Well, being on a budget is going to impact your deck's effectiveness. I'd recommend sticking to just two colors (RG if that's not apparent, haha). The mana base is going to be the most important part. You'll want to look for Stomping Grounds, finishing off your playset of Copperline Gorge, a Raging Ravine and possibly Treetop Village, and probably 2-3 Fire-Lit Thicket. Goblin Guide should definitely be in there as a 4-of. Lightning Bolt and Faithless Looting in addition to Loams and Assaults as said before...
Kird Ape and Flinthoof Boar are appealing; One for the single mana symbols in their costs, and also because they are pretty cheap. Ash Zealot isn't too expensive, and taking a Bolt to Flashback Faithless Looting shouldn't hinder things if I loot into lands to pitch, or dig up answers.
I hadn't looked at the price of Thrun, the Last Troll since he was standard. I was kind of surprised to see him averaging $10, compared to his $30-$50 before. Even if I grab one, that's be worth it.
Thank you, I'll try to take the time in the near future to hammer out what I want to save up for, and perfect a new list. In the mean time, after some playtesting, I'll see what I can do now with some of the things I already own (Swapping Shard Volley for Lightning Bolt, Desperate Ritual for Manamorphose, etc...)
I played an aggro loam list at a few events last modern season and really enjoyed the list.
Right now im playing Kibler's naya list, but am currently working on this build and im liking where it is heading. Depending on how i do at states this weekend i may end up playing a modern tournament Sunday with this list.
I also thought about dropping the faithless lootings for street wraiths to help combat targeted GY hate(an old legacy dredge trick)
After checking out this article I was inspired to try out this deck. I'm on a budget, so unfortunately, I had to cut the deck down two only two colors. This is what I was looking at:
Before I get yelled at, let me give my explanation for reducing Assault. I put the other copies it to the sideboard, but since my sideboard is incomplete, I decided to omit it. The reason I chose to cut down on it is mostly because I wanted to try out Swath as suggested by article. Swath increases the power of Bolt/Jab/Slag by a ton, and the downside on it is effectively negligible in this deck. It lets Slagstorm kill a lot of Goyfs, makes your Bolts huge, and perhaps most importantly, it turns your Jabs into Bolts which ups your kill speed and removal by a ton.
I've played a few rounds with this on Cockatrice, and it's been decent, but one thing I've noticed is that with the addition of Swath, you really want to "combo" out in one turn, which is awkward since Flame Jab is somewhat mana intensive, and playing lands is a catch-22 with Flame Jab.
Any opinions/comments would be welcome.
I think that's mostly a meta call. If you see a lot of zombies/persist, then yeah, I totally agree that Anger is better. However, our game plan is to make the opponent hit zero life, which Anger does not do. I'll give it a shot anyway though.
You need a way to defend against an early onslaught of creatures and those decks tend to get you to 0 before you do them...if you are slagstorming them for 3 then that seems a bit unnecessary
@ BluishGreen: Your list looks pretty stock but for older versions of the deck. Worm Harvest and Countryside Crusher have generally been dropped as they have been found to be clunky rather than useful. I'd also look into running 3 Raven's Crime MB with the other discard. Liliana of the Veil should probably be in there as well. She is one of the strongest cards in the format and synergizes with our deck. I don't really see a reason not to play her. As should Goyf. I've played lists without him and as few copies as I could but it just works too well with a graveyard based deck. Especially one that runs the unusual card types and is milling itself. My lists have progressively added more and more copies up to the full four. He's just too good.
Also, Blood Moon is our deck's Kryptonite. Trying to set yourself up to not get wrecked by it and still be able to cast Assault throws the entire game plan out of whack and will ultimately hinder you much more than help. I'd replace it with more Ghost Quarters or Sowing Salt (I'm assuming they were in there for the Tron match up).
It looks like a solid list though. Just a bit dated is all. I'm glad you're looking back into the deck. It really is a blast to play and is crazy powerful too.
@ Balefire: Honestly, I'd run Volcanic Fallout over either Slagstorm or Anger of the Gods. Especially with Swath. Uncounterable against UWR is pretty big game and 2 damage is usually good enough for Modern. Anything that lives through that wouldn't die to Slagstorm either.
