Being able to instant speed save loam from surgical, scavenging ooze and other effects of that nature, getting to loam and draw cards, getting to 1 mana rebuy loam every turn with an assault online. 5 mana ends up every turn 10 damage from assault rather than 1 loam a turn for 6 damage. Or having to flashback a faithless looting for 3 mana and cast loam twice for 4 additional mana. I honestly think cycle lands make the deck at least 1.5 if not tier 1
Being able to instant speed save loam from surgical, scavenging ooze and other effects of that nature, getting to loam and draw cards, getting to 1 mana rebuy loam every turn with an assault online. 5 mana ends up every turn 10 damage from assault rather than 1 loam a turn for 6 damage. Or having to flashback a faithless looting for 3 mana and cast loam twice for 4 additional mana. I honestly think cycle lands make the deck at least 1.5 if not tier 1
I enjoy the enthusiasm. Hard to predict what would happen. I honestly think cycling is just a matter of time in standard and it's a good chance the cyclelands get reprinted.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I would be really excited to have the cycle lands in modern, I highly doubt that will happen. But who knows? They may get squirrely and decide to reprint them. They would likely get banned if I have to be honest about it. Turn 1 you could fetch, cycle. Turn 2 fetch and cast loam returning 3 lands, 1 gives you an extra draw next turn. I think exploration and mox diamond would obviously be better assets to aggro loam, but cycle lands are the most likely. Even GSZ getting un-banned would allow us to lean more towards the legacy aggro loam deck. But ban/unban isn't a discussion for this thread.
Any suggestions for sideboard against Merfolk? Seems like against my build Master of Waves hits the field and I have literally no answers to it. Neither Flame jab, nor Bolt, not Abrupt Decay, not Smallpox hit it.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Darkblast is a great answer to it. Anger of the gods at least board wipes everything, but master of the waves itself. Kozilek's return could be a good sideboard card to answer Master of the Waves
This might be a little too cute but has anyone tried jamming some Westvale Abbeys into the deck along with Worm Harvest?
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
When removal like Path to Exile, Nahiri and Liliana of the Veil exist I am not sure making the 1 guy is really that great. I think using Worm Harvest by itself is likely just better than trying to get a big guy off Abbey.
Probably true. I'm testing an RG list with Worm Harvest and it's pretty great against Jund and Control all by itself.
I like this deck a lot because it has more ways to deal with Scavenging Ooze (most people's only hate) than most graveyard decks.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
@Luthier: Sounds sweet, would you mind sharing a list? I'm in RG as well and have been thinking about Worm Harvest. I'm wondering if Bow of Nylea has a place in the deck, but it's probably too cute. Mainly to recycle lost enchantments and creatures, but in your version giving Worm tokens Deathtouch would be absolutely hilarious. You can ping fliers when lacking a Seismic/Vortex, gain life, buff your dudes, and you can find it off a Commune with the Gods.
@Brawny15: I think Merfolk should be a favored matchup for us, whether we're in RG or Jund colors. 2x Anger of the Gods in the board plus 1-2x Pyroclasm should be good for decks like Merfolk, Elves, etc. Even if there's a Master of Waves still on the board, you should be able to race them easily with Seismic. If not, I'd suggest going up in your Seismic Assault/Molten Vortex count.
@jankoz Bow of Nylea actually seems really sweet. I'm almost creatureless but it still seems like good value.
My list is a little unconventional from what I've seen in this thread and I'm still working on it, but so far it seems really powerful and consistent. About the only matchups I'm scared to face honestly are Ad Nauseam and Bogles, maybe Tron. I feel favored against most of the tier 1 decks right now. I'm playing a lot of lands (30) and it works great. I ended up cutting the Westvale Abbey after never really needing to use it.
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
Thanks for the feedback, RDS. I played a few games against Tron recently and won all of them so I think you're right.
I'm starting to feel you on the Worm Harvest. The Axes are in there to deal with Goyfs because they can get out of hand quick.
Leyline might be better than Dragon's Claw, but unfortunately it might not be perfect against Ad Naus because they've started running Laboratory Maniac main deck.
EDIT also added 2 Tec Edges in addition to GQs to shore up the Scapeshift matchup.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
Ad nauseum always brings in patricians scorn when they suspect leyline or if it is relevant.
Tips to beat them.
-get to 2 land so you can loam and ghost quarter every turn. Get to the point where your hand is 7 lands so you can likely out-pitch them.
- black splash can ravens crime away their hand. If they have to build a hand retracing raven's crime is a good way to get there.
