Yes, that is why I found odd that he kept them. In the GP San Diego Deck Tech he said he was unimpressed with the Bloodghast.
I don't know what could be a good replacement though.
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desperate ravings splashing blue. or maindeck pyroclasm. Or go up even more on lands.
the deck runs one of the each of the two jund manlands as well as seismic assaults. the belief that you need more wincons seems flawed to me. your opponent will be at zero cards in hand while you landcestral recall EVERY TURN. Winning is just a matter of technique at that point (ie you dont need bloodghast clogging you up)
After reading this article, I decided to take the deck for a spin and I ended up 2-2'ing at my first DE with it (tons of play mistakes)
(2-0 vs. Monoblue Tron, 2-1 vs. Soul Sisters, 0-2 vs. Merfolk, 1-2 vs. UWR Tempo)
I've gone through a lot of different phases with the deck. First of all I switched Mulch for Smallpox because I thought that Mulch was junk and played with that configuration for a long time, until I finally realized that Mulch is just simply better in the deck.
This is not a grindy deck (all though it can play that way if it needs to), it's a combo deck and Smallpox delays our game plan by a turn or two. Second of all I experimented with alternative ways to bring the Cyclops into play. Mainly jank like Howltooth Hollow but found it to be too unreliable.
The biggest difference between mine and Owen's build is the mana base and the fact that I run Firespout over Pyroclasm. Why people still insist on running Pyroclasm over Firespout or Slagstorm with Gruul Zoo decks everywhere I really never will be able to understand.
I can firmly say that I'm in love with this deck and all though I generally don't care much for Owen's brews I think he's spot on with this one. The deck just feels really powerful and when tweaked and most of all piloted correctly I think it could turn out to be pretty awesome.
desperate ravings splashing blue. or maindeck pyroclasm. Or go up even more on lands.
the deck runs one of the each of the two jund manlands as well as seismic assaults. the belief that you need more wincons seems flawed to me. your opponent will be at zero cards in hand while you landcestral recall EVERY TURN. Winning is just a matter of technique at that point (ie you dont need bloodghast clogging you up)
Yes, if I'm not mistaken he even said that the Bloodghast were a "win more" card rather a win condition. This is why I was surprised when I saw his list on MODO.
Badabingbadabum, have you tried Lingering Souls? How Path to Exile has treated you? Even though Abrupt Decay is a thing, I feel I'd like to have an Seismic Assault in play rather than a creature.
To be honest, I didn't test this version of the deck, just wondering.
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
this deck has a better late game than any other deck in the format except maybe urzatron(uwr midrange and i would imagine control as well eats it against us). I have no idea what you are talking about calling us a combo deck. We have a combo kill but that isnt nearly as important as getting their hand down to zero and wiping their board.
Maybe the extra point from borbygymos helps go a little faster but this deck is the grindiest thing ive seen(at least the normal assault version is) .
This is also to say that cutting smallpox feels completely wrong to me, dropping games to geist and boggles does not seem conducive to success.
Lingering souls strikes me as sex in a can for your build as well i hope you get a chance to test it.
I will test the borbygymos white brew when i get the chance and try to report back. I too am in love with this archetype and will report each time i get the chance.
So far i have been having a good time vs most decks i played, uwr, scapeshift, affinity, and while i was 50-50 preboard vs goblins postboard it's curtains for them. I have yet to find a truly atrocious matchup and am curious to hear if anyone has found one and if there is anything we can do vs it.
chancer, a friend of mine is running a Living End deck that for the life of me I cannot beat pre-board (keep in mind that I'm new to this archetype). How is your experience with this deck, if any?
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Common sense is the most fairly distributed thing in the world, for each one thinks he is so well-endowed with it that even those who are hardest to satisfy in all other matters are not in the habit of desiring more of it than they already have. - René Descartes
this deck has a better late game than any other deck in the format except maybe urzatron(uwr midrange and i would imagine control as well eats it against us). I have no idea what you are talking about calling us a combo deck. We have a combo kill but that isnt nearly as important as getting their hand down to zero and wiping their board.
