I've found Cryptic Command to be strong in topdeck wars, tapping for getting Geist damage through, and plain strong permission/card advantage in general. Also cycling is nice. But it's hard on the manabase, I'd run at least 3 basic islands in the list. I'd run 2 Cryptics max, any more is clunky and too control-y. I'm not even convinced 2 is the right number in my list, might go down to 1 or 0. But so far it's been okay.
For 5 drops, Thundermaw Hellkite is strong in an Abzan heavy meta as is Batterskull. I've never tested Baneslayer Angel, but I'd imagine it's too vulnerable. No impact when it hits the board like Thundermaw and no persistency like Batterskull. But it could be really strong in the right meta. Just too vulnerable and slow for my tastes. Keranos, God of Storms can be good in the right situation, especially if you're maintaining tempo. Unfortunately, when you're behind, you generally stay behind which is why I don't like it at 5cmc.
Batterskull > Thundermaw > Baneslayer >= Keranos in my opinion, but it'll vary per list. Keranos is probably better in a more control-oriented list. So in the end it just sort of depends on what you're trying to do.
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I've found Cryptic Command to be strong in topdeck wars, tapping for getting Geist damage through, and plain strong permission/card advantage in general. Also cycling is nice. But it's hard on the manabase, I'd run at least 3 basic islands in the list. I'd run 2 Cryptics max, any more is clunky and too control-y. I'm not even convinced 2 is the right number in my list, might go down to 1 or 0. But so far it's been okay.
For 5 drops, Thundermaw Hellkite is strong in an Abzan heavy meta as is Batterskull. I've never tested Baneslayer Angel, but I'd imagine it's too vulnerable. No impact when it hits the board like Thundermaw and no persistency like Batterskull. But it could be really strong in the right meta. Just too vulnerable and slow for my tastes. Keranos, God of Storms can be good in the right situation, especially if you're maintaining tempo. Unfortunately, when you're behind, you generally stay behind which is why I don't like it at 5cmc.
Batterskull > Thundermaw > Baneslayer >= Keranos in my opinion, but it'll vary per list. Keranos is probably better in a more control-oriented list. So in the end it just sort of depends on what you're trying to do.
Why Thundermaw over Stormbreath Dragon? Stormbreath is stronger in grindy late-games due to Monstrous, can block Siege Rhino forever if necessary, and is immune to Path to Exile.
I think the major strength of this deck is how little it cares about lightning bolt. Like, yeah, Snapcaster dies to bolt, and so does clique, but those cards both give incredible value just for hitting the field, and you don't really care all too much when they die. All your real threats don't care even a little bit about bolt.
Even as the meta shifts to favor Abzan decks, bolt is still the most played card in the format, and I still think you want to be blanking that card if at all possible. Even though pyromancer blanks Liliana, I don't think you want to take the deck in that direction because you're sacrificing a major strength of the deck.
Furthermore, pyromancer isn't even that great against Abzan since rhino tramples and abrupt decay is a 4-of in every list. It's good against goyf decks, but that's about as far as it goes.
I think if you're so worried about Liliana that you're willing to cut geist, you should consider playing spell pierces main instead. It's a much more versatile card and it even helps your Burn matchup substantially.
Another option is Brimaz, but Brimaz has a distinctly poor matchup against abrupt decay so I would steer clear.
For the time being, my creature base is gonna look something like:
Leaks and Snares are bad in this deck. Remand and Cryptic are fine because in the worst case they just cycle.
This makes you sound like you don't play the deck very much. Cryptic is a fringe card in this deck. Mana Leak and Spell Snar are both pretty good cards.
Sadly with college I haven't had much time to play modern but I have always kept up to date with it.
Now I must say, I feel like UWr needs to try a whole new direction if it wants to consistently see top 8 again. The one thing I have noticed about UWR compared to a couple of these T1 deck is that this arcitype has change very very little to almost not at all over the past year. Even now with the banning changing the format the core of every UWr deck is the same as it has always been.
Like I said, I don't get to play much but has anyone considered or tried the following?
Mirran Crusader - Very helpful against these BGW builds, other then Lilia they 'can't' deal with it. Stormbreath Dragon - T4, CMC 5, and pro white Dodge a hell of a lot of removal in the format. Soldier of the Pantheon - there seems to be a lot of multicolor out there?
I swear by cards like Geist of Saint Traft but alone he just can't get there, he needs protection. An how long can he hold up against cards like Siege Rhino?
Personally I feel like Vendillion Clique has been lack luster. She's helpful again combo but I hate seeing her against everyone else.
Thundermaw Hellfire is great but I feel the pro white can go farther.
Just some thoughts. When I get back in I'm going to try this in a new light. Maybe Monastery Mentor can be our saving grace?
Really loving this Jeskai (splash Black) midrange deck I've been testing for a PPTQ this weekend. I'll present the list for any who want to try and go this route but the deck is fun, full of threats and very consistent. I go light on counterspells as we can present threats that need to be dealt with and can flood the board with creatures while also removing our opponent's.
