Also, I was just curious how many people are playing the Creatureless/Pyromancer versions of the deck because they feel it's the superior version or because of budget concerns related to Tarmogoyf/Bob/Liliana. By no means is this to imply decks with those money cards are better. I just want to get an idea of where people are coming from.
I recently finished putting a paper version of this together, and just land-base itself (forget Goyfs/Bobs/Lilis) dictated that I run straight RG Pyromancer.
I'm actually still on the fence between Young Pyromancer and Pyromancer Ascension. I run a few ascension board just so I can blank removal in game 2 and I really like it. It has a lot more variance than Young'un, but when you get it online, you just overwhelm your opponent so quickly its absurd, and this possibly the easiest deck ever to get it up and running.
Although maybe its because my meta isn't terribly aggressive/Zoo oriented.
Also, I was just curious how many people are playing the Creatureless/Pyromancer versions of the deck because they feel it's the superior version or because of budget concerns related to Tarmogoyf/Bob/Liliana. By no means is this to imply decks with those money cards are better. I just want to get an idea of where people are coming from.
I actually own a jund deck and my first iteration of assault loam was just squeezing 4 loam, 3 Raven's crime and 3 assualt into a jund shell. The thing that steered me away from the goyf + bob shell was that every tier 1 deck had some way of dealing with jund's typical threats, admittedly this was pre DRS banning but I imagine it's still true. I also struggled with life loss, bob deals a lot of damage and to get maximum value out of the loam package you're usually best off fetching every turn which ends up draining quite a lot of life, it wasn't uncommon to find myself dead to a top-decked lightning bolt. I think the cost barrier stops most people experimenting with the deck, which is why there's little interest in it.
For me it is for both reasons. I do own the bobs and could play the list with those and knights but i really wanted to have a deck with both pyro and souls. I don't own goyfs though, and in general i just don't like the card even though i know they are super powerful. Lili i own some as well but i don't know what to take out for them, i guess i could take out my 2nd flame jab for one copy? Would it be worth it? At x1 she'll just get dredged in most games...
For me, I wouldn't ever play less than 3 Liliana in a deck. If she's good In a deck, she's deserving of at least 3 slots. She's a walker that certainly warrants her inclusion in decent numbers if at all. In the creatureless version I think she's necessary to take some aggro and also help to control the board. In pyromancer versions or other creature versions she probably isn't as necessary.
Hi everyone. I built a Loam Assault deck some time ago and have been playing it recently, since Loam / Assault is my favorite engine besides the unfortunately banned Grove / Punishing Fire. I lack Goyfs and Confidants, so I have tuned my deck to make it more control oriented:
Sometimes the deck is a blast to play and leaves opponents on hopeless topdeck mode, but is prone to fizzling against aggro. My main problem is that I feel on extreme need to assemble the engine or otherwise opponents find their way out of the removal spells. Breeding Pool was there in order to provide a 4th color for Explosives but I haven't found it necessary. Academy Ruins was there to provide some artifact recursion but I suspect I already win the very long game.
My main objective now is to refine my SB, since Death Cloud is there only for sentimental reasons (earning a scoop with it feels so good...). Chalice is awesome against Storm or aggro on the play. I plan to board the Thoughtseizes against either combo or control of the blue type. I'm struggling to find a universal aggro answer: in my area Robots, Merfolk are Zoo are the aggro suspects. Since I have a bunch of 1 for 1s ready, I ideally want lifegain but can't think of anything realistic: Kitchen Finks were awful and promptly removed.
So far I haven't faced graveyard hate but I'm really afraid of either Rest in Peace or a Surgical Extraction on Loam which can come from anyone. Is there a effective transformative plan? I don't feel that weak with Explosives and Crushers but it's not that they require a lot of resources in order to hate on the deck.
Suggestions? Other than Goyf and Confidant, I'm open to anything.
