LGS tonight. I was testing the full on Goblin Dark-Dwellers version of the deck. It played well, and I didn't ever see a GDDwhen I didn't have a target to make use of it. I still think that the list needs to be heavier on threats.
2-0 EldraTron
2-0 Bye
1-2 Burn
2-0 UW Control
Burn:
Game 1 on the play. He never untaps with a land. I'm at 5, He's topdecking. I Pull through.
Game 2 I don't get online or see my boarded in Finks or Trinisphere.
Game 3 Still don't see board cards, I'm racing him. I'm at 4. He topdecks Boros Charm.
I honestly can't get on board with running Kessig Wolf Run. You'll basically never get to use it since in 90% of the matchups, you want blood moon T2. I can't say it's a card I ever felt "Geez, if only I had KWR right now!".
Why are lists still running it? I'd much rather have a forest. There's an awful lot of RR in your list. Spreading seas wrecks you pretty hard if your opponent knows what they are doing. Wouldn't the KWR be better off as a mountain?
Personally I didn't think Hazoret was good enough. 5/4 for 4 is not great stats. Path easily takes it out (and it's played in basically every deck that isn't GDS so don't know why you'd think there are less). In my experience, it just doesn't impact the board enough to warrant a slot.
cdbowlin: There are two things that are problematic for the deck: Enchantments and burn. Burn can be beat pretty easily with resolving a Trinishipere on T2. You can then just get a head of them and overpower them.
Enchantments are another issue and that's why the SB needs to change a bit to be able to adapt to that. Run Destructive Revelry instead of Grudges.
I honestly can't get on board with running Kessig Wolf Run. You'll basically never get to use it since in 90% of the matchups, you want blood moon T2. I can't say it's a card I ever felt "Geez, if only I had KWR right now!".
Why are lists still running it? I'd much rather have a forest. There's an awful lot of RR in your list. Spreading seas wrecks you pretty hard if your opponent knows what they are doing. Wouldn't the KWR be better off as a mountain?
I saw the problem of Kessig Wolf Run and Blood Moon from word go, so I didn't even bother including it. I personally feel that with Utopia Sprawl on red, and 8 fetches, 1 Mountain, 2 Stomping Ground, and 1 Cinder Glade is enough to get all the R required.
Personally I didn't think Hazoret was good enough. 5/4 for 4 is not great stats. Path easily takes it out (and it's played in basically every deck that isn't GDS so don't know why you'd think there are less). In my experience, it just doesn't impact the board enough to warrant a slot.
I tested Hazoret the Fervent and Rhonas the Indomitable before. I hated Hazoret every time I saw it. Purposely playing cards at inopportune times or discarding them for the 2 damage just so it can attack / block did not feel good (especially since it cost 3 more mana per card discarded).
Rhonas was much better as all the other threats kept it online, some of which are immune to common removal. And it can supply trample when needed, which Kessig Wolf Run could, but Rhonas does it regardless of if Blood Moon is out or not. Definitely worth at least 1 slot in the deck.
cdbowlin: There are two things that are problematic for the deck: Enchantments and burn. Burn can be beat pretty easily with resolving a Trinishipere on T2. You can then just get a head of them and overpower them.
Enchantments are another issue and that's why the SB needs to change a bit to be able to adapt to that. Run Destructive Revelry instead of Grudges.
Depending on the amount of lifegain cards you have in the 75 (Primal Command, Thragtusk, Kitchen Finks, etc), while still a tough match, Burn doesn't seem to be that bad. I still keep Moons in against them as it shuts off the splash colours (and thus 4+ cards are made dead) and any utility lands. Trinisphere is still good against them.
Enchantment hate is something the sideboard needs. There's a rise in enchantment strategies, and we are in green. The problem is that we need to be cautious because some of ours are important to keep around (Moon and Sprawl).
I wanted to try Hazoret because my local meta has 4 people who play lantern control. In the tournament last night he was a good early clock off a mull to 5 but that was it. I'm not sold on Hazoret or the KWG. I primarily need help in the dedicated U/W/X control matchup, Discard heavy decks, and death and taxes.
Hello fellow land destruction enthusiasts. My name is Caleb. I have been playing Ponza for almost 2 months now and my list has changed a lot since my first iteration. Where I have really struggled with the deck so far is sideboarding. I have trouble knowing what all to have in it and what to take out. I'm leaving a link to my list on tappedout. Please take a look and give me some advice. Before you look though, I am trying to get Chandra TOD #2 and at least 2 trinisphere currently. http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/01-07-17-rg-ponza/
Are there any particular match ups that you are struggling with side boarding? Or are you just looking for some general advice?
I need help with U/W/X control, discard heavy strategies, and death and taxes.
I need help with U/W/X control, discard heavy strategies, and death and taxes.