This deck is an evolutionary strategy which is consistent with competing with the reemergence of Abzan and the popularity of aggressive deck like Burn and Affinity. The deck also has a strong match-up after sideboard with Scapeshift and Tron. I found in the testing I've done so far that this deck can out creature a lot of the midrange decks and has a lot more game late as the creatures promote so much value whether we're talking about "free" 3/3 golems, 4 spirits, Snapcaster "free" spells, Restos for "value", Tasigur as a big road block with value as a late game card, Hellkite dominating tokens, Cliques, etc in the air and of course Colonades coming in when needed.
I really feel comfortable with this sideboard and I think it can be used in creative ways and that the cards overlap into many match-ups.
Anyway hopefully I can see a nice result this weekend with this build. Powerful, consistent and fun!
Really loving this Jeskai (splash Black) midrange deck I've been testing for a PPTQ this weekend. I'll present the list for any who want to try and go this route but the deck is fun, full of threats and very consistent. I go light on counterspells as we can present threats that need to be dealt with and can flood the board with creatures while also removing our opponent's.
This deck is an evolutionary strategy which is consistent with competing with the reemergence of Abzan and the popularity of aggressive deck like Burn and Affinity. The deck also has a strong match-up after sideboard with Scapeshift and Tron. I found in the testing I've done so far that this deck can out creature a lot of the midrange decks and has a lot more game late as the creatures promote so much value whether we're talking about "free" 3/3 golems, 4 spirits, Snapcaster "free" spells, Restos for "value", Tasigur as a big road block with value as a late game card, Hellkite dominating tokens, Cliques, etc in the air and of course Colonades coming in when needed.
I really feel comfortable with this sideboard and I think it can be used in creative ways and that the cards overlap into many match-ups.
Anyway hopefully I can see a nice result this weekend with this build. Powerful, consistent and fun!
I don't see why this list is better than the Geist lists. Its threats are all slower, you can't really control the game since you only have 3 Remands as permission and you have 3 cards in your 60 that kill Siege Rhino. The deck looks okay, but I doubt its effectiveness. How do you not lose to Twin for instance?
The deck has 4 Remands, try reading more carefully before criticizing. The real question is how does Twin beat us? I have 7 cards main that stop or slow down Deciever early 4 Remand, 3 Path and tons of cards to deal with Pestermite. I've not lost a match to twin yet, something like 8-0.
Without Celestial Purge and only one basic island, Blood Moon matchups look awful.
I've seen very few lists with more than 1 basic island. There is only 1 UU cards in this list. In fact blue is a really light color in this deck. I've played over 200 games with this on Magic online and never once lost to resolved Blood Moon (though I've won through Blood Moon on numerous occasions.
It would be great if we had people who actually read lists and tried to be constructive to help each other in here. Really sad that we only have people criticizing decks in here. Anywaay the deck is quite good against Twin and Abzan.
Without Celestial Purge and only one basic island, Blood Moon matchups look awful.
I've seen very few lists with more than 1 basic island. There is only 1 UU cards in this list. In fact blue is a really light color in this deck. I've played over 200 games with this on Magic online and never once lost to resolved Blood Moon (though I've won through Blood Moon on numerous occasions.
It would be great if we had people who actually read lists and tried to be constructive to help each other in here. Really sad that we only have people criticizing decks in here. Anywaay the deck is quite good against Twin and Abzan.
Looks interesting. I'll give it a try next I get a chance. Is this build good in a broad meta? Also, since you're running the black splash, Crackling Doom was probably also one of the things to consider. What do you think of Crackling Doom/did you ever feel like you'd need it?
Reprints the one card that people point to when saying that art objectifies women.
Well done Wizards.
Liliana does not objectify women in any way at all. We have gotten to a point in our society that every single picture of a women must be objectifying a women in some negative way......blah blah blah.. That is not the case. (((Sarcasm)))Picture of a girl drinking a milk shake, must be sex related and putting women down, picture of girl sitting on a beach, picture of a girl driving a car, picture of a girl on the moon at a new space station.)))
You have a picture of an attractive strong power women who girls dress up as for anime conventions. What more do you want? The picture is fine, happy to see a reprint. Sick of of seeing people claim that everything in existence must be putting women down. Then all I have to do is replace the word "women" with anything else to get the same mentality; fish, cats, arabs, blacks, jews, men, environment, whites, chinese, old people, etc. It doesn't matter what word I put in. Stop sucking life out of everything man. That artwork of her is awesome. Stop putting stuff down man. Just stop. If the picture was really as negative as you claim she would totally nude, in a kitchen, making sandwiches and giving blow jobs. Her abilities would be horrible as well. +1 do nothing -2 do nothing -6 do nothing. Instead liliana of the veil is an amazing planeswalker comparable to jace, the mind sculpter with great art to appreciate.
My suggestion listen to some comedy radio for a while, pandora is free, youtube is free there is something out there for you. ***** go make fun of somebody. The whole world is so serious and campaigning for some cause, or someones rights, everything is a hate crime, racist, sexist. blah blah blah.
