With all of the recent success of the jeskai nahiri control, I would like to ask a pivotal question. What are we doing here, in midrange jeskai geist, that is better than what nahiri control is doing?
nahiri pros:
(Mostly) Game winning combo
more redundancy with card filtering
enchantment removal mainboard
can mainboard board wipes
geist pros:
faster clock, more proactive
restoration angel
nahiri cons:
very slow to close out games without nahiri or if she is killed
I just checked out his last update as well, Lavamancer is interesting and so is Izzet Charm, but I'm way less positive about him cutting Spell Snare (although he explained the reason in very detailed fashion) and I don't like Logic Knot. Cutting Cryptics seems fine to me. On the other hand, I still favor Remand over Leak. Remand, unlike Leak, is never a dead card.
Are we forever to be split on this? I love remand, but I've talked at length about how the Geist deck is not well suited to capitalize on the tempo advantage Remand generates. Out threats cost more than the counter spell, and too often you end up Remanding the scary thing, only for them to still have it. It isn't really an answer unless you're Remanding the spell, and doing something to further end the game, ideally hitting them with Geist. That's why for a long time I settled on the 2/2 split, which after testing, the rest of the #TeamGeist brain trust guys also adopted. It wasn't easy to get Larry Swasey off of four Remands, but eventually the consensus of Scott McCallum, Jason Clark, and me convinced him. I'd still be running the split if I didn't feel like the meta has been in a bad place for Remand. One thing not to forget, we're a MUCH better Leak deck than traditional Jeskai Control. They actively seek to take the game to a state where Leak is dead, we try to end the game before that happens.
Logic Knot has been great. My only concern at present is running Snaps, Grim, and Logic Knot all alongside on another. I'll do some calculations at some point, but so far it hasn't been an issue.
Why am i doing something wrong if i dont like resto? I feel like she is a very reactive card, and elsepth is proactive, and she beats face. Seriously i have seen elspeth more than resto, and everytime im happy it's elspeth instead of resto. I like bashing in with a flying geist rather than saving a 2/2 geist and having my angel get pathd/terminate/etc...
A planeswalker is harder to answer and absorbs damage if they dont have a maelstrom pulse, which is perfect for me.
So can you say she is "all around better than Knight errant"? I just think they do dofferent things and elsepth gears more towards what i wanna do. I havent cut it yet cuz im open to reasoning, im just giving you my opinion.
Care to rebuttal? (this is not sarcasm btw, im asking a sincere question) lol
*also i get it. Avacyn probably isnt good here. No sideboard slots for her lol
Why is Resto reactive while Elspeth is proactive? That distinction doesn't make much sense to me.
And to be clear, I didn't say Avacyn isn't good. I just said it's no sb card for Abzan CoCo. I run Avacyn myself as 1 of out of the sideboard.
Elspeth is a rather clunky card in the majority of MUs. Slow and not very relevant. She's nice only vs BGx and not even great there. It works well together with Geist, but when you don't have a Geist it doesn't do much.
Resto is a very solid card. It combines well with Snapcaster and Clique as well, not only with Geist. It's a flash creature that flies. Great vs blue based control, we need instant speed cards. Elspeth is clunky there. In general flashing in a Resto is always pretty good, you can save a creature, block and kill an opposing attacker, or just cast it in EOT and go to the face. It allows you to hold mana open. This is a deck that operates mainly at "flash" speed. It used to be called UWR Flash.
Elspeth can be fine as a 1of, maybe a 2of. I personally don't think she makes the cut. But in any case she definitely can't replace what Resto does.
I'll just add to this that Restoration Angel is one of the best cards in the deck, the to the point I've been happy to run four. The only reason I am not at the moment is because I am prioritizing the second Grim Lavamancer over the fourth Angel.