Maybe the extra point from borbygymos helps go a little faster but this deck is the grindiest thing ive seen(at least the normal assault version is) .
This is also to say that cutting smallpox feels completely wrong to me, dropping games to geist and boggles does not seem conducive to success.
Lingering souls strikes me as sex in a can for your build as well i hope you get a chance to test it.
I will test the borbygymos white brew when i get the chance and try to report back. I too am in love with this archetype and will report each time i get the chance.
So far i have been having a good time vs most decks i played, uwr, scapeshift, affinity, and while i was 50-50 preboard vs goblins postboard it's curtains for them. I have yet to find a truly atrocious matchup and am curious to hear if anyone has found one and if there is anything we can do vs it.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that traditional Assault Loam is a combo deck, I'm saying that this particular brew that Owen came up with is. As I wrote, my first instinct was also to cut Mulch for Smallpox, but I realized that the deck is completely different beast in a way that T4-T5 kills happen a lot of the time.
I'm trying a different version with Lingering Souls now. Owen wrote that he started with Souls and ended up cutting them for some reason. Being a person that doesn't rely on anybodies word I'm gonna try them out anyway. Because let's face it. They are pretty darn sexy!
Badabingbadabum, have you tried Lingering Souls? How Path to Exile has treated you? Even though Abrupt Decay is a thing, I feel I'd like to have an Seismic Assault in play rather than a creature.
To be honest, I didn't test this version of the deck, just wondering.
I'm trying a list with Lingering Souls and Path to Exile now. I'll report back how it goes. I'm trying a version that's closer to traditional Junk and cutting all the filtering, just to see how the deck feels.
The thing with Borby is that you kill the opponent in one blow a lot of the time (5 lands is usually enough as the opponent probably has taken some pain from shocks and fetches) so his removal doesn't matter. Either that, or you have emptied his hand with Crime and can kill him next turn. I haven't lost any matches where Borby came online yet. The 1 extra damage per card makes a lot of difference, plus the fact that he can beat down as well.
I'll look forward to your report as I'm really interested on this archetype. Thanks.
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first off, i had a feeling living end would be bad but didnt want to speculate before testing. Im thinking we ought to just jam some graveyard hate of our own as a potential two of, our sideboards right now seem to be making already decent matchups better, i dont see any reason for doing that. For the particular weapon of choice im leaning towards nihil spellbomb. I will try to get living end testing where possible and report back.
Second, i realized halfway through writing that the lists were probably different enough that yours would play more like a combo deck, but i was on my ipad and didnt feel like editting it
third, im so glad you are willing to test lingering souls, i really have a hard time believing owen that they are bad. Ive read enough of reid duke's opinions on modern to know that not all pros know everything
fourth, im really excited to see your report.
Finally, im currently on jabberwocki's current list(the splash blue one) minus a blackleave cliffs and up a basic forest. I have no idea why on earth he wants to go dead to blood moon, but i certainly dont. I will be working on e sideboard in the upcoming weeks when more testing can occur. But the maindeck currently seems to be where i want it.
One last thing, badabing, have you considered running sideboard fatties to recur vs faster matchups? wurmcoil or elesh seem rather potent to me.
EDIT: Did you actually have a good matchup vs true badabing? it seems poor for the home team on paper which is why im wondering(maybe the borbygymos build changes that) Also for me UWR tempo seems like an autowin for us(or at least the creatureless build), did borbygymos feel like a liablity here or did you lose to something else?
Also why firespout over slagstorm?