Abrupt decay as a 4 of main board comes to mind. Losing the epochrasite seems really good as well. Young Pyromancer seems pretty good as well. I woud usggest dropping the explosives from the main board and replace cloud in the sideboard for them. Death cloud is exceptionally slow, explosives is mostly better from the board rather than in the main. You should probably attempt to run 3 liliana of the veil main board with a flame jab or two. I think these changes would immensely improve your deck. Not sure how it runs so far, but I think those are some of the main changes that I would make to your list. I would drop the blue unless you are planning to splash blue in the deck that isn't just academy ruins. You could use something like desperate ravings to help you protect a loam in your yard at instant speed. Then you would have a use for 1 or 2 blue sources in your mainboard. If you run a blue source, you probably want steam vents to help you with casting assault rather than loam.
For some reason I always forgot about Abrupt Decay in Modern; it makes a lot of sense since sometimes explosives for 2 is slow.
I'm dropping blue, have you run into mana issues with Tectonic Edge or is it nice as a 2 of in the MD?
I'm on the fence about Young Pyromancer, since he dies to every removal spell in the format and is poor at blocking the turn he comes into play. Is the plan to divert their mana on removal with him or am I supposed to keep him on the hand and drop it until the game is under control?
I already have the full set of Lilianas in the MD, do you mean I should drop one?
I have been running a single ghost quarter mainboard to give me an edge against tron and uwr control game 1. I keep a pair in the board in the event that I do need extras. I haven't really run into any mana issues with them as of yet.
If he eats an abrupt decay that means your assaults are that much safer, he is decent to drop later in the game as well since once the board is clear and we can load up on retrace spells we can close out a game quickly that way. It is really up to you. He just seems a lot better as a 2 drop than the other guy you are running.
I like having a flame jab in the mix for the added removal that doesn't mind being dredged away into the yard. Liliana is great regardless. It really depends on what you think works best for you.
Actually i recently cut both my ghost quarters and added more color producing lands. I had some color issues from time to time since the deck is pretty color hungry. Once in a while i had to GQ myself to fix my mana, which is pretty awkward... I rarely needed the GQ anyways. Since i made the switch, no more color problems! Maybe in the 27 lands versions you can afford some colorless lands but in the 4 color 25 lands version i think we can't.
Pyro is super good everytime i draw him. Vs all of those combo decks that don't interact with you they are a pretty aggressive clock. Against fair decks you can just wait until you emptied your opponent's hand or play them and get some value the same turn.
Another change i made is cut one inquisition for a 4th raven's crime. Crime is sooo awesome we want to see them every game. I'll also be trying 2x vengeful pharaoh in the board, somebody here suggested them and they seem pretty good.
For those who play lili, the synergy with pharaoh is hilarious since it will trigger when the opponent tries to kill her in combat
EDIT: bojuka bog and pendelhaven added because why not.
Haven seems downright horrible here. Are you actually that concerned about pumping tokens that you'll be Making a lot of anyway?
Pharaoh Will trigger after Liliana takes damage, but it certainly seems decent repellant for attacking creatures regardless. I always thought he was a neat option for us.
My list doesn't run souls so perhaps the color requirements aren't such an issue for me as they are for you 4 color players.
I can't cut ghost quarter since I actively see at least 1 Tron deck a week. There is also a decent account of uwr control. It's just too good in my meta.
Dark blast was something I meant to mention the other day. Seems ok my only issue is that it has the same effect as flame jab and also ends up taking a turn where you could have dredged a Loam for more value most likely.
If you haven't needed ghost quarter there is no reason to add it back in. Especially in a 4 color build. For me in my meta ghost quarter has value game 1 if I see it so there is no reason for me to not run it.
I think a 1:1 split between darkblast and flame jab should be fine, both cards are useless in multiple. If i want to dredge loam i still have the choice to do so. Darkblast is cool when you don't see loam and still want to fill up your grave. Instant speed is nice, you can respond to clique and keep dredging, you can kill infect/affinity manlands, you can set up an ambush with young pyro, you can do tricks with horizon canopy, etc. I'll give it a spin next week.