Yes Elspeth jumps Geist, but in a way so does Restoration Angel, only what she does is better than jumping Geist. She allows Geist to attack (offensive) by coming down to save him, and then sits back on blocking duty (defensive). Additionally, the fact that she is actually contributing to your board state is HUGE as it helps you win damage races. Also not to be over looked, chaining multiple Restoration Angels is likely GG against many decks. Attack with Geist, save with Resto, hit for four, keep a 3/4 on blocking duty. Again, attack with Geist plus Resto #1, save geist with Resto #2, hit for seven in the air, keep a 3/4 on blocking duty. Next turn, attack with Geist plus Resto #1 & Resto #2, hit for 10 in the air, who cares if Geist dies at this point. That is 21 damage. The second Resto is really just icing on the cake, because the first two attacks with only one Restoration Angel to save geist total up to 11 damage in the air, and you still have a Resto to deal another three, plus a deck full of burn. When we're a control deck, Restoration Angel is often blinking a Snapcaster Mage to buy back more removal, or acting as a functional removal spell by blocking an aggressive creature.
With all of the recent success of the jeskai nahiri control, I would like to ask a pivotal question. What are we doing here, in midrange jeskai geist, that is better than what nahiri control is doing?
nahiri pros:
(Mostly) Game winning combo
more redundancy with card filtering
enchantment removal mainboard
can mainboard board wipes
geist pros:
faster clock, more proactive
restoration angel
nahiri cons:
very slow to close out games without nahiri or if she is killed
geist cons:
requires combat to win
How is everyone else thinking on this?
It's worth mentioning that Geist is actually quite good against Nahiri as he is the only creature that can come down before her and one shot her. Also, Nahiri doesn't help improve any of Controls bad matchups (Tron for example) where we have a better time thanks to Geist
That being said, Nahiri just overall makes Jeskai Control a better deck than it was. I still think it's a positive matchup for us, but it certainly has gotten more difficult.
You all make some very strong points, no doubt. So ive decided to run 2 resto and 2 elspeth.
When i made the comparison resto being reactive, i meant usually it seems like we wait for one of our good creatures are out, to save it with resto, making it a reactive card. While elspeth she comes down, and you usually pump a geist or v clique for a big swing, which is what i have been doing so far. Only 1 game did i not have a creature so i just made a soldier token instead.
So ill be going to modern on Wednesday and be giving another report.
As the nahiri discussion, i dont want to add her to my deck for sure. I plan on countering her for the most part, and if she lands, i pray i have a geist or bolt snap bolt lol
I was not suggesting we add her to our deck. Nahiri is not optimal in midrange. What I was asking is are we playing a sub optimal version of jeskai? It's the same question blue moon had to ask while twin was legal.
Now I am not saying midrange is worse. All I'm doing is asking the question. What are doing better than nahiri control?
GreatNate pointed out that nahiri doesn't shore up our bad matchups like tron. And he noted that we have a good matchup against the control jeskai.
Does Nahiri improve any split matchups we have? I don't think it does significantly.
I'm just trying to ask the important question with the recent success of a deck very similar to ours (both run 4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 snapcaster, 4 path, 4-6 counters, 1+ electrolyze, and pretty much the same lands).
You all make some very strong points, no doubt. So ive decided to run 2 resto and 2 elspeth.
When i made the comparison resto being reactive, i meant usually it seems like we wait for one of our good creatures are out, to save it with resto, making it a reactive card. While elspeth she comes down, and you usually pump a geist or v clique for a big swing, which is what i have been doing so far. Only 1 game did i not have a creature so i just made a soldier token instead.
So ill be going to modern on Wednesday and be giving another report.
As the nahiri discussion, i dont want to add her to my deck for sure. I plan on countering her for the most part, and if she lands, i pray i have a geist or bolt snap bolt lol
Waiting is not always the right move with Resto Angel. Sometimes the right choice is to play her as a simple 3/4 flash flying beater. I had a low opinion of Resto angel when I first started playing this deck too, and that was because I wasn't using her aggressively enough.
Here's the link to my report on the Indy Open. I included thoughts on card choices as well.
