My favorite deck in modern. Went 7-3 in GP Richmond with it in pod era and would love to see it rise agan to the top. However, the last time i played it I went 0-4, infect is too fast, small zoo is too fast, boggles, well now, hell on wheels unless i draw my EE. Even burn blows me away. I switched to affinity for awhile in an attempt to possibly win a game or two, and love it. But geist is the lover Im dreaming about. My questions are these; Ive seen serum visions in lists, why? Do we have a combo Im not aware of? What is the point of this over counters? I have a playset and am not opposed to the idea, but why? Seems like a waste for a blue, non combo deck. Overall, why the loss of counter spells? Of any variety? I see 6-8 in most builds, seems like a solid plan to deny the opponent their win-con, but it has not worked for me. I play 10-12, but with an 0-4 it seems not to be effective. It just may be my local meta, recently moved, but I want results from this deck against the quicker decks that seem to dominate. Dismiss this as griping if you like and i will not hold it against you, but I have not figured out a plan to effectively counter fast decks besides hoping for the EE. I'm not the smartest by far, but what can one do against a turn three fair deck kill? Also, never liked planeswalkers, not the era i grew up in. Are they now essential? Should i now consider throwing in planeswalker X in over dragon? Seriously love this deck and would like to hear some reasoning from the people that manage to perform well at it, because I no longer can.
Went 3-1 last night. Beat UWr gifts, seismic loam, and burn. Lost to some Naya blitz brew. Drew terribly against Naya had him down low all three games and couldn't find a bolt or anything.
My thought is about Geist . Is it not to much, to play it 4 times? Actually, when do you play a Geist? Isn't it the worst thing to do to tap out with UWR? So do you wait usually for turn 5 to play it?
I do not have access to Scalding Tarn neither Sulfur Falls . But I guess this should not matter too much. Anyone had bad experience with that?
Is playing 3 Cryptic Command too much?
Greetz
Michael
Personally, I've been running Vjeran Horvat's 24th Place GP Copenhagen list and I really like it so far. I made very little changes if any.
Some people run a full 4. Some run 3. I'm...ok with running either number really. I kinda like 3 because getting too many is cloggy, and it tends to be wrong to jam turn 3 Geist, I feel. That said, the turns that you WANT turn 3 Geist, you'll wish you were running a full 4. When to tap out for Geist? It depends on your hand, the match-up, and board position. Sometimes it also depends on the read you pick up from your opponent. This is where having extra Geist is handy because you can jam one, if it dies, then you can jam a second one immediately. Tapping out for Geist is fine generally; it's what the deck wants to do. But it does depend on what's in your hand, and what they can do when tapped out.
I don't own Scalding Tarns nor do I own Arid Mesa. I just use 4x Polluted Delta. I've had next to no problems. Only very fringe scenarios do I wish it was a Tarn instead. I think Sulfur Falls is a little more important, if only simply because it's a U/R dual. I don't know exactly how you'd replace it. But it's not that big of a deal either. You can run Shivan Reef or something.
I like 3 Cryptic Commands. The card's awesome. You can get away with just 2 though. I tend to sideboard out 1-2 copies, due to space or it being too slow in some match-ups.
Can either you or your friend give us insight to some of the card choices? What's your reasoning for only 2 Serum Visions and not 4? Why 4x Helix/2x Electrolyze over 3/3 split? Why Eiganjo Castle instead of Shinka (to be able to cheese Rhinos/Tasigurs/etc.)?
I mainly have questions about sideboard choices and I'm curious why your friend decided to run them. I'm looking at Anger of the Gods, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, 2nd Engineered Explosives, Keranos, and Valorous Stance.
I feel like intuitively, I get a general idea as to why those are run, but I kinda wanna hear it from people who've played the cards/chose them; like why Elspeth over Gideon, or Keranos over Batterskull. I think Keranos over Batterskull makes sense if you're predicting lots of Kolaghan's Command. That seems to be most sensible, though again, maybe I'm missing something else? Does Stance just act as another removal spell in grindy GBx decks? Elspeth seems good in grindy match-ups as well, though did you side it in vs. anything else?
I've never been a big fan of Explosives at all. Just always felt too slow or clunky. But perhaps I'm wrong.
And why no Spellskite or Stony Silence?
Does this build have a better game vs. Tron?
What match-up is important enough that you dedicate a slot to Anger of the Gods? A new meta read?
Anyway, I'd appreciate any input, as I'm open to new ideas/different perspectives.
Lately, the big deck in my meta has been Jund. I want to go over my thoughts on this matchup because I have heard a lot of people talk about how difficult of a matchup this is for us, but I disagree. I think that people are too focused on the fact that geist doesn't fare well in creature combat vs jund, but there is a lot more to the matchup that tilts it in our favor in my opinion based on experience.
I have had a fairly easy time beating jund. I have found that if you can get in a hit or two with a creature, you can usually burn them out pretty easily because of how much self damage they do. I often will just launch geist into his demise so that the angel can get in for 4, or if I have the tools, you can just chain removal and win off of geist. I think something key to realize is that, we don't need to protect geist if it will put us in a position that we can get them in burn range. In this matchup, Elsepth has been a major powerhouse because it gets creatures over big blockers, and can help finish off a game through a big board state.
The only games I lose are when liliana gets out of control, making me get rid of too many resources. Between flash creatures, countermagic and burn spells though, most of the time, I can answer lili. I think the key for me in this matchup has been being able to answer their early plays, then apply a lot of pressure with fliers and geist and burn them out before they can create an overwhelming board state. It requires tight play, but I find that the matchup is good once you figure out how to play through it. It's almost like you are playing control until turn 4, then you just try to burst them down.