For my last land slot i want to try dakmor salvage. I think having 6 dredge cards is better than 4. You can play it turn one and smallpox it away back into your grave turn 2. Also sometimes we want to retrace but don't want to spend 2 on loam. Vs blue decks sometimes they counter your loam, which can be annoying and buy them time to take over the game. With salvage you can keep retracing even if you don't have loam or it got surgical extracted.
Well I'd say you're pretty well thought out there. It's use against clique is certainly c decent reason to run blast. Especially against decks that don't really run other creatures
I actually tried pendelhaven today and it is pretty good in fact. Getting more value from tokens by trading with bigger stuff, saving a token from electrolyze is nice.
It is basically a forest with an upside, it can't be that bad...
EDIT: well, ever since i took out GQ i've been facing celestial colonnade decks, of course i'll add it back and then it'll become useless again Salvage hasn't been that useful anyways...
I've tried darkblast and it was alright. I did cut it from my 75 though as it seemed a little worse than the 2nd flame jab. I have been moving some numbers around though and have 1 flame jab and only 3 abrupt decays main, trying to fit in the 4th.
On another note, what would be a good catch-all sideboard for an unknown meta? I have some thoughts but would like to hear from you all.
So far I've found that a sideboard like this works
3 anger of the gods
2 engineered explosive
3 rakdos charm
2 ghost quarter
3 thoughtseize
1 ancient grudge
1 syphon life
I recently finished putting a paper version of this together, and just land-base itself (forget Goyfs/Bobs/Lilis) dictated that I run straight RG Pyromancer.
I'm actually still on the fence between Young Pyromancer and Pyromancer Ascension. I run a few ascension board just so I can blank removal in game 2 and I really like it. It has a lot more variance than Young'un, but when you get it online, you just overwhelm your opponent so quickly its absurd, and this possibly the easiest deck ever to get it up and running.
Although maybe its because my meta isn't terribly aggressive/Zoo oriented.
Haha, I hope you break the 4-color delver-leak-zoo archetype!
I actually own a jund deck and my first iteration of assault loam was just squeezing 4 loam, 3 Raven's crime and 3 assualt into a jund shell. The thing that steered me away from the goyf + bob shell was that every tier 1 deck had some way of dealing with jund's typical threats, admittedly this was pre DRS banning but I imagine it's still true. I also struggled with life loss, bob deals a lot of damage and to get maximum value out of the loam package you're usually best off fetching every turn which ends up draining quite a lot of life, it wasn't uncommon to find myself dead to a top-decked lightning bolt. I think the cost barrier stops most people experimenting with the deck, which is why there's little interest in it.
4 Copperline Gorge
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
3 Blood Crypt
2 Fire-lit Thicket
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Breeding Pool
1 Academy Ruins
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Swamp
4 Countryside crusher
4 Faithless looting
4 Smallpox
4 Life from the Loam
4 Engineered explosives
4 Seismic Assault
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Raven's Crime
1 Worm Harvest
3 Chalice of the void
3 Thoughtseize
2 Death Cloud
2 Vraska the Unseen
Sometimes the deck is a blast to play and leaves opponents on hopeless topdeck mode, but is prone to fizzling against aggro. My main problem is that I feel on extreme need to assemble the engine or otherwise opponents find their way out of the removal spells. Breeding Pool was there in order to provide a 4th color for Explosives but I haven't found it necessary. Academy Ruins was there to provide some artifact recursion but I suspect I already win the very long game.
My main objective now is to refine my SB, since Death Cloud is there only for sentimental reasons (earning a scoop with it feels so good...). Chalice is awesome against Storm or aggro on the play. I plan to board the Thoughtseizes against either combo or control of the blue type. I'm struggling to find a universal aggro answer: in my area Robots, Merfolk are Zoo are the aggro suspects. Since I have a bunch of 1 for 1s ready, I ideally want lifegain but can't think of anything realistic: Kitchen Finks were awful and promptly removed.
So far I haven't faced graveyard hate but I'm really afraid of either Rest in Peace or a Surgical Extraction on Loam which can come from anyone. Is there a effective transformative plan? I don't feel that weak with Explosives and Crushers but it's not that they require a lot of resources in order to hate on the deck.