As far as the debate about Resto and Elspeth goes, Resto is one of the best cards in the deck. I had a pretty mild opinion of the card for a long time, seeing it as just a way to save Geist that also provides a beater, but the card is actually incredibly hard to deal with. 4-mana 3/4 strains removal pretty hard. That being said, Elspeth is also a great card, and curving Geist into Elspeth is incredibly powerful. I've previously played as many as two Elspeth, and when your goal is to just aggro your opponent out, that can be fine, but you shouldn't just discredit Resto. When I've played 2 Elspeths, I've played 2 Resto (and two Lightning Angel which is also great).
Are we forever to be split on this? I love remand, but I've talked at length about how the Geist deck is not well suited to capitalize on the tempo advantage Remand generates. Out threats cost more than the counter spell, and too often you end up Remanding the scary thing, only for them to still have it. It isn't really an answer unless you're Remanding the spell, and doing something to further end the game, ideally hitting them with Geist. That's why for a long time I settled on the 2/2 split, which after testing, the rest of the #TeamGeist brain trust guys also adopted. It wasn't easy to get Larry Swasey off of four Remands, but eventually the consensus of Scott McCallum, Jason Clark, and me convinced him. I'd still be running the split if I didn't feel like the meta has been in a bad place for Remand. One thing not to forget, we're a MUCH better Leak deck than traditional Jeskai Control. They actively seek to take the game to a state where Leak is dead, we try to end the game before that happens
Your reasonings make sense for the most part. And I agree that this is not the best deck for Remand.
And yet. When this deck used to have some real success several years ago, almost everybody was running 4 copies of Remand. People run Remand in Control decks like Jeskai Control. People run Remand in Grixis Delver, an even more midrangey and less tempo deck than ours. The truth is the card is more than what it seems. It's not mere tempo advantage. It's the cantrip that's so relevant. Especially in a Snap deck 'cause when you start flashing back Remands it feels really good. I have no idea how many times Remand saved me from mana screw by finding that land drop. And like I said thanks to the cantrip the card is never dead, sometimes you Remand your own spells to find what you need. Additionally Remand does act similar to a hard counter in some cases: vs flashback cards, cards with suspend and cards with delve. Remanding cards that have additional casting costs (life, sacrificing things) is also pretty sweet. And in many cases it does time walk our opponent because they ain't got enough mana to re-cast the spell or haven't got the right colors anymore.
Now it is true that Remand is not very good at grinding. But is Leak? Not much. It's generally a bad topdeck and can trade with our opponent's threats only in the first 4-5 turns. Grindy MUs usually go well beyond those turns. I don't think counterspells are a good way to grind people out. We have sideboard options if we want to be doing that. Jund is indeed on the rise and you don't solve this by replacing Remand with Leak IMHO, but with sideboard "bombs" like planeswalkers and big creatures.
On Lavamancer, I've tested it for just a few matches, and had the feeling it sometimes matches poorly with Snap. There aren't many cards we don't care to remove actually. I'm not writing him off but I'm saying I see problems. Maybe if I were really that concerned about Infect and Affinity (which I'm not, I think they're great MUs), I'd just run additional burn spells over Lavamancer, like Forked Bolt and Electrolyze.
On Jeskai Control, my feeling is we are not favorite anymore. However, Nahiri is not the issue. Nahiri versions are better MUs for us. Ancestral Vision is the issue. Like you GreatNate pointed out some time ago, suspended turn 1 Vision is usually too much for us. We just get easily outgrinded by that card. I'd rather have to deal with Nahiri (Remand is just great there..) than with an opponent with 8 cards in hand by turn 4.
And finally, another thing: I've got the feeling Keranos is getting worse. Nahiri can remove it. Same is true for Purge, a card people will run more precisely to answer Nahiri. And same is true for Hide/Seek, another anti-Nahiri card people will start playing (by the way we could add a Watery Grave and put one in our SBs as well if we wanted to). Also, Keranos is bad when opponents play lots of creatures. And most people do play lots of creatures nowadays. So given Keranos is getting worse, I've been thinking about Goblin Dark-Dwellers. Very grindy creature, if you get to blink it with Resto it's usually game.
