Some of you asked me what I thought about Elspeth, Knight-Errant after testing with her.
I recorded a video late last night talking about her and UWR Geist in general: http://youtu.be/lY3R3tn5_m0 Let me know what you think, the list is in the video. I am going to cut a Cryptic and test the deck with no Spell Snare.
In short, I think Elspeth good but bad in multiples, I also want to give Ajani a test it's been awhile. This deck already runs 6-7 Legendary type cards, adding 2 more to the list is pushing that number too high, UWR cannot afford to have many dead draws.
Also, after recording I found a list that went 4-0 in a daily. He interestingly main decks 2 x Engineered Explosives which I'll admit never even crossed my mind. On one hand that sounds great, it can provide that two for one ability I mentioned that the deck is currently lacking without Electrolyze, but on the other you cannot burn them in the face, it doesn't draw a card, it's slow. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/232473
I ordered two Cryptic Commands today...I think that put me in the doghouse for a bit with the wife...
But on the other hand I am building this deck again. Yay.
It will still be fetchless because lolmoney but I am excited to have the Cryptics added. I am thinking I am going for 3 Geist and no Splicers this time. Geist is just such a fast clock. I will also be mainboarding two Wall of Omens because they have always been great for me.
I would call McLaren's list more midrange than control to be honest. He ran 4 angels, 3 Kiki's, snapcasters, and 4 Walls with fewer counterspells and no lightning helix (and no planeswalkers).
Yes it didn't use Geist, but Greg Orange's list was more Control than McLaren's.
I feel like Geist has been at a disadvantage in this meta for a long time now simply because it's so difficult to attack into things like Goyf, Finks, and Ooze. However, he is so good at closing games and putting on pressure, he is ironically one of the best threats to have in such a removal heavy format. We'll debate whether or not he's relevant probably forever, but I bet he saw a decent amount of play during the GP, just not enough to squeeze into top 16.
With that in mind, if he's not the go-to choice for UWR decks, he might need to be moved to the sideboard after game 1 or brought in for games 2 and 3. We know his strengths and weaknesses; if people really want to play Geist, we have to put him in when he's got the advantage and pull him out otherwise.
With that in mind, is it safer to play a list with Resto/Kiki? The combo win can happen whether you're ahead or behind, and it's kinda difficult to come back with the typical Geist midrange deck when you're behind.
Some of you asked me what I thought about Elspeth, Knight-Errant after testing with her.
I recorded a video late last night talking about her and UWR Geist in general: http://youtu.be/lY3R3tn5_m0 Let me know what you think, the list is in the video. I am going to cut a Cryptic and test the deck with no Spell Snare.
In short, I think Elspeth good but bad in multiples, I also want to give Ajani a test it's been awhile. This deck already runs 6-7 Legendary type cards, adding 2 more to the list is pushing that number too high, UWR cannot afford to have many dead draws.
Also, after recording I found a list that went 4-0 in a daily. He interestingly main decks 2 x Engineered Explosives which I'll admit never even crossed my mind. On one hand that sounds great, it can provide that two for one ability I mentioned that the deck is currently lacking without Electrolyze, but on the other you cannot burn them in the face, it doesn't draw a card, it's slow. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/232473
What are your guys' thoughts?
I actually saw the same list and decided to sleeve it up.I think the list makes us insane game one with explosives against any aggro ir permanent based deck and games two and three we can board out our geist and clique package for more wraths. I also am liking how it for goes spell snare for remand and leaks and the misers izzet charm.
I feel like Geist has been at a disadvantage in this meta for a long time now simply because it's so difficult to attack into things like Goyf, Finks, and Ooze. However, he is so good at closing games and putting on pressure, he is ironically one of the best threats to have in such a removal heavy format. We'll debate whether or not he's relevant probably forever, but I bet he saw a decent amount of play during the GP, just not enough to squeeze into top 16.
With that in mind, if he's not the go-to choice for UWR decks, he might need to be moved to the sideboard after game 1 or brought in for games 2 and 3. We know his strengths and weaknesses; if people really want to play Geist, we have to put him in when he's got the advantage and pull him out otherwise.