I wouldn't worry about budget concerns here. I mean, if you want to play the best versions of the deck, you'll need the right cards but the deck is somewhere in the $1000+ range at this point. Dropping that kind of cash is a lot. I don't think anyone would fault you for gradually getting into it. I know I won't anyways. I'd rather have more people on board with playing the deck. Haha.
The main problem I see with Swath is that it puts you 100% in on the graveyard strategy. While we make good use of our 'yard, it leaves you to getting blown out much more. Swath also doesn't boost your Assaults, which are definitely good enough on their own to win games. Flame Jab for 3 sounds good but I'd assume in practice, it is a significant mana investment on any given turn. 2 mana for Loam, then 3 more to get full value from your Jabs. With this deck, it is possible and usually preferable to play the game on 3-4 lands (unless you're on the 'attack with manlands' plan). I'm sure you can tune the deck to accommodate this strategy and I think your list is headed in the right direction; from my experience with Flame Jab I think you'll find it to be less powerful than it sounds on paper.
After checking out this article I was inspired to try out this deck. I'm on a budget, so unfortunately, I had to cut the deck down two only two colors. This is what I was looking at:
Before I get yelled at, let me give my explanation for reducing Assault. I put the other copies it to the sideboard, but since my sideboard is incomplete, I decided to omit it. The reason I chose to cut down on it is mostly because I wanted to try out Swath as suggested by article. Swath increases the power of Bolt/Jab/Slag by a ton, and the downside on it is effectively negligible in this deck. It lets Slagstorm kill a lot of Goyfs, makes your Bolts huge, and perhaps most importantly, it turns your Jabs into Bolts which ups your kill speed and removal by a ton.
I've played a few rounds with this on Cockatrice, and it's been decent, but one thing I've noticed is that with the addition of Swath, you really want to "combo" out in one turn, which is awkward since Flame Jab is somewhat mana intensive, and playing lands is a catch-22 with Flame Jab.
Any opinions/comments would be welcome.
Instead of tribe elder and brownscale I would run young pyromancer and another assault. With all the flame jabs pyromancer just buys you so much time against aggro.
What do you guys think? I'm not sure if Delver is really worth running and Goblin Guide may be better. 24 spells doesn't seem like enough but I guess Visions helps a bit. Really wish I could watch some of his matches...
What do you guys think? I'm not sure if Delver is really worth running and Goblin Guide may be better. 24 spells doesn't seem like enough but I guess Visions helps a bit. Really wish I could watch some of his matches...
I can see why delver would be his choice being a 3/2 flier most of the time and getting in thate evasive damage that they have to answer or assault will tear them apart alongside pyromancer overloading the ground with dudes. I do agree with guide for that quick aggressive hit though. The benefit to delver is that it is less likely to have something large step in front of it and stare it down
Yeah, I can see those sorts of benefits but if you don't play him turn 1 he starts losing a ton of value. Especially if you don't flip him immediately. Late game, Guide is at least a Shock or a 2/2 blocker. I'd make that switch if I were piloting that sort of deck. Also, no counter magic seems odd. Especially if you are running blue over black. Disruption is pretty significant.
I'm looking into adding Cryptic Command to my list. I've been wanting to get a Boomerang effect into the deck but by itself is a bit too narrow and I'd rather have a counter or something like that instead. Cryptic has the versatility to replace the cards I'd be taking out with a similar effect while also adding in the bounce spell. I'm just unsure about the 4cmc (but the triple blue is fine haha).
The switch is -1 Deprive, -1 Thought Scour for +2 Cryptic. I still can't bring myself to run Eternal Witness though. The double green is too much, plus the lack of synergy with Snapcaster. If only Evolution Charm grabbed Enchantments or permanents instead of just Creatures... Haha.
Yeah, I can see those sorts of benefits but if you don't play him turn 1 he starts losing a ton of value. Especially if you don't flip him immediately. Late game, Guide is at least a Shock or a 2/2 blocker. I'd make that switch if I were piloting that sort of deck. Also, no counter magic seems odd. Especially if you are running blue over black. Disruption is pretty significant.