From the sideboard, I bring in the 2x Keranos, 2x Flashfreeze and 1x Celestial Purge, and take out 4x Remand and 1x Geist.
Keranos is a great card for the late game, it can help us make sure we are getting action in the late game by giving us another card when we draw land, and also helping close out the game by sending bolts at the opponent. Flashfreeze is another answer to most of the creatures in the deck, as well as a bunch of their removal. Purge is pretty self explanatory, it's another answer to the delve guys that bolts cant kill as well as liliana.
I remove the remands because I don't think that it is as impactful againt jund as they are in many other matchups. They are good vs the delve guys, but otherwise, bouncing a spell isn't really going to be that good most of the time when they have a lot of cheap powerful threats. I drop 1 geist, because I generally don't want to drop it turn 3 anyways.
Depending on the build, I will also want to side out my spell pierces and bring in the second negate and engineered explosives for better answers to liliana, and countering important spells in the late game.
Here is my current list for reference. I have recently been considering to try running a couple crackling doom in my board and a Blood Crypt or Watery Grave in the land base. I used to run them, and I think they might be good again.
I agree with pretty much everything you said about the Jund match-up. After having played it a bunch of times, I felt like I was winning a lot of my games fairly handedly. Just play tight; I don't feel like the deck does enough to UWR. Their discard is probably the deadliest thing against us, but they're not Esper Mentor, where they're running a full 6+ discard. At least I don't think so; didn't seem to happen to me too often in my games. And they kinda just lose to Geist. Sure, their creatures make our Geist "bad," but I feel like due to our massive amount of removal and counters, we can keep them off the board easily. Only Liliana really scares me to be honest. Huntmaster can be kinda annoying. I don't really like Elspeth in UWR Geist decks much. I like her in Esper more.
My favorite deck in modern. Went 7-3 in GP Richmond with it in pod era and would love to see it rise agan to the top. However, the last time i played it I went 0-4, infect is too fast, small zoo is too fast, boggles, well now, hell on wheels unless i draw my EE. Even burn blows me away.
Ive seen serum visions in lists, why? Overall, why the loss of counter spells? Of any variety? I see 6-8 in most builds. Also, never liked planeswalkers, not the era i grew up in. Are they now essential? Should i now consider throwing in planeswalker X in over dragon? Seriously love this deck and would like to hear some reasoning from the people that manage to perform well at it, because I no longer can.
Huh, Idk...I think you might be playing the deck wrong if you're losing to Infect. It can be a little rough, due to how fast they can be and how they demand answers...though it's not like turn 2 Tasigur, where it's Path or bust; your whole deck has removal spells to deal with ALL of their creatures. Just watch for Wild Defiance. And use your removal spells either end of their turn (not on their attack) or wait till your turn. Play smart and play tight. I've lost exactly one game to the deck out of 4+ games. And that's just recent results. The only thing hard is if you end up bricking or if it's game 1, and you keep a hand that's light on removal. Yeah, Bogles you need EE. I haven't played that match very much with Jeskai Geist; I've played a bunch with Esper Geist, and it's kinda 50/50 (who is on the play? lol).
Zoo and Affinity is interesting. Doesn't seem that bad if you draw the right half of your deck, else, it can be kinda rough. I think it should be even enough. Burn shouldn't be too bad as you can either race them or use a lot of your removal to stem the tide. Helix helps a lot. Same goes for Snapcaster --> Helix. If it's that bad, there's Spellskite in the sideboard, alongside Batterskull, Kor Firewalker, Dispel, etc. I mean, you can go full-hate by doing something like Circle of Protection, Leyline of Sanctity, Sanctimony, Timely Reinforcements, etc. You have A LOT of options.
People are experimenting with Serum Visions to boost consistency. I'm not too big on the card in this deck, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea. Some really do champion the card though. If I had any, I'd give it a try. Loss of counters? Depends on the build. Some go hard on burn. I think for the most part people are going back to having more counters. I really like them. I run 9. 2x Mana Leak, 3x Remand, 3x Cryptic Command, 1x Spell Snare. Then in the side: 2x Dispel. You can do more counters or less counters. Up to player preference.
Lol...Planeswalkers are not essential at all. If anything, they kinda suck here. Ajani isn't that good anymore, at least IMO. Elspeth is alright, but I'm not amazed. IMO Gideon is an all-star, but again, not ESSENTIAL. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting one...I haven't tested her to really know. The only ones to consider to me, are Gideon Jura, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. The rest are kinda meh. Jace, Architect of Thought might be ok. And Ajani Vengeant is an old friend...IMO unreliable friend, but he's family here. lol
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
I'm curious. What would you folks think of a one-of Cavern of Souls in the maindeck to trump all the countermagic running around lately? My main problem against Grixis, at this point, is resolving Geist around countermagic, simply because they have a greater volume of it than we do and we're trying to resolve a 3-mana sorcery speed dude.
I don't like squelch, but Sudden Shock is definitely a good option out of the sideboard. It also works wonders against infect creatures, scavenging ooze, and still takes out other small creatures like snapcaster, dark confidant, hierarch etc.