EDIT2: Got some games in vs living end, won a preboard game off of insane luck, got demolished in another, assumed that that would be the persisting trend i moved to sidboard games. 3 leyline of the voids is a HOUSE. With discard and a leyline you probably will demolish them postboard. I certainly did(even after mulling to 4 for the leyline)
EDIT: Did you actually have a good matchup vs true badabing? it seems poor for the home team on paper which is why im wondering(maybe the borbygymos build changes that) Also for me UWR tempo seems like an autowin for us(or at least the creatureless build), did borbygymos feel like a liablity here or did you lose to something else?
Also why firespout over slagstorm?
Heh, I actually lost to GoST. So maybe cutting Smallpox wasn't such a good idea.
There are some matchups that are good. So far I can say that Tron is an autowin because our clock is faster than theirs. I haven't played against the version running Relics main board though.
Firespout is a blunder from my part. I didn't think of Slagstorm before I submitted the deck.
Also, what do people think of running Path along with Smallpox? Is it counterproductive or is it all right? I'm working on a new Junk-esque build
One last thing, badabing, have you considered running sideboard fatties to recur vs faster matchups? wurmcoil or elesh seem rather potent to me.
I have thought about it, but the thing is that you win the game 99% of the time that Borby comes online (I haven't lost yet, so this is just a random calculation) but I could see arguments for running some silver bullets if something goes wrong (say you need to reanimate something asap and you don't have the lands in hand to kill the opponent.) I'll look into it.
Living End is also a good matchup, or at least so it seems. I just beat it 2-0. I just dredged into Borby, stopped dredging (to avoid Legend rule) and attacked him with Beast and Soul tokens until he went off and when he did, I just killed him with a couple of lands.
Don't know if people are interested but this is what I'm gonna try out next: (sorry if this is progressing into 'off-topic' area as it doesn't have a lot in common with Assault Loam anymore. I'll post it somewhere else if it is)
So far I really like it. Not sure if cutting red is the right call. I really miss Looting. Losing that is a pretty big blow. I've included Darkblast as a semi Flame Jab and also because it helps setting things up, when I don't run Looting or Mulch to do that.
I'm gonna run it through a couple of DE's today or tomorrow.
I'm trying a list very similar to your original list a page or two back, but I'm still trying a single Seismic Assault. I guess I'm doing it out of fear of an opposing Surgical Extraction, Extirpate, Slaughter Games, or what-have-you. Deck seems really fast, but if we're on the draw, I imagine we could run into trouble post-board if Borby gets removed somehow.
I want to cut the red and play Junk colors but... dat Looting is just too good to pass up! Plus it adds for good sideboard options.
I dont see any reason to disclude your deck from this because you cut red. Legacy nic fit decks run the gamut of all five colors but are still under the same umbrella, I think you're fine here.
With that said, cutting red seems awesome, I wanted a white build but couldnt bring myself to cut anything, but with the borbygmos brew cutting red feels so natural. With the move to a firm junk color build i am wondering how you missed an incredible gem HORIZON CANOPY!!! It supplies you with a much needed land way to draw cards and it goes certifiabley insane with loam.(draw loam of canopy, bring back canopy and two other lands, repeat in ongoing turns.) It isnt nearly as good as the cyclers but it is almost certainly a glorious fit for your deck.
Knight of the reliquary is another consideration, but is unlikely good enough.(although with canopy, ghost quarter, and manlands i can see it doing real work).
Modern is another world from Standard, so this may be a bad consideration: but playing Junk may have a backfire. After playing so much Humanimator and Reanimator in Standard, you eventually encounter games where they stopped your Plan A (i.e. Unburial Rites) so hardcasting our dude is a possibility. Even if you're playing Junk colors, I would still stick with having 2 shocklands that include Red somehow just in case (Between 8 Fetch's, 4 Loams, and naturally drawing cards, getting 2 Red shouldn't be hard to do in case of emergencies).