With that in mind, is it safer to play a list with Resto/Kiki? The combo win can happen whether you're ahead or behind, and it's kinda difficult to come back with the typical Geist midrange deck when you're behind.
I completely agree with you and that's also the same reason I recently tested playing only 2 Geist. As we shouldn't cast it in turn 3 anymore he became a mid/late game finisher for me. My results were great and as I mentionend it in my tournament report (on the previous pages) he accelerated my clock like 2-3 times though it didn't feel necessary besides once. From my point of view he isn't necessary anymore as we can win matches without him, yet slower.
The same counts for Blade Splicer, but in late game GoST should be in advantage.
Regarding UWR Kiki it shares most of its cards with our UWR Midrange lists, but the few differences make a huge impact as UWR Kiki can win out of nowhere whereas UWR Midrange has to fight long grindy games just like UWR Control. It would be interesting to know how many of the 17 UWR decks on day 2 played Geist, but I guess UWR control was more dominant. Additionally I don't know whether McLaren's deck was counted as the lone UWR Twin deck on day 2 or as a further UWR Control deck. McLaren probably caught many people on surprise as they expected him to play UWR Control though UWR Kiki is absolutely competitive now.
However I'm not sold yet on these UWR Kiki lists after one result, but they are definitely interesting. Still I'll give UWR Flash a try, the slightly more aggressive UWR control deck.
That's an interesting option for Geist. I mean unless there's a better line of play I usually try and get him down as early as possible but now that you mention it, unless you know you can clear a path for him there's no reason to tap out turn 3. If I were to drop to 2 I'd probably take out my Elspeths as well; turn 3 Geist into turn 4 Elspeth was kinda the game plan there. What did you replace the 2 spots with? Restos? Spell Snare? More Cryptics?
I'm considering going -2 Geist, -2 Elspeth, +2 Resto +1 Mana Leak +1 Sphinx's Revelation to my current list.
Despite the results the UWR Kiki list put up I feel like UWR flash is still better. There's just something awesome about playing your stuff on their turn hahah. Although, Voice of Resurgence is a huge problem for Flash. I dunno. I love the fact that there are so many viable flavors but figuring out which one is the best is nearly impossible.
Has anyone considered 1or two sword of fire and ice? It can draw cards for us and deal extra dmg. Furthermore it can make Geist itself and snapcaster a real threat.
I'd play Feast and Famine over Fire and Ice if I were to run swords. The stuff you often find on the other side of the field blocking you is either Green or Black, and having untapped mana for their turn is huge. You swing with Colonnade and still have full mana for Cryptic and stuff. Better than a card +2 dmg.
Has anyone considered 1or two sword of fire and ice? It can draw cards for us and deal extra dmg. Furthermore it can make Geist itself and snapcaster a real threat.
I wish we could effectively run swords, they are awesome cards, especially Sword of Fire and Ice.
I think the main issues that make them ineffective for us are the following:
1. We do not run very many creatures, therefore we do not have many targets for the sword.
2. If you are trying to get aggressive with putting a sword on Geist... Geist on turn 3, sword on turn 4 leaving one mana open, equip on turn 5 leaving 2 mana open. Not only is a turn 5 sword swing not aggressive and not fast, it ties up your mana for all of those turns.
If you're looking for a way to punch Geist through and make your other creatures better, I would consider a one of Elspeth, Knight-Errant over a sword. She is faster on curve, and she is better on an empty board.
Also, this is slightly off topic, but I don't know anyone who likes Geist of Saint Traft who doesn't think about bashing someones face while he carries a sword. For that reason I made a Geist Commander Deck. It runs Sword of Feast, Sword of War, Sword of Fire, Jitte, Steel of the Godhead, Darksteel Plate so I can wrath the board and have Geist live.... It's how I get to do my "Geist living the dream" magic playing. I have had Geist running around with three swords on him, and a Bident of Thassa in play. It might not have been degenerate on power level, but it was certainly "living the dream" and hell fun!
