I've considered Gaea's Blessing. Might be worth it, but the only issue is, you can't respond to its trigger, which might not be a huge deal, but it feels like it could really mess things up. Worth testing tho.
Capt. Nick, you seem to be the Temur Loam-master. Got any updated list post unbannings/Dominaria? Jace does fit the deck nicely in my opinion.
There wasn't anything in Dominaria that stuck out as a useful inclusion into Temur Loam. Though I do really like Sylvan Awakening as a card and I think this deck wouldn't be the worst place for it as a 1-of in the board. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a nice addition to the deck as he does a lot of what you want and is much better than Nissa, Steward of Elements or Jace Beleren. This is the list I am playing with now:
The sideboard is really open to tuning and those are just general answers cards I like running. I would like to slot an Engineered Explosives in there but I don't really have a problem with where it is at right now. If you have any questions about the decklist, I'd be happy to answer them. I've only played a couple tournaments with it since the unban and have done pretty well with it.
I know that this isn't technically a Loam Pox thread, but I figure it's easier to find people to talk to than elsewhere, even if the chat feels pretty dead. I was wondering about our Lantern control matchup. Due to this rule: 502.47a Dredge is a static ability that functions only while the card with dredge is in a player’s graveyard. “Dredge N” means “As long as you have at least N cards in your library, if you would draw a card, you may instead put N cards from the top of your library into your graveyard and return this card from your graveyard to your hand.” we know that dredge doesn't stop us from milling ourselves. Memory's Journey doesn't do enough when you're not in blue because the flashback exiles the card. Is it worth while to have a Buried Ruin + Elixir of Immortality package (or some other choose to reshuffle package) in the 75?
I don't think dedicating sideboard slots to anti-milling is really going to do anything for you. Mill is how Lantern wins but getting around the lock is what will allow you to win through it. So you need answers to their lock pieces. So, bringing in more artifact removal should work well for you. Though, you're running 4 Ancient Grudge so I can't imagine you'd have trouble finding some hate. They can't really deal with that well, since it works from both your hand and graveyard. You could consider running Nature's Spiral or Treasured Find to get back milled Assaults. I haven't personally had trouble against Lantern with Loam decks. We tend to operate in a way that they can't handle without seeing several "silver bullet" artifacts. If you can stay ahead of those hate cards, you should be able to win without much trouble and before milling out becomes an issue.
Graveyard hate is going to be tough for a graveyard based deck to deal with, otherwise it isn't good hate. You could maybe run some number of Maelstrom Pulse over the Lightning Axes in your deck or just prioritize digging for removal spells for it during games. I don't believe Lantern has a great way of dealing with Assault once it is in play. So I'd say focus on that game plan against them. You can Dredge through a Cage so getting the Loam engine going is where I would start for that match up. You could try adding a Crucible of Worlds or two to your sideboard and pursue a land destruction lock on them. Wheel of Sun and Moon also came up as a potential sideboard card while I was poking at this problem.
Yeah, naturally gy hate is pretty brutal. Land locking Lantern is the best route to victory. They have Decays for Assaults usually. I don't think Crucible is where we want to be as it doesn't help with enough matchups to make sense.
With this 75 and a slightly older version which I overhauled to this one, I'm currently 15-15. I attached an image of the results and matchups thus far.
I would like to move that average up to 60%, and I think I can by making fewer misplays (more common in my earlier games with the deck) and by making a couple changes here and there to the list, though I don't know what those might be just yet. Please let me know your thoughts on how you might improve the list, because I am trying to build it in paper
Trimmed white from the list, and I've been happy thus far, netting a 4-2 record; winning games against Humans, RG Ponza, that Mono Blue Bridge/Chalice deck that is utter garbage and 8 Rack (easy win), while losing games to Naya Zoo (lost a really tight 3rd game where Young Pyro was so close to stabilizing for me) and unsurprisingly to Mono G Tron with mainboard relics.
I believe that is the same as before: too slow and folds to graveyard hate. I would love to see someone break the meta with a Loam engine, but I don't think it can be done with the current state of the meta.
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@Dos_Rouge: I think the deck sits where it has for awhile, it's decent and has a strong attrition game but it doesn't close out games quickly. So it has rough combo match ups. Like most modern decks though, it can place fairly well but I don't know what sort of a meta modern would have to take for Assault Loam to be dominant.
