trackers in the main why exactly this is happening? It appears to be nothing more than a curve consideration because the synergy with Mwonvuli Acid Moss and Tracker seems pretty tempting to try more copies of Acid Moss.
beause turn 2 stone rain wins games. Turn 2 moss is very rare and turn 3 moss, while often nice, is also slow and sometimes feel bad. You don't wanna moss flood.
- missing removal (Got rekt by Dark Confidant and double Dark Confidant)
- had two really bad rounds vs 8-Rack when I kept bad hands (inexperienced with the deck :D)
- Huntmaster never survived even for one round
Played a nice Match vs Burn where Trinisphere was the matchwinner paired with Stone Rain for his third land and double Thragtusk to stay alive.
Got rekt by 8-Rek (hah.) when I did not see a Baloth and he denied me everything - Smallpox way too stronk.
Then faced Sultai-Value where I simply died to the overwhelming Draws of his Bobs.
Last match Grixis Deaths Shadow - we never played actually since Blood Moon and Trinisphere followed by double Stone Rain prevented him from playing anything.
Overall nice deck, would love to get some advice on removal in this deck - would love to fit in a playset Lightning Bolts or something similar.
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"From my rotting body,
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity."
I play no real removal main. Only 2 beast within, 2 Pia and Kiran and 2 Inferno titan. Board I play 3 anger 3 bolts. But I can't imagine boarding them in againt a sultai deck. Just kill them. Or moon them.
What's the general consensus on Thragtusk vs Obstinate Baloth? I'm always tweaking my list and there was a point in time when I ran both, but lately I've moved away from Baloth in favor of Thragtusk. In the majority of matches I've played, I seem to get more value out of Thragtusk; with the exception of LotV's +1, I seldom run into discard that isn't of my opponent's choosing, so that's the main reason why I decided to drop Baloth, personally. And even though Thragtusk has pretty much been relegated to my SB, I'm curious about the situations where we'd prefer Baloth?
On another note, has anybody tried running a Crumble to Dust and, if so, what were your thoughts? I can see how it could wind up being an over-costed Stone Rain at times, but it also seems like it would provide us with a ton of information in regards to the exact makeup of our opponent's deck. I noticed it used to be played as a 1 of in older Ponza builds, so I'm assuming there must be a reason why it eventually fell out of favor?
Thragtusk is a better card tha Baloth, But Baloth is the better card in the match where you need it. Burn. He comes down sooner and is just as hard to deal with
Crumbum is great against tron. A match where we need no favors.
I tried a version with 21 lands (9 fetchs) to make Tireless Trackers even better, with a list similar to @Moonbreaker1072 posted here http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/dank-ponza/
with a few tweaks :
9th fetches
Ooze -> Trinisphere
1 P&K -> Third Chandra ToD
It was only friendly matches against GDS, Utron, Eldra BW Tax, Ad Nauseam
I don't know why, but I had to mulligan every hand, and went to mull 5 a lot of time, and got wrecked from it.
Mainly mull caused by having less than 2 lands (0 or 1) or more than 4
I could say that my average starting hand size was <= 6, am I doing something wrong?
I feel that I shuffle enough, but... is that just bad luck
Quick report :
Against GDS :
Mulligans are a pain against discard decks
Cham Colossus is auto win
I had some wonderings, where I could StoneRain Watery Grave or Blood Crypt for example, and it seems like blue is better to kill, how do you feelabout this?
Against Utron :
Being first helps a lot, Thrun is great sb
Against EldraTax :
Blood moon is huge, Aether Vial is dumb.
Having no sweepers MB is a problem.
Against Ad Nauseam :
Trinisphere is quite autowin, otherwise, I had no real solutions MB
If you count utopia sprawls as land you will mull less often. Do not count elves as sprawls. It will end in heartbreak.
Hey y’all I am making the switch to Ponza from Burn due to local meta hate for Burn (ie people playing Soul Sisters or a deck that is a White Weenie variation with Leyline of Sanctity and Kor Firewalker in the main). I think Ponza should do well in my meta. I’m curious though how well the deck does against ETron, Affinity, and U/W control (all players use pretty close to stock lists). Any other advice is welcome.
Hey y’all I am making the switch to Ponza from Burn due to local meta hate for Burn (ie people playing Soul Sisters or a deck that is a White Weenie variation with Leyline of Sanctity and Kor Firewalker in the main). I think Ponza should do well in my meta. I’m curious though how well the deck does against ETron, Affinity, and U/W control (all players use pretty close to stock lists). Any other advice is welcome.
