Control. I like relics. **** snapcaster mage. Also helps in a topdeck war. Matchup is good for us anyway
Burn. You are making a CLASSIC mistake here. Unless it's mono red burn keep your moons IN!!! They play no plains or forests. My other deck is burn and moon beats us up bad. I have won so many games against burn where I have mooned them and it saved me from 3 or 4 burn spells. Take out all the moss and the some stonerains instead.
Deaths shadow. Put in relics. Pop them early and often. You can take away their ability to T2/T3 tas/fish. Also cripples snaps. Cut bonefires, and LD. But bear in mind Chandra and Garruk aren't the best here, as they can be hit by stubby d.
Abzan. Your plan seems fine. Maybe bring in anger if they are more low to the ground and ligering souls based.
Tron. Bonefires out, trinisheres and a single grudge in.
Scapeshift. Bring in fracturing gust, maybe ancient grudge as well. They play artifacts and enchantments out of the board like prismatic omen or cruciable of worlds. Also some are moving to chalice.
Affinity. I don't love finks here. Maybe keep 3 stone rains in, can be relevant if you don't hit a moon, or if you use it to destroy a citadel under a moon.
I like your board for the next 3 matchups, I would bring in trinisphere against zoo.
do NOT remove blood moons against burn. Its counterinquitive, but just go with it once and watch the burn player die with a hand of atarka's, boros charms and helixes.
unless its RW burn, which iirc can fight around blood moon. then yea that plan is fine.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
The plan against Burn is keep them on one spell a turn. Trinisphere is the best at this, but Blood Moon can do the same thing. Plus in post board games, some number of Burn players bring in Defectig Palm which can get around our beloved Stormbae.
So is Bonfire coming out of the board for more creatures? I have had mixed experiences with bonfire, from frustrating to just straight up stealing games from the jaws of defeat. And if we leave bonfire in, do we run 3 or 4? I was running 4 and was leaning towards keeping them in.
Does baral/electromancer counteract the effects of trinisphere at all? For example if both are in play does manamorphose cost 2?
Just skimmed over the past couple pages or so. I always felt that the 2 birds or 2 beast within could never be cut because it throws the "math off" of the deck. Like, you want to be statistically likely to play a mana dork on turn one, then a land destruction spell the next. We should be running 8.57 mana dorks and 13.333 land destruction spells blah blah blah. I like 10 mana dorks though because it lets you mulligan to 6 nicely. 10 out of 60 is roughly the same as 1 out of 6. This deck has no 2 drops too.
So I have been play testing a fun variant of this deck it seems to playing pretty well, it still the basically shell for the Ponza deck but dragon themed. I don't know if this has ever been tested before but it has been a lot of fun and see my opponents reaction. I have been play testing it on cockatrice but not yet a FNM which is the plan once I get a chance. Here is the list I am playing, My curve isn't horrible and I bet this variant can be tinkered with but it has been fun
I think the dragon theme is cool. My suggestions would be test with only 21 or 22 lands, cut cinderglades for basic forests, and play some chandras instead of 2 mainboard angers and World render. Your deck looks sweet though, Thunderbae will always have a place in my heart.
I'm still big on bonfire with affinity/merfolk/humans/hatebears and the like floating around. Buuuutttt bonfire does top deck at the wrong times though.
Yeah, **** nissa, but I disagree on pia and Kiran, and somewhat huntmaster. In games where you have locked your opponent out the fatties are better, but in live games, Pia and Kiran are monsterous!
I'm still not a fan of this list. The Trackers are good, but both Huntmaster/Pia and Kiran feel just worse than our 'traditional' threats.
And Nissa.....she's so bad.
Hmm, I assumed it was the Kaladesh Nissa; didn't know the OGW version was being tinkered with. I've played around with Huntmaster & Tracker, but never gave P&K much thought; on paper, it definitely looks like there's a solid synergy there that would allow us to go wide if necessary. As someone who has never been in the Bonfire fan club, I dig P&K's versatility in the sense that we can sack thopters/clues in order to ping our opponent or finish off a creature that's still standing following a resolved Anger. Not to mention beefing up Tracker in the process. It certainly allows for another line of play, but I suppose the question is whether that's worth dedicating that many creature slots which would otherwise typically be additional copies of Titan/Stormbreath + your flex threats (Wurmcoil/Thragtusk/Chameleon Colossus/Thrun/etc)?
IMO, I think it's a perfectly viable build that cuts a few of our big threats, but allows us to quickly build up a board presence and go wide with flyers & tokens before closing out the game with a Stormbreath/Titan. I see how the Nissa synergizes with this line of play, but she's essentially useless until the token-generators are resolved. I think I'm going to tinker around with this build, sans Nissa, for a bit and feel it out.
That 3 drop Nissa seemed pretty good when I played against it in standard. Modern is a different format but for 3 mana it doesn't seem like you could ask for much more. She's probably slow but cranking out a token every turn seems great. I was debating running her or a lightning bolt going forward.
I think obstinate baloth is an easy switch out for huntmaster. I'd rather have the token. Baloth is getting killed too easily, and traditional bg/x is kinda gone.
There's also some games where there's not a lot of action because the opponent is blood mooned out or something and I could see the huntmaster going to town.