"O no mcdonalds must be slandering a hate crime against skinny people every time they make a big mac." hahaha jeeze You're just someone perpetuating another groups negative perspective that they've made you believe is correct. Look at the picture for a hour and tell me what's wrong with it? I don't see anything.
I have heard vague rumors of a moustache-dispensing vending machine in a distant laundromat, across the street from a tattoo parlor. However, this information is shaky, and time is of the essence.
Without Celestial Purge and only one basic island, Blood Moon matchups look awful.
I've seen very few lists with more than 1 basic island. There is only 1 UU cards in this list. In fact blue is a really light color in this deck. I've played over 200 games with this on Magic online and never once lost to resolved Blood Moon (though I've won through Blood Moon on numerous occasions.
It would be great if we had people who actually read lists and tried to be constructive to help each other in here. Really sad that we only have people criticizing decks in here. Anywaay the deck is quite good against Twin and Abzan.
Looks interesting. I'll give it a try next I get a chance. Is this build good in a broad meta? Also, since you're running the black splash, Crackling Doom was probably also one of the things to consider. What do you think of Crackling Doom/did you ever feel like you'd need it?
Crackling Doom is a possibility. My concern was keeping Black relegated to a few cards. The Lingering Souls can operate without black it's only Tasigur who really requires black. This deck is surprisingly strong agains Abzan and Twin with obvious good match-ups with Burn and Affinity.
You can easily out value, out threat the Abzan decks with this list. Liliana is a joke against our list. Twin is very hard to resolve. The aggressive decks have trouble with our spell package.
You can try out Doom but I haven't needed any more removal. It's usually this deck beating down on the other deck.
Basically -1 Cryptic command as they underperformed during the previosu PPTQ. Added Ajani to the mainboard as it overperformed. Added a Sphinx's Revelation in the sideboard as a replacement for the matchups where cryptic is great (rock decks, twin, uwr control), mostly as a test because GreatNate likes it. After losing against affinity's etched champion two games in the PTQ it's quite possible this should be a supreme verdict or wrath of god though.
I'll be playing two local tournaments this week, and a few more rounds of PPTQs the following week.
Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Basically -1 Cryptic command as they underperformed during the previosu PPTQ. Added Ajani to the mainboard as it overperformed. Added a Sphinx's Revelation in the sideboard as a replacement for the matchups where cryptic is great (rock decks, twin, uwr control), mostly as a test because GreatNate likes it. After losing against affinity's etched champion two games in the PTQ it's quite possible this should be a supreme verdict or wrath of god though.
I'll be playing two local tournaments this week, and a few more rounds of PPTQs the following week.
Me and you have nearly identical lists. I run the same creature base, but run a full set of Remands instead of a 2-2 split with Cryptic and run the 4th Helix over Ajani Vengeant. How has Vengeant done for you? I'm very interested in swapping out the 4th Helix for it but I'm afraid the lack of instant speed as well as being 4 mana might not be worth it. Is the +1 and potential re-usability of the -2 worth it? How do you fair against Burn or Aggro without the 4th Helix?
Our sideboards are nearly identical as well except I choose 2 Stony Silence over the Rev and 2nd Relic because we need something to combat tron and affinity.
How has the list worked for you? What worked and what didn't?
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Timely reinforcements was brilliant for me against burn. It's also great versus Affinity. I would play an extra EE if bogles is big.
I reckon supreme verdict is sideboard material in this deck, as it won't help you if you're beating down with geists/restos.
If you want spell snares, it's not bad to cut a mana leak, a remand and/or a 5drop for 1 or 2
@Paradox
I have a small write-up of my previous tournament a few pages back. It's not much, but hey...
Ajani from the sideboard was amazing for me against a GB rock deck, and against affinity. The three times I cast it in the post-sideboard games it completely took over and won me the game. Burn is also popular now, and it's very good against them. I swapped Ajani for a Cryptic as Cryptic kinda underperformed for me. I don't think you need the 4rd helix per se, it's quite bad against junk/jund type decks, and you have quite a lot of removal already with 4 paths/4 bolt/2electrolyze!
I was thinking of changing the rev slot to a stony silence or wrath effect for the affinity matchup. I changed stony silence to timely before, since it's also good against affinity and burn is so prevalent. I don't foresee myself taking relics out of the sideboard though, as they have been amazing for me in a lot of matchups and I side them in a lot. Vjeran Horvat (well-known UWR player), also frequently said that relic from the side was amazing!
I've been playing lists similar to this for quite some time, and it's performing quite well! You have a decent matchup against most decks, no real stinkers in there. Then again also no real easy matchups :). The sideboard plan is the most integral part of the whole deck. You can't just add some hate cards to the shell and expect to win, a lot of matchups stand or break depending on how many answers you have to reply to their gameplan. This is especially true because you are basically a worse aggro deck than affinity/zoo, you are a worse control deck than UWR, and you are a worse midrange deck than junk. Finding the proper role in each matchup, or even each turn, is really tricky!