I ran the old list through a league recently.
It was the no Serum Visions, four Remands list, and there is no way I'd go back to that.
I was not suggesting we add her to our deck. Nahiri is not optimal in midrange. What I was asking is are we playing a sub optimal version of jeskai? It's the same question blue moon had to ask while twin was legal.
Now I am not saying midrange is worse. All I'm doing is asking the question. What are doing better than nahiri control?
GreatNate pointed out that nahiri doesn't shore up our bad matchups like tron. And he noted that we have a good matchup against the control jeskai.
Does Nahiri improve any split matchups we have? I don't think it does significantly.
I'm just trying to ask the important question with the recent success of a deck very similar to ours (both run 4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 snapcaster, 4 path, 4-6 counters, 1+ electrolyze, and pretty much the same lands).
The question that's important to ask is not so much whether or not Nahiri improves split matchups, but whether Control is better positioned than Midrange in the Jeskai colors. I think Nahiri serves a similar function to Geist in that she is a difficult to interact with 3 turn clock.
Since both Geist and Nahiri grant free wins on an empty board, I question whether having a bunch of midrange threats like Resto/additional Cliques/Avacyn/T-maw/etc. is better than board wipes and additional removal/counters.
Personally, the main draw of midrange was that I could quickly finish opponents when I gained an advantage. Blue in Modern has a lot of narrow imperfect answers and with the old Jeskai Control you had no guarantee you would draw the right ones. For example, if you stabilized at 6 life vs. Burn when they were topdecking, you were potentially 2 crummy draws from being dead. Geist enables you to finish off Burn quickly before they can draw what they needed to kill you. Nahiri now serves a similar function in the Control lists, with of course the differences being
1. Nahiri synergizes less with Burn and requires the ult to kill, unlike Geist, who often only needs to swing in once to let Burn/flyers take care of the rest.
2. Geist is a one turn faster clock if you are dropping both cards on curve, important against Combo and Tron.
3. Having Nahiri on your board is much more useful than a Geist that is bricked by a Kitchen Finks or something.
I felt that the Jeskai Midrange deck, when it wasn't being a beast and running over opponents with Geist, often transformed into a crummier Jeskai control once Geist got bricked on the ground or you had a more reactive draw.
I've decided to switch over because I think the balance has tipped- Control now gets most of the free wins Geist would have gotten you but with the benefit of going all in on a Control strategy rather than having it as a plan B.
What do we think of playing (in the sideboard) some number of Invasive Surgery? There are a lot of sorcery spells that can pick us apart, like hand disruption from Jund and Abzan, Pyroclasm from Tron, Ancestral Vision (and possibly Dreadbore) from Grixis. I think it's worth testing some number of them and seeing how they perform. It's just unfortunate to play against Grixis and have our only defense against Vision be Mana Leak, Remand or Izzet Charm (or Cryptic if you're still running them).
Also, what has everyone turned to as their Keranos replacement? Or are you still running it? I feel like it's far less playable now than pre-Nahiri, and have tried out Gideon Jura in it's slot (alongside an Elspeth, Sun's Champion) but I don't know that I'm fully satisfied with it and am trying to think of some other options. Currently on the brain are Thundermaw, Stormbreath, Baneslayer, Dragonlord Ojutai, Ajani Vengeant, Jace Architect of Thought, Tamiyo (seems bad, but I've heard murmurings that it's worked well for others), or even another Elspeth.
I had a quick question regarding Geist of Saint Traft (and most likely a stupid one). I'm currently playing it in my sideboard of one of my control decks, and I was wondering where you lot found it to be at its best? Not in junction with the surrounding burn and removal, but just when Geist as a card pulled the most weight. Like, I know that it can single-handedly win a game against a control player and can sufficiently race a deck like Tron or Combo, but I was wondering about matchups like Burn, or Infect for that matter.