I'm looking into adding Cryptic Command to my list. I've been wanting to get a Boomerang effect into the deck but by itself is a bit too narrow and I'd rather have a counter or something like that instead. Cryptic has the versatility to replace the cards I'd be taking out with a similar effect while also adding in the bounce spell. I'm just unsure about the 4cmc (but the triple blue is fine haha).
The switch is -1 Deprive, -1 Thought Scour for +2 Cryptic. I still can't bring myself to run Eternal Witness though. The double green is too much, plus the lack of synergy with Snapcaster. If only Evolution Charm grabbed Enchantments or permanents instead of just Creatures... Haha.
I definitely agree there. The awesome thing about command is you could simultaneously counter some form of yard hate and return loam to keep it safe since it has the cantrip built it. Or tap down your opponents board and get it for 2 with you guides and have mana open to cast a loam. I think command is a great fit for your deck. I like the change. Keep us updated
I played a few matches today with my deck, and yeah, Young Pyromancer makes all of the difference. Haven't gotten a match with UWR yet, so I'm still unsure on Slagstorm/Fallout. However, I am finding that the burn mode of Slagstorm is less useful than I first thought because getting in "the last 3 points" is not really an issue for this deck. I'm also planning testing Pyromancer Ascension instead of Swath since it's cheaper, far less "all in", and has the benefit of powering up a bunch of other spells.
One thing I came across while editing my deck is Creeping Renaissance. It's more expensive then Loam, and isn't an engine in and of itself, but when it works, it's super-Loam, letting you kill in one turn with Assault out (since you should have plenty of lands in your GY). And as a bonus, you can still use it out of your graveyard if need be (though 7-mana for this deck is rather difficult). I plan on giving it a shot, but I was wondering what you all thought about it.
It's definitely an interesting card. It may just be how my mind has been warped by this format but I really don't like anything that costs more than 3 unless it is going to dramatically pull you ahead (e.g. Bloodbraid Elf, Ajani Vengeant, etc). Renaissance is definitely an auto-win but it requires a particular board state and five mana is a ton. I'd say give it a try as a 1-of (while testing with people start with it in your opening hand and then draw up to seven) and see what you think. I'd be interested to hear what you think of it but it seems a bit too unwieldy for modern.
I tried out Swans but turning your opponents Bolts into Ancestral Recall was too prevalent and led to bad times. I was very underwhelmed playing with it.
I tried out Swans but turning your opponents Bolts into Ancestral Recall was too prevalent and led to bad times. I was very underwhelmed playing with it.
It could really only be useful if you want to win over yard hate and are playing a version with over 30 lands in order to win through a rest in peace. I agree it doesn't seem worthwhile to run in aggro loam. Swan assault it a different form of deck.
I feel like I'm posting this mostly to gain self-assurance, but check this out. I'm on a budget, so this is kind of out of my league, but at least it's proof of concept for a Pyromancer version of the deck.
I feel like I'm posting this mostly to gain self-assurance, but check this out. I'm on a budget, so this is kind of out of my league, but at least it's proof of concept for a Pyromancer version of the deck.
Capt. Nick posted a list a week or 2 ago that went first. That list went 2nd? a few days ago. It definitely makes sense since playing flame jab 2/3 times a turn plus a loam means 4 tokens every turn, which naturally adds up quick. It definitely seems like a solid game plan. Sometimes it is probably best to stick to control pieces over combo pieces like that. Just depends on what style you prefer. Those lists seem more focused on aggro.
Kird Ape and Flinthoof Boar are appealing; One for the single mana symbols in their costs, and also because they are pretty cheap. Ash Zealot isn't too expensive, and taking a Bolt to Flashback Faithless Looting shouldn't hinder things if I loot into lands to pitch, or dig up answers.
I hadn't looked at the price of Thrun, the Last Troll since he was standard. I was kind of surprised to see him averaging $10, compared to his $30-$50 before. Even if I grab one, that's be worth it.
