I agree. I like Mana Leak too much for the beginning to slow down tempo and as a key card to prevent combo from going all in. I personally always like 2.
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Well, while i do understand where you are coming from, its not like you are going to play all 4 paths anyways, and there are things removal just can not handle. Ask Karn Liberated or Liliana of the Veil for their opinions on the matter.
I'll test it this weekend. I have a pretty diverse meta.
I just don't like losing Electrolyze, but I might have to cut that cord and run more counter spells. -2 Electrolyze for +2 Mana Leak. Possibly -1 more Electrolyze for +1 Spell Snare/Remand as well. Not too sure because I have no idea if Electrolyze is good anymore.
I'll test it this weekend. I have a pretty diverse meta.
I just don't like losing Electrolyze, but I might have to cut that cord and run more counter spells. -2 Electrolyze for +2 Mana Leak. Possibly -1 Electrolyze for +1 Spell Snare/Remand as well. Not too sure because I have no idea if Electrolyze is good anymore.
It's really only worse overall against Zoo. It's just as powerful against every other deck as it has been. It just depends on what % of the meta each deck ends up being. It's great against Faeries (more often than not I have seen Faeries NOT run Scion of Oona).
It just depends on what you expect to be matched up against and how often. I think it may be a weaker choice now since Zoo seems to be a fairly popular deck.
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If you pay attention to his build, you will notice he doesnt want tempo, he wants answers, sicne hes playing a lot more controlthan the standard midrange list. Its not as controlish as shenhar´s worlds list, but its close.
In a tipical midrange, yeah, play remand. As many as you can fit.
Whose list? Mine? I run 4 Geist, 3 Cliques and 4 Snapcasters so there's a lot of tempo in there.
4 Spell Snare was amazing. You basically always win when you win the die roll with UWR so it made sense to me to play to losing the die roll. I countered Platings, Remands, Geth's Verdict (I know, right?), Steel Overseer and more. I thought Electrolyze underperformed and I want to replace them with two more spells that still cantrip. I'll probably do 2 Serum Visions in their spot and try Remand. Remand is a fine card but it kind of sucks on the draw. I want something I don't hate keeping in postboard that will draw me into sideboarded cards. I went 4-1 against semi-real decks.
If you run 4 Snares main you've gotta have cards from the board to bring them out for. When they're bad, they're real bad.
Geist is the bee's knees. Blade Splicer is so bad - Lightning Bolt is the most common card in Modern. I'd only run Splicer for budget reasons. Brimaz looks fine but doesn't do anything astoundingly better than Geist. Cryptic Command is also still good and I mainly used it for "tap your team, draw a card, take 6 from Geist, next turn I'll do it again with Snapcaster and you'll die."
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I have an idea that might sound a little crazy, but am curious what you guys think. Would it be wild to consider the UW plan for this deck, or at least the creature heavy variety, and run this creature set?
In games where you are less concerned about leaving mana up for spells:
Turn 2: Wall of Omens
Turn 3: Brimaz
Turn 4: Brimaz swing (get cat) -> Play Geist
Turn 5: Sublime Archangel -> Swing with geist as a 8/8
On games where you play geist turn 3 or turn 4 with the intention of playing resto on turn 5, you generally use resto to swing with geist and save him. In this scenario, there is no need to save Geist as he becomes too powerful. With such a diverse board of creatures, this also gives a lot of options. If you are playing zoo, this can get crazy as Brimaz also gets to block twice, meaning two more cats and Geist swinging as a 10/10
-Loxodon Smiter has had worked wonders for me, and I board him in in a lot of matchups. Any control and decks that run Lili have a lot of trouble with him, and I like him against Tron over Geist because he can't get pyroclasm'd. I'd really want to run 4, but I don't have space for it and on the (very very) rare occasion that my one green source gets destroyed I wouldn't want to have four completely dead cards.
-I used to run Hallowed Burial + Pyroclasm instead of Engineered Explosives, as together they give both the speed and the 100% removal I want in wipes. However with the addition of Nacatl and Bitterblossom I've tried switching to Explosives. I do miss tucking Finks and VoRs though.
-I've been thinking about cutting Cryptic entirely, as generally I don't like drawing it as much as in UWr control and it becomes awkward to cast against the control decks where I actually want my counterspells the most
-I'm also dubious abour Remand; generally I don't want to get to the gamestate where Leak goes dead anyways and even when it gets that far, Remand becomes much worse as well since they can just recast. In the early game, it basically counters a spell and lets both and your opponent "draw", but with the difference that your opponent always draws something he wants to play while you might draw a land
-I can't seem to find room for a fourth snapcaster. I don't like having too many of them earlygame and rather would just have a spell. Plus I like to board in RIP, which makes them useless.
