MTG Salvation

It does essentially turn off Emrakul for a late game trump. Very unlikely they will be able to assemble mana required without Tron. This is probably more relevant to the control UWR shell, but I don't think it's insignificant for midrange either.

In the past little bit I am 26-8. My 8 losses are:
Melira Company
Kiki Chord (misplay cost me the game)
Abzan
Owl (that artifact that hurts you for having a full hand)
White Taxes (landlocked with ghost quarter and Leonin Arbiter)
Blue Tron
Rg Tron
Rg Tron

I've beaten:
4 Color Control
Abzan Allies
Affinity
Affinity
B/W Humans
B/W Tokens
Blitzkreig
Bloodcrank
Burn
G Stompy
Grixis Control
Grixis Control
Grixis Delver
Grixis Twin
Jund
Merfolk
Naya Burn
Naya Stompy
Owl
Red Aggro
Red Aggro
RUG Twin
Scapeshift
Slivers
UWR Control
White Taxes

That is a 76% Win Rate. Except against Tron.
As you can see the hardest pairing is Tron. I have yet to beat it other than in solo testing. I have not played against Amulet Bloom yet. Or Blood Moon but I have seen lots of Choke. Choke and Blood Moon you can play around and I run Wear // Tear for. Tron, I'm still at a loss for. As you can see with my previous posts I am just looking for a way to beat them consistently and without Blood Moon.

How has the rest of the group fared?

The deck is running Red so Fulminator Mage is an optional sideboard that would help with Tron. Mainboard Path to Exile works in that match up for killing Wurmcoil and Emrakul as well.

Path to Exile does not kill Emrakul.

Ah yeah, my bad, got it mixed up with the indestructible one. Emrakul is basically GG in any case but if you Crumble to Dust one of their Tronlands it becomes practically impossible to cast and Path deals with Wurmcoil Engine.

I lost a game when I killed emrakul. Crackling doom can do it. But then it shuffles back and gets retutored and cast. I do like fulminator mage but double red is tough.

Has anyone tried magus of the moon?

Quote from TheAller »

Still trying to find the right balance between Geist and Souls:

GeistofStDoom's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
Maindeck (60 cards) 4 Flooded Strand 4 Arid Mesa 1 Scalding Tarn 1 Hallowed Fountain 1 Steam Vents 1 Sacred Foundry 1 Watery Grave 1 Godless Shrine 1 Blood Crypt 1 Island 1 Plains 1 Mountain 3 Celestial Colonnade 2 Sulfur Falls 1 Creeping Tar Pit	4 Snapcaster Mage 2 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang 4 Path to Exile 4 Lighting Bolt 4 Serum Visions 4 Remand 2 Shadow of Doubt 4 Lightning Helix 2 Lingering Souls 2 Electrolyze 2 Crackling Doom	Sideboard (15 cards) 2 Geist of Saint Traft 2 Dispel 2 Thoughtseize 1 Wear//Tear 1 Negate 1 Celestial Purge 1 Sudden Shock 1 Hallowed Moonlight 1 Squelch 2 Lingering Souls 1 Kolaghan's Command

It's so hard because there are MUs where Souls is soooo much better than Geist and then there are MUs where Geist is soooo much better than Souls. And it's really almost like 50/50. For this reason I keep changing the numbers of both cards maindeck and in the sideboard. Going for a 2-2 split like I'm doing now is sort of a way "not to take a decision".

What do you guys think?

TheAller,

How did shadow of doubt work for you?

Here's the list I've been playing around with, its a little different but I've really enjoyed it.



In my testing, I've been immensely pleased with mantis rider and lightning angel, the amount of pressure they deliver as soon as they hit the board is just awesome. Yes, mantis rider can be bolted, but you'd be surprised at how often it goes unanswered and does some serious beating. Not to mention the fact that both these guys play offense and defense without skipping a beat, flying over board stalls while keeping up a wall. Having 2 Geist of Saint Traft feels right, I feel like I usually see him only when I need him. One change I've been considering is getting rid of cryptic command, and maybe putting in dispel, I've just felt that holding up 4 mana is not usually what I want to be doing, and I think I would rather just have a bit of 1 mana protection for my boltable friend. What do you guys think on that change and the deck in general. Feedback, suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome and encouraged.

Quote from captn_crunch »

Here's the list I've been playing around with, its a little different but I've really enjoyed it.