Thank you, I'll try to take the time in the near future to hammer out what I want to save up for, and perfect a new list. In the mean time, after some playtesting, I'll see what I can do now with some of the things I already own (Swapping Shard Volley for Lightning Bolt, Desperate Ritual for Manamorphose, etc...)
4x Dark Confidant
4x Countryside Crusher
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Faithless Looting
2x Flame Jab
2x Raven's Crime
2x Thoughtseize
2x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Life From the Loam
3x Seismic Assault
1x Worm Harvest
3x Blackcleave Cliffs
3x Blood Crypt
2x Fire-Lit Thicket
1x Forest
2x Ghost Quarter
2x Graven Cairns
2x Marsh Flats
1x Misty Rainforest
1x Raging Ravine
2x Stomping Grounds
1x Swamp
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Thoughtseize
1x Ancient Grudge
3x Abrupt Decay
2x Anger of the Gods
2x Blood Moon
2x Choke
3x Dismember
1x Shatterstorm
I played an aggro loam list at a few events last modern season and really enjoyed the list.
Right now im playing Kibler's naya list, but am currently working on this build and im liking where it is heading. Depending on how i do at states this weekend i may end up playing a modern tournament Sunday with this list.
I also thought about dropping the faithless lootings for street wraiths to help combat targeted GY hate(an old legacy dredge trick)
Feedback is helpful.
Thanks all
3x Fire-Lit Thicket
5x Forest
3x Ghost Quarter
4x Mountain
2x Raging Ravine
3x Rootbound Crag
4x Stomping Ground
1x Treetop Village
4x Faithless Looting
4x Flame Jab
4x Life from the Loam
4x Mulch
2x Seek the Horizon
3x Slagstorm
2x Golgari Brownscale
3x Sakura-Tribe Elder
Instant (4)
4x Lightning Bolt
Enchantment (3)
3x Pyromancer's Swath
2x Seismic Assault
Before I get yelled at, let me give my explanation for reducing Assault. I put the other copies it to the sideboard, but since my sideboard is incomplete, I decided to omit it. The reason I chose to cut down on it is mostly because I wanted to try out Swath as suggested by article. Swath increases the power of Bolt/Jab/Slag by a ton, and the downside on it is effectively negligible in this deck. It lets Slagstorm kill a lot of Goyfs, makes your Bolts huge, and perhaps most importantly, it turns your Jabs into Bolts which ups your kill speed and removal by a ton.
I've played a few rounds with this on Cockatrice, and it's been decent, but one thing I've noticed is that with the addition of Swath, you really want to "combo" out in one turn, which is awkward since Flame Jab is somewhat mana intensive, and playing lands is a catch-22 with Flame Jab.
Any opinions/comments would be welcome.
Also, Blood Moon is our deck's Kryptonite. Trying to set yourself up to not get wrecked by it and still be able to cast Assault throws the entire game plan out of whack and will ultimately hinder you much more than help. I'd replace it with more Ghost Quarters or Sowing Salt (I'm assuming they were in there for the Tron match up).
It looks like a solid list though. Just a bit dated is all. I'm glad you're looking back into the deck. It really is a blast to play and is crazy powerful too.
@ Balefire: Honestly, I'd run Volcanic Fallout over either Slagstorm or Anger of the Gods. Especially with Swath. Uncounterable against UWR is pretty big game and 2 damage is usually good enough for Modern. Anything that lives through that wouldn't die to Slagstorm either.
I wouldn't worry about budget concerns here. I mean, if you want to play the best versions of the deck, you'll need the right cards but the deck is somewhere in the $1000+ range at this point. Dropping that kind of cash is a lot. I don't think anyone would fault you for gradually getting into it. I know I won't anyways. I'd rather have more people on board with playing the deck. Haha.
The main problem I see with Swath is that it puts you 100% in on the graveyard strategy. While we make good use of our 'yard, it leaves you to getting blown out much more. Swath also doesn't boost your Assaults, which are definitely good enough on their own to win games. Flame Jab for 3 sounds good but I'd assume in practice, it is a significant mana investment on any given turn. 2 mana for Loam, then 3 more to get full value from your Jabs. With this deck, it is possible and usually preferable to play the game on 3-4 lands (unless you're on the 'attack with manlands' plan). I'm sure you can tune the deck to accommodate this strategy and I think your list is headed in the right direction; from my experience with Flame Jab I think you'll find it to be less powerful than it sounds on paper.