Private Mod Note
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Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Legacy : WUGBBant DeathbladeBGUW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
With this version of UWR Geist, I went away from the traditional finishers of the 4 and 5 drops of WUR Midrange in favor of more burn and aggression while still keeping the core of the field control shell intact. I patterned it off of the Standard burn/ tempo deck I was running before I quit Standard for Modern, but I used the proven cards from the traditional shell to fill the non-flex slots.
There are three main reasons for the choice of Boros Charm and Chandra,Pyromaster in the deck. Firstly, I just plain love these cards. Secondly,I've found a lot of success from using these cards in my local meta, which consists of a lot of aggro, Twin and Burn. By including Chandra and the Boros Charms, I can provide instant speed pressure with the Charm,while at the same time using Chandra's +1 to help the Geist punch through blockers. Finally, I personally feel that using noncreature win conditions makes more removal dead against me. Traditional finishers like Thundermaw Hellkite or Batterskull are vulnerable to things like Terminate or Path to Exile whereas Boros Charm can only be dealt with using disruption or counters, giving it a better chance to deal damage. From videos I have seen of UWR Midrange, the deck is either controlling but very aggressive at heart, or aggressive with enough field control to protect its threats. Personally, I am more of an aggressive player than a controlling player, so I will lean towards the more aggressive cards when deckbuilding.
I also like the aggressive style in this deck better than the slower controlling role some people take with it. The boros charms mainboard are an interesting thought. I used to run a pair of them, but eventually took them out. I have recently been thinking of putting a couple back in, especially because I play in a jund heavy meta, where my opponents are doing a lot of damage to themselves and 4dmg can really make a big difference, and as well it can give my angels and cliques indestructible vs their terminates/abrupt decays, and even geist vs. blockers.
Chandra is interesting, but I would suggest trying out Elspeth, Knight-Errant in that slot and see if you like it. She also helps geist punch through, by giving it flying and making it a 5/5 which can be absolutely bonkers if you can get it on curve. Also, she does more work on her own, as she can make 1/1's and turn them into flying 4/4s.
With the rise of Kolaghan's Command, in addition to your other points, I am also especially weary of running Batterskull.
It might be a budget thing, but I would also suggest you run a couple Vendilion Clique here, I find the flash 3/1 very strong as an aggressive play.
Private Mod Note
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Legacy : WUGBBant DeathbladeBGUW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
I really like the idea of Elspeth. I can see making room for a "test slot" in the sideboard for her, then side Chandra out for Elspeth in a few games to see how she does. perhaps a 1 and 1 split?
I do have one Clique in Sideboard. I may try and fit it main somehow.
Hey guys! I wanted to post this four-color RWub Zur deck here. It has the same core strategy as UWR, which is to win on the back of Geist and Snapcaster, so I thought it might be appropriate.
Some of my thoughts are already in the description but to add a bit more:
1)It is primarily a Geist deck but with Zur added for a late game finisher that provides steel of the godhead synergy to our creatures and additional card advantage.
2) Explanation of Techs:
Deputy of Acquittals: added not only because it is UW for Steel but also because it allows you to reuse or save many of your high-value creatures. I don't have to emphasize what it means to reuse a snapcaster mage do I? Also, it allows you to bring back the dark confidants if they are about to kill you. It all sounds good on paper but I need someone to test it.
Dark Confidant: I figured if Jund can run 10 cards that have a 3 cmc or more (one of which is a Tasigur), we can run a dark confidant. Also, we run more life gain plans than Jund, by running a playset of Lightning Helixes and Steel of the Godhead. This in conjunction with snapcaster mage theoretically gives us enough stability.
Temporal isolation: I think this is a good enchantment that is relevant with or without Zur. If it gets abrupt decayed, well that can cause some unfortunate tempo loss but I am willing to take that risk. You can also cast it on your own Geist, essentially making it a 4/4 hexproof flier if worst comes to worst. It is also a way to save Geist if you get combat tricked. Hopefully, we can take out the abrupt decays with our discard suites.
3) Blue is both the least dominant and the most dominant color in the deck. IT is necessary to cast our win cons (snapcaster mage, zur, and geist) but all the blue cards are at a high CMC. There are many times where you do not even want to cast Geist and Zur at turn 3 and 4 respectively. Snapcaster is more of a 3-4 cmc card than 2 cmc one.
The reason why red is the primary color in this deck is because of the aggro meta. Also, I believe it is the color necessary to support Geist (and obviously Snapcaster). I feel that the standard Zur deck is too fair and doesn't provide a clear field for Geist efficiently. Path to exile is mediocre in a tempo deck, which is why I don't use it here even if I could.
Need help on the mana base and adjusting certain cards - both main and sideboard - around the meta.
It has access to Crackling Doom which is good against pretty much everything besides Twin, Elves, and CoCo decks. Definitely looks less grindy and more aggressive / proactive.
Do you notice an impact on the burn matchup due to more added shocklands?
With regards to Blood Moon and Fulminator resilience, going up to 26 lands would certainly help but the aggressive nature of the black splash goes down to 24 lands. What ideas have you looked at besides Sudden Shock and Squelch?
I'm curious. What would you folks think of a one-of Cavern of Souls in the maindeck to trump all the countermagic running around lately? My main problem against Grixis, at this point, is resolving Geist around countermagic, simply because they have a greater volume of it than we do and we're trying to resolve a 3-mana sorcery speed dude.
I've never really had a problem resolving Geist against Grixis; usually you can find tempo/time. If they tap out for example. I also find their density of counters to be the same as ours. Perhaps the only difference is whether or not they run Dispel main board. Then again, I'm running a more counter-spell heavy version.
