In response to your list. If you could see yourself going without the jace or snap you could probably run delver and remand. It could give you even more aggressive starts and you should still have enough spells to flip the old wizard.
I think an Eternal Witness or frankly even a Den Protector isn't a bad call. Especially in decks like mine where I'm not running 6-7 Seismic/Vortex effects and have cut down to 3-4 of them (though as I've said before I play 4 and really didn't like cutting down to 3). I don't think the new black land is that good, but an Eternal Witness effect is certainly a reasonable idea.
The list I've been playing includes Delver which I like a lot. If you do try Delver, I think you need some Serum Visions / Telling Time to set them up, unless you can figure out a way to run 26+ instants/sorceries. Also, I'm a huge fan of Negate as the go to counter right now. I'm currently playing a package of: 3 Negate / 2 Spell Snare / 1 Izzet Charm for permission. I have a difficult time choosing between Spell Snare and Spell Pierce still.
I tried flip-Jace also and didn't like him because I didn't have that many proactive Instants and Sorceries to used once he flipped.
Last thought, anyone that hasn't tried Magmatic Insight, please do. Report back with impressions, I love them.
I think it's too slow. If you're under pressure, you don't have time to durdle around like that and if you're not under pressure, I'd rather just clock my opponent with manlands. I still like the land as a way to bring back Goyfs and friends
@zinabi - In the situation you described usually assault effects are the only way we have the board under control. So in your application it seems like it is unnecessary. Unless you are accounting for top deck enchantment hate.
@fiddly - insight is great in this deck!
@badabingbadaboom - I do agree with your accessment. In that scenario man lands are the better option. Ravine represents a very quick clock that grows with each attack.
How do you feel about 2-3 Cryptics in the list or would that tax the mana-base too hard?
Did you feel Jace was worth his weight?
Jace was bad. Every time I cast him, he died without ever activating a single time, let alone flipping.
I think Cryptic will push the mana too hard. Its already tight to get RRR for assault while playing my other cards. Right now the deck runs pretty well on 4/5 lands (I rarely play more than that, just save the rest for shocks)
In response to your list. If you could see yourself going without the jace or snap you could probably run delver and remand. It could give you even more aggressive starts and you should still have enough spells to flip the old wizard.
My original version did have delver in the Jace slot, but in the handful of test games, he just didnt flip reliably, and that version had more instants/sorceries than the current build (it was more of a temur delver, with a side of assault/loam).
You are totally right that Jace can get dropped (Snap has been bananas though, so he is definitely staying). Im going to try the SB Oozes in the main instead, since that should give me a bit more early pressure.
I think an Eternal Witness or frankly even a Den Protector isn't a bad call. Especially in decks like mine where I'm not running 6-7 Seismic/Vortex effects and have cut down to 3-4 of them (though as I've said before I play 4 and really didn't like cutting down to 3). I don't think the new black land is that good, but an Eternal Witness effect is certainly a reasonable idea.
Witness seems like it could be great, especially for a build that doesnt run more than 4x assault/vortex effects. I worry about the GG, but it may still be worth testing as a 1x
In response to your list. If you could see yourself going without the jace or snap you could probably run delver and remand. It could give you even more aggressive starts and you should still have enough spells to flip the old wizard.
My original version did have delver in the Jace slot, but in the handful of test games, he just didnt flip reliably, and that version had more instants/sorceries than the current build (it was more of a temur delver, with a side of assault/loam).
You are totally right that Jace can get dropped (Snap has been bananas though, so he is definitely staying). I'm going to try the SB Oozes in the main instead, since that should give me a bit more early pressure.
Snapcaster definitely seems nice. I was just considering if you wanted to make room for delver of secrets, it would certainly aid in flipping him more successfully. Ooze is a great option. It can certainly help you manage your opponent's ability to cast delve creatures, keep goyfs within a reasonable p/t to easily kill, etc. It also benefits from the main goal of the deck, which is board control. Eats up every last scrap of creatures and gets very aggressive. I like ooze a lot.
Hey, just getting started with this deck and looking for some advice. I've gone and ordered the cards for Raphel Levy's version that he took to GP Copenhagen (http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/article.asp?ID=12636&writer=Raphael Levy), and I was wondering what changes you guys would make to it. So far I've been thinking of adding a couple molten vortexs and that new card from origins, where you discard a land to draw 2, however I'm not entirely sure what to cut.
If you are partial to the ray of revelation in the board of that list then only add 3 cliffs and keep the shrine. It is a perfectly find sideboard plan that he has going. Otherwise I would personally trade jund charms and rays for 3 golgari charm and 3 rakdos charm. Both of them can fog/prevent twin from killing in 1 hit, it gives you yard hate, artifact hate, enchantment hate, regen on your creatures (should you need it) board wipe of weenies/tokens. The pyroclasm effect of jund charm isn't much better than golgari charm as most creatures you will be removing are going to be toughness <2>. Engineered Explosives is also something to consider. Especially if you keep the shrine as a possible 4th counter on EE. That would be my suggestion, unless you like his board. Again, his board is perfectly fine but not quite my cuppatea.
Looks like we got some more lands! Blighted Fen is an outside possiblity for those of us playing black, but Blighted Woodland seems interesting as the closest thing modern has to a Krosan Verge.