-I'm not too big of a fan of Sowing Salt. I used to run 3 Molten Rains instead, but I don't know what else to cut from SB to make room for it. Salt is only good against Tron while Molten Rain also helps vs control and scapeshift, but I worry running only two Molten Rains wouldn't be enough vs Tron.
-I've seen the discussion here a lot, so I also wanted to say that I really love Spell Snare, if you ask me it might even be the best counterspell in Modern. You hit so many important cards against so many decks, and even in its worser matchups it's still not a dead draw.
Ok so after dabbling with budget decks for a bit (Mono U Tron and Mono Black Control) I have decided to start 'investing' in a proven deck that fits my playstyle. I decided that UWR Mid is that deck.
So I am going to be bugging you guys with dumb questions for the next while. I have read through a bit of the thread, watched GP Prague and tutorials, so I kind of know what I am talking about, but probably not. A couple of things about the deck I am building:
- This will be a 'fetch-less' deck. I just can't drop that much on fetchlands. Hopefully a reprint comes around. Yes I know that will make this deck not as consistent, but oh well.
- I am probably not running Vendillion Clique until the price drops, and Cryptic Command for the same reason.
That said here are a couple questions:
1) I see everyone (pretty much) runs 4 Geists. Is that ideal being that he is legendary?
2) Has anyone tried Wurmcoil Engine in this deck? Maybe even a 1 of mainboard? I feel like with aggro being more of a thing, if you can control the boardstate till mid game and drop the Wurm it is GG if you have counter back up.
3) I am planning on a 2/2 split between Mana Leak and Dissolve. I feel like I will want a hard counter later, and since I don't want to pay for any Cryptics yet I figured this would be ok. Thoughts?
Everything else in the deck I am planning on doing according to the primer.
Ok so after dabbling with budget decks for a bit (Mono U Tron and Mono Black Control) I have decided to start 'investing' in a proven deck that fits my playstyle. I decided that UWR Mid is that deck.
So I am going to be bugging you guys with dumb questions for the next while. I have read through a bit of the thread, watched GP Prague and tutorials, so I kind of know what I am talking about, but probably not. A couple of things about the deck I am building:
- This will be a 'fetch-less' deck. I just can't drop that much on fetchlands. Hopefully a reprint comes around. Yes I know that will make this deck not as consistent, but oh well.
- I am probably not running Vendillion Clique until the price drops, and Cryptic Command for the same reason.
That said here are a couple questions:
1) I see everyone (pretty much) runs 4 Geists. Is that ideal being that he is legendary?
2) Has anyone tried Wurmcoil Engine in this deck? Maybe even a 1 of mainboard? I feel like with aggro being more of a thing, if you can control the boardstate till mid game and drop the Wurm it is GG if you have counter back up.
3) I am planning on a 2/2 split between Mana Leak and Dissolve. I feel like I will want a hard counter later, and since I don't want to pay for any Cryptics yet I figured this would be ok. Thoughts?
Everything else in the deck I am planning on doing according to the primer.
Thanks guys,
Venom
1) Geist is just that good and you really want to jam 4 into the deck. Against some decks it can be bad but some times he is just a free win where someone doesn't have an answer.
2) 6 mana is a lot where batterskull acts similar and is a little more resiliant and doesn't get eaten by path and other things.
3) disolve. no. Its too much mana in this format. Remand is what you want in this deck for a counterspell. mana leak is passible and played in this deck but three mana counterspells like dissolve aren't what you want. counterflux is the only good three mana counter we might want to play as it says no and there's nothing anyone can say. Then at 4 mana obviously cryptic.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Ok so after dabbling with budget decks for a bit (Mono U Tron and Mono Black Control) I have decided to start 'investing' in a proven deck that fits my playstyle. I decided that UWR Mid is that deck.
So I am going to be bugging you guys with dumb questions for the next while. I have read through a bit of the thread, watched GP Prague and tutorials, so I kind of know what I am talking about, but probably not. A couple of things about the deck I am building:
- This will be a 'fetch-less' deck. I just can't drop that much on fetchlands. Hopefully a reprint comes around. Yes I know that will make this deck not as consistent, but oh well.
- I am probably not running Vendillion Clique until the price drops, and Cryptic Command for the same reason.
That said here are a couple questions:
1) I see everyone (pretty much) runs 4 Geists. Is that ideal being that he is legendary?