Suggestions? Other than Goyf and Confidant, I'm open to anything.
I'm dropping blue, have you run into mana issues with Tectonic Edge or is it nice as a 2 of in the MD?
I'm on the fence about Young Pyromancer, since he dies to every removal spell in the format and is poor at blocking the turn he comes into play. Is the plan to divert their mana on removal with him or am I supposed to keep him on the hand and drop it until the game is under control?
I already have the full set of Lilianas in the MD, do you mean I should drop one?
If he eats an abrupt decay that means your assaults are that much safer, he is decent to drop later in the game as well since once the board is clear and we can load up on retrace spells we can close out a game quickly that way. It is really up to you. He just seems a lot better as a 2 drop than the other guy you are running.
I like having a flame jab in the mix for the added removal that doesn't mind being dredged away into the yard. Liliana is great regardless. It really depends on what you think works best for you.
Pyro is super good everytime i draw him. Vs all of those combo decks that don't interact with you they are a pretty aggressive clock. Against fair decks you can just wait until you emptied your opponent's hand or play them and get some value the same turn.
Another change i made is cut one inquisition for a 4th raven's crime. Crime is sooo awesome we want to see them every game. I'll also be trying 2x vengeful pharaoh in the board, somebody here suggested them and they seem pretty good.
EDIT: my new list:
4 Faithless Looting
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
1 Thoughtseize
4 Raven's Crime
1 Flame Jab
4 Smallpox
4 Life From The Loam
4 Lingering Souls
instants: 5
1 darkblast
4 Abrupt Decay
enchantments: 3
3 Seismic Assault
creatures: 4
4 Young Pyromancer
lands: 25
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Arid Mesa
2 Graven Cairns
2 Stomping Ground
1 Blood Crypt
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Horizon Canopy
2 Raging Ravine
1 Treetop Village
1 Pendelhaven
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Duress
3 Anger Of The Gods
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Vengeful Pharaoh
2 Surgical Extraction
2 Syphon Life
2 Engineered Explosives
EDIT:+1 dakmor salvage, +1 darkblast, -1 bojuka bog, -1 flame jab
EDIT2: -1 dakomr salvage, +1 ghost quarter.
For those who play lili, the synergy with pharaoh is hilarious since it will trigger when the opponent tries to kill her in combat
EDIT: bojuka bog and pendelhaven added because why not.
Pharaoh Will trigger after Liliana takes damage, but it certainly seems decent repellant for attacking creatures regardless. I always thought he was a neat option for us.
My list doesn't run souls so perhaps the color requirements aren't such an issue for me as they are for you 4 color players.
I can't cut ghost quarter since I actively see at least 1 Tron deck a week. There is also a decent account of uwr control. It's just too good in my meta.
Edit: i'll also try a darkblast instead of 2nd flame jab. It is similar with pros and cons, additional dredge seems good.
If you haven't needed ghost quarter there is no reason to add it back in. Especially in a 4 color build. For me in my meta ghost quarter has value game 1 if I see it so there is no reason for me to not run it.
For my last land slot i want to try dakmor salvage. I think having 6 dredge cards is better than 4. You can play it turn one and smallpox it away back into your grave turn 2. Also sometimes we want to retrace but don't want to spend 2 on loam. Vs blue decks sometimes they counter your loam, which can be annoying and buy them time to take over the game. With salvage you can keep retracing even if you don't have loam or it got surgical extracted.
It is basically a forest with an upside, it can't be that bad...
EDIT: well, ever since i took out GQ i've been facing celestial colonnade decks, of course i'll add it back and then it'll become useless again Salvage hasn't been that useful anyways...
On another note, what would be a good catch-all sideboard for an unknown meta? I have some thoughts but would like to hear from you all.
3 anger of the gods
2 engineered explosive
3 rakdos charm
2 ghost quarter
3 thoughtseize
1 ancient grudge
1 syphon life