I like blighted fen, but the rest of that cycle of lands is a joke to us at best. We can maybe make use of the blue one in a more controlling rug build, but that seems sketchy at best. Maybe blighted Gorge could be used as an alternate win condition.
I agree, i love blighted fen, but the rest is limited fodder, which is fine. I'm also intrigued by the etb tapped cycle, mortuary mire in particular. I might try those in my jund version, getting back milled creatures (even if it is just on top of the deck) sounds nice. I'm currently running only one set of a creature, which is huntmaster of the fells. Buying back a milled or bolted copy is very appealing, especially for such a strong creature.
I'm not in love with colorless of single color mana producing lands for this deck but they might be worth it.
Here's where 'im at with the deck. I've been running a RUG Gifts Ungiven version for a while,which is pretty different than most of what i'm seeing here, but it's probably one of my favorite decks. Just feels like it has game against anything you'll end up against. Here's what im working with..
What do you guys think of a take like this? I've been running it for a while, and it feels pretty great. I have been thinking about testing some number of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, but i'm worried about them just becoming a lightning rod. I've also been wanting to go back up to 3 Assault but i can decide what to cut for it..
Personally I would cut the spell skite in the main board and drop a needle in the sideboard. I am not sure what needle is there for, but it seems sub-par.
I personally just prefer to outright kill an ooze with an izzet charm, lightning bolt or assault activation. Needle seems very loose for the task you are setting it for. As for relic you just have to gradually dredge into land and hold a firm hand of land, shocking here and there until you have enough for the final blow.
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The list I've been playing includes Delver which I like a lot. If you do try Delver, I think you need some Serum Visions / Telling Time to set them up, unless you can figure out a way to run 26+ instants/sorceries. Also, I'm a huge fan of Negate as the go to counter right now. I'm currently playing a package of: 3 Negate / 2 Spell Snare / 1 Izzet Charm for permission. I have a difficult time choosing between Spell Snare and Spell Pierce still.
I tried flip-Jace also and didn't like him because I didn't have that many proactive Instants and Sorceries to used once he flipped.
Last thought, anyone that hasn't tried Magmatic Insight, please do. Report back with impressions, I love them.
@fiddly - insight is great in this deck!
@badabingbadaboom - I do agree with your accessment. In that scenario man lands are the better option. Ravine represents a very quick clock that grows with each attack.
Jace was bad. Every time I cast him, he died without ever activating a single time, let alone flipping.
I think Cryptic will push the mana too hard. Its already tight to get RRR for assault while playing my other cards. Right now the deck runs pretty well on 4/5 lands (I rarely play more than that, just save the rest for shocks)
My original version did have delver in the Jace slot, but in the handful of test games, he just didnt flip reliably, and that version had more instants/sorceries than the current build (it was more of a temur delver, with a side of assault/loam).
You are totally right that Jace can get dropped (Snap has been bananas though, so he is definitely staying). Im going to try the SB Oozes in the main instead, since that should give me a bit more early pressure.
Witness seems like it could be great, especially for a build that doesnt run more than 4x assault/vortex effects. I worry about the GG, but it may still be worth testing as a 1x
Snapcaster definitely seems nice. I was just considering if you wanted to make room for delver of secrets, it would certainly aid in flipping him more successfully. Ooze is a great option. It can certainly help you manage your opponent's ability to cast delve creatures, keep goyfs within a reasonable p/t to easily kill, etc. It also benefits from the main goal of the deck, which is board control. Eats up every last scrap of creatures and gets very aggressive. I like ooze a lot.
Mana base
-1 Tectonic Edge
-1 Blood Crypt
-1 Godless Shrine
-1 Polluted Delta
+4 Blackcleave Cliffs
Creatures
-2 Golgari Brownscale
-1 Squee, Goblin Nabob
-4 Bloodghast
Spells
-1 Conflagrate
-2 Go for the Throat
-4 Zombie Infestation
+2 Seismic Assault
+1 Abrupt Decay
+2 Terminate
+4 Molten Vortex
+1 Raven's Crime
+4 Magmatic Insight (the card you are referring to)
Cubetutor Link
I'm not in love with colorless of single color mana producing lands for this deck but they might be worth it.
Magic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Spellskite
3 Gifts Ungiven
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
2 Izzet Charm
2 Spell Snare
3 Lightning Bolt
2 Roast
1 Electrolyze
1 Anger of the Gods
1 Slagstorm
1 Pyroclasm
2 Seismic Assault
1 Molten Vortex
1 Noxious Revival
3 Misty Rainforest
3 Scalding Tarn
3 Wooded Foothills
4 Sulfur Falls
2 Steam Vents
2 Stomping Ground
1 Breeding Pool
1 Island
1 Forest
1 Mountain
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Tectonic Edge
3 Dragon's Claw
2 Pithing Needle
1 Rending Volley
1 Combust
1 Negate
1 Dispel
1 Ancient Grudge
1 Deglamer
1 Unravel the Æther
1 Damping Matrix
1 Torpor Orb
1 Spellskite
What do you guys think of a take like this? I've been running it for a while, and it feels pretty great. I have been thinking about testing some number of Jace, Vryn's Prodigy, but i'm worried about them just becoming a lightning rod. I've also been wanting to go back up to 3 Assault but i can decide what to cut for it..