Has anyone else considered Boros Charm for the Blade Splicer build or am I crazy for thinking it could work?
4 to the face/protecting creatures/double strike on a Geist angel for RW just seems really good in the mid build, but again I haven't playtested it yet so I could be way off.
I've asked that too..it's probably not as good as azorius charm when it comes to utility cards but it's a good card just not utilized fully by this deck.
we were actually saying exactly the opposite: GoST does not murder anyone these days
GoST has the same challenges he has always had, but maybe things are a little worse for him now. My SB plans often include taking him out. I like him and I still plan to include him in my decks however I may try some of the newer version running 2 of him. I'll also continue tweaking/testing the all in Geist plan as well.
we were actually saying exactly the opposite: GoST does not murder anyone these days
He murdered a fair amount of people for me last Friday, but I will be dropping down to 2 MB and bringing in 4 Blade Splicers just for some more reliable beatdown. Blinking Blade Splicer with Resto is just a recipe for shenanigans.
i will go down to 2 copies, too! i just have to decide whether to go 3x clique or to add the 4th remand
I added a 3rd remand and will probably keep it there. I am always happy to see remand in a midrange deck, but with all the Snapcasters I think 4 would be overkill for me.
No Cryptics or Cliques because I am not dropping that kind of scratch on cardboard any time soon.
This runs basically the same as my 4x Geist version but I dropped 2 Geists and a couple spells to make room for the Splicers. I haven't tested Splicer yet but I am excited to do so. I have heard good things. I might go to 2x Boros Charms and 1x Azorius depending on how things go. Giving the golems or a Geist angel double strike could be pretty back breaking and unexpected.
I might also run 2x Electrolyze instead of Azorius Charm.
I might also run 2x Electrolyze instead of Azorius Charm.
I've dropped Elctrolyze. Like Geist, at the moment is really really bad positioned, at least to me.
With the amount of combo around, Counterflux mainboard seems a good choice.
I currently have Counterflux mainboarded (2). I am thinking electrolyze may be SB material. The only deck that beat me last friday was this Esper Gifts/tokens thing. Electrolyze would have saved my bacon.
I think the specific changes you make are meta dependent. I tend to see a lot of aggro, so 2 electrolyze and 4 helix are more than welcome. Thinking of doing some testing with geist out the sideboard as another win con. This is just because I usually have to wait till very late game to drop batterskull/thundermaw, and geist is just as much of a clock, more resilient at that point of the game when I'm in total control, and costs that much less so leaving up counters/cryptic when dropping him is very reasonable.
... geist is just as much of a clock, more resilient at that point of the game when I'm in total control, and costs that much less so leaving up counters/cryptic when dropping him is very reasonable.
Worth noting that this is a totally viable Game 1 maindeck strategy, too. Forcing Geist through potential counters/removal on T3 (which seems to be the assumed strategy for those debating whether or not to include Geist) is rarely the right call, even in a purely Geist/tempo build. I still play Geist and I find that waiting until T5 to cast Geist with Remand/Mana Leak/Spell Snare/Dispel as backup (or bluff!) is often a better call as it allows our counter/removal suite (which is our deck's biggest strength) to shine on the critical turns 1-4 and makes the most of Geist once he hits.
How can you reliably cast thundermaw with only 21 lands? Seems ambitious and delver is probably better than geist right now but geist is still horrible in the current meta. Unless you have the meta to support him I think the best decision for most people would to be to just chuck him completely.
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Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I've been posting some really good results with this list (far better than with your standard Mid-Range list). Also in the mirror (mir-range or even control) I tend to just decimate them. I had Elspeth maindeck, but after a few situations where the opp was @ 5 or less life and drawing it over a Thundermaw... I went with a second Thundermaw.
With 21 lands, even if you cast a Serum Visions on turns 1-3, you only have a 50% chance of seeing 5 land cards by turn 5. If you don't cast a Serums Visions, your probability to have 5 lands on turn 5 falls to only 41%.
By contrast, the 25 land mana base run by most UWR Midrange lists has a 62% chance to hit 5 lands by turn 5, and if they cast an Electrolyze or Remand before then, that percentage rises to 72%.
21 lands simply isn't enough if you plan to cast Thundermaw Hellkite, even with the benefit of running 4 Serum Visions.
I have to agree with other two people. That is an extremely low land count and you might be getting lucky drawing lands. I have a human/hate bears deck that runs 22 and even the there are plenty of games I only end up with 3 lands in play when the game ends at thr 7-8 th turn. I would reduce to 3 delvers, 2 serum visions to start with.
I've been posting some really good results with this list (far better than with your standard Mid-Range list). Also in the mirror (mir-range or even control) I tend to just decimate them. I had Elspeth maindeck, but after a few situations where the opp was @ 5 or less life and drawing it over a Thundermaw... I went with a second Thundermaw.
May I suggest that this be posted in the WUR Delver thread instead (as the main thing that distinguishes WUR Midrange from WUR Delver is the higher land count, higher manacost spells, and it not playing Delver).
I might be back on the Geist wagon...not sure. Last time at FNM I didn't see any Zoo and Geist just puts a much faster clock on my opponent.
Question though:
I kind of want to run a 3/3 split of Blade Splicer and Geist. Does this cluster up the 3 drop too much? I am running more or less the stock list with Counterflux instead of Cryptic Command.
Try a 2/2 split then. 6 or more three drops, even a deck with 25 lands is too crowded. Its better to either split, or commit to one or the other. If your meta is less dude heavy, why not vendilion clique over either one?