@Xour: I don't think the deck is completely SOL against graveyard hate. Like, losing the Loam engine is rough but beating down with Countryside Crusher, Bloodbraid Elf, or manlands is viable. As is Assault turning your lands into Shocks. I took out the counter magic in my deck and tried running a set of BBE in their stead. It went fairly well at the tournament I played in, going 2-1-1. I beat Jeskai Control, Mono-White Midrange, drew with Jeskai Control (though I was a turn away from winning and would have won had he not drawn back to back Snapcasters during extra turns) and lost to UW Taking Turns. I liked being more proactive but not having ways to interact outside of damage was rough. I'm not sure how to balance that though as counter magic with BBE is awkward.
@Dos_Rouge: I think the deck sits where it has for awhile, it's decent and has a strong attrition game but it doesn't close out games quickly. So it has rough combo match ups. Like most modern decks though, it can place fairly well but I don't know what sort of a meta modern would have to take for Assault Loam to be dominant.
@Xour: I don't think the deck is completely SOL against graveyard hate. Like, losing the Loam engine is rough but beating down with Countryside Crusher, Bloodbraid Elf, or manlands is viable. As is Assault turning your lands into Shocks. I took out the counter magic in my deck and tried running a set of BBE in their stead. It went fairly well at the tournament I played in, going 2-1-1. I beat Jeskai Control, Mono-White Midrange, drew with Jeskai Control (though I was a turn away from winning and would have won had he not drawn back to back Snapcasters during extra turns) and lost to UW Taking Turns. I liked being more proactive but not having ways to interact outside of damage was rough. I'm not sure how to balance that though as counter magic with BBE is awkward.
Have you considered swapping the Serum Visions for Opt or Thoughtscour? Both give you an instant speed dredge to rescue a loam from a surgical extraction.
Yeah, I had Thought Scour in the deck awhile ago but the Scry 2 is important as I want to dig for the combo pieces of the deck and without a good way to recur the Assault, blindly milling isn't exactly where I wanted to be with the deck. Instant speed draw would be nice but the digging quality of Serum Visions is really what the deck wants.
I've been running this list with pretty good results, though I've only done locals with it. While it seems like most of the lists in this thread have been control or attrition, I shifted to a more tempo axis with Hollow One and Flameblade, which fit perfectly into the engine. Trade Routes is a very useful piece, as it helps cycle through dead draws, dredges Loam, and really adds an extra combo element. If you untap with it and Assault you basically can deal 2x the number of lands you have in damage. Edge of Autumn is also notably gas.
I think Loam unfortunately is effected by grave hate that is close to coming to sideboards in full force again, so it's pretty crucial to make sure the deck can do fine without as much of a grave aspect.
It has an interesting approach, I may sleeve it up and give it a go. Not sure about some numbers/choices, but I think it has potential for taking down an FNM.
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It seems like there are just so many ways to build this archetype anymore that it's hard to pin down what's optimal. It's not just that you can build Jund, Naya, RUG, R/G, and 4-color combinations. There are Smallpox versions, Young Pyro versions, Borborygmos versions, Gitrog Monster versions, and Delirium versions in addition to the older, more traditional builds. Some versions are more aggro - some more control.
It's just so hard to tell what cards are ideal or what "the core" of this deck is anymore. Heck, I used to think Faithless Looting, Life from the Loam, and Seismic Assault in every deck were absolute necessities.
Hello everyone! I've come back to tinkering with my R/G Low(ish) budget Loam deck. I was considering looking for a replacement for Flinthoof Boar and found three cards that won't break the bank. Untamed Kavu, Sylvan Advocate and Flameblade Adept. I can see the advantages and disadvantages of each but would like to hear some input from the community. All three are so low on the market I could pick up a playset of each and test of course... but I still appreciate the input. Any advise is appreciated. Thank you!
Honestly I don't mind having the deck lean towards aggro. Hollow One and Chandra's Phoenix didn't cross my mind. I do have more Flame Jabs so I'll try out using them in place of the Molten Vortex. If they work out, the Phoenixes might be a better option for recursion.
What about Creeping Renaissance. God forbid someone is trying to mill you lol.