If you play basically the same sideboard, can you put your sideboard plan against mine and suggest changes for me based on your experience?
Timely reinforcements was brilliant for me against burn. It's also great versus Affinity. I would play an extra EE if bogles is big.
I reckon supreme verdict is sideboard material in this deck, as it won't help you if you're beating down with geists/restos.
If you want spell snares, it's not bad to cut a mana leak, a remand and/or a 5drop for 1 or 2
@Paradox
I have a small write-up of my previous tournament a few pages back. It's not much, but hey...
Ajani from the sideboard was amazing for me against a GB rock deck, and against affinity. The three times I cast it in the post-sideboard games it completely took over and won me the game. Burn is also popular now, and it's very good against them. I swapped Ajani for a Cryptic as Cryptic kinda underperformed for me. I don't think you need the 4rd helix per se, it's quite bad against junk/jund type decks, and you have quite a lot of removal already with 4 paths/4 bolt/2electrolyze!
I was thinking of changing the rev slot to a stony silence or wrath effect for the affinity matchup. I changed stony silence to timely before, since it's also good against affinity and burn is so prevalent. I don't foresee myself taking relics out of the sideboard though, as they have been amazing for me in a lot of matchups and I side them in a lot. Vjeran Horvat (well-known UWR player), also frequently said that relic from the side was amazing!
I've been playing lists similar to this for quite some time, and it's performing quite well! You have a decent matchup against most decks, no real stinkers in there. Then again also no real easy matchups :). The sideboard plan is the most integral part of the whole deck. You can't just add some hate cards to the shell and expect to win, a lot of matchups stand or break depending on how many answers you have to reply to their gameplan. This is especially true because you are basically a worse aggro deck than affinity/zoo, you are a worse control deck than UWR, and you are a worse midrange deck than junk. Finding the proper role in each matchup, or even each turn, is really tricky!
If you play basically the same sideboard, can you put your sideboard plan against mine and suggest changes for me based on your experience?
I think im going to try
Mainbase:
-1 mana leak
-1 supreme veredict
+2 spell snare
Sideboard
-Anger of gods
+1 supreme veredict
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Modern: RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries Legacy:BRx Renimator Playing right now:Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Timely reinforcements was brilliant for me against burn. It's also great versus Affinity. I would play an extra EE if bogles is big.
I reckon supreme verdict is sideboard material in this deck, as it won't help you if you're beating down with geists/restos.
If you want spell snares, it's not bad to cut a mana leak, a remand and/or a 5drop for 1 or 2
@Paradox
I have a small write-up of my previous tournament a few pages back. It's not much, but hey...
Ajani from the sideboard was amazing for me against a GB rock deck, and against affinity. The three times I cast it in the post-sideboard games it completely took over and won me the game. Burn is also popular now, and it's very good against them. I swapped Ajani for a Cryptic as Cryptic kinda underperformed for me. I don't think you need the 4rd helix per se, it's quite bad against junk/jund type decks, and you have quite a lot of removal already with 4 paths/4 bolt/2electrolyze!
I was thinking of changing the rev slot to a stony silence or wrath effect for the affinity matchup. I changed stony silence to timely before, since it's also good against affinity and burn is so prevalent. I don't foresee myself taking relics out of the sideboard though, as they have been amazing for me in a lot of matchups and I side them in a lot. Vjeran Horvat (well-known UWR player), also frequently said that relic from the side was amazing!
I've been playing lists similar to this for quite some time, and it's performing quite well! You have a decent matchup against most decks, no real stinkers in there. Then again also no real easy matchups :). The sideboard plan is the most integral part of the whole deck. You can't just add some hate cards to the shell and expect to win, a lot of matchups stand or break depending on how many answers you have to reply to their gameplan. This is especially true because you are basically a worse aggro deck than affinity/zoo, you are a worse control deck than UWR, and you are a worse midrange deck than junk. Finding the proper role in each matchup, or even each turn, is really tricky!
If you play basically the same sideboard, can you put your sideboard plan against mine and suggest changes for me based on your experience?
Fair enough, I'll go ahead and test the Ajani for the Helix and see how it works.
Batterskull is self explanatory. Stony Silence for affinity. 2 Wear // Tear for their versatility, 1
Celestial Purge for blood moon/Abzan. 2 Negates for control/combo, as is Counterflux. Wrath of God for Zoo and Affinity, a relic for graveyard hate, Reinforcements for burn/Aggro/affinity and engineered explosives for affinity/Aggro, boggles, and especially BW tokens. X = 2 or x = 0 feel equally good against them.
Things I've thought about: Kor Firewalker or Timely Reinforcements? Maybe swap 1 Negate for 1 dispel? Any room for a Sowing Salt for Tron? And on that topic, is Sowing Salt even worth it? Open to other suggestions.
EDIT: didn't see you wanted suggestions for change. Honestly I don't have specific criticisms. Only things I'm not convinced for you are the Rev and 2nd relic, but if they work for you I can't say otherwise. I tried both and I never found the relics highly relevant. Rev usually got taken away by discard vs Abzan although the games I popped it off if felt great. It just feels too narrow of a SB card to really carry its own weight.