- get pressure down asap and follow step 1. If you can put pressure on them while nuking their land there is a good chance you can close out the game before they have mana. If they are working off lotus bloom you're likely to lose though. Cards like phyrexian revoker can be good. Another way to beat them is to also run angels grace. If it really is prevalent in your meta splash white with angels grace to surprise them in response to lightning storm.
- dragons claw is terrible since they only need 1 red spell and it deals more damage than you will gain life.
Im straight RG as well. I run something like 36 lands in my list. Similar spells. Eternal Witness seems too cute, as does Axe, Worm Harvest.
The matchup is real easy against Tron. Get Loam/GQ and its all ogre.
A good way to beat Ad Naus is putting in a set of Leyline of Sanctity instead of Dragon's Claw. Stops Gifts, Storm, Burn, Ad Naus, ect.
EDIT: Also Young Pyromancer/Flame Jab is a pretty good value play.
In addition, Raven's Crime is brutal against tron now that they don't have eye of ugin. Honestly, tron matchup is probably one of loam's best at this point.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Slaughter games is likely good. I don't like the idea that they can still duress it away or go off in response. But if does give another avenue of victory
What about splashing white for Stony Silence? Pretty good against AN and obviously good in other matchups.
It seems like they usually play 4 basics so Ghost Quarter lock is tough. But you can Tec Edge lock them with Stony Silence on the board (they can still go off with multiple Simian Spirit Guides though...)
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
The other suggestion of slaughter games is likely the best option for that match up. If you pick out ad nauseum I don't think they can beat you? I guess if you got extremely unlucky they could potentially go simian spirit guide beat down? Lol
My only concern with Slaughter Games is that it can be too slow on the draw game 3 but I guess it's just not a good matchup and you have to hope they stumble.
Here's a new list splashing black.
If you can cast a spell, you're doing well, If you can't, that's okay, too. It usually takes a few turns before you have enough mana to do anything. Meanwhile, you should figure out whether you need to discard (p.11). Then announce the end of your turn, and let your opponent have a go.
One of the main reasons to splash black is access to Raven's Crime. You can likely drop 1 vortex and 1 assault for 2 and could potentially drop another assault for a 3rd. Graven Cairns is a must in the Jund aggro loam mana base. Soo much mana fixing power from it.
Now, most of the board choices are fairly obvious. What I tend to struggle with is what I board out. I play a lot of 4c loam in legacy and it's very common to board out the loams(all 2 of them) against fast decks like infect or burn. Is it ever a good idea to board out loam?(if so, all of them or just keep it to a 1 of?) Do you guys ever board out lands? Again, I find myself boarding out the 1-of Ghost Quarter if I find it's mostly useless.
I've also had games where basically all my cards are so good against the other deck that I board out some of the slower and less reliable dig like Desperate Ravings and the corresponding blue duals.(Watery Grave and Steam Vents) E.g., Against affinity and I board in Golgari Charm, Pyroclasm, Ancient Grudge, and I find myself at a loss for finding bad cards to board out(this is where I was considering cutting loams)
Cards are game pieces, and should be treated as such, easily replaceable.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I enjoy the enthusiasm. Hard to predict what would happen. I honestly think cycling is just a matter of time in standard and it's a good chance the cyclelands get reprinted.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
I like this deck a lot because it has more ways to deal with Scavenging Ooze (most people's only hate) than most graveyard decks.
@Brawny15: I think Merfolk should be a favored matchup for us, whether we're in RG or Jund colors. 2x Anger of the Gods in the board plus 1-2x Pyroclasm should be good for decks like Merfolk, Elves, etc. Even if there's a Master of Waves still on the board, you should be able to race them easily with Seismic. If not, I'd suggest going up in your Seismic Assault/Molten Vortex count.
My list is a little unconventional from what I've seen in this thread and I'm still working on it, but so far it seems really powerful and consistent. About the only matchups I'm scared to face honestly are Ad Nauseam and Bogles, maybe Tron. I feel favored against most of the tier 1 decks right now. I'm playing a lot of lands (30) and it works great. I ended up cutting the Westvale Abbey after never really needing to use it.
4x Copperline Gorge
3x Dakmor Salvage
1x Forest
4x Ghost Quarter
2x Mountain
3x Bloodstained Mire
2x Raging Ravine
1x Treetop Village
4x Wooded Foothills
4x Stomping Ground
4x Faithless Looting
4x Magmatic Insight
4x Life from the Loam
2x Worm Harvest
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Lightning Axe
4x Molten Vortex
4x Seismic Assault
3x Anger of the Gods
4x Dragon's Claw
3x Naturalize
2x Relic of Progenitus
2x Surgical Extraction
1x Worm Harvest
The matchup is real easy against Tron. Get Loam/GQ and its all ogre.