I mean you can pop 6 damage a turn but there's also ways to do 12 damage with 4 mana, or just a bonkers amount of damage end-game. I mean yeah, side it out of game 1.
This new set though is going to make graveyard hate very popular. So uhhh, might be best to shelves this one for a while.
I believe Creeping Renaissance was discussed previously in this thread, but I don't remember how far back it was.
That being said, I'm not a fan of the card.
1.) It's a five mana sorcery, when casting any card for five mana is difficult. I've tried at various times to make room for cards like Thragtusk, Demigod of Revenge, Worm Harvest, The Gitrog Monster, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Ishkanah, Grafwidow, etc.., but always find myself cutting them. And seven mana for the flashback just seems impossible in a deck that is looking to discard lands rather than play them.
2.) It relies on you having a full graveyard, when, as you said, you might not even have a GY with all the hate running around. Unlike many other GY synergy cards though (say Faithless Looting, Grim Flayer or Raven's Crime for example), Creeping Renaissance does stone-nothing without a GY.
3.) I believe this card to be "win-more" because if I have a full GY, than I probably have a Loam. The implication in your statement about why do six damage when you could do twelve or more is that you have a Seismic Assault as well and you're returning a bunch of lands with Renaissance. If I have this combination out, then six damage a turn - either to control the board or to shoot at my opponent's face - is plenty good enough to win. Maybe Renaissance would be key in a more combo version of the deck, but I don't think it's needed in traditional builds.
As for the cards revealed from Guilds of Ravnica so far, the only one I'm seriously considering right now is Assassin's Trophy (but the price atm, yikes!). I guess Golgari Findbroker as sort of a bigger - yet more narrow - Eternal Witness and maybe Macabre Hatchery and Vivid Revival are on my radar as well. Some of the blue cards may also be worth a look, but atm I'm in the Jund colors myself.
Speaking of over costed win moar cards, I was watching some deck techs on As Foretold/Living End decks and started wondering what would be good, or fun sideboard cards for that match. I came to the conclusion that it would be hilarious to run a couple Borborygmos Enraged to ride the coattails of their Living End. Totally not a great strategy, but I figured I would share this comical strategy.
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There wasn't anything in Dominaria that stuck out as a useful inclusion into Temur Loam. Though I do really like Sylvan Awakening as a card and I think this deck wouldn't be the worst place for it as a 1-of in the board. Jace, the Mind Sculptor is a nice addition to the deck as he does a lot of what you want and is much better than Nissa, Steward of Elements or Jace Beleren. This is the list I am playing with now:
3 Snapcaster Mage
3 Countryside Crusher
Spells: 29
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
2 Spell Pierce
4 Deprive
4 Life from the Loam
4 Seismic Assault
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands: 25
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sheltered Thicket
2 Cascade Bluffs
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Counterflux
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Dispel
1 Nature's Claim
1 Back to Nature
1 Spellskite
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Flame Jab
The sideboard is really open to tuning and those are just general answers cards I like running. I would like to slot an Engineered Explosives in there but I don't really have a problem with where it is at right now. If you have any questions about the decklist, I'd be happy to answer them. I've only played a couple tournaments with it since the unban and have done pretty well with it.
I don't think dedicating sideboard slots to anti-milling is really going to do anything for you. Mill is how Lantern wins but getting around the lock is what will allow you to win through it. So you need answers to their lock pieces. So, bringing in more artifact removal should work well for you. Though, you're running 4 Ancient Grudge so I can't imagine you'd have trouble finding some hate. They can't really deal with that well, since it works from both your hand and graveyard. You could consider running Nature's Spiral or Treasured Find to get back milled Assaults. I haven't personally had trouble against Lantern with Loam decks. We tend to operate in a way that they can't handle without seeing several "silver bullet" artifacts. If you can stay ahead of those hate cards, you should be able to win without much trouble and before milling out becomes an issue.
In the meantime, this is my current list:
1x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Canyon Slough
1x Forest
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Graven Cairns
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Tectonic Edge
1x Treetop Village
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Collective Brutality
2x Darkblast
4x Faithless Looting
1x Flame Jab
4x Life from the Loam
3x Lightning Axe
3x Lingering Souls
1x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
Creatures
4x Bloodghast
1x Golgari Brownscale
1x Vengeful Pharaoh
Enchantments
1x Molten Vortex
3x Seismic Assault
3x Ancient Grudge
1x Bojuka Bog
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
2x Golgari Brownscale
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Memory's Journey
1x Quicksand
2x Ray of Revelation
1x Thoughtseize
With this 75 and a slightly older version which I overhauled to this one, I'm currently 15-15. I attached an image of the results and matchups thus far.