Having tried swords in this deck to little success, I strongly agree with GreatNateMTG's assessment, with the possible exception of a miser's Sword of Feast and Famine out of the board against BGx decks. The untap-all-lands trigger makes it so that we can play and equip it on turn 5 while (hopefully) still keeping mana open on their turn. Then again, they still have Abrupt Decay, so YMMV.
How does this deck do against RG Tron? I know UW Tron (and U Tron) have a really rough time with Geist. I assume if you bring in a couple Stony Silence and a couple Runed Halo (naming Karn) you can race them pretty easily with Geist?
Just need to counter O Stone and Pyro right (although i guess Stony takes care of O Stone)
Yeah I actually play mono U Tron quite a bit. I know when I am playing U Tron one of the last things I want to see come out is Geist. A resolved Geist is very hard to deal with for me.
Sundering does hurt, and Path makes it worse usually. I guess hard counters with Cryptic help. The thing about playing against U Tron is that very often they will slam Sundering ASAP, especially if they don't have a ton of experience with the deck. Should that happen Mana Leak generally answers the issue.
Still that would definitely be a race. I would probably go the burn on that one and just try to end it before Titan/Slaver gets going.
The examples you gave are good but it covers such a wide range.
Emrakul
Karn
Liliana
Spooky creatures (Goyf or Wurmcoil)
Mindslaver
etc.
It is very rarely a dead draw, and since you know what you are playing by the time you bring it in (Game 2 or 3) you will be able to name at least one card you saw in G1 that you don't want to have to deal with in the other games.
I had it in the SB of an Esper control deck I had and played against GR Tron several times (my buddy was running it). I stick Runed Halo naming Karn and the drop a Stony Silence and I win.
Keep in mind guys, that although Runed Halo protects you from Emrakul damage, it doesn't stop the Annihilator trigger from resolving. So, in many cases after sacrificing to the trigger, it's pretty much game.
Yes it worth naming Lili. The discard is judt to tick her up you never really lose to it. The ultimate and edict are what kill you and Halo stops both.
It's pretty bad against Ad Naseaum though. They always bring in Echoing Truth or Patrician's Scorn from the sideboard so if they've started to combo off it's too late.
It's pretty bad against Ad Naseaum though. They always bring in Echoing Truth or Patrician's Scorn from the sideboard so if they've started to combo off it's too late.
Yep, I thought I was being clever when I did that. The Ad Naseaum player just bounced Runed Halo and killed me.
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I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
I loathe creatures! Praise Prison and Land Destruction!
My Peasant Cube (looking for feedback)
If you're going to run Steppe Lynx, might as well run Plated Geopede as well.
Some of you asked me what I thought about Elspeth, Knight-Errant after testing with her.
I recorded a video late last night talking about her and UWR Geist in general: http://youtu.be/lY3R3tn5_m0 Let me know what you think, the list is in the video. I am going to cut a Cryptic and test the deck with no Spell Snare.
In short, I think Elspeth good but bad in multiples, I also want to give Ajani a test it's been awhile. This deck already runs 6-7 Legendary type cards, adding 2 more to the list is pushing that number too high, UWR cannot afford to have many dead draws.
Also, after recording I found a list that went 4-0 in a daily. He interestingly main decks 2 x Engineered Explosives which I'll admit never even crossed my mind. On one hand that sounds great, it can provide that two for one ability I mentioned that the deck is currently lacking without Electrolyze, but on the other you cannot burn them in the face, it doesn't draw a card, it's slow. http://www.mtggoldfish.com/deck/232473
What are your guys' thoughts?
But on the other hand I am building this deck again. Yay.
It will still be fetchless because lolmoney but I am excited to have the Cryptics added. I am thinking I am going for 3 Geist and no Splicers this time. Geist is just such a fast clock. I will also be mainboarding two Wall of Omens because they have always been great for me.
Yes it didn't use Geist, but Greg Orange's list was more Control than McLaren's.