GeistofStDoom's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
4x mantis rider 2x geist of saint traft 3x lightning angel 1x restoration angel 4x snapcaster mage spells (22) 2x serum visions 4x lightning bolt 4x path to exile 3x lightning helix 3x mana leak 2x remand 2x electrolyze 2x cryptic command	lands (24) 3x celestial colonnade 4x arid mesa 4x scalding tarn 2x flooded strand 2x hallowed fountain 2x steam vents 1x sacred foundry 2x mountain 2x island 1x plains 1x ghost quarter	Sideboard 2x Kor Firewalker 1x Keranos, god of storms 1x Vendilion clique 1x Geist of saint traft 1x Rest in peace 2x Stony silence 2x Rending volley 1x Sphinx's revelation 2x Wear/tear 2x anger of the gods

In my testing, I've been immensely pleased with mantis rider and lightning angel, the amount of pressure they deliver as soon as they hit the board is just awesome. Yes, mantis rider can be bolted, but you'd be surprised at how often it goes unanswered and does some serious beating. Not to mention the fact that both these guys play offense and defense without skipping a beat, flying over board stalls while keeping up a wall. Having 2 Geist of Saint Traft feels right, I feel like I usually see him only when I need him. One change I've been considering is getting rid of cryptic command, and maybe putting in dispel, I've just felt that holding up 4 mana is not usually what I want to be doing, and I think I would rather just have a bit of 1 mana protection for my boltable friend. What do you guys think on that change and the deck in general. Feedback, suggestions and constructive criticism are welcome and encouraged.

Geist of Saint Traft traft is better than mantis rider. One dies to every removal spell in the format. The other only does to blocking, pyroclasm, and liliana. One puts your opponent on a 6 turn clock (assuming fetch damage) one puts them on a 3 Turn clock.
One advantage this type of deck has is that it makes all of your opponent's removal useless. Mantis rider turns it on. I also think restoration angel is better than lightning angel. Same size but one has flash and saves geist. Flash is huge.
I'd recommend upping to 4 geist and running the mantis sideboard.

Saw Geist's reply and was going to mention that on occasion I've seen a more aggro Jeskai use Mantis along side Lightning Angel, then I saw the list.

It looks interesting. I'd be inclined to cut the Cryptics and a Visions for more Remands, Helixes, and such. The shell seems like it wants to play the aggro-tempo role, not midrange-control.

Mantis Rider has the old dies to Bolt problem. Even though it's a good card it's nowhere near as good a card in Modern as Standard. It could still maybe work in the right deck.

Quote from Nevelo »

Saw Geist's reply and was going to mention that on occasion I've seen a more aggro Jeskai use Mantis along side Lightning Angel, then I saw the list.

It looks interesting. I'd be inclined to cut the Cryptics and a Visions for more Remands, Helixes, and such. The shell seems like it wants to play the aggro-tempo role, not midrange-control.

Right. I was tired when I wrote my reply. If you are going to run the Mantis Riders then there is very little reason to run the serum visions and cryptic because at that point you basically are running a heavy tempo/aggro deck. Boros Charm Remand and Lightning Helix would all immensely help that plan. I'd also want to recommend one of the hasty dragons like Thundermaw Hellkite as a finisher to get through Lingering Souls which your list is going to have trouble with.

I hope I didn't sound harsh on your list, but it does have a much different playstyle then the other lists posted here. And I really do think you are underestimating Geist of Saint Traft. For Mainboard Recommendations:

+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Lightning Helix
+2 Boros Charm
+2 Remand
-2 Serum Visions
-2 Cryptic Command
-3 Mana Leak
-1 Lightning Angel
-1 Flooded Strand
+1 Celestial Colonnade

Again, if you want a 5cc finisher, I'd drop another Lightning Angel for it. I'd also recommend dropping the Mantis Riders as a whole, but if they work for you, they work. I know that they will win games on occasion, being a multi turn lightning bolt to the face and blocker, but a lot of the time it will just be a 3cc spell that taps you out turn 3 and dies to an instant speed removal (which would leave you tapped out on your opponent's typical "combo turn").

I'm imagining you play this list as a heavy aggro list, like a 4 color burn that runs blue for snapcaster and your haste creatures and the occasional tempo remand play. That is why I recommended the Boros Charms, because burn runs them (and because they are useful with both snapcaster and geist of saint traft protection).

Captn_Crunch:

Maybe you should check out this page: It's the UWR aggro page. I think these guys lists are closer to yours then most of this page.

http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/developing-competitive-modern/220047-wur-delver

Quote from GeistofStDoom »

Geist of Saint Traft traft is better than mantis rider. One dies to every removal spell in the format. The other only does to blocking, pyroclasm, and liliana. One puts your opponent on a 6 turn clock (assuming fetch damage) one puts them on a 3 Turn clock.
One advantage this type of deck has is that it makes all of your opponent's removal useless. Mantis rider turns it on. I also think restoration angel is better than lightning angel. Same size but one has flash and saves geist. Flash is huge.
I'd recommend upping to 4 geist and running the mantis sideboard.

The thing is, I've play tested with both, and to me it seems like geist just kinda sits around waiting for the board to clear up; a flashed in snapcaster feels just as dangerous to geist as bolt does to mantis. I do think that if I run cryptic commands, Im gonna run the three resto angels. Being able to drop one of those if you dont need to use the command is awesome. If I run mantis rider, which ive liked in a lot of my testing,I think lightning angel feels pretty good, as I mentioned I really like the immediate pressure these cards are able to apply. Or what if I did 3 and 3 geist and mantis split?