Instead of tribe elder and brownscale I would run young pyromancer and another assault. With all the flame jabs pyromancer just buys you so much time against aggro.
2 Breeding Pool
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
1 Raging Ravine
3 Scalding Tarn
4 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Tarmogoyf
4 Young Pyromancer
Spells: 27
2 Electrolyze
3 Faithless Looting
3 Flame Jab
4 Gitaxian Probe
4 Life from the Loam
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Seismic Assault
4 Serum Visions
3 Ancient Grudge
2 Dismember
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Negate
1 Pongify
2 Rapid Hybridization
2 Sowing Salt
Link: https://www.wizards.com/Magic/Digital/MagicOnlineTourn.aspx?x=mtg/digital/magiconline/tourn/6044631
What do you guys think? I'm not sure if Delver is really worth running and Goblin Guide may be better. 24 spells doesn't seem like enough but I guess Visions helps a bit. Really wish I could watch some of his matches...
I can see why delver would be his choice being a 3/2 flier most of the time and getting in thate evasive damage that they have to answer or assault will tear them apart alongside pyromancer overloading the ground with dudes. I do agree with guide for that quick aggressive hit though. The benefit to delver is that it is less likely to have something large step in front of it and stare it down
I'm looking into adding Cryptic Command to my list. I've been wanting to get a Boomerang effect into the deck but by itself is a bit too narrow and I'd rather have a counter or something like that instead. Cryptic has the versatility to replace the cards I'd be taking out with a similar effect while also adding in the bounce spell. I'm just unsure about the 4cmc (but the triple blue is fine haha).
The new version looks like this:
4 Goblin Guide
4 Tarmogoyf
3 Snapcaster Mage
Spells: 24
2 Thought Scour
4 Lightning Bolt
2 Spell Pierce
3 Izzet Charm
2 Deprive
4 Life from the Loam
4 Seismic Assault
1 Jace Beleren
2 Cryptic Command
2 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
2 Island
1 Mountain
1 Forest
3 Copperline Gorge
1 Raging Ravine
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Cascade Bluffs
3 Ghost Quarter
2 Engineered Explosives
1 Deprive
1 Back to Nature
2 Nature's Claim
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Volcanic Fallout
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Spellskite
2 Dismember
The switch is -1 Deprive, -1 Thought Scour for +2 Cryptic. I still can't bring myself to run Eternal Witness though. The double green is too much, plus the lack of synergy with Snapcaster. If only Evolution Charm grabbed Enchantments or permanents instead of just Creatures... Haha.
I definitely agree there. The awesome thing about command is you could simultaneously counter some form of yard hate and return loam to keep it safe since it has the cantrip built it. Or tap down your opponents board and get it for 2 with you guides and have mana open to cast a loam. I think command is a great fit for your deck. I like the change. Keep us updated
One thing I came across while editing my deck is Creeping Renaissance. It's more expensive then Loam, and isn't an engine in and of itself, but when it works, it's super-Loam, letting you kill in one turn with Assault out (since you should have plenty of lands in your GY). And as a bonus, you can still use it out of your graveyard if need be (though 7-mana for this deck is rather difficult). I plan on giving it a shot, but I was wondering what you all thought about it.
BGStandard Green AggroGB
UWRGModern Saheeli CobraGRWU
UBRGLegacy StormGRBU
Wizards Certified Rules Advisor
It could really only be useful if you want to win over yard hate and are playing a version with over 30 lands in order to win through a rest in peace. I agree it doesn't seem worthwhile to run in aggro loam. Swan assault it a different form of deck.
Capt. Nick posted a list a week or 2 ago that went first. That list went 2nd? a few days ago. It definitely makes sense since playing flame jab 2/3 times a turn plus a loam means 4 tokens every turn, which naturally adds up quick. It definitely seems like a solid game plan. Sometimes it is probably best to stick to control pieces over combo pieces like that. Just depends on what style you prefer. Those lists seem more focused on aggro.