Welcome to the party. I can only offer anecdotal information, but there are a handful of folks in the thread who can give you more accurate matchup percentages. IME, all tron variants have been very favorable matchups with the exception of E-tron; it's more resilient, but puts up a tougher fight. Affinity has been a middle of the road matchup for me; you need to hit their mana base early and it's the one deck that keeps me from removing Bonfires from my MB. I've yet to play against U/W control, so no opinions in that regard.
Only went 2-2 at modern last night!!! Beat 5 color deaths shadow 2-1 and Abzan 2-0. But then lost 2-1 to U/W control, losing a very very very tight game 1 to what I think was a misplay, but the lads think was a decision too tough to call, Winning game 2 resoundingly then getting destroyed game 3 by double spell queller when I had not sided for that plan.
Then, in the ultimate game of shame. I lost 2-0 to Breach titan!!!! Game 1 no bloodmoon hand, but a good hand none the less, but the game went a turn too long and I died. Game 2 mull to 6, no moon, but 5 good cards and a ancient grudge (this player is known for his SB cruciables) then I draw a 2nd grudge off the top after bottoming my scry. He wins pretty handily. I am dumb.
Was a rough night. Here's my 'misplay' against U/W and I wanna hear opinions...
My board is Pia and Kiran, 2 Arbor elf, 2 thops. I have 8 mana including the elves, and it's all open. U/w is on 9 life. I have a beast within as my last card. My opponent has no permanents. And has 2 cards in hand after he casts his Gideon of the trials, and ticks up targeting pia and kiran. I tell him I may have responses and I go into the tank.
Line 1. If I throw a thop at my opponent in response, then beast within my own land that had been spreading seas'd in his end step I put him to 1 life in my attack step. If I do not throw the thop but beast within the land anyway he goes to 2. 2 life is no different than 1 for this deck I felt so I didn't want to throw the thop at my opponent. So beast within my land and attack for 7 is line 1...
Line 2. But should I throw both thops at Gideon? Kill the G dog, beast within my land and attack my opponent down to 4 with 2 elves and a beast was the 2nd line.
Line 3. No response to Gideon, cast beast within targeting gideon in my opponents next upkeep, after attacking my opponent for 4 in my turn. Down to 5 life. Depending on what card I draw for turn I guess.
Line 1 has the highest ceiling, but the lowest floor if he has supreme verdict. I went for it... and was punished. Supreme verdict goes boom, and Gideon runs away with the game. I felt it was a strict misplay looking back.
Yeah, another important detail. When attacked before blocks my opponent cast snapcaster, block an arbor elf path to exile pia and kiran. So my line of putting him to 2 to kill with thop in upkeep failed, then got rekt by verdict
ug infect is not good for us in my expirience, as well as mono-colored aggro decks. ad nauseum suspend 2+ lotus blooms in turn 1 is almost gg. affinity doesn't care that much about LD with opals, drums and darksteel lands.
Affinity gets WAY better after Sb. Game 1 is like 70-30 in their favor with 2 being us slightly favored on the play, and an evenish game 3.
Infect is bad, But a turn 2 Pia and Kiran is nigh unbeatable. And bringing in spot removal after SB is obviously decent.
Other tough matches are mono colored decks with focused game plans like Elves, Merfolk and mono white D&T.
Outstanding feedback! Looking at most posts it looks like there is still some debate on what the “stock” main deck is supposed to be but I am curious as to what people are choosing for sb especially against mono color aggro decks. I am guessing most people are running 2 sweepers mb which people are back and forth between Mortars and Bonfire. Are most packing 3-4 more sweepers like Anger or Firespout?
i'm playing 3 sweepers main (anger+2 bonfires), 2 sb(angers). also sweltering suns seems maindeckable instead of anger, but i haven't any.
without them 1st game against go-wide decks is bad, and even if you win the second one, third game will be on the draw, and sometimes in my opinion we are too slow for it. so i prefer to have a chances in game 1 in cost of having dead draws g1 against some other decks
i'm playing 3 sweepers main (anger+2 bonfires), 2 sb(angers). also sweltering suns seems maindeckable instead of anger, but i haven't any.
without them 1st game against go-wide decks is bad, and even if you win the second one, third game will be on the draw, and sometimes in my opinion we are too slow for it. so i prefer to have a chances in game 1 in cost of having dead draws g1 against some other decks
This is similar to what I run, except different sweepers: 3 MB (2 Mortars + 1 Bonfire) & 2 SB Angers.
1 Mountain
3 Stomping Ground
4 Windswept Heath
4 Wooded Foothills
4 Arbor Elf
2 Birds of Paradise
4 Utopia Sprawl
1 Chameleon Colossus
3 Huntmaster of the Fells
2 Inferno Titan
1 Obstinate Baloth
3 Stormbreath Dragon
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
3 Thragtusk
1 Primal Command
4 Stone Rain
3 Blood Moon
3 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
1 Chandra, Flamecaller
3 Anger of the Gods
2 Obstinate Baloth
1 Shatterstorm
2 Trinisphere
1 Blood Moon
2 Chameleon Colossus
1 Huntmaster of the Fells
1 Vandalblast
Mostly played SkRed this year but decided to go for something else this FNM.