One final thought, if they're being stubborn with holding up mana constantly, I try to feint with a flash creature. That's generally more or less how I get them to react. Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage, and Restoration Angel are great at this. Electrolyze into Snapcaster --> Electrolyze is a good way to get them to react as well. Because no one actually wants to counter Electrolyze. Yet if they let Snap through, then they're eating an extra 2 damage, letting us get a draw, AND letting us keep a 2 power body. Just bait as much as you can until they crack.
The real problem with Grixis are Tasigur and Gurmag Angler. They can come down real early. They're very hard to kill; it's Path or bust -- especially so with Tasigur, as even 1 activation starts to swing card advantage in the other player's direction. They also run them in large numbers and it's very hard to deal with all of them, especially if they come down one right after the other. Your only real defense main board are counters and Path. And the counters aren't always guaranteed to hit either (1-turn-late syndrome). Postboard it gets a little better with Celestial Purge. But that's kind of it (in regards to Tasigur/Angler anyway). Honorable mention goes to Blood Moon for being an annoying card to deal with.
I'm actually frustrated: in my local meta tron is everywhere and i don't know what to do... =_=
This is what I do for the Tron match-up:
Sideboard in:
Stony Silence x2, Fulminator Mage x2, Negate, Wear//Tear (both copies if you run them; I ran only 1 at the time). I was also trying to tinker with Surgical Extraction, but I was not able to really test and know if it was worth a slot.
I was able to beat Tron today with that set-up above. It was still a rough match-up, and I wouldn't call us a favorite -- far from it.
Also main boarding Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge helps. Ghost Quarter is more efficient vs. Tron though. Other interesting things you can do is run Molten Rain and Sowing Salt. Or like, Aven Mindcensor as well, though that card feels too slow and inefficient. Shadow of Doubt is another card you can run to stop searches. A lot of these suggestions are a bit overkill; you probably can't run them all. And even if you could, it doesn't really guarantee victory, as what kills Tron is some form of fast clock. Monastery Mentor is kinda...nice against them too actually. Kinda. More of the fact that you don't have to commit much to the board meanwhile being able to have it grow and get out of hand. Thing is...it might beat blue variant trons. But probably still too slow vs. GR Tron.
What I really like about this version is the mana curve, 17 cantrips in the 75 including 5 cards that manipulate draws, and the card advantage given by Snapcaster and Souls.
I also like to lure my opponent into bringing in hate for Lingering Souls just to find out that I swapped it with Geist.
I think Shadow of Doubt is the best we can do maindeck against Tron and Amulet Bloom. The card is playable maindeck because it is useful in several MUs and it replaces itself.
Neat list. Looks like a lot of fun toys to play with; a full set of Visions, 2x Anticipates, and 2x Shadow of Doubts! Cantrip for days. Haha, that's not even including the 4x Remands.
I also have a question for you guys. I'm having a lot of trouble to deal with Fulminator Mage. So many players run fullsets in the 75 (Grixis Control, Jund, Abzan...). They also get it back with Kolaghan's Command.
Is there anything that can be done?
This card hurts me so much in the 4c version that I was even thinking about Squelch and Sudden Shock.
What do you guys think about those two cards and have you got other ideas?
I don't think it should be THAT big of a problem in the regular Jeskai lists, and you can always fetch basics. Though, the combination of Molten Rain and Fulminator makes the card hard to deal with; however, since you're running 4 colors, Squelch and Sudden Shock seem like fine choices. Sudden Shock especially. I'm iffy on Squelch, but it doesn't seem that bad. Does Trickbind fit the bill here?
I don't like squelch, but Sudden Shock is definitely a good option out of the sideboard. It also works wonders against infect creatures, scavenging ooze, and still takes out other small creatures like snapcaster, dark confidant, hierarch etc.
Can't they still insta-activate Fulminator Mage, which would make Sudden Shock miss its chance to shunt the play? Or do most people not immediately activate Fulminator Mage? I don't play against the card enough to really know.
The thing is, it isn't working wonders against Fulminator itself. It only works once, after that Mage will just get sacrificed instantly not giving us time to Sudden Shock it. Anyway I might end up running a singleton of both cards in my SB, they are also useful in other situations. Squelch combined with my Shadow of Doubt allows also a mana denial gameplan if we see our opponent has mana issues.
Yeah, that was one thing I was concerned with in regards to Sudden Shock vs. Fulminator Mage. Though I bet it's a very satisfying way to hit the card the first time around. The local players will probably never let that happen again though. lol
Hey guys! I wanted to post this four-color RWub Zur deck here. It has the same core strategy as UWR, which is to win on the back of Geist and Snapcaster, so I thought it might be appropriate.
Some of my thoughts are already in the description but to add a bit more:
1)It is primarily a Geist deck but with Zur added for a late game finisher that provides steel of the godhead synergy to our creatures and additional card advantage.
2) Explanation of Techs:
Deputy of Acquittals: added not only because it is UW for Steel but also because it allows you to reuse or save many of your high-value creatures. I don't have to emphasize what it means to reuse a snapcaster mage do I? Also, it allows you to bring back the dark confidants if they are about to kill you. It all sounds good on paper but I need someone to test it.
Dark Confidant: I figured if Jund can run 10 cards that have a 3 cmc or more (one of which is a Tasigur), we can run a dark confidant. Also, we run more life gain plans than Jund, by running a playset of Lightning Helixes and Steel of the Godhead. This in conjunction with snapcaster mage theoretically gives us enough stability.