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I had a quick question regarding Geist of Saint Traft (and most likely a stupid one). I'm currently playing it in my sideboard of one of my control decks, and I was wondering where you lot found it to be at its best? Not in junction with the surrounding burn and removal, but just when Geist as a card pulled the most weight. Like, I know that it can single-handedly win a game against a control player and can sufficiently race a deck like Tron or Combo, but I was wondering about matchups like Burn, or Infect for that matter.
Dude, Geist hoses burn, 6 damage along with bolts, helixes and electrolyzes is brutal
Infect is more about attritioning them than racing
I sold my Keranos on MTGO, want to get rid of him before he plummets. He's still a house against Jund and Junk, but Nahiri has almost single-handely killed off one of the best blue sideboard cards in modern
Went through your new list and your article on the sideboard plan
You said you wen't something like 4-4 in the tournament, do you feel that the new changes may have been a contribution to that? Cutting the snares, the remands, are the Grim's and the other changes worth it? Answering something like a Goyf, for 1 mana is a pretty big deal, it also answers the typical counter-spell
Would you still absolutely recommend the same list going to a big tournament, or did you get unlucky with pairings? How do you feel about Nahiri and playing a Jeskai deck that isn't utilizing her, do you feel you're better off playing Jeskai Flash or being stubborn wanting it to work over the new Nahiri deck?
What do we think of playing (in the sideboard) some number of Invasive Surgery? There are a lot of sorcery spells that can pick us apart, like hand disruption from Jund and Abzan, Pyroclasm from Tron, Ancestral Vision (and possibly Dreadbore) from Grixis. I think it's worth testing some number of them and seeing how they perform. It's just unfortunate to play against Grixis and have our only defense against Vision be Mana Leak, Remand or Izzet Charm (or Cryptic if you're still running them).
Also, what has everyone turned to as their Keranos replacement? Or are you still running it? I feel like it's far less playable now than pre-Nahiri, and have tried out Gideon Jura in it's slot (alongside an Elspeth, Sun's Champion) but I don't know that I'm fully satisfied with it and am trying to think of some other options. Currently on the brain are Thundermaw, Stormbreath, Baneslayer, Dragonlord Ojutai, Ajani Vengeant, Jace Architect of Thought, Tamiyo (seems bad, but I've heard murmurings that it's worked well for others), or even another Elspeth.
Remand against Ancestral Vision seems more than enough. At least, in theory. Haven't played against it enough to know for sure. Invasive Surgery...is a card I haven't had a chance to tinker with yet; however, from what I've heard, it's just ok. Like TheAller said, Counterflux probably more or less does what it does but better. Surgery's advantage in being able to stop Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek is kinda nice though. It's a point I hadn't considered. Not sure that's where we really want to be against Jund/Junk. I like Gideon. Been playing him in the main for a while. Good card. Does basically what any other big creature finisher does.
I had a quick question regarding Geist of Saint Traft (and most likely a stupid one). I'm currently playing it in my sideboard of one of my control decks, and I was wondering where you lot found it to be at its best? Not in junction with the surrounding burn and removal, but just when Geist as a card pulled the most weight. Like, I know that it can single-handedly win a game against a control player and can sufficiently race a deck like Tron or Combo, but I was wondering about matchups like Burn, or Infect for that matter.
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily side in Geist vs. Burn. Usually I'm siding out some number. But I don't hate the card vs. them. For starters, he's a decent "wall," in that he's hexproof. Him actually walling stuff is unlikely but sometimes you can prevent a small dork or a guide from swinging in. Or hell, if they want to swing in with Goblin Guide, they can. Trade with the sucker all day. Only downside is that he's a 3-mana investment, and he loses to Kird Ape, Thalia, etc. I might consider swapping a Clique for him or vice versa depending on how the match has been going. Clique is more versatile and in theory tucking burn is nice. But they have so much of it that they'll probably top deck the next burn spell. And furthermore, she's highly unreliable as far as blocking goes because of how fragile she is. This is where SOMETIMES I prefer Geist over her. If you resolve Geist on a critical turn, sometimes if you can stabilize, he'll be at-the-ready to turn the corner.
