This is big. It's still red-intensive, but getting to drop it on turn 1 seems pretty massive for this deck. I don't know what the correct split is going to be between this and Assault.
I would go 3 assault and 2 of this. If I even ran this. The fact that this makes 5 mana for 6 damage as opposed to assault being 2 mana for 6 damage is a huge turn off. The fact this drops early is nice, but the mana you have to pump into it is just not ideal at all.
Being able to resolve Molten Vortex on turn one when you may not have much else going on, as the second spell in a turn or using only one mana while holding up other mana you need to hold open for whatever reason seems useful. That's not even considering easing the manabase considerations of trying to build around needing BB for Smallpox, RRR for Seismic and G.
In addition, with it in play, it makes all of your turns very efficient as extra red mana can be used effectively during opponents end steps. Vortex might need some thought put into how to build the deck; but it certainly seems worth consideration for this archetype.
Molten vortex looks like sweet tech for this deck. I'm imagining a list somewhat like this:
4 Vortex
4 LftL
4 Goyf
4 Bolt
x Confidant
x Faithless Looting
x Commune with the Gods
x Abrupt Decay
x Liliana
x Thoughtseize / IoK
x Tasigur / Angler
x Maelstrom Pulse
x Murderous Cut
x Pyroclasm / Anger of the Gods
Etc. All the "x"s seem like potential includes, and I'm fairly sure about the 16 card core. What are some of the pros and cons of each direction? A strictly RG list is appealing but clearly lacks something in flexibility. RGb seems good, but how much do we splash? I'm new to the archetype, but this card seems like the real deal.
You should practice more with assault and if you goldfish, just imagine having to pay R every time you want to activate it. Believe me this new card is at best a 2 of aside 3 or 4 assault. The R for activation is a lot steeper than I think many realize.
You should practice more with assault and if you goldfish, just imagine having to pay R every time you want to activate it. Believe me this new card is at best a 2 of aside 3 or 4 assault. The R for activation is a lot steeper than I think many realize.
I'm in agreement with you, especially considering that red is just a splash color in my deck for Faithless Looting, Flame Jab, and Seismic Assault in the SB. I like to keep color intensity to a minimum with my 4c list. However, I could see a straight Gruul list using Vortex as redundant copies of Seismic Assault. Even then, the ability to tap out on your turn and still have Seismic triggers is huge, and Vortex isn't so friendly. We can also look at it like this: Molten Vortex requires a larger mana investment. RR=2 damage, RRR=4 damage, RRR=6 damage etc. The mana investment on Seismic is much more generous, it's not uncommon to get 9 damage through the turn you put it down. The ability to play Vortex turn 1 seems shiny and new, but I'd rather be Looting or Raven'sing.
Oh wow, I just saw Hallowed Moonlight. This card essentially takes a dump on my deck.
Hey guys! I like the idea of Assault Loam, I have tried Jund pox loam (with pyro) in the past but felt lacking and the multiple double colored mana in almost every direction it's absurd with the mana curve, So... we all know Blood Moon is bonkers right know in modern, and I would pretty much like to play it in the shell, this is a rought first draft of something I would like to play the core being:
Still issues with the win condition, I feel Countryside Crusher is super strong after a Loam (6/6 for 3) and can end games fast with Assault. This is a rough sketch and maybe needs some Pyroclasm/Anger main board, I split 2/2 Mulch and Commune because it is important to either find Blood Moon/Seismic Assault or Countryside Crusher/Eternal Witness (we might have dredged the enchantment) and without testing I dunno what is more relevant.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
I would replace looting with this. Actual card advantage with none of the downside of looting. If you are currently running ravings, this definitely replaces that. But pretty sweet turn 1 play knowing turn 2 you get the land back.
I would replace looting with this. Actual card advantage with none of the downside of looting. If you are currently running ravings, this definitely replaces that. But pretty sweet turn 1 play knowing turn 2 you get the land back.
