play an Snapcaster turn 2 and race them with it+burn. There will be a point in the game in which they will no longer we able to just ignore your bolts and helixes, so when they tap to counter them, just resolve a geist or an ajani.
Keep an eye on mindslaver, and you should be fine.
As a MonoU player I can say you must apply pressure ASAP. The Snapcaster line may work as Tron player shouldn't waste counters on Bolts and Helixes.
It's definitely a favorable matchup for Tron. After SB you may want to bring in Dispel or Counterflux to ensure a resolved Geist, which usually means GG. Sundering Titan and Mindslaver are your worst enemies.
play an Snapcaster turn 2 and race them with it+burn. There will be a point in the game in which they will no longer we able to just ignore your bolts and helixes, so when they tap to counter them, just resolve a geist or an ajani.
Keep an eye on mindslaver, and you should be fine.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I did. I tested it for a couple of hours with a friend and it's not favorable. I know we're trying to move away from Restoration Angel, but it's the card that I always wanted in this matchup since it lets me leave my mana up and rebuy cliques.
As far as sideboarding goes, what do you normally bring in? It's just annoying to play against this deck because they can blank mana leaks pretty fast and remands are not that great against them when they have all the mana to recast their spells.
As a MonoU player I can say you must apply pressure ASAP. The Snapcaster line may work as Tron player shouldn't waste counters on Bolts and Helixes.
It's definitely a favorable matchup for Tron. After SB you may want to bring in Dispel or Counterflux to ensure a resolved Geist, which usually means GG. Sundering Titan and Mindslaver are your worst enemies.
I know what you mean. Slaver lock is pretty much game. Since you've played both decks, aside from Flux and Dispels, what are other cards that UWR midrange brings in against them?
Stony Silence for sure. It's not end game, but delays Tron a lot, so you gain a couple turns to burn your opponent's life points.
When I play Tron I really hate to see Restoration Angel and Cliques. They either kill me quickly or prevent me from playing an early TfK to avoid a flash creature in response.
Aven Mindcensor is good. Responding to a cracked Expedition Map or Treasure Mage with it is backbreaking a lot of times.
Keep a couple Paths in. A lot of times I play against UWR I'll keep Wurmcoils in because people side out Path.
Sowing Salt is ok. It's not something you want to rely upon on that matchup because tapping four mana on turn 4 to cast a sorcery versus that deck is suicide. But you can take advantage of misplays from your opponent (like tapping out to play Solemn Simulacrum) and get a big advantage (the deck can still operate if the game goes long, but the odds are totally in your favor now).
Stony Silence for sure. It's not end game, but delays Tron a lot, so you gain a couple turns to burn your opponent's life points.
When I play Tron I really hate to see Restoration Angel and Cliques. They either kill me quickly or prevent me from playing an early TfK to avoid a flash creature in response.
Aven Mindcensor is good. Responding to a cracked Expedition Map or Treasure Mage with it is backbreaking a lot of times.
Keep a couple Paths in. A lot of times I play against UWR I'll keep Wurmcoils in because people side out Path.
Sowing Salt is ok. It's not something you want to rely upon on that matchup because tapping four mana on turn 4 to cast a sorcery versus that deck is suicide. But you can take advantage of misplays from your opponent (like tapping out to play Solemn Simulacrum) and get a big advantage (the deck can still operate if the game goes long, but the odds are totally in your favor now).
I haven't tried out Sowing Salt vs U Tron. I personally don't like it because you are leaving yourself open for a blowout if the Tron player managed to counter that. I probably won't be bringing it in. I would probably bring in mindcensors just because it's flash.
There are times when I bounce their only untapped Island if I'm trying to cast a geist the following turn. As long as they do not cast Emrakul or Mindslaver next turn I'm not that worried.
Have seen the list before, the main seems ok (i think 3 cryptics are a bit too much tough, but i really like 3 vendilion cliques) and the side seems really meta-tuned with all the one-offs that overlap, so i cant really say anything about it.
I was able to watche Cheon's stream when he was tuning the list. You won't get a lot of value with your Resto against decks like Jund or UWR mirrors because your blink targets die pretty fast. But against the combo MU, she's pretty good because you don't have to tap out a lot and you have a better chance of blinking her.
I'll definitely try this list and see how far it would take me. And yes, I also agree to get the most out of Resto, you need to run 3 Cliques main.