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Nice to see we are converging to the same ideas. You might be right about the rev, ill have a think about changing it (havent tested it yet).
Vjeren Horvat also played relic in gp Prague and was very satisfied with it. It's great to side in not only versus goyf/ooze/tasigur, but any deck with snapcaster, or gy based decks like storm, dredge or living end. The card is not mind blowing like a Bskull or a stony silence, but it gives a very slight and free advantage. It's basically free for one mana, and you can cycle it whenever you want. Having a 58 card deck means you'll be drawing your powerfull spells more often, this really matters. Against gy combo decks this also increases your win percentage by a lot!
I don't really like sowing salt atm. Tron is not that widely played and we already have threats + answers against their deck. Playing an extra counterspell is also very good against tron, and far more versatile.
timely is good, dispel is good. Kor firewalker is a bit narrow imo, timely is also good against zoo and affinity :).
@Renowtac: I was criticizing your list constructively. We are plenty of people here that have played the deck, and we are just expresing ideas and opinions about your list.
If you truly believe that your list is that good I don't get why are you posting here instead of winning GPs.
What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post at all. The first sentence mentions that this deck will be played at a PPTQ. That's the largest event I have access to. Are you aware of any other Modern GP happening this weekend???? I'm not either. Why are you not out winning a GP this weekend?? See I can ask stupid questions too!
Hey guys,
I've been following this thread for a while but haven't posted yet. Thought I'd run my list by you guys and see what you think. I'm new to modern but have found that I'm at least 50-50 in most matchups with this deck, though it hasn't been particularly dominant. Still learning the format, though. I haven't played my updated version below yet.
Even though the black splash for Lingering Souls is a little greedy, it has been absolutely amazing for me, especially with Liliana around.
One of the changes I'd like to make would be to swap out Keranos for Batterskull. In general, Keranos and Sphinx's Rev were both a little too slow for me.
I'm unsure of my counterspell suite--I like to have a hard counter for Liliana, combo, and Blood Moon maindeck, but Mana Leak is a terrible topdeck. Blood Moon and Liliana in general just wreck me. I like the 2 Spell Snares, but other lists seem lighter on those. I'm not sure of how to feel about Electrolyze either. I like to have it for the cycling effect given the lack of overall card draw post DTT, but it isn't always great against Abzan, Twin, or Bloom Titan, which seem like they're going to be more popular. If I could get a couple Cryptic Commands, I think I'd take out 1x Mana Leak and 1x Electrolyze for 2x Cryptic Commands.
Also considering swapping the Kor Firewalkers for either 2x Kitchen Finks or 2x Timely Reinforcements. I don't think Timely Reinforcements works that well with Lingering Souls, though. Kitchen Finks seems like it could be solid. I could try finding room for another Resto if that's the direction I go.
@Renowtac: I was criticizing your list constructively. We are plenty of people here that have played the deck, and we are just expresing ideas and opinions about your list.
If you truly believe that your list is that good I don't get why are you posting here instead of winning GPs.
What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post at all. The first sentence mentions that this deck will be played at a PPTQ. That's the largest event I have access to. Are you aware of any other Modern GP happening this weekend???? I'm not either. Why are you not out winning a GP this weekend?? See I can ask stupid questions too!
GP Vancouver this weekend is modern constructed.
I'm not winning GPs becaue I don't have the skill nor the knowledge of the deck, that is why I post and read here.
I live in Taiwan. GP Vancouver isn't an option for me. GP Singapore in a few months would be my closest high level option, HENCE why I'm playing in a PPTQ this weekend. If you don't have the skills or knowledge of the deck you should be asking more questions and not trying to sound like an authority on the deck. Some of us here have spent considerable time and effort into refining a list. I only posted this one as it's been an upgrade over previous versions and fights the meta better than the other Jeskai decks floating around. If it's not your style of deck than that's fine but you can't say it's bad just because you don't like it. You haven't tested it.
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For 5 drops, Thundermaw Hellkite is strong in an Abzan heavy meta as is Batterskull. I've never tested Baneslayer Angel, but I'd imagine it's too vulnerable. No impact when it hits the board like Thundermaw and no persistency like Batterskull. But it could be really strong in the right meta. Just too vulnerable and slow for my tastes. Keranos, God of Storms can be good in the right situation, especially if you're maintaining tempo. Unfortunately, when you're behind, you generally stay behind which is why I don't like it at 5cmc.
Batterskull > Thundermaw > Baneslayer >= Keranos in my opinion, but it'll vary per list. Keranos is probably better in a more control-oriented list. So in the end it just sort of depends on what you're trying to do.
Why Thundermaw over Stormbreath Dragon? Stormbreath is stronger in grindy late-games due to Monstrous, can block Siege Rhino forever if necessary, and is immune to Path to Exile.