You could play both, ensures you have a T1 draw and pitching Lands is fine. This gets better late game while Looting will always have Flashback.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
I think the advantage of Molten Vortex is that being able to put it out at t1 keeps it out of discard/counter range and allows you to have some sort of defensive/offensive early mechanic: somewhat like a non-boltable grim lavamancer. You may not use it as wincon like you would use assault (although it may serve as wincon given the proper circumstance). I'd try a 2/3 split of vortex/assault.
I think Vortex + Assault would be sweet in some 4C Gifts abomination.
A huge plus for Vortex is that it lets you shoot things early / dodges counters. Eating mana only sucks if you have other things you want to be doing, but again Vortex can come early and stall until you get Assault online for free activations.
Red should be burn, Goblins, Dragons, draw/discard, and Standard-unplayable 5CMC cards with insane, lengthy effects that take 10 minutes to figure out what they do and another 20 to actually make their effects work on the field.
Magmatic Insight is really good. I think it's supplementary to Looting, but I think this deck has needed extra digging power for a long time now (hence my Tibalt build). I'll be testing it as a 3-of.
This card looks like it has potential to be broken wide open in various formats. I wouldn't be surprised if it goes the way of Treasure Cruise.
T1 Fetch Magmatic Insight, T2 Fetch Loam get back 3 land cards. Omfg
I love it
edit: it's also important to remember that you can replace one or both of the Insight draw effects with Loam dredging
Magmatic insight is no treasure cruise, but i believe it will have application outside of strictly synergic deck like loam. I could easily see it in decks with a critical mass of cantrips like storm for exemple. When you play a lot of draw spell you will draw extra lands and trading one of them for 2 fresh cards is great, not to mention pyromancer ascension copies don't recquire extra lands to be discarded.
Alternatively, we can use this new toy to generate more value, albeit less explosively, while using liliana and decay to keep the opponent's creatures down:
It may also be worthwhile to cut Liliana in favor of more targeted removal as it doesn't interact well with Pyromancer, could just as easily be Smallpox, Bolt or Smother.
I also predict that opposing Raging Ravines will become problematic with the rise of Jund, so it could be worthwhile to increase our Ghost Quarter count.
All of the lands with the cycling ability are too old to be modern legal. They would be very good and i'd love to see them reprinted but they are not modern legal for now.
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This is big. It's still red-intensive, but getting to drop it on turn 1 seems pretty massive for this deck. I don't know what the correct split is going to be between this and Assault.
Cubetutor Link
In addition, with it in play, it makes all of your turns very efficient as extra red mana can be used effectively during opponents end steps. Vortex might need some thought put into how to build the deck; but it certainly seems worth consideration for this archetype.
Molten vortex looks like sweet tech for this deck. I'm imagining a list somewhat like this:
4 Vortex
4 LftL
4 Goyf
4 Bolt
x Confidant
x Faithless Looting
x Commune with the Gods
x Abrupt Decay
x Liliana
x Thoughtseize / IoK
x Tasigur / Angler
x Maelstrom Pulse
x Murderous Cut
x Pyroclasm / Anger of the Gods
Etc. All the "x"s seem like potential includes, and I'm fairly sure about the 16 card core. What are some of the pros and cons of each direction? A strictly RG list is appealing but clearly lacks something in flexibility. RGb seems good, but how much do we splash? I'm new to the archetype, but this card seems like the real deal.
I'm in agreement with you, especially considering that red is just a splash color in my deck for Faithless Looting, Flame Jab, and Seismic Assault in the SB. I like to keep color intensity to a minimum with my 4c list. However, I could see a straight Gruul list using Vortex as redundant copies of Seismic Assault. Even then, the ability to tap out on your turn and still have Seismic triggers is huge, and Vortex isn't so friendly. We can also look at it like this: Molten Vortex requires a larger mana investment. RR=2 damage, RRR=4 damage, RRR=6 damage etc. The mana investment on Seismic is much more generous, it's not uncommon to get 9 damage through the turn you put it down. The ability to play Vortex turn 1 seems shiny and new, but I'd rather be Looting or Raven'sing.