The red is hard to justify otherwise unless you are a big fan of Faithless Looting. Junk colors offer a lot of good removal spells (Abrupt Decay, Path, etc.) but I play in a meta that's friendly towards aggro, so for now I'll be testing a red-friendly version with 4 Looting and 4 Pyroclasm. Burn and that RG Aggro is popular around here, and people like Geist of Saint Traft as well in other decks... So I'm kind of forced to play some sort of 2-3 damage-to-all card, whether it be Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, or Firesprout.
Nice catch chancer! Don't know why I forgot about one of the main reasons to switch to Junk. I don't own any though, but if I get some good results in with the deck I will buy some. What would be the correct number 2 or 3-esque?
I have thought about Knight, the problem is that there are only so much space in the 3 cmc slot, so I'd likely have to cut Lingering Souls for her. Don't know if that's correct, but I'll try her out after the Dailies.
Modern is another world from Standard, so this may be a bad consideration: but playing Junk may have a backfire. After playing so much Humanimator and Reanimator in Standard, you eventually encounter games where they stopped your Plan A (i.e. Unburial Rites) so hardcasting our dude is a possibility. Even if you're playing Junk colors, I would still stick with having 2 shocklands that include Red somehow just in case (Between 8 Fetch's, 4 Loams, and naturally drawing cards, getting 2 Red shouldn't be hard to do in case of emergencies).
The red is hard to justify otherwise unless you are a big fan of Faithless Looting. Junk colors offer a lot of good removal spells (Abrupt Decay, Path, etc.) but I play in a meta that's friendly towards aggro, so for now I'll be testing a red-friendly version with 4 Looting and 4 Pyroclasm. Burn and that RG Aggro is popular around here, and people like Geist of Saint Traft as well in other decks... So I'm kind of forced to play some sort of 2-3 damage-to-all card, whether it be Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, or Firesprout.
Good points. The hardcasting Bobby actually has come up a couple of times so you're probably right. Though Lingering Souls does a lot of work and is an excellent plan B. Between those and the manlands you can do a fairly good beat down impression. But when that's said, then throwing in a couple of Blood Crypts doesn't hurt too much
I found Timely and Explosives to do a lot of work against aggro, all though that matchup is tough. Pyroclasm-effects do shine here, I'm gonna try and see if I can cope for now.
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I don't know what could be a good replacement though.
the deck runs one of the each of the two jund manlands as well as seismic assaults. the belief that you need more wincons seems flawed to me. your opponent will be at zero cards in hand while you landcestral recall EVERY TURN. Winning is just a matter of technique at that point (ie you dont need bloodghast clogging you up)
(2-0 vs. Monoblue Tron, 2-1 vs. Soul Sisters, 0-2 vs. Merfolk, 1-2 vs. UWR Tempo)
This is my take on it:
4 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers (3)
3 Liliana of the Veil
Other Spells (25)
4 Faithless Looting
3 Raven's Crime
2 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
4 Mulch
4 Firespout
4 Unburial Rites
Lands (28)
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
3 Graven Cairns
1 Lavaclaw Reaches
1 Copperline Gorge
1 Raging Ravine
1 Stomping Ground
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
1 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Mountain
1 Forest
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Abrupt Decay
3 Extirpate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Stony Silence
3 Timely Reinforcements
I've gone through a lot of different phases with the deck. First of all I switched Mulch for Smallpox because I thought that Mulch was junk and played with that configuration for a long time, until I finally realized that Mulch is just simply better in the deck.
This is not a grindy deck (all though it can play that way if it needs to), it's a combo deck and Smallpox delays our game plan by a turn or two. Second of all I experimented with alternative ways to bring the Cyclops into play. Mainly jank like Howltooth Hollow but found it to be too unreliable.
The biggest difference between mine and Owen's build is the mana base and the fact that I run Firespout over Pyroclasm. Why people still insist on running Pyroclasm over Firespout or Slagstorm with Gruul Zoo decks everywhere I really never will be able to understand.
I can firmly say that I'm in love with this deck and all though I generally don't care much for Owen's brews I think he's spot on with this one. The deck just feels really powerful and when tweaked and most of all piloted correctly I think it could turn out to be pretty awesome.