Oh and with people cutting inferno titans and bumping up chandra to 2 (which is kinda-ish a mana source) could this deck go down to 20 lands?
Cutting down to 20 lands would lower the draws where you get T2 Blood Moon by enough to lose a lot game 1 when our opponents may not aggressively get a basic.
While it's anyone's guess what may actually happen, I think it's worth discussing how a potential un-ban could impact the deck. One particular card of concern, Bloodbraid Elf, has me thinking about how it could warp the format should it ever be deemed Modern legal again. Obviously, BBE doesn't play nice with the "typical" lists that have been popping up from tourney results, however, I think it's something that could be adopted by a build oriented around Goblin Dark-Dwellers. Thinking of the format outside of Ponza itself, BBE would almost surely be jammed as a 4 of into Jund & Zoo decks.
Personally, I think that any potential un-ban would be something that helps out White and/or Blue. I've always thought a BBE un-ban would warp the format and thus never really expected it to actually come off the B&R list. However with classic Jund being a Tier 3 deck as of late, it's a possibility that I've been pondering. Thoughts?
Burn. You are making a CLASSIC mistake here. Unless it's mono red burn keep your moons IN!!! They play no plains or forests. My other deck is burn and moon beats us up bad. I have won so many games against burn where I have mooned them and it saved me from 3 or 4 burn spells. Take out all the moss and the some stonerains instead.
Deaths shadow. Put in relics. Pop them early and often. You can take away their ability to T2/T3 tas/fish. Also cripples snaps. Cut bonefires, and LD. But bear in mind Chandra and Garruk aren't the best here, as they can be hit by stubby d.
Abzan. Your plan seems fine. Maybe bring in anger if they are more low to the ground and ligering souls based.
Tron. Bonefires out, trinisheres and a single grudge in.
Scapeshift. Bring in fracturing gust, maybe ancient grudge as well. They play artifacts and enchantments out of the board like prismatic omen or cruciable of worlds. Also some are moving to chalice.
Affinity. I don't love finks here. Maybe keep 3 stone rains in, can be relevant if you don't hit a moon, or if you use it to destroy a citadel under a moon.
I like your board for the next 3 matchups, I would bring in trinisphere against zoo.
unless its RW burn, which iirc can fight around blood moon. then yea that plan is fine.
BGW Elves BGW|BW Tokens BW|WBR Sword&ShieldWBR|BUG DelverBUG|UWR Kiki UWR | UR Storm UR
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Does baral/electromancer counteract the effects of trinisphere at all? For example if both are in play does manamorphose cost 2?
4 Arbor Elf
2 Dragonlord Atarka
2 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Thunderbreak Regent
1 Atarka, World Render
Enchantment
3 Blood Moon
4 Utopia Sprawl
Instant
2 Draconic Roar
Sorcery
2 Anger of the Gods
4 Molten Rain
3 Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
2 Primal Command
4 Stone Rain
3 Cinder Glade
5 Forest
3 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
4 Stomping Ground
4 Wooded Foothills
1 Anger of the Gods
2 Creeping Corrosion
2 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Obstinate Baloth
1 Pithing Needle
2 Shattering Spree
2 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Wheel of Sun and Moon
http://sales.starcitygames.com//deckdatabase/displaydeck.php?DeckID=116824
Are we starting to corner our 'meta list'
Hmm, I assumed it was the Kaladesh Nissa; didn't know the OGW version was being tinkered with. I've played around with Huntmaster & Tracker, but never gave P&K much thought; on paper, it definitely looks like there's a solid synergy there that would allow us to go wide if necessary. As someone who has never been in the Bonfire fan club, I dig P&K's versatility in the sense that we can sack thopters/clues in order to ping our opponent or finish off a creature that's still standing following a resolved Anger. Not to mention beefing up Tracker in the process. It certainly allows for another line of play, but I suppose the question is whether that's worth dedicating that many creature slots which would otherwise typically be additional copies of Titan/Stormbreath + your flex threats (Wurmcoil/Thragtusk/Chameleon Colossus/Thrun/etc)?
IMO, I think it's a perfectly viable build that cuts a few of our big threats, but allows us to quickly build up a board presence and go wide with flyers & tokens before closing out the game with a Stormbreath/Titan. I see how the Nissa synergizes with this line of play, but she's essentially useless until the token-generators are resolved. I think I'm going to tinker around with this build, sans Nissa, for a bit and feel it out.
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.
There's also some games where there's not a lot of action because the opponent is blood mooned out or something and I could see the huntmaster going to town.
Oh and with people cutting inferno titans and bumping up chandra to 2 (which is kinda-ish a mana source) could this deck go down to 20 lands?
RBGLiving EndRBG
EDH
UFblthpU
BRXantchaRB
BGVarolzGB
URWZedruuWRU
Personally, I think that any potential un-ban would be something that helps out White and/or Blue. I've always thought a BBE un-ban would warp the format and thus never really expected it to actually come off the B&R list. However with classic Jund being a Tier 3 deck as of late, it's a possibility that I've been pondering. Thoughts?
Link to Discord server where anybody from MTGS can keep up with thread topics while everything is being sorted out with the new site.