With that in mind, if he's not the go-to choice for UWR decks, he might need to be moved to the sideboard after game 1 or brought in for games 2 and 3. We know his strengths and weaknesses; if people really want to play Geist, we have to put him in when he's got the advantage and pull him out otherwise.
With that in mind, is it safer to play a list with Resto/Kiki? The combo win can happen whether you're ahead or behind, and it's kinda difficult to come back with the typical Geist midrange deck when you're behind.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
I actually saw the same list and decided to sleeve it up.I think the list makes us insane game one with explosives against any aggro ir permanent based deck and games two and three we can board out our geist and clique package for more wraths. I also am liking how it for goes spell snare for remand and leaks and the misers izzet charm.
That's an interesting option for Geist. I mean unless there's a better line of play I usually try and get him down as early as possible but now that you mention it, unless you know you can clear a path for him there's no reason to tap out turn 3. If I were to drop to 2 I'd probably take out my Elspeths as well; turn 3 Geist into turn 4 Elspeth was kinda the game plan there. What did you replace the 2 spots with? Restos? Spell Snare? More Cryptics?
I'm considering going -2 Geist, -2 Elspeth, +2 Resto +1 Mana Leak +1 Sphinx's Revelation to my current list.
Despite the results the UWR Kiki list put up I feel like UWR flash is still better. There's just something awesome about playing your stuff on their turn hahah. Although, Voice of Resurgence is a huge problem for Flash. I dunno. I love the fact that there are so many viable flavors but figuring out which one is the best is nearly impossible.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
I'd play Feast and Famine over Fire and Ice if I were to run swords. The stuff you often find on the other side of the field blocking you is either Green or Black, and having untapped mana for their turn is huge. You swing with Colonnade and still have full mana for Cryptic and stuff. Better than a card +2 dmg.
You wont find swords in a midrange build though.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
I wish we could effectively run swords, they are awesome cards, especially Sword of Fire and Ice.
I think the main issues that make them ineffective for us are the following:
1. We do not run very many creatures, therefore we do not have many targets for the sword.
2. If you are trying to get aggressive with putting a sword on Geist... Geist on turn 3, sword on turn 4 leaving one mana open, equip on turn 5 leaving 2 mana open. Not only is a turn 5 sword swing not aggressive and not fast, it ties up your mana for all of those turns.
If you're looking for a way to punch Geist through and make your other creatures better, I would consider a one of Elspeth, Knight-Errant over a sword. She is faster on curve, and she is better on an empty board.
Also, this is slightly off topic, but I don't know anyone who likes Geist of Saint Traft who doesn't think about bashing someones face while he carries a sword. For that reason I made a Geist Commander Deck. It runs Sword of Feast, Sword of War, Sword of Fire, Jitte, Steel of the Godhead, Darksteel Plate so I can wrath the board and have Geist live.... It's how I get to do my "Geist living the dream" magic playing. I have had Geist running around with three swords on him, and a Bident of Thassa in play. It might not have been degenerate on power level, but it was certainly "living the dream" and hell fun!
Just need to counter O Stone and Pyro right (although i guess Stony takes care of O Stone)
Sundering does hurt, and Path makes it worse usually. I guess hard counters with Cryptic help. The thing about playing against U Tron is that very often they will slam Sundering ASAP, especially if they don't have a ton of experience with the deck. Should that happen Mana Leak generally answers the issue.
Still that would definitely be a race. I would probably go the burn on that one and just try to end it before Titan/Slaver gets going.
The examples you gave are good but it covers such a wide range.
Emrakul
Karn
Liliana
Spooky creatures (Goyf or Wurmcoil)
Mindslaver
etc.
It is very rarely a dead draw, and since you know what you are playing by the time you bring it in (Game 2 or 3) you will be able to name at least one card you saw in G1 that you don't want to have to deal with in the other games.
I had it in the SB of an Esper control deck I had and played against GR Tron several times (my buddy was running it). I stick Runed Halo naming Karn and the drop a Stony Silence and I win.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Yep, I thought I was being clever when I did that. The Ad Naseaum player just bounced Runed Halo and killed me.