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Even as the meta shifts to favor Abzan decks, bolt is still the most played card in the format, and I still think you want to be blanking that card if at all possible. Even though pyromancer blanks Liliana, I don't think you want to take the deck in that direction because you're sacrificing a major strength of the deck.
Furthermore, pyromancer isn't even that great against Abzan since rhino tramples and abrupt decay is a 4-of in every list. It's good against goyf decks, but that's about as far as it goes.
I think if you're so worried about Liliana that you're willing to cut geist, you should consider playing spell pierces main instead. It's a much more versatile card and it even helps your Burn matchup substantially.
Another option is Brimaz, but Brimaz has a distinctly poor matchup against abrupt decay so I would steer clear.
For the time being, my creature base is gonna look something like:
3 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
1 Stormbreath Dragon
4 Celestial Colonnade
This makes you sound like you don't play the deck very much. Cryptic is a fringe card in this deck. Mana Leak and Spell Snar are both pretty good cards.
Now I must say, I feel like UWr needs to try a whole new direction if it wants to consistently see top 8 again. The one thing I have noticed about UWR compared to a couple of these T1 deck is that this arcitype has change very very little to almost not at all over the past year. Even now with the banning changing the format the core of every UWr deck is the same as it has always been.
Like I said, I don't get to play much but has anyone considered or tried the following?
Mirran Crusader - Very helpful against these BGW builds, other then Lilia they 'can't' deal with it.
Stormbreath Dragon - T4, CMC 5, and pro white Dodge a hell of a lot of removal in the format.
Soldier of the Pantheon - there seems to be a lot of multicolor out there?
I swear by cards like Geist of Saint Traft but alone he just can't get there, he needs protection. An how long can he hold up against cards like Siege Rhino?
Personally I feel like Vendillion Clique has been lack luster. She's helpful again combo but I hate seeing her against everyone else.
Thundermaw Hellfire is great but I feel the pro white can go farther.
Just some thoughts. When I get back in I'm going to try this in a new light. Maybe Monastery Mentor can be our saving grace?
4 Snapcaster Mage
3 Blade Splicer
2 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Remand
3 Lingering Souls
3 Lightning Helix
3 Path to Exile
3 Electrolyze
1 Sphinx's Revelation
4 Flooded Strand
3 Arid Mesa
4 Celestial Colonade
2 Steam Vents
2 Sacred Foundry
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Godless Shrine
1 Hallowed Fountain
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Blood Crypt
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Negate
2 Wear/Tear
2 Wrath of God
2 Slaughter Games
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Ajani Vengeant
1 Vendilion Clique
1 Izzet Staticaster
This deck is an evolutionary strategy which is consistent with competing with the reemergence of Abzan and the popularity of aggressive deck like Burn and Affinity. The deck also has a strong match-up after sideboard with Scapeshift and Tron. I found in the testing I've done so far that this deck can out creature a lot of the midrange decks and has a lot more game late as the creatures promote so much value whether we're talking about "free" 3/3 golems, 4 spirits, Snapcaster "free" spells, Restos for "value", Tasigur as a big road block with value as a late game card, Hellkite dominating tokens, Cliques, etc in the air and of course Colonades coming in when needed.
I really feel comfortable with this sideboard and I think it can be used in creative ways and that the cards overlap into many match-ups.
Anyway hopefully I can see a nice result this weekend with this build. Powerful, consistent and fun!
The deck has 4 Remands, try reading more carefully before criticizing. The real question is how does Twin beat us? I have 7 cards main that stop or slow down Deciever early 4 Remand, 3 Path and tons of cards to deal with Pestermite. I've not lost a match to twin yet, something like 8-0.
I've seen very few lists with more than 1 basic island. There is only 1 UU cards in this list. In fact blue is a really light color in this deck. I've played over 200 games with this on Magic online and never once lost to resolved Blood Moon (though I've won through Blood Moon on numerous occasions.
It would be great if we had people who actually read lists and tried to be constructive to help each other in here. Really sad that we only have people criticizing decks in here. Anywaay the deck is quite good against Twin and Abzan.
Looks interesting. I'll give it a try next I get a chance. Is this build good in a broad meta? Also, since you're running the black splash, Crackling Doom was probably also one of the things to consider. What do you think of Crackling Doom/did you ever feel like you'd need it?
Crackling Doom is a possibility. My concern was keeping Black relegated to a few cards. The Lingering Souls can operate without black it's only Tasigur who really requires black. This deck is surprisingly strong agains Abzan and Twin with obvious good match-ups with Burn and Affinity.
You can easily out value, out threat the Abzan decks with this list. Liliana is a joke against our list. Twin is very hard to resolve. The aggressive decks have trouble with our spell package.
You can try out Doom but I haven't needed any more removal. It's usually this deck beating down on the other deck.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1eD10fgv9dt7QmBYKnDgFymaTAScarXmg8PgYYwDHZIM/edit#gid=0
Basically -1 Cryptic command as they underperformed during the previosu PPTQ. Added Ajani to the mainboard as it overperformed. Added a Sphinx's Revelation in the sideboard as a replacement for the matchups where cryptic is great (rock decks, twin, uwr control), mostly as a test because GreatNate likes it. After losing against affinity's etched champion two games in the PTQ it's quite possible this should be a supreme verdict or wrath of god though.