Temporal isolation: I think this is a good enchantment that is relevant with or without Zur. If it gets abrupt decayed, well that can cause some unfortunate tempo loss but I am willing to take that risk. You can also cast it on your own Geist, essentially making it a 4/4 hexproof flier if worst comes to worst. It is also a way to save Geist if you get combat tricked. Hopefully, we can take out the abrupt decays with our discard suites.
Not gonna lie. Looks pretty cool/fun. I kinda have a soft spot for Zur. The problem though, is that I also have a sour spot for Zur as well; I've played Esper Zur for a good while, and I found that I only really liked it if/when I was playing Deathrite Shaman, which is now banned. The thing with any deck with Zur in it is that the cards for Zur and Zur himself end up being pretty damn mediocre. And they end up just wasting card slots. More Terminates seem just flat-out better than some of the stuff you're running. In general, Zur doesn't really win you the game; from my testing, usually if Zur sticks and swings, it's because we got a solid foothold of the game and board state. SOMETIMES, he literally does win the game -- I will admit that; it's happened a number of times in the past. But most of the time, the card is a dead card.
Deputy of Acquittals is a card that sounds like fun if you can get it to work; however, it's just a bear at the end of the day. Idk, I don't like it much.
I will say this though, I dislike automatically dismissing ideas without actually testing it, so who knows? Maybe there's something here to work with. Unfortunately Idk if I have much time to tinker with it.
I only lost a few games to Moon. I didn't face it so often and I usually have an answer/can play around it. I lost a lot of games to Fulminator Mage because I had to face it way more often, in multiple copies in the same games and with recursions with Kolaghan's without really having any answer.
If this is the case with Fulminator Mage being so bad for the black splash version of the deck, is there a case for NOT running any black and going more towards the "traditional" build? What's your thoughts on it?
I'm sticking to straight UWR for now; there's still some more play value and tinkering space that I haven't done yet. Nothing too crazy, I just wanna explore them before switching it up. Also might do Jeskai Geist Twin for a couple FNM's or so too.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Can't they still insta-activate Fulminator Mage, which would make Sudden Shock miss its chance to shunt the play? Or do most people not immediately activate Fulminator Mage? I don't play against the card enough to really know.
Not against Sudden Shock. Triggered abilities still work, but casting spells and (non mana) activated abilities can't be done with a card that has Split Second on the stack.
I think what he is asking is if they can play the Fulminator, then immediately sac it for the effect, which they can. In this case Sudden Shock will not help, but a lot of the time, players will hold it and try to get value out of the 2/2 body before saccing, which means you have a window to shock it.
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Legacy : WUGBBant DeathbladeBGUW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
I think what he is asking is if they can play the Fulminator, then immediately sac it for the effect, which they can. In this case Sudden Shock will not help, but a lot of the time, players will hold it and try to get value out of the 2/2 body before saccing, which means you have a window to shock it.
^Yeah, this is what I meant. That's the reason I asked is because I don't typically play against the card enough to know what the habits/tendencies people have when they cast it (Fulminator Mage).
Once they know you run it, they'll probably just immediately sac every time. Which I suppose might not be the worst thing, as that means they can't get "more" out of it, like attacking or blocking.
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Ah, yeah that is the case mainly against decks that have limited mana or specific mana requirements like Tron and Scapeshift. Against a deck like this, though, as a Jund player I would definitely try to attack/block with it before using it on a Celestial Colonnade. I think the exception might be the 4 color variant to keep them off of black mana. But from my experience, playing both decks, is that doing so seldomly seems to work out favorably for the Jund player. At best, they're buying time against a deck that also favors the mid-late game.
I think the better solution to Fulminator Mage is simply 25-26 lands and 2-3 Serum Visions. Fulminator doesn't do that much when you're not short on lands.
Any thoughts on sideboarding Snapback against Twin? Not only does it Force of Will their Splinter Twin, it bounces the Exarch/Pestermite to set them back even more. Unlike Force of Will, the casting cost is super low so it's not unreasonable to hardcast it. It hits manlands too so I could definitely see it coming in against Affinity. Oh and Amulet Bloom, or Infect, or Anafenza's Company? Massive blowout.
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RWU giest midrange
RUB grixis delver
WUB esper draw-go
edh:
RUG maelstrom wanderer
B shirei control
None of you seem to understand. I'm not locked in here with you. You're locked in here with me!
Personally, I've been running Vjeran Horvat's 24th Place GP Copenhagen list and I really like it so far. I made very little changes if any.
Some people run a full 4. Some run 3. I'm...ok with running either number really. I kinda like 3 because getting too many is cloggy, and it tends to be wrong to jam turn 3 Geist, I feel. That said, the turns that you WANT turn 3 Geist, you'll wish you were running a full 4. When to tap out for Geist? It depends on your hand, the match-up, and board position. Sometimes it also depends on the read you pick up from your opponent. This is where having extra Geist is handy because you can jam one, if it dies, then you can jam a second one immediately. Tapping out for Geist is fine generally; it's what the deck wants to do. But it does depend on what's in your hand, and what they can do when tapped out.
I don't own Scalding Tarns nor do I own Arid Mesa. I just use 4x Polluted Delta. I've had next to no problems. Only very fringe scenarios do I wish it was a Tarn instead. I think Sulfur Falls is a little more important, if only simply because it's a U/R dual. I don't know exactly how you'd replace it. But it's not that big of a deal either. You can run Shivan Reef or something.