Oh wow, I just saw Hallowed Moonlight. This card essentially takes a dump on my deck.
Still issues with the win condition, I feel Countryside Crusher is super strong after a Loam (6/6 for 3) and can end games fast with Assault. This is a rough sketch and maybe needs some Pyroclasm/Anger main board, I split 2/2 Mulch and Commune because it is important to either find Blood Moon/Seismic Assault or Countryside Crusher/Eternal Witness (we might have dredged the enchantment) and without testing I dunno what is more relevant.
//Artifact
1 Crucible of Worlds
//Creature (11)
4 Birds of Paradise
4 Countryside Crusher
3 Eternal Witness
//Enchantment (6)
3 Blood Moon
3 Seismic Assault
//Instant (4)
4 Lightning Bolt
//Sorcery (13)
2 Commune with the Gods
4 Faithless Looting
1 Flame Jab
4 Life from the Loam
2 Mulch
3 Copperline Gorge
2 Fire-Lit Thicket
5 Forest
2 Ghost Quarter
1 Kessig Wolf Run
1 Mountain
2 Raging Ravine
1 Rootbound Crag
3 Stomping Ground
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Wooded Foothills
2 Ancient Grudge
2 Anger of the Gods
2 Destructive Revelry
2 Obstinate Baloth
3 Pyroclasm
3 Rending Volley
1 Thragtusk
Thoughts?
You could play both, ensures you have a T1 draw and pitching Lands is fine. This gets better late game while Looting will always have Flashback.
A huge plus for Vortex is that it lets you shoot things early / dodges counters. Eating mana only sucks if you have other things you want to be doing, but again Vortex can come early and stall until you get Assault online for free activations.
I'm spinning around now with the Idea of a Board-Control heavy List.
could be the Loam-Package
controlling the Board
finishes the Job
Vortex favors heavy R Builds while Insight favors playing many Lands.
Maybe there are some Utility-Lands out there we could try to abuse?
Green @ it's best
Cubetutor Link
T1 Fetch Magmatic Insight, T2 Fetch Loam get back 3 land cards. Omfg
I love it
edit: it's also important to remember that you can replace one or both of the Insight draw effects with Loam dredging
4 Verdant Catacombs
1 Marsh Flats
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Temple Garden
1 Godless Shrine
1 Urborgh, Tomb of the Yawgmoth
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
3 Graven Cairns
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
1 Plains
4 Boborygmos, Enraged
1 Elesh Norn, Grand Cenobite
Spells: 27
3 Liliana of the Veil
4 Life from the Loam
2 Flame Jab
3 Raven's Crime
4 Unburial Rites
3 Lingering Souls
2 Mulch
4 Faithless Looting
2 Abrupt Decay
3 Magmatic Insight
Alternatively, we can use this new toy to generate more value, albeit less explosively, while using liliana and decay to keep the opponent's creatures down:
4 Verdant Catacombs
2 Bloodstained Mire
1 Wooded Foothills
1 Blood Crypt
1 Stomping Ground
1 Overgrown Tomb
1 Godless Shrine
1 Urborg, Tomb of the Yawgmoth
1 Raging Ravine
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Fire-Lit Thicket
4 Graven Cairns
3 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Forest
1 Swamp
1 Mountain
4 Young Pyromancer
Spells:
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Seismic Assault
4 Life from the Loam
2 Flame Jab
3 Raven's Crime
4 Lingering Souls
4 Faithless Looting
4 Abrupt Decay
4 Magmatic Insight
It may also be worthwhile to cut Liliana in favor of more targeted removal as it doesn't interact well with Pyromancer, could just as easily be Smallpox, Bolt or Smother.
I also predict that opposing Raging Ravines will become problematic with the rise of Jund, so it could be worthwhile to increase our Ghost Quarter count.