Playing Restoration Angel and 3 Cryptics main is probably a meta call... the deck want to have a good MU vs combo pre board. Resto and Cryptics can be sided out for EE, PTE and Thundermaws when you are trying to race against a creature heavy deck.
i think we'll see more UW decks and less URW ones, and i am pretty sure (very happy to fail in this prevision, obviously!) we are not gonna see our "traditional" build in top8, but we could see some unexpected ones (maybe some different creatures)
Why do you think there will be more UW variants? I personally feel that someone would only play UW if it's a Tron list or if they have a tight budget.
you know, LSV's list is not that different from what we're discussing here. i think the base is 95% the same between everyone, and we're only talking a 4 or 5 card difference.
Its interesting to note that LSV´s list seems a lot more tempo than what we have discussed here.
No ajani, no batterskull or thundermaw means he curves at 4 with resto angel, also no sphinxs means hes not aiming for a long game at all.
Even if he runs 3 command, which i find kind of odd with his creature line up, its pretty obvious hes going to try to out-tempo every other deck out there backed with clique ripping hands appart, remand delaying thins, and resto for added value.
Its interesting to note that LSV´s list seems a lot more tempo than what we have discussed here.
No ajani, no batterskull or thundermaw means he curves at 4 with resto angel, also no sphinxs means hes not aiming for a long game at all.
Even if he runs 3 command, which i find kind of odd with his creature line up, its pretty obvious hes going to try to out-tempo every other deck out there backed with clique ripping hands appart, remand delaying thins, and resto for added value.
yep, looks that way. not sure why he's playing a 3/2 split of leak to remand if that's the case, though.
yep, looks that way. not sure why he's playing a 3/2 split of leak to remand if that's the case, though.
The one of spell snare is probably there to give your opponent the illusion that you are loaded with countermagic. You could just swap it for the 3rd remand.
thanks to whomever pressed 2x wear / tear in the board, btw. that card is legit.
I haven't pressed for it in this thread, but i do run 2x in the board. They are a solid addition and sided in more often than people would expect I reckon. I'm surprised how often I cast both sides in one go (against Merfolk it is fantastic taking out a Seas and a Vial in one go early game.
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Are you referring to the traditional UW decks that plays with a bunch of 3 drops and Restoration Angels? I've seen a couple do well, but I personally feel the UWR versions are better because it gives us more options.
Most of the players that I know started with a stock UW list. They only did this because it doesn't require you to use fetch lands. But after they've acquired fetches, they eventually added the red splash, added bolts, helixes and electrolyze to their existing decks. There might be a few exceptions, but most of the time it is due to budget constraints.
I have done some play testing of my UWR geist deck, although it isn't completed yet, and the one card I don't see TONS of in these decks that confuses me is Elspeth...
If you compare Elspeth to Resto Angel directly...
Resto:
YAY for extra snapcasting and vendilion cliquing...
Save that Geist from damage by blinking it out (although it will run into the same problem next turn)
Cool, a 3/4 flyer than can surprise the opponent...
Elspeth:
Why remove Geist when you can just turn him into a 5/5 flyer?
Need blockers against aggro? Look no further...
Ultimate, especially if you don't use it to kill her, all but wins you the game and is always so easy to get with her...
As much as this deck is "midrange," when most of the decks are running so much burn, turn 3 geist into turn 4 elspeth and swinging for 9 in the air is almost impossible to beat since you have already path to exiled them, spell snared them, and lightning bolted them...
And honestly, all this talk about combo seems kind of pointless to me...maybe you lose game 1...MAYBE...but if you are playing heavy control which most of these decks do and you lose to combo you should rethink your strategy more than your deck...
The only deck that truly HATES on this deck is tron, but that is why you sideboard in aven mindcensors and even some land destruction...
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Keep an eye on mindslaver, and you should be fine.
It's definitely a favorable matchup for Tron. After SB you may want to bring in Dispel or Counterflux to ensure a resolved Geist, which usually means GG. Sundering Titan and Mindslaver are your worst enemies.
Yeah, that's pretty much what I did. I tested it for a couple of hours with a friend and it's not favorable. I know we're trying to move away from Restoration Angel, but it's the card that I always wanted in this matchup since it lets me leave my mana up and rebuy cliques.