I like 3 Cryptic Commands. The card's awesome. You can get away with just 2 though. I tend to sideboard out 1-2 copies, due to space or it being too slow in some match-ups.
Can either you or your friend give us insight to some of the card choices? What's your reasoning for only 2 Serum Visions and not 4? Why 4x Helix/2x Electrolyze over 3/3 split? Why Eiganjo Castle instead of Shinka (to be able to cheese Rhinos/Tasigurs/etc.)?
I mainly have questions about sideboard choices and I'm curious why your friend decided to run them. I'm looking at Anger of the Gods, Elspeth, Sun's Champion, 2nd Engineered Explosives, Keranos, and Valorous Stance.
I feel like intuitively, I get a general idea as to why those are run, but I kinda wanna hear it from people who've played the cards/chose them; like why Elspeth over Gideon, or Keranos over Batterskull. I think Keranos over Batterskull makes sense if you're predicting lots of Kolaghan's Command. That seems to be most sensible, though again, maybe I'm missing something else? Does Stance just act as another removal spell in grindy GBx decks? Elspeth seems good in grindy match-ups as well, though did you side it in vs. anything else?
I've never been a big fan of Explosives at all. Just always felt too slow or clunky. But perhaps I'm wrong.
And why no Spellskite or Stony Silence?
Does this build have a better game vs. Tron?
What match-up is important enough that you dedicate a slot to Anger of the Gods? A new meta read?
Anyway, I'd appreciate any input, as I'm open to new ideas/different perspectives.
I agree with pretty much everything you said about the Jund match-up. After having played it a bunch of times, I felt like I was winning a lot of my games fairly handedly. Just play tight; I don't feel like the deck does enough to UWR. Their discard is probably the deadliest thing against us, but they're not Esper Mentor, where they're running a full 6+ discard. At least I don't think so; didn't seem to happen to me too often in my games. And they kinda just lose to Geist. Sure, their creatures make our Geist "bad," but I feel like due to our massive amount of removal and counters, we can keep them off the board easily. Only Liliana really scares me to be honest. Huntmaster can be kinda annoying. I don't really like Elspeth in UWR Geist decks much. I like her in Esper more.
Huh, Idk...I think you might be playing the deck wrong if you're losing to Infect. It can be a little rough, due to how fast they can be and how they demand answers...though it's not like turn 2 Tasigur, where it's Path or bust; your whole deck has removal spells to deal with ALL of their creatures. Just watch for Wild Defiance. And use your removal spells either end of their turn (not on their attack) or wait till your turn. Play smart and play tight. I've lost exactly one game to the deck out of 4+ games. And that's just recent results. The only thing hard is if you end up bricking or if it's game 1, and you keep a hand that's light on removal. Yeah, Bogles you need EE. I haven't played that match very much with Jeskai Geist; I've played a bunch with Esper Geist, and it's kinda 50/50 (who is on the play? lol).
Zoo and Affinity is interesting. Doesn't seem that bad if you draw the right half of your deck, else, it can be kinda rough. I think it should be even enough. Burn shouldn't be too bad as you can either race them or use a lot of your removal to stem the tide. Helix helps a lot. Same goes for Snapcaster --> Helix. If it's that bad, there's Spellskite in the sideboard, alongside Batterskull, Kor Firewalker, Dispel, etc. I mean, you can go full-hate by doing something like Circle of Protection, Leyline of Sanctity, Sanctimony, Timely Reinforcements, etc. You have A LOT of options.
People are experimenting with Serum Visions to boost consistency. I'm not too big on the card in this deck, but it doesn't seem like a bad idea. Some really do champion the card though. If I had any, I'd give it a try. Loss of counters? Depends on the build. Some go hard on burn. I think for the most part people are going back to having more counters. I really like them. I run 9. 2x Mana Leak, 3x Remand, 3x Cryptic Command, 1x Spell Snare. Then in the side: 2x Dispel. You can do more counters or less counters. Up to player preference.
Lol...Planeswalkers are not essential at all. If anything, they kinda suck here. Ajani isn't that good anymore, at least IMO. Elspeth is alright, but I'm not amazed. IMO Gideon is an all-star, but again, not ESSENTIAL. Elspeth, Sun's Champion is an interesting one...I haven't tested her to really know. The only ones to consider to me, are Gideon Jura, Elspeth, Knight-Errant, and Elspeth, Sun's Champion. The rest are kinda meh. Jace, Architect of Thought might be ok. And Ajani Vengeant is an old friend...IMO unreliable friend, but he's family here. lol
Modern Decks:
Grixis Twin
Abzan/Junk Midrange
UWR Control/Midrange/Delver
UWR TwinMiss youGBWJunk (still semi-budget; 3 tarmo only)
GWAura Hexproof
GWHatebears
Run multiple
Ghost Quarter, Stony Silence, Sowing Salt, And Negate. GL
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
This is my first time posting here. I am a big fan of UWR Geist, and I'd like to share my own variation of the archetype.
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
3 Restoration Angel
Spells
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Boros Charm
3 Electrolyze
4 Remand
4 Path to Exile
Planeswalkers
2 Chandra, Pyromaster
4 Celestial Colonnade
2 Arid Mesa
2 Scalding Tarn
3 Steam Vents
2 Sacred Foundry
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Flooded Strand
2 Mountain
2 Island
2 Plains
1 Keranos, God of Storms
2 Spellskite
3 Leyline of Sanctity
2 Wear//Tear
2 Counterflux
1 Celestial Purge
2 Cryptic Command
1 Vendillion Clique
1 Batterskull
With this version of UWR Geist, I went away from the traditional finishers of the 4 and 5 drops of WUR Midrange in favor of more burn and aggression while still keeping the core of the field control shell intact. I patterned it off of the Standard burn/ tempo deck I was running before I quit Standard for Modern, but I used the proven cards from the traditional shell to fill the non-flex slots.
