Honestly, I've been fiddling with a list based on Smallpox and other hate with the Bloodghasts. Bloodghasts are the weakest card in the list, regrettably. Prime discard target, but I want to guarantee I get the engine online, which they don't do. And I had to start packing hate for Living End, that deck's a horrible matchup even with land destruction + targeted discard for the express purpose of removing cascade engines. You pretty much have to leave a spellbomb or some activatable grave hate running and crack it in response.
also i have been running into problems with the non bloodghast version in closing out games. They certainly arent great but if i continue to have problems with deck like uwr i may consider putting them back in.
EDIT:blue bersions running desperate raving(my build) may want to consider trade routes That card is unreal albiet a bit slow
I've been running a RUG Loam build for awhile. I tried out Trade Routes under suggestion of another member here. It was a cool card but it doesn't pull you ahead when you are behind and kind of solidifies a lead if you are already ahead. I started with three, cut it to two after a couple days of testing, then cut it to one and eventually all together. I never found myself wanting to see it.
you actually have tempo elements, a late game card draw engine doesnt seem as necesary for you as it would be for builds running black. I definitely see it possibly not working out but i dont think i can dismiss it just because it doesnt fit the RUG build.
also i have been running into problems with the non bloodghast version in closing out games. They certainly arent great but if i continue to have problems with deck like uwr i may consider putting them back in.
I tried for a while the Desperate Raving version and I felt just like you (mind you, I'm an average player there is a big chance that I've lost my games to misplays).
Currently I'm back to the Bloodghast (truth to be told, I like this guy) tough it is indeed the weakest in my 75.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
you actually have tempo elements, a late game card draw engine doesnt seem as necesary for you as it would be for builds running black. I definitely see it possibly not working out but i dont think i can dismiss it just because it doesnt fit the RUG build.
That's understandable. By all means, you should try it out for yourself and draw your own conclusions. I was just sharing my experience with the card for what it is worth. I found that it was the mana cost involved in the use of the card that kept me from liking it. With Assault, it is free to activate. So 2 mana turns into 6 damage. Where as Trade Routes turns Loam + activations into at least 3 mana for any actual return and 5 for full value. Which leaves you without doing much of anything on your actual turn other than setting up to draw some cards. If I really wanted to draw 2 or 3 cards, I'd rather run Harmonize or some other card draw spell (like Jace Beleren). It also eats away at your own lands in play, which directly keeps you from getting activations out of it.
Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
That's pretty sweet. Maybe I should give it another go.
One thing I learned though was that the Junk version performed a lot worse than the original version. It simply took too long to find all of the pieces. And then I tried a Gifts variant but realized that I'd rather just gift for Iona or Elesh Norn. There's a reason that Owen came to that exact deck list I have to admit. Don't fix what aint broken
Yeah manlands do a lot of work in this regard. Another option is to remove the Decays for Flame Jabs. I did that in my list and it gives you an alternative way to win as well (though terribly slow). I'm not a big fan of Assault in the list as we want to dredge 100% of the time, which means that Assault needs to be in our opening 7 to make any difference.
After a bit of testing, I'd rather take out Pyroclasms for Flame Jabs. Flame Jab still deals with late or summoning sick Deathrites, and the deck is actually fairly Goyf-weak.
I think you're right. I haven't faced many goyfs yet but I have been on the receiving end of Ajani's Pridemage which is basically the same and I had 0 ways of dealing with it.
How has Mulch been working so far for you? I'm on the fence. It leads to some explosive T4 kills, but if the game goes on for a while I feel that the deck lacks ways to interact with the opponent.
Mulch has been pretty good to me. With Borbo/Rites/Retrace/LftL, it's almost a Draw 3-4. It's actually one of the best cards in my hand surprisingly often (e.g. in a hand of 4 lands-Mulch-LftL-Crime, IoK the Mulch).
Why did he opt for Grove of the Burnwillows? Can I replace with Stomping Ground? I only ask because it's like 13 tix each for that card on MODO and I'd rather not have to buy it if I don't have to. Do you guys think Stomping Ground will work just as well?