+ Dropping Trinisphere, Chandra Torch of Defiance or Blood Moon T2 feels great :>
+ Crippling your opponent with Stone Rain and Mvonwuli-Acid Moss to drop Stormbreath after is a solid move
+ Chameleon Colossus is a nice card in the actual metagame around here
- missing removal (Got rekt by Dark Confidant and double Dark Confidant)
- had two really bad rounds vs 8-Rack when I kept bad hands (inexperienced with the deck :D)
- Huntmaster never survived even for one round
Played a nice Match vs Burn where Trinisphere was the matchwinner paired with Stone Rain for his third land and double Thragtusk to stay alive.
Got rekt by 8-Rek (hah.) when I did not see a Baloth and he denied me everything - Smallpox way too stronk.
Then faced Sultai-Value where I simply died to the overwhelming Draws of his Bobs.
Last match Grixis Deaths Shadow - we never played actually since Blood Moon and Trinisphere followed by double Stone Rain prevented him from playing anything.
Overall nice deck, would love to get some advice on removal in this deck - would love to fit in a playset Lightning Bolts or something similar.
flowers shall grow
and I am in them
and that is eternity."
On another note, has anybody tried running a Crumble to Dust and, if so, what were your thoughts? I can see how it could wind up being an over-costed Stone Rain at times, but it also seems like it would provide us with a ton of information in regards to the exact makeup of our opponent's deck. I noticed it used to be played as a 1 of in older Ponza builds, so I'm assuming there must be a reason why it eventually fell out of favor?
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Crumbum is great against tron. A match where we need no favors.
If you count utopia sprawls as land you will mull less often. Do not count elves as sprawls. It will end in heartbreak.
You're missing out on dem sweet free wins.
Welcome to the party. I can only offer anecdotal information, but there are a handful of folks in the thread who can give you more accurate matchup percentages. IME, all tron variants have been very favorable matchups with the exception of E-tron; it's more resilient, but puts up a tougher fight. Affinity has been a middle of the road matchup for me; you need to hit their mana base early and it's the one deck that keeps me from removing Bonfires from my MB. I've yet to play against U/W control, so no opinions in that regard.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
Then, in the ultimate game of shame. I lost 2-0 to Breach titan!!!! Game 1 no bloodmoon hand, but a good hand none the less, but the game went a turn too long and I died. Game 2 mull to 6, no moon, but 5 good cards and a ancient grudge (this player is known for his SB cruciables) then I draw a 2nd grudge off the top after bottoming my scry. He wins pretty handily. I am dumb.
Was a rough night. Here's my 'misplay' against U/W and I wanna hear opinions...
My board is Pia and Kiran, 2 Arbor elf, 2 thops. I have 8 mana including the elves, and it's all open. U/w is on 9 life. I have a beast within as my last card. My opponent has no permanents. And has 2 cards in hand after he casts his Gideon of the trials, and ticks up targeting pia and kiran. I tell him I may have responses and I go into the tank.
Line 1. If I throw a thop at my opponent in response, then beast within my own land that had been spreading seas'd in his end step I put him to 1 life in my attack step. If I do not throw the thop but beast within the land anyway he goes to 2. 2 life is no different than 1 for this deck I felt so I didn't want to throw the thop at my opponent. So beast within my land and attack for 7 is line 1...
Line 2. But should I throw both thops at Gideon? Kill the G dog, beast within my land and attack my opponent down to 4 with 2 elves and a beast was the 2nd line.
Line 3. No response to Gideon, cast beast within targeting gideon in my opponents next upkeep, after attacking my opponent for 4 in my turn. Down to 5 life. Depending on what card I draw for turn I guess.
Line 1 has the highest ceiling, but the lowest floor if he has supreme verdict. I went for it... and was punished. Supreme verdict goes boom, and Gideon runs away with the game. I felt it was a strict misplay looking back.
Infect is bad, But a turn 2 Pia and Kiran is nigh unbeatable. And bringing in spot removal after SB is obviously decent.
Other tough matches are mono colored decks with focused game plans like Elves, Merfolk and mono white D&T.
without them 1st game against go-wide decks is bad, and even if you win the second one, third game will be on the draw, and sometimes in my opinion we are too slow for it. so i prefer to have a chances in game 1 in cost of having dead draws g1 against some other decks
This is similar to what I run, except different sweepers: 3 MB (2 Mortars + 1 Bonfire) & 2 SB Angers.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.