Yes, if I'm not mistaken he even said that the Bloodghast were a "win more" card rather a win condition. This is why I was surprised when I saw his list on MODO.
Badabingbadabum, have you tried Lingering Souls? How Path to Exile has treated you? Even though Abrupt Decay is a thing, I feel I'd like to have an Seismic Assault in play rather than a creature.
To be honest, I didn't test this version of the deck, just wondering.
Maybe the extra point from borbygymos helps go a little faster but this deck is the grindiest thing ive seen(at least the normal assault version is) .
This is also to say that cutting smallpox feels completely wrong to me, dropping games to geist and boggles does not seem conducive to success.
Lingering souls strikes me as sex in a can for your build as well i hope you get a chance to test it.
I will test the borbygymos white brew when i get the chance and try to report back. I too am in love with this archetype and will report each time i get the chance.
So far i have been having a good time vs most decks i played, uwr, scapeshift, affinity, and while i was 50-50 preboard vs goblins postboard it's curtains for them. I have yet to find a truly atrocious matchup and am curious to hear if anyone has found one and if there is anything we can do vs it.
I think you misunderstood me. I'm not saying that traditional Assault Loam is a combo deck, I'm saying that this particular brew that Owen came up with is. As I wrote, my first instinct was also to cut Mulch for Smallpox, but I realized that the deck is completely different beast in a way that T4-T5 kills happen a lot of the time.
I'm trying a different version with Lingering Souls now. Owen wrote that he started with Souls and ended up cutting them for some reason. Being a person that doesn't rely on anybodies word I'm gonna try them out anyway. Because let's face it. They are pretty darn sexy!
I'm trying a list with Lingering Souls and Path to Exile now. I'll report back how it goes. I'm trying a version that's closer to traditional Junk and cutting all the filtering, just to see how the deck feels.
The thing with Borby is that you kill the opponent in one blow a lot of the time (5 lands is usually enough as the opponent probably has taken some pain from shocks and fetches) so his removal doesn't matter. Either that, or you have emptied his hand with Crime and can kill him next turn. I haven't lost any matches where Borby came online yet. The 1 extra damage per card makes a lot of difference, plus the fact that he can beat down as well.
first off, i had a feeling living end would be bad but didnt want to speculate before testing. Im thinking we ought to just jam some graveyard hate of our own as a potential two of, our sideboards right now seem to be making already decent matchups better, i dont see any reason for doing that. For the particular weapon of choice im leaning towards nihil spellbomb. I will try to get living end testing where possible and report back.
Second, i realized halfway through writing that the lists were probably different enough that yours would play more like a combo deck, but i was on my ipad and didnt feel like editting it
third, im so glad you are willing to test lingering souls, i really have a hard time believing owen that they are bad. Ive read enough of reid duke's opinions on modern to know that not all pros know everything
fourth, im really excited to see your report.
Finally, im currently on jabberwocki's current list(the splash blue one) minus a blackleave cliffs and up a basic forest. I have no idea why on earth he wants to go dead to blood moon, but i certainly dont. I will be working on e sideboard in the upcoming weeks when more testing can occur. But the maindeck currently seems to be where i want it.
One last thing, badabing, have you considered running sideboard fatties to recur vs faster matchups? wurmcoil or elesh seem rather potent to me.
EDIT: Did you actually have a good matchup vs true badabing? it seems poor for the home team on paper which is why im wondering(maybe the borbygymos build changes that) Also for me UWR tempo seems like an autowin for us(or at least the creatureless build), did borbygymos feel like a liablity here or did you lose to something else?
Also why firespout over slagstorm?
EDIT2: Got some games in vs living end, won a preboard game off of insane luck, got demolished in another, assumed that that would be the persisting trend i moved to sidboard games. 3 leyline of the voids is a HOUSE. With discard and a leyline you probably will demolish them postboard. I certainly did(even after mulling to 4 for the leyline)
Heh, I actually lost to GoST. So maybe cutting Smallpox wasn't such a good idea.