On a sidenote, in terms of counterspells, I dont know how much I like 3 Leak 2 Remand, I mean it works but I think there could be better. What do you guys think about trying 3 remand 2 negate? Negate seems narrow, but it actually straight up stops a lot of different threats, and holds its value as the game goes on.

Quote from GeistofStDoom »

Quote from Nevelo »

Saw Geist's reply and was going to mention that on occasion I've seen a more aggro Jeskai use Mantis along side Lightning Angel, then I saw the list.

It looks interesting. I'd be inclined to cut the Cryptics and a Visions for more Remands, Helixes, and such. The shell seems like it wants to play the aggro-tempo role, not midrange-control.

Right. I was tired when I wrote my reply. If you are going to run the Mantis Riders then there is very little reason to run the serum visions and cryptic because at that point you basically are running a heavy tempo/aggro deck. Boros Charm Remand and Lightning Helix would all immensely help that plan. I'd also want to recommend one of the hasty dragons like Thundermaw Hellkite as a finisher to get through Lingering Souls which your list is going to have trouble with.

I hope I didn't sound harsh on your list, but it does have a much different playstyle then the other lists posted here. And I really do think you are underestimating Geist of Saint Traft. For Mainboard Recommendations:

+2 Geist of Saint Traft
+1 Lightning Helix
+2 Boros Charm
+2 Remand
-2 Serum Visions
-2 Cryptic Command
-3 Mana Leak
-1 Lightning Angel
-1 Flooded Strand
+1 Celestial Colonnade

Again, if you want a 5cc finisher, I'd drop another Lightning Angel for it. I'd also recommend dropping the Mantis Riders as a whole, but if they work for you, they work. I know that they will win games on occasion, being a multi turn lightning bolt to the face and blocker, but a lot of the time it will just be a 3cc spell that taps you out turn 3 and dies to an instant speed removal (which would leave you tapped out on your opponent's typical "combo turn").

I'm imagining you play this list as a heavy aggro list, like a 4 color burn that runs blue for snapcaster and your haste creatures and the occasional tempo remand play. That is why I recommended the Boros Charms, because burn runs them (and because they are useful with both snapcaster and geist of saint traft protection).

ah, I replied without seeing this. Well I do think you're right, I'm trying to play a slightly different strategy, although I dont think its too different. I did look at that UWR aggro primer and consider it, but I kinda liked the midrange reactive aproach. I think I could do more commitment to being aggressive though, so 2 boros charm instead of those serum visions does sound like the move. I do think I want to remove cryptics, I just tested dispel against my friend's rug twin and absolutely loved it. I'll be trying different combinations as far as my counter spell suite goes, suggestions for that are very welcome

@captn_crunch: How about: 4 Remand 0 Negate 1 Spell Pierce. If I were running your shell, I'd probably run a full set of Mantis, Lightning Angel, Snapcaster, and Geist. Then back it up with full sets of Bolt, Helix, Remand, and Path. Aggressive decks like consistency. Then again, I haven't tried the build, so perhaps this is too untuned. Maybe 2-3 Geist is correct to avoid double ups. Resto seems interesting too, but expensive when we already have a Lightning Angel (which I definitely think is better in the shell). The last 4 slots could be some mix of Electrolyze, Izzet Charm, Spell Pierce/Snare, or Boros Charm. Personally, I think I'd want to try out the Izzet Charm along side Electrolyze, with Pierces and such in the sideboard. Izzet Charm seems like a super flexible tempo card. I've used it in the past with UWR and it was reasonable. I think it would suit the aggro shell much better than shell I was running. Electrolyze is just too good not to have a couple copies of.

I agree with neveLos about the spell pierce. It would help protect your mantis riders. Dropping a turn 3 geist or mantis with a spell pierce up seems neat.

I also think you should still run Thundermaw hellkite main or side. Otherwise lingering souls will shut you down for a long time. Your deck is not suited to outlast junk and in that role you need to be pounding face. Hellkite helps accomplish this.
I like mantis rider. I like him a lot. I also like seeker of the way and monastery mentor. All 3 have seen fringe modern play. But all 3 die to the most played card in modern. If your opponent does not have a bolt than it is an awesome play. (So is Goblin guide). If they do have it then it's a big tempo swing.
About geist just sitting there. The midrange she'll is designed to clear a path for him. I bolt path and restoration angel to clear a path for him or to save him from flashed in snapcaster. Even hitting once with geist is huge. I never regret having another in hand because thend I can swing freely with him as well.

Alright, so those of us going to Pitt, do we have a final list we are happy with? I really like the idea of cutting cryptic(s) for a dispel or snare, but not quite sure if it's right. Crumble seems really good, and allows us to beat a very prominent deck. I would even consider running two in the board. But I want a list and a sideboard plan in place ASAP for final testing. Where are most of you guys on that?

Still a fan of this list overall, but not completely sold cryptic needs to be there, and could be talked into a Blood Moon(s) or Crumbles.