I would like to move that average up to 60%, and I think I can by making fewer misplays (more common in my earlier games with the deck) and by making a couple changes here and there to the list, though I don't know what those might be just yet. Please let me know your thoughts on how you might improve the list, because I am trying to build it in paper
2x Blood Crypt
4x Bloodstained Mire
1x Bojuka Bog
1x Forest
3x Ghost Quarter
2x Graven Cairns
1x Mountain
2x Overgrown Tomb
1x Quicksand
1x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Treetop Village
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Abrupt Decay
2x Collective Brutality
2x Darkblast
4x Faithless Looting
1x Flame Jab
4x Life from the Loam
2x Lightning Axe
2x Raven's Crime
3x Smallpox
2x Terminate
Creatures
4x Bloodghast
4x Young Pyromancer
Enchantments
1x Molten Vortex
3x Seismic Assault
3x Ancient Grudge
2x Bontu's Last Reckoning
3x Golgari Brownscale
2x Memory's Journey
2x Nature's Claim
3x Thoughtseize
I feel like molten vortex, life from the loam is just what is needed right now for murdering the humans deck meta game.
is Ramunap Ruins the only land in modern that deals damages directly to players?
other than Keldon Megaliths
@Xour: I don't think the deck is completely SOL against graveyard hate. Like, losing the Loam engine is rough but beating down with Countryside Crusher, Bloodbraid Elf, or manlands is viable. As is Assault turning your lands into Shocks. I took out the counter magic in my deck and tried running a set of BBE in their stead. It went fairly well at the tournament I played in, going 2-1-1. I beat Jeskai Control, Mono-White Midrange, drew with Jeskai Control (though I was a turn away from winning and would have won had he not drawn back to back Snapcasters during extra turns) and lost to UW Taking Turns. I liked being more proactive but not having ways to interact outside of damage was rough. I'm not sure how to balance that though as counter magic with BBE is awkward.
3 Countryside Crusher
4 Bloodbraid Elf
Spells: 28
3 Ancestral Vision
4 Serum Visions
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
2 Search for Azcanta
4 Life from the Loam
4 Seismic Assault
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
Lands: 25
4 Misty Rainforest
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
3 Steam Vents
1 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Spirebluff Canal
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Raging Ravine
1 Sheltered Thicket
2 Cascade Bluffs
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
2 Scavenging Ooze
1 Hazoret the Fervent
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Nature's Claim
1 Back to Nature
1 Spellskite
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Flame Jab
Edit: Forgot that I swapped (-3) Snapcaster Mage for (+3) Ancestral Vision.
Have you considered swapping the Serum Visions for Opt or Thoughtscour? Both give you an instant speed dredge to rescue a loam from a surgical extraction.
4 Flameblade Adept
4 Street Wraith
Enchantment
3 Trade Routes
4 Seismic Assault
Land
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Blood Crypt
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Steam Vents
1 Breeding Pool
2 Stomping Ground
1 Bloodstained Mire
1 Windswept Heath
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Verdant Catacombs
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Forest
1 Island
2 Mountain
2 Swamp
4 Hollow One
Instant
3 Assassin's Trophy
2 Risk Factor
Sorcery
2 Conflagrate
3 Edge of Autumn
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
1 Pack Rat
2 Grim Lavamancer
1 Faerie Macabre
1 Drake Haven
2 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Heaven // Earth
2 Smallpox
3 Collective Brutality
I've been running this list with pretty good results, though I've only done locals with it. While it seems like most of the lists in this thread have been control or attrition, I shifted to a more tempo axis with Hollow One and Flameblade, which fit perfectly into the engine. Trade Routes is a very useful piece, as it helps cycle through dead draws, dredges Loam, and really adds an extra combo element. If you untap with it and Assault you basically can deal 2x the number of lands you have in damage. Edge of Autumn is also notably gas.