There are some matchups that are good. So far I can say that Tron is an autowin because our clock is faster than theirs. I haven't played against the version running Relics main board though.
Firespout is a blunder from my part. I didn't think of Slagstorm before I submitted the deck.
Also, what do people think of running Path along with Smallpox? Is it counterproductive or is it all right? I'm working on a new Junk-esque build
EDIT:
I have thought about it, but the thing is that you win the game 99% of the time that Borby comes online (I haven't lost yet, so this is just a random calculation) but I could see arguments for running some silver bullets if something goes wrong (say you need to reanimate something asap and you don't have the lands in hand to kill the opponent.) I'll look into it.
4 Borborygmos Enraged
Planeswalkers
3 Liliana of the Veil
Other Spells
3 Raven's Crime
3 Path to Exile
1 Darkblast
4 Life from the Loam
4 Smallpox
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Lingering Souls
4 Unburial Rites
Lands
2 Stirring Wildwood
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
4 Marsh Flats
2 Overgrown Tomb
4 Verdant Catacombs
3 Woodland Cemetery
1 Plains
2 Swamp
1 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
1 Forest
1 Treetop Village
1 Ghost Quarter
2 Vault of the Archangel
3 Extirpate
1 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Thoughtseize
3 Stony Silence
3 Timely Reinforcements
1 Batterskull
2 Engineered Explosives
So far I really like it. Not sure if cutting red is the right call. I really miss Looting. Losing that is a pretty big blow. I've included Darkblast as a semi Flame Jab and also because it helps setting things up, when I don't run Looting or Mulch to do that.
I'm gonna run it through a couple of DE's today or tomorrow.
What do people reckon of the deck?
I want to cut the red and play Junk colors but... dat Looting is just too good to pass up! Plus it adds for good sideboard options.
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I agree with Looting. I'm gonna run it as it is and see what happens, but I could see myself getting back into red for that card alone.
With that said, cutting red seems awesome, I wanted a white build but couldnt bring myself to cut anything, but with the borbygmos brew cutting red feels so natural. With the move to a firm junk color build i am wondering how you missed an incredible gem HORIZON CANOPY!!! It supplies you with a much needed land way to draw cards and it goes certifiabley insane with loam.(draw loam of canopy, bring back canopy and two other lands, repeat in ongoing turns.) It isnt nearly as good as the cyclers but it is almost certainly a glorious fit for your deck.
Knight of the reliquary is another consideration, but is unlikely good enough.(although with canopy, ghost quarter, and manlands i can see it doing real work).
The red is hard to justify otherwise unless you are a big fan of Faithless Looting. Junk colors offer a lot of good removal spells (Abrupt Decay, Path, etc.) but I play in a meta that's friendly towards aggro, so for now I'll be testing a red-friendly version with 4 Looting and 4 Pyroclasm. Burn and that RG Aggro is popular around here, and people like Geist of Saint Traft as well in other decks... So I'm kind of forced to play some sort of 2-3 damage-to-all card, whether it be Pyroclasm, Slagstorm, or Firesprout.
ex-Moderator
Legacy love.
I have thought about Knight, the problem is that there are only so much space in the 3 cmc slot, so I'd likely have to cut Lingering Souls for her. Don't know if that's correct, but I'll try her out after the Dailies.
Good points. The hardcasting Bobby actually has come up a couple of times so you're probably right. Though Lingering Souls does a lot of work and is an excellent plan B. Between those and the manlands you can do a fairly good beat down impression. But when that's said, then throwing in a couple of Blood Crypts doesn't hurt too much
I found Timely and Explosives to do a lot of work against aggro, all though that matchup is tough. Pyroclasm-effects do shine here, I'm gonna try and see if I can cope for now.