Tron, Combo, and Control tends to be where Geist can carry the game on his own. This is where he shines best, but Tron kills you with over-the-top spells. Same for combo. Control has sweepers. These things you have to look out for.
Geist is going to almost always need help before he can swing in; the field needs to be mostly clear. But since we're a deck full of removal, it'll naturally happen anyway. Eventually there will be a board where Geist will swing in. Against Infect, Geist isn't as good. I'd rather just grind out value against them with stuff like Staticaster, Spellskite, and lots of burn and paths. V-Clique is better here.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Does anybody believe Trickbind deserves a sideboard spot? Counters Nahiri's -8 and has other applications (Abzan Company, Tron, Kiki-Jiki, Thopter Foundry).
I don't really like cards like this, Squelch, and Shadow of Doubt. Not because they're bad but because they're either too narrow or too broad. Could be neat tech though. I wouldn't be opposed to running it. I just generally prefer tried and true answers like trying to counter their Nahiri.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Slaughter Games is a card I have been having a lot of success with out of the sideboard. It stops Nahiri (making them a bolt snap bolt / colonnade deck at that point), scapeshift, and other combo decks pretty hard. And it's easy to cast and cannot be countered.
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nahiri pros:
(Mostly) Game winning combo
more redundancy with card filtering
enchantment removal mainboard
can mainboard board wipes
geist pros:
faster clock, more proactive
restoration angel
nahiri cons:
very slow to close out games without nahiri or if she is killed
geist cons:
requires combat to win
How is everyone else thinking on this?
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
Are we forever to be split on this? I love remand, but I've talked at length about how the Geist deck is not well suited to capitalize on the tempo advantage Remand generates. Out threats cost more than the counter spell, and too often you end up Remanding the scary thing, only for them to still have it. It isn't really an answer unless you're Remanding the spell, and doing something to further end the game, ideally hitting them with Geist. That's why for a long time I settled on the 2/2 split, which after testing, the rest of the #TeamGeist brain trust guys also adopted. It wasn't easy to get Larry Swasey off of four Remands, but eventually the consensus of Scott McCallum, Jason Clark, and me convinced him. I'd still be running the split if I didn't feel like the meta has been in a bad place for Remand. One thing not to forget, we're a MUCH better Leak deck than traditional Jeskai Control. They actively seek to take the game to a state where Leak is dead, we try to end the game before that happens.
Logic Knot has been great. My only concern at present is running Snaps, Grim, and Logic Knot all alongside on another. I'll do some calculations at some point, but so far it hasn't been an issue.
Grim has over performed.
I'll just add to this that Restoration Angel is one of the best cards in the deck, the to the point I've been happy to run four. The only reason I am not at the moment is because I am prioritizing the second Grim Lavamancer over the fourth Angel.
Yes Elspeth jumps Geist, but in a way so does Restoration Angel, only what she does is better than jumping Geist. She allows Geist to attack (offensive) by coming down to save him, and then sits back on blocking duty (defensive). Additionally, the fact that she is actually contributing to your board state is HUGE as it helps you win damage races. Also not to be over looked, chaining multiple Restoration Angels is likely GG against many decks. Attack with Geist, save with Resto, hit for four, keep a 3/4 on blocking duty. Again, attack with Geist plus Resto #1, save geist with Resto #2, hit for seven in the air, keep a 3/4 on blocking duty. Next turn, attack with Geist plus Resto #1 & Resto #2, hit for 10 in the air, who cares if Geist dies at this point. That is 21 damage. The second Resto is really just icing on the cake, because the first two attacks with only one Restoration Angel to save geist total up to 11 damage in the air, and you still have a Resto to deal another three, plus a deck full of burn. When we're a control deck, Restoration Angel is often blinking a Snapcaster Mage to buy back more removal, or acting as a functional removal spell by blocking an aggressive creature.