I'll be playing two local tournaments this week, and a few more rounds of PPTQs the following week.
-Burn
-GW Auras
-Stompy
-Infect
-Affinity
-Zoo
-Podless
-Scapeshift/WUR Control
-Random deck ...
Thats my list, what should i run on Main and SB?
i want to run 2x Spell snare on mainboard but i really feel i need baneslayer, batterskull and suprem veredict are meta calls/gaining life
3 Restoration Angel
4 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
1 Baneslayer Angel
1 Batterskull
2 Electrolyze
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
4 Path to Exile
3 Remand
3 Mana Leak
1 Suprem Veredict
4 Celestial Colonade
1 Eiganjo Castle
4 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Hallowed Fountain
3 Steam Vents
1 Sacred Foundry
1 Sulfur Falls
1 Plains
1 Island
1 Mountain
2 Tectonic Edge
1 Wrath of God
1 Gideon Jura
1 Combust
1 Engineered Explosives
1 Anger of the gods
1 Counterflux
2 Kor Firewalker
2 Celestial Purge
2 Dispel
2 Wear // Tear
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Me and you have nearly identical lists. I run the same creature base, but run a full set of Remands instead of a 2-2 split with Cryptic and run the 4th Helix over Ajani Vengeant. How has Vengeant done for you? I'm very interested in swapping out the 4th Helix for it but I'm afraid the lack of instant speed as well as being 4 mana might not be worth it. Is the +1 and potential re-usability of the -2 worth it? How do you fair against Burn or Aggro without the 4th Helix?
Our sideboards are nearly identical as well except I choose 2 Stony Silence over the Rev and 2nd Relic because we need something to combat tron and affinity.
How has the list worked for you? What worked and what didn't?
I reckon supreme verdict is sideboard material in this deck, as it won't help you if you're beating down with geists/restos.
If you want spell snares, it's not bad to cut a mana leak, a remand and/or a 5drop for 1 or 2
@Paradox
I have a small write-up of my previous tournament a few pages back. It's not much, but hey...
Ajani from the sideboard was amazing for me against a GB rock deck, and against affinity. The three times I cast it in the post-sideboard games it completely took over and won me the game. Burn is also popular now, and it's very good against them. I swapped Ajani for a Cryptic as Cryptic kinda underperformed for me. I don't think you need the 4rd helix per se, it's quite bad against junk/jund type decks, and you have quite a lot of removal already with 4 paths/4 bolt/2electrolyze!
I was thinking of changing the rev slot to a stony silence or wrath effect for the affinity matchup. I changed stony silence to timely before, since it's also good against affinity and burn is so prevalent. I don't foresee myself taking relics out of the sideboard though, as they have been amazing for me in a lot of matchups and I side them in a lot. Vjeran Horvat (well-known UWR player), also frequently said that relic from the side was amazing!
I've been playing lists similar to this for quite some time, and it's performing quite well! You have a decent matchup against most decks, no real stinkers in there. Then again also no real easy matchups :). The sideboard plan is the most integral part of the whole deck. You can't just add some hate cards to the shell and expect to win, a lot of matchups stand or break depending on how many answers you have to reply to their gameplan. This is especially true because you are basically a worse aggro deck than affinity/zoo, you are a worse control deck than UWR, and you are a worse midrange deck than junk. Finding the proper role in each matchup, or even each turn, is really tricky!
If you play basically the same sideboard, can you put your sideboard plan against mine and suggest changes for me based on your experience?
I think im going to try
Mainbase:
-1 mana leak
-1 supreme veredict
+2 spell snare
Sideboard
-Anger of gods
+1 supreme veredict
RW R/W Burn WB B/W TokensXU MonuU Tron // UWX UW Tron
R GoblinsW Soul SistersRWG Small ZooWUR WUR Geist/Control/Kiki-Resto Combo/NahiriUR Splinter Twin (90% Japanese)/ Grixis TwinRUB UR Delver / Grixis Delver UR Blue MoonBWU Ad NauseamWDeath and TaxesRUB Grixis ControlUMerfolksX Affinity RGB Living End UR Storm/PiF Combo RGX R/G TRON GWU Bant Eldrazi BW Eldrazi and Taxes RUBGoryos Vengeance UB Faeries
Legacy:BRx Renimator
Playing right now: Standard: Jeskai Control Modern; GoryosVengeance/UBFaeries/Affinity Legacy: BRx Reanimator Pauper: UR Drake (banned) Commander: Merieke Ri Berit Esper
Fair enough, I'll go ahead and test the Ajani for the Helix and see how it works.