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"A prince must imitate the Fox and the Lion, for the Lion cannot protect himself from traps and the Fox cannot defend himself from wolves. One must therefore be a Fox to recognize traps, and a Lion to frighten wolves." -- Machiavelli
Why did he opt for Grove of the Burnwillows? Can I replace with Stomping Ground? I only ask because it's like 13 tix each for that card on MODO and I'd rather not have to buy it if I don't have to. Do you guys think Stomping Ground will work just as well?
I don't like his mana base. Especially the Razorverge Thickets are out of place imo. We only have ½ card that is white, so having access to a Godless Shrine and a Temple Garden should be enough.
I would assume he has Grove in there is because it gives him a GR source that doesn't deal any damage to himself. I'd assume the deck is slower than the more traditional style, so minimizing damage makes sense. Paired with Blackcleave Cliffs, he has 8 sources of red turn 1 that don't deal him damage. Grove has the upside of not coming in to play tapped later in the game as well, which is probably why it gets the nod over Copperline Gorge. The 1 life that the opponent gains from each activation doesn't matter all that much since the deck is grindy and will do the damage needed to win anyways.
I'm not a fan of how deep this new version of the deck is going on the Borborygmos strategy. I have played a version of the deck that relies almost entirely on Assault to win and it isn't quite enough to get there by itself. So, I've been playing around with other creatures in the deck to add to the threat density. I'm also not big on having only one win condition in a deck due to being hated out of games. It is an interesting take on the deck but I just can't seem to bring myself to like it.
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Modern:
RUG Forever A Loam
Counter CatUWRG
RGTitan Fall
QuestSteelUW
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also i have been running into problems with the non bloodghast version in closing out games. They certainly arent great but if i continue to have problems with deck like uwr i may consider putting them back in.
EDIT:blue bersions running desperate raving(my build) may want to consider trade routes That card is unreal albiet a bit slow
I tried for a while the Desperate Raving version and I felt just like you (mind you, I'm an average player there is a big chance that I've lost my games to misplays).
Currently I'm back to the Bloodghast (truth to be told, I like this guy) tough it is indeed the weakest in my 75.
That's understandable. By all means, you should try it out for yourself and draw your own conclusions. I was just sharing my experience with the card for what it is worth. I found that it was the mana cost involved in the use of the card that kept me from liking it. With Assault, it is free to activate. So 2 mana turns into 6 damage. Where as Trade Routes turns Loam + activations into at least 3 mana for any actual return and 5 for full value. Which leaves you without doing much of anything on your actual turn other than setting up to draw some cards. If I really wanted to draw 2 or 3 cards, I'd rather run Harmonize or some other card draw spell (like Jace Beleren). It also eats away at your own lands in play, which directly keeps you from getting activations out of it.
it also really help dig deep which is generally important for this deck
couldnt get any borbygmos in trades yet but once i do ill be working on this one as well
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Godless Shrine
4 Grove of the Burnwillows
4 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Razorverge Thicket
1 Swamp
1 Temple Garden
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Verdant Catacombs
4 Borborygmos Enraged
Spells:
2 Abrupt Decay
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Mulch
4 Pyroclasm
3 Raven's Crime
4 Unburial Rites
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Ancient Grudge
2 Deathmark
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Liliana of the Veil
1 Raven's Crime
2 Stony Silence
1 Thoughtseize
2 Timely Reinforcements
source
One thing I learned though was that the Junk version performed a lot worse than the original version. It simply took too long to find all of the pieces. And then I tried a Gifts variant but realized that I'd rather just gift for Iona or Elesh Norn. There's a reason that Owen came to that exact deck list I have to admit. Don't fix what aint broken
How has Mulch been working so far for you? I'm on the fence. It leads to some explosive T4 kills, but if the game goes on for a while I feel that the deck lacks ways to interact with the opponent.
I don't like his mana base. Especially the Razorverge Thickets are out of place imo. We only have ½ card that is white, so having access to a Godless Shrine and a Temple Garden should be enough.
This is what I've been running:
The Graven Cairns only make sense if you decide to put in a couple of Flame Jabs though.
I'm not a fan of how deep this new version of the deck is going on the Borborygmos strategy. I have played a version of the deck that relies almost entirely on Assault to win and it isn't quite enough to get there by itself. So, I've been playing around with other creatures in the deck to add to the threat density. I'm also not big on having only one win condition in a deck due to being hated out of games. It is an interesting take on the deck but I just can't seem to bring myself to like it.