It's worth mentioning that Geist is actually quite good against Nahiri as he is the only creature that can come down before her and one shot her. Also, Nahiri doesn't help improve any of Controls bad matchups (Tron for example) where we have a better time thanks to Geist
That being said, Nahiri just overall makes Jeskai Control a better deck than it was. I still think it's a positive matchup for us, but it certainly has gotten more difficult.
When i made the comparison resto being reactive, i meant usually it seems like we wait for one of our good creatures are out, to save it with resto, making it a reactive card. While elspeth she comes down, and you usually pump a geist or v clique for a big swing, which is what i have been doing so far. Only 1 game did i not have a creature so i just made a soldier token instead.
So ill be going to modern on Wednesday and be giving another report.
As the nahiri discussion, i dont want to add her to my deck for sure. I plan on countering her for the most part, and if she lands, i pray i have a geist or bolt snap bolt lol
Thanks you very much DarkNightCavalier for the Sig.
Now I am not saying midrange is worse. All I'm doing is asking the question. What are doing better than nahiri control?
GreatNate pointed out that nahiri doesn't shore up our bad matchups like tron. And he noted that we have a good matchup against the control jeskai.
Does Nahiri improve any split matchups we have? I don't think it does significantly.
I'm just trying to ask the important question with the recent success of a deck very similar to ours (both run 4 bolt, 4 helix, 4 snapcaster, 4 path, 4-6 counters, 1+ electrolyze, and pretty much the same lands).
Commander
U Tetsuko Umezawa, Fugitive
RG Zilortha, Strength Incarnate
WU Yorion, Sky Nomad
As far as the debate about Resto and Elspeth goes, Resto is one of the best cards in the deck. I had a pretty mild opinion of the card for a long time, seeing it as just a way to save Geist that also provides a beater, but the card is actually incredibly hard to deal with. 4-mana 3/4 strains removal pretty hard. That being said, Elspeth is also a great card, and curving Geist into Elspeth is incredibly powerful. I've previously played as many as two Elspeth, and when your goal is to just aggro your opponent out, that can be fine, but you shouldn't just discredit Resto. When I've played 2 Elspeths, I've played 2 Resto (and two Lightning Angel which is also great).
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
I ran the old list through a league recently.
It was the no Serum Visions, four Remands list, and there is no way I'd go back to that.
The question that's important to ask is not so much whether or not Nahiri improves split matchups, but whether Control is better positioned than Midrange in the Jeskai colors. I think Nahiri serves a similar function to Geist in that she is a difficult to interact with 3 turn clock.
Since both Geist and Nahiri grant free wins on an empty board, I question whether having a bunch of midrange threats like Resto/additional Cliques/Avacyn/T-maw/etc. is better than board wipes and additional removal/counters.
Personally, the main draw of midrange was that I could quickly finish opponents when I gained an advantage. Blue in Modern has a lot of narrow imperfect answers and with the old Jeskai Control you had no guarantee you would draw the right ones. For example, if you stabilized at 6 life vs. Burn when they were topdecking, you were potentially 2 crummy draws from being dead. Geist enables you to finish off Burn quickly before they can draw what they needed to kill you. Nahiri now serves a similar function in the Control lists, with of course the differences being
1. Nahiri synergizes less with Burn and requires the ult to kill, unlike Geist, who often only needs to swing in once to let Burn/flyers take care of the rest.
2. Geist is a one turn faster clock if you are dropping both cards on curve, important against Combo and Tron.
3. Having Nahiri on your board is much more useful than a Geist that is bricked by a Kitchen Finks or something.
I felt that the Jeskai Midrange deck, when it wasn't being a beast and running over opponents with Geist, often transformed into a crummier Jeskai control once Geist got bricked on the ground or you had a more reactive draw.
I've decided to switch over because I think the balance has tipped- Control now gets most of the free wins Geist would have gotten you but with the benefit of going all in on a Control strategy rather than having it as a plan B.