A good way to beat Ad Naus is putting in a set of Leyline of Sanctity instead of Dragon's Claw. Stops Gifts, Storm, Burn, Ad Naus, ect.
EDIT: Also Young Pyromancer/Flame Jab is a pretty good value play.
U Tron
GW Bogles
RG Loam
UR Blue Breach
RBU Grixis Goryo
BRU Grixis Delver
GBR Jund
GBW Junk
Active Legacy Decks
BR Reanimator
I'm starting to feel you on the Worm Harvest. The Axes are in there to deal with Goyfs because they can get out of hand quick.
Leyline might be better than Dragon's Claw, but unfortunately it might not be perfect against Ad Naus because they've started running Laboratory Maniac main deck.
EDIT also added 2 Tec Edges in addition to GQs to shore up the Scapeshift matchup.
Tips to beat them.
-get to 2 land so you can loam and ghost quarter every turn. Get to the point where your hand is 7 lands so you can likely out-pitch them.
- black splash can ravens crime away their hand. If they have to build a hand retracing raven's crime is a good way to get there.
- get pressure down asap and follow step 1. If you can put pressure on them while nuking their land there is a good chance you can close out the game before they have mana. If they are working off lotus bloom you're likely to lose though. Cards like phyrexian revoker can be good. Another way to beat them is to also run angels grace. If it really is prevalent in your meta splash white with angels grace to surprise them in response to lightning storm.
- dragons claw is terrible since they only need 1 red spell and it deals more damage than you will gain life.
In addition, Raven's Crime is brutal against tron now that they don't have eye of ugin. Honestly, tron matchup is probably one of loam's best at this point.
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.
It seems like they usually play 4 basics so Ghost Quarter lock is tough. But you can Tec Edge lock them with Stony Silence on the board (they can still go off with multiple Simian Spirit Guides though...)
My only concern with Slaughter Games is that it can be too slow on the draw game 3 but I guess it's just not a good matchup and you have to hope they stumble.
Here's a new list splashing black.
4x Bloodstained Mire
2x Cinder Glade
4x Copperline Gorge
2x Dakmor Salvage
1x Forest
4x Ghost Quarter
3x Mountain
1x Raging Ravine
2x Stomping Ground
4x Wooded Foothills
2x Tectonic Edge
4x Lightning Bolt
2x Eternal Witness
4x Faithless Looting
4x Life from the Loam
4x Magmatic Insight
2x Worm Harvest
4x Molten Vortex
4x Seismic Assault
2x Anger of the Gods
3x Kitchen Finks
2x Naturalize
2x Nature's Claim
2x Bojuka Bog
2x Shatterstorm
2x Slaughter Games
My board is
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Golgari Charm
2 Pyroclasm
2 Ghost Quarter
2 Guttural Response
2 Slaughter Games
List is
4x Blackcleave Cliffs
1x Blood Crypt
1x Forest
1x Ghost Quarter
4x Graven Cairns
1x Lavaclaw Reaches
1x Mountain
1x Overgrown Tomb
3x Scalding Tarn
1x Steam Vents
2x Stomping Ground
1x Swamp
1x Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4x Verdant Catacombs
1x Watery Grave
4x Faithless Looting
2x Flame Jab
1x Inquisition of Kozilek
4x Life from the Loam
3x Raven's Crime
4x Smallpox
1x Worm Harvest
Instant (7)
2x Abrupt Decay
3x Desperate Ravings
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Seismic Assault
Creature (4)
4x Young Pyromancer
Now, most of the board choices are fairly obvious. What I tend to struggle with is what I board out. I play a lot of 4c loam in legacy and it's very common to board out the loams(all 2 of them) against fast decks like infect or burn. Is it ever a good idea to board out loam?(if so, all of them or just keep it to a 1 of?) Do you guys ever board out lands? Again, I find myself boarding out the 1-of Ghost Quarter if I find it's mostly useless.
I've also had games where basically all my cards are so good against the other deck that I board out some of the slower and less reliable dig like Desperate Ravings and the corresponding blue duals.(Watery Grave and Steam Vents) E.g., Against affinity and I board in Golgari Charm, Pyroclasm, Ancient Grudge, and I find myself at a loss for finding bad cards to board out(this is where I was considering cutting loams)
What are everyone's thoughts?
Cards are not money, investments, or a retirement fund, and should never have been treated as such.
Wizards made a mistake caving to speculators once, and we still pay for that mistake 19 years later.
Happy is the man who has broken the chains that hurt the mind and given up worrying once and for all. Be patient and tough. One day this pain will be useful to you.