1 Batterskull
2 Stony Silence
2 Wear // Tear
1 Celestial Purge
2 Negate
1 Wrath of God
1 Relic of Progenitus
2 Timely Reinforcements
1 Counterflux
2 Engineered Explosives
Batterskull is self explanatory. Stony Silence for affinity. 2 Wear // Tear for their versatility, 1
Celestial Purge for blood moon/Abzan. 2 Negates for control/combo, as is Counterflux. Wrath of God for Zoo and Affinity, a relic for graveyard hate, Reinforcements for burn/Aggro/affinity and engineered explosives for affinity/Aggro, boggles, and especially BW tokens. X = 2 or x = 0 feel equally good against them.
Things I've thought about: Kor Firewalker or Timely Reinforcements? Maybe swap 1 Negate for 1 dispel? Any room for a Sowing Salt for Tron? And on that topic, is Sowing Salt even worth it? Open to other suggestions.
EDIT: didn't see you wanted suggestions for change. Honestly I don't have specific criticisms. Only things I'm not convinced for you are the Rev and 2nd relic, but if they work for you I can't say otherwise. I tried both and I never found the relics highly relevant. Rev usually got taken away by discard vs Abzan although the games I popped it off if felt great. It just feels too narrow of a SB card to really carry its own weight.
Vjeren Horvat also played relic in gp Prague and was very satisfied with it. It's great to side in not only versus goyf/ooze/tasigur, but any deck with snapcaster, or gy based decks like storm, dredge or living end. The card is not mind blowing like a Bskull or a stony silence, but it gives a very slight and free advantage. It's basically free for one mana, and you can cycle it whenever you want. Having a 58 card deck means you'll be drawing your powerfull spells more often, this really matters. Against gy combo decks this also increases your win percentage by a lot!
I don't really like sowing salt atm. Tron is not that widely played and we already have threats + answers against their deck. Playing an extra counterspell is also very good against tron, and far more versatile.
timely is good, dispel is good. Kor firewalker is a bit narrow imo, timely is also good against zoo and affinity :).
What are you talking about? I'm pretty sure you didn't read my post at all. The first sentence mentions that this deck will be played at a PPTQ. That's the largest event I have access to. Are you aware of any other Modern GP happening this weekend???? I'm not either. Why are you not out winning a GP this weekend?? See I can ask stupid questions too!
I've been following this thread for a while but haven't posted yet. Thought I'd run my list by you guys and see what you think. I'm new to modern but have found that I'm at least 50-50 in most matchups with this deck, though it hasn't been particularly dominant. Still learning the format, though. I haven't played my updated version below yet.
3x Flooded Strand
2x Arid Mesa
4x Scalding Tarn
2x Steam Vents
1x Hallowed Fountain
1x Sacred Foundry
1x Godless Shrine
1x Watery Grave
1x Mountain
2x Island
1x Plains
4x Celestial Colonnade
2x Tectonic Edge
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x Geist of Saint Traft
1x Vendilion Clique
2x Restoration Angel
1x Thundermaw Hellkite
Non-creature spells (23)
4x Path to Exile
4x Lightning Bolt
4x Lightning Helix
2x Electrolyze
3x Remand
1x Mana Leak
2x Spell Snare
1x Valorous Stance
2x Lingering Souls
2x Stony Silence
2x Wear // Tear
2x Counterflux
1x Negate
2x Celestial Purge
1x Wrath of God
1x Lingering Souls
2x Kor Firewalker
1x Aven Mindcensor
1x Keranos, God of Storms
Even though the black splash for Lingering Souls is a little greedy, it has been absolutely amazing for me, especially with Liliana around.
One of the changes I'd like to make would be to swap out Keranos for Batterskull. In general, Keranos and Sphinx's Rev were both a little too slow for me.
I'm unsure of my counterspell suite--I like to have a hard counter for Liliana, combo, and Blood Moon maindeck, but Mana Leak is a terrible topdeck. Blood Moon and Liliana in general just wreck me. I like the 2 Spell Snares, but other lists seem lighter on those. I'm not sure of how to feel about Electrolyze either. I like to have it for the cycling effect given the lack of overall card draw post DTT, but it isn't always great against Abzan, Twin, or Bloom Titan, which seem like they're going to be more popular. If I could get a couple Cryptic Commands, I think I'd take out 1x Mana Leak and 1x Electrolyze for 2x Cryptic Commands.
Also considering swapping the Kor Firewalkers for either 2x Kitchen Finks or 2x Timely Reinforcements. I don't think Timely Reinforcements works that well with Lingering Souls, though. Kitchen Finks seems like it could be solid. I could try finding room for another Resto if that's the direction I go.
I live in Taiwan. GP Vancouver isn't an option for me. GP Singapore in a few months would be my closest high level option, HENCE why I'm playing in a PPTQ this weekend. If you don't have the skills or knowledge of the deck you should be asking more questions and not trying to sound like an authority on the deck. Some of us here have spent considerable time and effort into refining a list. I only posted this one as it's been an upgrade over previous versions and fights the meta better than the other Jeskai decks floating around. If it's not your style of deck than that's fine but you can't say it's bad just because you don't like it. You haven't tested it.