Also, what has everyone turned to as their Keranos replacement? Or are you still running it? I feel like it's far less playable now than pre-Nahiri, and have tried out Gideon Jura in it's slot (alongside an Elspeth, Sun's Champion) but I don't know that I'm fully satisfied with it and am trying to think of some other options. Currently on the brain are Thundermaw, Stormbreath, Baneslayer, Dragonlord Ojutai, Ajani Vengeant, Jace Architect of Thought, Tamiyo (seems bad, but I've heard murmurings that it's worked well for others), or even another Elspeth.
UW Control
UWR Geist
UWR Control
GWSelvala and the Return to HumanityGW
UWDragonlord Ojutai, Control's Elder DragonUW
UBGTasigur, the God-Pharaoh's Gift to EDHUBG
UBRNicol Bolas and his Super
friendsPawnsUBRModern
UWUW Control/Midrange/Bad JundUW
WUBRGHumansWUBRG
BGMidrangeBG
Dude, Geist hoses burn, 6 damage along with bolts, helixes and electrolyzes is brutal
Infect is more about attritioning them than racing
Went through your new list and your article on the sideboard plan
You said you wen't something like 4-4 in the tournament, do you feel that the new changes may have been a contribution to that? Cutting the snares, the remands, are the Grim's and the other changes worth it? Answering something like a Goyf, for 1 mana is a pretty big deal, it also answers the typical counter-spell
Would you still absolutely recommend the same list going to a big tournament, or did you get unlucky with pairings? How do you feel about Nahiri and playing a Jeskai deck that isn't utilizing her, do you feel you're better off playing Jeskai Flash or being stubborn wanting it to work over the new Nahiri deck?
Remand against Ancestral Vision seems more than enough. At least, in theory. Haven't played against it enough to know for sure. Invasive Surgery...is a card I haven't had a chance to tinker with yet; however, from what I've heard, it's just ok. Like TheAller said, Counterflux probably more or less does what it does but better. Surgery's advantage in being able to stop Thoughtseize and Inquisition of Kozilek is kinda nice though. It's a point I hadn't considered. Not sure that's where we really want to be against Jund/Junk. I like Gideon. Been playing him in the main for a while. Good card. Does basically what any other big creature finisher does.
I mean, I wouldn't necessarily side in Geist vs. Burn. Usually I'm siding out some number. But I don't hate the card vs. them. For starters, he's a decent "wall," in that he's hexproof. Him actually walling stuff is unlikely but sometimes you can prevent a small dork or a guide from swinging in. Or hell, if they want to swing in with Goblin Guide, they can. Trade with the sucker all day. Only downside is that he's a 3-mana investment, and he loses to Kird Ape, Thalia, etc. I might consider swapping a Clique for him or vice versa depending on how the match has been going. Clique is more versatile and in theory tucking burn is nice. But they have so much of it that they'll probably top deck the next burn spell. And furthermore, she's highly unreliable as far as blocking goes because of how fragile she is. This is where SOMETIMES I prefer Geist over her. If you resolve Geist on a critical turn, sometimes if you can stabilize, he'll be at-the-ready to turn the corner.
Tron, Combo, and Control tends to be where Geist can carry the game on his own. This is where he shines best, but Tron kills you with over-the-top spells. Same for combo. Control has sweepers. These things you have to look out for.
Geist is going to almost always need help before he can swing in; the field needs to be mostly clear. But since we're a deck full of removal, it'll naturally happen anyway. Eventually there will be a board where Geist will swing in. Against Infect, Geist isn't as good. I'd rather just grind out value against them with stuff like Staticaster, Spellskite, and lots of burn and paths. V-Clique is better here.
I don't really like cards like this, Squelch, and Shadow of Doubt. Not because they're bad but because they're either too narrow or too broad. Could be neat tech though. I wouldn't be opposed to running it. I just generally prefer tried and true answers like trying to counter their Nahiri.