I don't know if it's just pure luck on my part or the way I play the game, but these strategies, while annoying, have never been a problem for me. I can tell you how I generally board against these types. Take out what is most likely to be dead cards (often creature removal) and bring in more threat that have to be answered, starting with the lowest mana cost creatures and working up until you've filled all the creature removal gaps. Then while playing, play extremely aggressive (something is bound to swing once or twice), and / or bait out the counters and removal. The exception here is if you have access to stuff they can't answer (maybe because of indestructible, protection, etc.) or some cards that wrecks their win condition (enchantment / artifact removal, etc.), which takes priority over the Aggro plan.
Discard strategies tend to go into topdecking. If you board properly, you can top deck pretty well. Cards with Flashback (or similar) and cards that let you reuse cards in the graveyard (like Goblin Dark-Dwellers) help you get value out of the discarded cards.
Against Death and Taxes, often the taxes are creature based, so your sweepers will go a long way.
I personally haven't had the chance, but I know a few people here certainly have and I've heard little to no complaint about it. It does come down to what slot you want to allocate it to. We have a limited amount of room for the customisation. Mote than most decks, but still limited.
I hated the idea of Kessig from the get go. I won a game off of it and I told my friend next to me that I still would have rather had a basic. But its been in my list the last few weeks because I hadn't yet seen it without Blood Moon and wanted the fully rounded experience. Now I have.
I also was wary of all the RR on that list.
But don't bring what I think is the best version of the deck to my LGS, I try to test out new things.
This time I was solidly impressed, It really felt able to stick to plan A and still never flood on too much LD. Color was never a problem, generally I shocked myself once more a match, and payed closer attention to what I searched up, but no actual problems. Occasionally I wished I had more finishing power.
Next week Fracturing Gust is going in the board. It's definitely slower but affinity can't come back from that, let alone the life swing. Instant to punish overcommitment. Boggles is coming back. Wx Prison is a deck. Enchantment Combo decks are an actual thing now. I think it might be our best option there and will test thusly.
A singleton Gemstone Caverns is an interesting run in any deck. A Moon deck especially.
Let's start off by asking if it is good enough when we are on the draw. Let's go with a 7 card opening hand and seeing 7 more cards throughout the game.
thats a 50% of being a very good 100% would run card and a 50% chance of being bad. At which point there is a 74% chance that we have seen our Blood Moon where it is as good as any of our other non-basics. (I could factor turn for turn but that's a lot of math and the numbers come fairly close anyway) (but it is bad as a turns 2&3 land)
On the draw Gemstone Caverns is definitely good enough for the deck. On the play it definitely isn't.
Considering an even meta, 50% of all games we are going second. (Unless we are willing to give that up for a singleton, you shouldn't)
So, would you run a terrible land for a 50% chance of epic? If your list isn't too red heavy I'd try it. Especially as a 22nd land that you could cut for games 2&3 if you're in the play.
I already made the shift to 22 lands and would definitely not play the mines. Reason being is that even the small risk of this being your only land in your opener is horrendous enough to make it not worth running. Every card matters in our opener. If your hand is filled with 4-5 drops and you have a caverns, would you still keep that hand? Of course not. This is definitely not a card for this deck.
I'm considering moving Trinisphere to the main. THat card does an unreal amount of work. I find myself siding it in pretty often (Tron being the exception). I've even brought it in versus Titan shift as it prevents them from ramping out early. Keeping them off mountains after that is key to prevent them from casting a chandra.
Do you often keep hands that are full of 4 or 5 drops anyway despite the hand? You mull it back, what land you had doesn't make a difference there.
It's not like you need it every game or we are running 4 it's a gamble that happens to be better for us that most decks. I'm not arguing that it's the best card ever, but if you feel like RNG is in your favor, why not?
Trinisphere is very maindeckable. I don't like it for my meta but totally support it for anyone's who's does.
I played ponza at my LGS weekly modern event for the first time this week. I am a long time burn player, who decided to move into the business of blowing up lands. My list is a dark dwellers list trying to make full use of GDDs utility. I won the event without dropping a single game. Beating affinity, burn and grixis midrange. I can't stress enough how good dark dwellers is in any given matchup. So much utility.
I played ponza at my LGS weekly modern event for the first time this week. I am a long time burn player, who decided to move into the business of blowing up lands. My list is a dark dwellers list trying to make full use of GDDs utility. I won the event without dropping a single game. Beating affinity, burn and grixis midrange. I can't stress enough how good dark dwellers is in any given matchup. So much utility.
Would you mind sharing your list? I'm looking to try out a GDD list.
I only get to play my list about evert fortnight (small group, we cycle formats weekly), but I'll give match reports if / when I face off against tier decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
2-0 EldraTron
2-0 Bye
1-2 Burn
2-0 UW Control
Burn:
I handily win all my other games.
4x Blood Moon
4x Utopia Sprawl
Planeswalker (2)
2x Chandra, Torch of Defiance
Sorcery (11)
3x Molten Rain
3x Mwonvuli Acid-Moss
4x Stone Rain
1x Sweltering Suns
Creature (13)
4x Arbor Elf
2x Birds of Paradise
4x Goblin Dark-Dwellers
3x Stormbreath Dragon
4x Lightning Bolt
1x Beast Within
Land (21)
1x Cinder Glade
8x Forest
1x Kessig Wolfrun
4x Misty Rainforest
1x Mountain
2x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Ancient Grudge
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Boil
2x Faerie Macabre
3x Trinisphere
2x Kitchen Finks
2x Thrun, the Last Troll
Why are lists still running it? I'd much rather have a forest. There's an awful lot of RR in your list. Spreading seas wrecks you pretty hard if your opponent knows what they are doing. Wouldn't the KWR be better off as a mountain?