There are three main reasons for the choice of Boros Charm and Chandra,Pyromaster in the deck. Firstly, I just plain love these cards. Secondly,I've found a lot of success from using these cards in my local meta, which consists of a lot of aggro, Twin and Burn. By including Chandra and the Boros Charms, I can provide instant speed pressure with the Charm,while at the same time using Chandra's +1 to help the Geist punch through blockers. Finally, I personally feel that using noncreature win conditions makes more removal dead against me. Traditional finishers like Thundermaw Hellkite or Batterskull are vulnerable to things like Terminate or Path to Exile whereas Boros Charm can only be dealt with using disruption or counters, giving it a better chance to deal damage. From videos I have seen of UWR Midrange, the deck is either controlling but very aggressive at heart, or aggressive with enough field control to protect its threats. Personally, I am more of an aggressive player than a controlling player, so I will lean towards the more aggressive cards when deckbuilding.
Chandra is interesting, but I would suggest trying out Elspeth, Knight-Errant in that slot and see if you like it. She also helps geist punch through, by giving it flying and making it a 5/5 which can be absolutely bonkers if you can get it on curve. Also, she does more work on her own, as she can make 1/1's and turn them into flying 4/4s.
With the rise of Kolaghan's Command, in addition to your other points, I am also especially weary of running Batterskull.
It might be a budget thing, but I would also suggest you run a couple Vendilion Clique here, I find the flash 3/1 very strong as an aggressive play.
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
I do have one Clique in Sideboard. I may try and fit it main somehow.
I don't actually play the game anymore (and hence, don't own any of the cards) but if anyone would like to try this build out:
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/rwub-geizur/#c2230345
Some of my thoughts are already in the description but to add a bit more:
1)It is primarily a Geist deck but with Zur added for a late game finisher that provides steel of the godhead synergy to our creatures and additional card advantage.
2) Explanation of Techs:
Deputy of Acquittals: added not only because it is UW for Steel but also because it allows you to reuse or save many of your high-value creatures. I don't have to emphasize what it means to reuse a snapcaster mage do I? Also, it allows you to bring back the dark confidants if they are about to kill you. It all sounds good on paper but I need someone to test it.
Dark Confidant: I figured if Jund can run 10 cards that have a 3 cmc or more (one of which is a Tasigur), we can run a dark confidant. Also, we run more life gain plans than Jund, by running a playset of Lightning Helixes and Steel of the Godhead. This in conjunction with snapcaster mage theoretically gives us enough stability.
Temporal isolation: I think this is a good enchantment that is relevant with or without Zur. If it gets abrupt decayed, well that can cause some unfortunate tempo loss but I am willing to take that risk. You can also cast it on your own Geist, essentially making it a 4/4 hexproof flier if worst comes to worst. It is also a way to save Geist if you get combat tricked. Hopefully, we can take out the abrupt decays with our discard suites.
3) Blue is both the least dominant and the most dominant color in the deck. IT is necessary to cast our win cons (snapcaster mage, zur, and geist) but all the blue cards are at a high CMC. There are many times where you do not even want to cast Geist and Zur at turn 3 and 4 respectively. Snapcaster is more of a 3-4 cmc card than 2 cmc one.
The reason why red is the primary color in this deck is because of the aggro meta. Also, I believe it is the color necessary to support Geist (and obviously Snapcaster). I feel that the standard Zur deck is too fair and doesn't provide a clear field for Geist efficiently. Path to exile is mediocre in a tempo deck, which is why I don't use it here even if I could.
Need help on the mana base and adjusting certain cards - both main and sideboard - around the meta.
http://www.mtgtop8.com/event?e=9945&d=257360
4 Snapcaster Mage
4 Geist of Saint Traft
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
INSTANTS and SORC. (25)
4 Path to Exile
4 Lightning Helix
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Remand
3 Crackling Doom
3 Electrolyze
2 Spell Snare
1 Boros Charm
1 Kolaghan's Command
LANDS (24)
4 Arid Mesa
4 Flooded Strand
3 Celestial Colonnade
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Mountain
1 Island
1 Plains
1 Creeping Tar Pit
1 Blood Crypt
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
1 Scalding Tarn
2 Timely Reinforcements
2 Negate
2 Dispel
2 Wear / Tear
1 Rending Volley
3 Stony Silence
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Thoughtseize
It has access to Crackling Doom which is good against pretty much everything besides Twin, Elves, and CoCo decks. Definitely looks less grindy and more aggressive / proactive.
With regards to Blood Moon and Fulminator resilience, going up to 26 lands would certainly help but the aggressive nature of the black splash goes down to 24 lands. What ideas have you looked at besides Sudden Shock and Squelch?
"TheAller" - do you mind sharing your list ?
thanks
I've never really had a problem resolving Geist against Grixis; usually you can find tempo/time. If they tap out for example. I also find their density of counters to be the same as ours. Perhaps the only difference is whether or not they run Dispel main board. Then again, I'm running a more counter-spell heavy version.