I think Loam unfortunately is effected by grave hate that is close to coming to sideboards in full force again, so it's pretty crucial to make sure the deck can do fine without as much of a grave aspect.
4 Bloodstained Mire
2 Forest
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Mountain
2 Overgrown Tomb
1 Stomping Ground
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Verdant Catacombs
2 Wooded Foothills
1 Abrupt Decay
2 Bedlam Reveler
2 Chandra, Torch of Defiance
3 Collective Brutality
4 Faithless Looting
4 Life from the Loam
3 Liliana of the Veil
2 Maelstrom Pulse
3 Molten Vortex
3 Raven's Crime
2 Scavenging Ooze
4 Tarmogoyf
1 Terminate
2 Thragtusk
2 Anger of the Gods
1 Dismember
3 Duress
2 Garruk Relentless
2 Golgari Charm
1 Murderous Cut
2 Rakdos Charm
1 Thrun, the Last Troll
It's just so hard to tell what cards are ideal or what "the core" of this deck is anymore. Heck, I used to think Faithless Looting, Life from the Loam, and Seismic Assault in every deck were absolute necessities.
1x Cinder Glade
2x Copperline Gorge
4x Forest
2x Ghost Quarter
6x Mountain
1x Raging Ravine
1x Sheltered Thicket
1x Skarrg, the Rage Pits
2x Stomping Ground
1x Treetop Village
1x Valakut, the Molten Pinnacle
2x Wooded Foothills
3x Countryside Crusher
4x Flinthoof Boar
2x Ghor-Clan Rampager
2x Scavenging Ooze
4x Young Pyromancer
Sorcery (12)
4x Faithless Looting
1x Flame Jab
4x Life from the Loam
3x Magmatic Insight
Enchantment (5)
2x Molten Vortex
3x Seismic Assault
For that matter, with a few tweaks, Hollow One might even be an option. As might something like Chandra's Phoenix in conjunction with Flame Jab (which I think is better than Molten Vortex in your list because of Young Pyromancer).
Magmatic Insight is a card I've had a few feel bad moments with. More often than not, I have the land to pitch but in some cases I end up pitching it to Faithless Looting. I'm considering swapping them out for Tormenting Voice and/or Cathartic Reunion.
I mean you can pop 6 damage a turn but there's also ways to do 12 damage with 4 mana, or just a bonkers amount of damage end-game. I mean yeah, side it out of game 1.
This new set though is going to make graveyard hate very popular. So uhhh, might be best to shelves this one for a while.
That being said, I'm not a fan of the card.
1.) It's a five mana sorcery, when casting any card for five mana is difficult. I've tried at various times to make room for cards like Thragtusk, Demigod of Revenge, Worm Harvest, The Gitrog Monster, Goblin Dark-Dwellers, Ishkanah, Grafwidow, etc.., but always find myself cutting them. And seven mana for the flashback just seems impossible in a deck that is looking to discard lands rather than play them.
2.) It relies on you having a full graveyard, when, as you said, you might not even have a GY with all the hate running around. Unlike many other GY synergy cards though (say Faithless Looting, Grim Flayer or Raven's Crime for example), Creeping Renaissance does stone-nothing without a GY.
3.) I believe this card to be "win-more" because if I have a full GY, than I probably have a Loam. The implication in your statement about why do six damage when you could do twelve or more is that you have a Seismic Assault as well and you're returning a bunch of lands with Renaissance. If I have this combination out, then six damage a turn - either to control the board or to shoot at my opponent's face - is plenty good enough to win. Maybe Renaissance would be key in a more combo version of the deck, but I don't think it's needed in traditional builds.
As for the cards revealed from Guilds of Ravnica so far, the only one I'm seriously considering right now is Assassin's Trophy (but the price atm, yikes!). I guess Golgari Findbroker as sort of a bigger - yet more narrow - Eternal Witness and maybe Macabre Hatchery and Vivid Revival are on my radar as well. Some of the blue cards may also be worth a look, but atm I'm in the Jund colors myself.
Speaking of over costed win moar cards, I was watching some deck techs on As Foretold/Living End decks and started wondering what would be good, or fun sideboard cards for that match. I came to the conclusion that it would be hilarious to run a couple Borborygmos Enraged to ride the coattails of their Living End. Totally not a great strategy, but I figured I would share this comical strategy.