As far as sideboarding goes, what do you normally bring in? It's just annoying to play against this deck because they can blank mana leaks pretty fast and remands are not that great against them when they have all the mana to recast their spells.
I know what you mean. Slaver lock is pretty much game. Since you've played both decks, aside from Flux and Dispels, what are other cards that UWR midrange brings in against them?
When I play Tron I really hate to see Restoration Angel and Cliques. They either kill me quickly or prevent me from playing an early TfK to avoid a flash creature in response.
Aven Mindcensor is good. Responding to a cracked Expedition Map or Treasure Mage with it is backbreaking a lot of times.
Keep a couple Paths in. A lot of times I play against UWR I'll keep Wurmcoils in because people side out Path.
Sowing Salt is ok. It's not something you want to rely upon on that matchup because tapping four mana on turn 4 to cast a sorcery versus that deck is suicide. But you can take advantage of misplays from your opponent (like tapping out to play Solemn Simulacrum) and get a big advantage (the deck can still operate if the game goes long, but the odds are totally in your favor now).
I haven't tried out Sowing Salt vs U Tron. I personally don't like it because you are leaving yourself open for a blowout if the Tron player managed to counter that. I probably won't be bringing it in. I would probably bring in mindcensors just because it's flash.
There are times when I bounce their only untapped Island if I'm trying to cast a geist the following turn. As long as they do not cast Emrakul or Mindslaver next turn I'm not that worried.
I'll definitely try this list and see how far it would take me. And yes, I also agree to get the most out of Resto, you need to run 3 Cliques main.
Playing Restoration Angel and 3 Cryptics main is probably a meta call... the deck want to have a good MU vs combo pre board. Resto and Cryptics can be sided out for EE, PTE and Thundermaws when you are trying to race against a creature heavy deck.
Why do you think there will be more UW variants? I personally feel that someone would only play UW if it's a Tron list or if they have a tight budget.
for instance, mine:
-2 Angel
-1 Leak
-1 Clique
-1 Command
+2 Ajani
+1 Path
+1 Snare
+1 Scepter
No ajani, no batterskull or thundermaw means he curves at 4 with resto angel, also no sphinxs means hes not aiming for a long game at all.
Even if he runs 3 command, which i find kind of odd with his creature line up, its pretty obvious hes going to try to out-tempo every other deck out there backed with clique ripping hands appart, remand delaying thins, and resto for added value.
yep, looks that way. not sure why he's playing a 3/2 split of leak to remand if that's the case, though.
The one of spell snare is probably there to give your opponent the illusion that you are loaded with countermagic. You could just swap it for the 3rd remand.
I'm just curious how he sides vs Pod.
I haven't pressed for it in this thread, but i do run 2x in the board. They are a solid addition and sided in more often than people would expect I reckon. I'm surprised how often I cast both sides in one go (against Merfolk it is fantastic taking out a Seas and a Vial in one go early game.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Are you referring to the traditional UW decks that plays with a bunch of 3 drops and Restoration Angels? I've seen a couple do well, but I personally feel the UWR versions are better because it gives us more options.
Most of the players that I know started with a stock UW list. They only did this because it doesn't require you to use fetch lands. But after they've acquired fetches, they eventually added the red splash, added bolts, helixes and electrolyze to their existing decks. There might be a few exceptions, but most of the time it is due to budget constraints.
If you compare Elspeth to Resto Angel directly...
Resto:
YAY for extra snapcasting and vendilion cliquing...
Save that Geist from damage by blinking it out (although it will run into the same problem next turn)
Cool, a 3/4 flyer than can surprise the opponent...
Elspeth:
Why remove Geist when you can just turn him into a 5/5 flyer?
Need blockers against aggro? Look no further...
Ultimate, especially if you don't use it to kill her, all but wins you the game and is always so easy to get with her...
As much as this deck is "midrange," when most of the decks are running so much burn, turn 3 geist into turn 4 elspeth and swinging for 9 in the air is almost impossible to beat since you have already path to exiled them, spell snared them, and lightning bolted them...
And honestly, all this talk about combo seems kind of pointless to me...maybe you lose game 1...MAYBE...but if you are playing heavy control which most of these decks do and you lose to combo you should rethink your strategy more than your deck...
The only deck that truly HATES on this deck is tron, but that is why you sideboard in aven mindcensors and even some land destruction...