One final thought, if they're being stubborn with holding up mana constantly, I try to feint with a flash creature. That's generally more or less how I get them to react. Vendilion Clique, Snapcaster Mage, and Restoration Angel are great at this. Electrolyze into Snapcaster --> Electrolyze is a good way to get them to react as well. Because no one actually wants to counter Electrolyze. Yet if they let Snap through, then they're eating an extra 2 damage, letting us get a draw, AND letting us keep a 2 power body. Just bait as much as you can until they crack.
The real problem with Grixis are Tasigur and Gurmag Angler. They can come down real early. They're very hard to kill; it's Path or bust -- especially so with Tasigur, as even 1 activation starts to swing card advantage in the other player's direction. They also run them in large numbers and it's very hard to deal with all of them, especially if they come down one right after the other. Your only real defense main board are counters and Path. And the counters aren't always guaranteed to hit either (1-turn-late syndrome). Postboard it gets a little better with Celestial Purge. But that's kind of it (in regards to Tasigur/Angler anyway). Honorable mention goes to Blood Moon for being an annoying card to deal with.
This is what I do for the Tron match-up:
Sideboard in:
Stony Silence x2, Fulminator Mage x2, Negate, Wear//Tear (both copies if you run them; I ran only 1 at the time). I was also trying to tinker with Surgical Extraction, but I was not able to really test and know if it was worth a slot.
I was able to beat Tron today with that set-up above. It was still a rough match-up, and I wouldn't call us a favorite -- far from it.
Also main boarding Ghost Quarter or Tectonic Edge helps. Ghost Quarter is more efficient vs. Tron though. Other interesting things you can do is run Molten Rain and Sowing Salt. Or like, Aven Mindcensor as well, though that card feels too slow and inefficient. Shadow of Doubt is another card you can run to stop searches. A lot of these suggestions are a bit overkill; you probably can't run them all. And even if you could, it doesn't really guarantee victory, as what kills Tron is some form of fast clock. Monastery Mentor is kinda...nice against them too actually. Kinda. More of the fact that you don't have to commit much to the board meanwhile being able to have it grow and get out of hand. Thing is...it might beat blue variant trons. But probably still too slow vs. GR Tron.
Neat list. Looks like a lot of fun toys to play with; a full set of Visions, 2x Anticipates, and 2x Shadow of Doubts! Cantrip for days. Haha, that's not even including the 4x Remands.
I don't think it should be THAT big of a problem in the regular Jeskai lists, and you can always fetch basics. Though, the combination of Molten Rain and Fulminator makes the card hard to deal with; however, since you're running 4 colors, Squelch and Sudden Shock seem like fine choices. Sudden Shock especially. I'm iffy on Squelch, but it doesn't seem that bad. Does Trickbind fit the bill here?
Can't they still insta-activate Fulminator Mage, which would make Sudden Shock miss its chance to shunt the play? Or do most people not immediately activate Fulminator Mage? I don't play against the card enough to really know.
Yeah, that was one thing I was concerned with in regards to Sudden Shock vs. Fulminator Mage. Though I bet it's a very satisfying way to hit the card the first time around. The local players will probably never let that happen again though. lol
Not gonna lie. Looks pretty cool/fun. I kinda have a soft spot for Zur. The problem though, is that I also have a sour spot for Zur as well; I've played Esper Zur for a good while, and I found that I only really liked it if/when I was playing Deathrite Shaman, which is now banned. The thing with any deck with Zur in it is that the cards for Zur and Zur himself end up being pretty damn mediocre. And they end up just wasting card slots. More Terminates seem just flat-out better than some of the stuff you're running. In general, Zur doesn't really win you the game; from my testing, usually if Zur sticks and swings, it's because we got a solid foothold of the game and board state. SOMETIMES, he literally does win the game -- I will admit that; it's happened a number of times in the past. But most of the time, the card is a dead card.
Deputy of Acquittals is a card that sounds like fun if you can get it to work; however, it's just a bear at the end of the day. Idk, I don't like it much.
I will say this though, I dislike automatically dismissing ideas without actually testing it, so who knows? Maybe there's something here to work with. Unfortunately Idk if I have much time to tinker with it.
If this is the case with Fulminator Mage being so bad for the black splash version of the deck, is there a case for NOT running any black and going more towards the "traditional" build? What's your thoughts on it?
I'm sticking to straight UWR for now; there's still some more play value and tinkering space that I haven't done yet. Nothing too crazy, I just wanna explore them before switching it up. Also might do Jeskai Geist Twin for a couple FNM's or so too.
Not against Sudden Shock. Triggered abilities still work, but casting spells and (non mana) activated abilities can't be done with a card that has Split Second on the stack.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW
Modern : RGTitanshiftGR / UGWKnightfallWGU
^Yeah, this is what I meant. That's the reason I asked is because I don't typically play against the card enough to know what the habits/tendencies people have when they cast it (Fulminator Mage).
Once they know you run it, they'll probably just immediately sac every time. Which I suppose might not be the worst thing, as that means they can't get "more" out of it, like attacking or blocking.
I think the better solution to Fulminator Mage is simply 25-26 lands and 2-3 Serum Visions. Fulminator doesn't do that much when you're not short on lands.
C Kozilek C
GB Gitrog GB
G Titania G
WU Brago WU
GB MerenGB
Duel Commander Decks
UR Keranos UR
BRG Jund BRG
GR Tron GR GW Tron GW
C Eldrazi Tron (SB) C
BG Lantern Control BG
UW Control (SB) UW