Try a 2/2 split then. 6 or more three drops, even a deck with 25 lands is too crowded. Its better to either split, or commit to one or the other. If your meta is less dude heavy, why not vendilion clique over either one?
I would love to run Clique but not for what she is currently priced at.
I think you're right though, I need to cut a couple three drops. I might just SB the Counterflux for a Spell Snare to try and clear things up.
I am thinking a 3/2 Geist/Splicer split will work. If Geist gets pwned at FNM I'll switch the split to favor Splicer I think.
I am running more or less the stock list with Counterflux instead of Cryptic Command.
I have seen a lot of back forth on here regarding Cryptic. My opinion is that a midrange list running Geist should also run Cryptic Command. Cryptic synergizes with Geist in an big way. It allows the deck to switch into an aggressive role and become the "beatdown" when the time is appropriate. I think that is very important, and critical to winning with this deck. Often with Geist in play Cryptic Command is "tap your dudes, draw a card, deal six damage." Additionally, Cryptic is our strongest "mid-range" card, our best for generating extra value, and getting a little bit ahead when we spent the first part of the game trading cards one for one with our opponent.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
4 to the face/protecting creatures/double strike on a Geist angel for RW just seems really good in the mid build, but again I haven't playtested it yet so I could be way off.
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
I hope everyone is enjoying murdering people with Geist!
I said a few days ago that I would be posting some UWR Geist videos.
I only have one up so far, it's probably a little entry level for readers of this thread, however I thought I'd share as promised.
More to come soon...
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLaUnM24uNg0CM2xgCEiIkXvi837xQ7kEA
GoST has the same challenges he has always had, but maybe things are a little worse for him now. My SB plans often include taking him out. I like him and I still plan to include him in my decks however I may try some of the newer version running 2 of him. I'll also continue tweaking/testing the all in Geist plan as well.
He murdered a fair amount of people for me last Friday, but I will be dropping down to 2 MB and bringing in 4 Blade Splicers just for some more reliable beatdown. Blinking Blade Splicer with Resto is just a recipe for shenanigans.
I added a 3rd remand and will probably keep it there. I am always happy to see remand in a midrange deck, but with all the Snapcasters I think 4 would be overkill for me.
This is what I am planning on testing:
4x Blade Splicer
3x Restoration Angel
2x Geist of Saint Traft
3x Lightning Helix
4x Path to Exile
4x Mana Leak
3x Remand
2x Counterflux
2x Azorius Charm
1x Boros Charm
21x other lands
No Cryptics or Cliques because I am not dropping that kind of scratch on cardboard any time soon.
This runs basically the same as my 4x Geist version but I dropped 2 Geists and a couple spells to make room for the Splicers. I haven't tested Splicer yet but I am excited to do so. I have heard good things. I might go to 2x Boros Charms and 1x Azorius depending on how things go. Giving the golems or a Geist angel double strike could be pretty back breaking and unexpected.
I might also run 2x Electrolyze instead of Azorius Charm.
I currently have Counterflux mainboarded (2). I am thinking electrolyze may be SB material. The only deck that beat me last friday was this Esper Gifts/tokens thing. Electrolyze would have saved my bacon.
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
Worth noting that this is a totally viable Game 1 maindeck strategy, too. Forcing Geist through potential counters/removal on T3 (which seems to be the assumed strategy for those debating whether or not to include Geist) is rarely the right call, even in a purely Geist/tempo build. I still play Geist and I find that waiting until T5 to cast Geist with Remand/Mana Leak/Spell Snare/Dispel as backup (or bluff!) is often a better call as it allows our counter/removal suite (which is our deck's biggest strength) to shine on the critical turns 1-4 and makes the most of Geist once he hits.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
With 21 lands, even if you cast a Serum Visions on turns 1-3, you only have a 50% chance of seeing 5 land cards by turn 5. If you don't cast a Serums Visions, your probability to have 5 lands on turn 5 falls to only 41%.
By contrast, the 25 land mana base run by most UWR Midrange lists has a 62% chance to hit 5 lands by turn 5, and if they cast an Electrolyze or Remand before then, that percentage rises to 72%.
21 lands simply isn't enough if you plan to cast Thundermaw Hellkite, even with the benefit of running 4 Serum Visions.
I'd also go down to either 3 or 2 geist
GWBoglesGW///URDelverUR WVial-knightsW
May I suggest that this be posted in the WUR Delver thread instead (as the main thing that distinguishes WUR Midrange from WUR Delver is the higher land count, higher manacost spells, and it not playing Delver).
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/modern/modern-deck-creation/220047-wur-delver
Storm Crow is strictly worse than Seacoast Drake.
Question though:
I kind of want to run a 3/3 split of Blade Splicer and Geist. Does this cluster up the 3 drop too much? I am running more or less the stock list with Counterflux instead of Cryptic Command.
I would love to run Clique but not for what she is currently priced at.
I think you're right though, I need to cut a couple three drops. I might just SB the Counterflux for a Spell Snare to try and clear things up.
I am thinking a 3/2 Geist/Splicer split will work. If Geist gets pwned at FNM I'll switch the split to favor Splicer I think.
Thanks
I have seen a lot of back forth on here regarding Cryptic. My opinion is that a midrange list running Geist should also run Cryptic Command. Cryptic synergizes with Geist in an big way. It allows the deck to switch into an aggressive role and become the "beatdown" when the time is appropriate. I think that is very important, and critical to winning with this deck. Often with Geist in play Cryptic Command is "tap your dudes, draw a card, deal six damage." Additionally, Cryptic is our strongest "mid-range" card, our best for generating extra value, and getting a little bit ahead when we spent the first part of the game trading cards one for one with our opponent.