Personally I didn't think Hazoret was good enough. 5/4 for 4 is not great stats. Path easily takes it out (and it's played in basically every deck that isn't GDS so don't know why you'd think there are less). In my experience, it just doesn't impact the board enough to warrant a slot.
cdbowlin: There are two things that are problematic for the deck: Enchantments and burn. Burn can be beat pretty easily with resolving a Trinishipere on T2. You can then just get a head of them and overpower them.
Enchantments are another issue and that's why the SB needs to change a bit to be able to adapt to that. Run Destructive Revelry instead of Grudges.
I tested Hazoret the Fervent and Rhonas the Indomitable before. I hated Hazoret every time I saw it. Purposely playing cards at inopportune times or discarding them for the 2 damage just so it can attack / block did not feel good (especially since it cost 3 more mana per card discarded).
Rhonas was much better as all the other threats kept it online, some of which are immune to common removal. And it can supply trample when needed, which Kessig Wolf Run could, but Rhonas does it regardless of if Blood Moon is out or not. Definitely worth at least 1 slot in the deck.
Depending on the amount of lifegain cards you have in the 75 (Primal Command, Thragtusk, Kitchen Finks, etc), while still a tough match, Burn doesn't seem to be that bad. I still keep Moons in against them as it shuts off the splash colours (and thus 4+ cards are made dead) and any utility lands. Trinisphere is still good against them.
Enchantment hate is something the sideboard needs. There's a rise in enchantment strategies, and we are in green. The problem is that we need to be cautious because some of ours are important to keep around (Moon and Sprawl).
I have also used Seal of Primordium as well when I was using Nissa, Vital Force.
I need help with U/W/X control, discard heavy strategies, and death and taxes.
Discard strategies tend to go into topdecking. If you board properly, you can top deck pretty well. Cards with Flashback (or similar) and cards that let you reuse cards in the graveyard (like Goblin Dark-Dwellers) help you get value out of the discarded cards.
Against Death and Taxes, often the taxes are creature based, so your sweepers will go a long way.
I personally haven't had the chance, but I know a few people here certainly have and I've heard little to no complaint about it. It does come down to what slot you want to allocate it to. We have a limited amount of room for the customisation. Mote than most decks, but still limited.
I hated the idea of Kessig from the get go. I won a game off of it and I told my friend next to me that I still would have rather had a basic. But its been in my list the last few weeks because I hadn't yet seen it without Blood Moon and wanted the fully rounded experience. Now I have.
I also was wary of all the RR on that list.
But don't bring what I think is the best version of the deck to my LGS, I try to test out new things.
This time I was solidly impressed, It really felt able to stick to plan A and still never flood on too much LD. Color was never a problem, generally I shocked myself once more a match, and payed closer attention to what I searched up, but no actual problems. Occasionally I wished I had more finishing power.
Next week Fracturing Gust is going in the board. It's definitely slower but affinity can't come back from that, let alone the life swing. Instant to punish overcommitment. Boggles is coming back. Wx Prison is a deck. Enchantment Combo decks are an actual thing now. I think it might be our best option there and will test thusly.
Let's start off by asking if it is good enough when we are on the draw. Let's go with a 7 card opening hand and seeing 7 more cards throughout the game.
thats a 50% of being a very good 100% would run card and a 50% chance of being bad. At which point there is a 74% chance that we have seen our Blood Moon where it is as good as any of our other non-basics. (I could factor turn for turn but that's a lot of math and the numbers come fairly close anyway) (but it is bad as a turns 2&3 land)
On the draw Gemstone Caverns is definitely good enough for the deck. On the play it definitely isn't.
Considering an even meta, 50% of all games we are going second. (Unless we are willing to give that up for a singleton, you shouldn't)
So, would you run a terrible land for a 50% chance of epic? If your list isn't too red heavy I'd try it. Especially as a 22nd land that you could cut for games 2&3 if you're in the play.
I'm considering moving Trinisphere to the main. THat card does an unreal amount of work. I find myself siding it in pretty often (Tron being the exception). I've even brought it in versus Titan shift as it prevents them from ramping out early. Keeping them off mountains after that is key to prevent them from casting a chandra.
It's not like you need it every game or we are running 4 it's a gamble that happens to be better for us that most decks. I'm not arguing that it's the best card ever, but if you feel like RNG is in your favor, why not?
Trinisphere is very maindeckable. I don't like it for my meta but totally support it for anyone's who's does.
Would you mind sharing your list? I'm looking to try out a GDD list.
I know it's new so it'll have it's share of bugs.
I only get to play my list about evert fortnight (small group, we cycle formats weekly), but I'll give match reports if / when I face off against tier decks.