2) Has anyone tried Wurmcoil Engine in this deck? Maybe even a 1 of mainboard? I feel like with aggro being more of a thing, if you can control the boardstate till mid game and drop the Wurm it is GG if you have counter back up.
3) I am planning on a 2/2 split between Mana Leak and Dissolve. I feel like I will want a hard counter later, and since I don't want to pay for any Cryptics yet I figured this would be ok. Thoughts?
Everything else in the deck I am planning on doing according to the primer.
Thanks guys,
Venom
1) Geist is just that good and you really want to jam 4 into the deck. Against some decks it can be bad but some times he is just a free win where someone doesn't have an answer.
2) 6 mana is a lot where batterskull acts similar and is a little more resiliant and doesn't get eaten by path and other things.
3) disolve. no. Its too much mana in this format. Remand is what you want in this deck for a counterspell. mana leak is passible and played in this deck but three mana counterspells like dissolve aren't what you want. counterflux is the only good three mana counter we might want to play as it says no and there's nothing anyone can say. Then at 4 mana obviously cryptic.
So you think drop both of the Dissolves for 1 more Remand and 1 Spell Snare? I like the multiple uses of Izzet Charm, but if that is a dumb move just let me know.
Randy ranked UWR Control/Midrange at #2. That's pretty great!
Still not sure how I feel about Electrolyze and Spell Snare right now. They're both pretty poor against Zoo. I'm really strongly leaning towards running 2x Wall of Omens. A wall with 4 toughness that cantips is pretty amazing in this format right now.
The reason that I'm leaning so much on Wall of Omens is because there are rumors that Faeries barely showed up to the Pro Tour, while Zoo was (obviously) everywhere.
Well I bought 4 Geists today...hope they bring $80 worth of joy to my life...
I personally just dropped Geist of Saint Traft from my list. I switched to a pure flash version of the deck and so far have enjoyed the way it plays. I'm thinking I'll keep Geists in the SB though (2 or 3, not sure yet).
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Well I bought 4 Geists today...hope they bring $80 worth of joy to my life...
I personally just dropped Geist of Saint Traft from my list. I switched to a pure flash version of the deck and so far have enjoyed the way it plays. I'm thinking I'll keep Geists in the SB though (2 or 3, not sure yet).
Oh good that's what I like to hear lol
What creatures do you run in a Flash list? Resto angel and Snapcaster obviously, but what else?
Having said that, GoST have won me many many games. He's phenomenal in many metas AND with Cryptic Command he's incredibly powerful. I think there are definitely going to be very successful lists that still run him MB, I just prefer a different playstyle.
I also have MB Supreme Verdict though so, I have a rather unique take on the deck.
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Top 3 decks at the pro-tour: Blue Moon, Living End, Amulet
Answers: Elesh Norn (Blue moon), Iona (Amulet, Living End)
I'm really liking the gifts sideboard...
Both of the decks you listed answers to will put you off your A-game before you get to the point where those critters would be in play. Just putting that out there.
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Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
I just don't like losing Electrolyze, but I might have to cut that cord and run more counter spells. -2 Electrolyze for +2 Mana Leak. Possibly -1 more Electrolyze for +1 Spell Snare/Remand as well. Not too sure because I have no idea if Electrolyze is good anymore.
It's really only worse overall against Zoo. It's just as powerful against every other deck as it has been. It just depends on what % of the meta each deck ends up being. It's great against Faeries (more often than not I have seen Faeries NOT run Scion of Oona).
It just depends on what you expect to be matched up against and how often. I think it may be a weaker choice now since Zoo seems to be a fairly popular deck.
Whose list? Mine? I run 4 Geist, 3 Cliques and 4 Snapcasters so there's a lot of tempo in there.
4 Spell Snare was amazing. You basically always win when you win the die roll with UWR so it made sense to me to play to losing the die roll. I countered Platings, Remands, Geth's Verdict (I know, right?), Steel Overseer and more. I thought Electrolyze underperformed and I want to replace them with two more spells that still cantrip. I'll probably do 2 Serum Visions in their spot and try Remand. Remand is a fine card but it kind of sucks on the draw. I want something I don't hate keeping in postboard that will draw me into sideboarded cards. I went 4-1 against semi-real decks.
If you run 4 Snares main you've gotta have cards from the board to bring them out for. When they're bad, they're real bad.
Geist is the bee's knees. Blade Splicer is so bad - Lightning Bolt is the most common card in Modern. I'd only run Splicer for budget reasons. Brimaz looks fine but doesn't do anything astoundingly better than Geist. Cryptic Command is also still good and I mainly used it for "tap your team, draw a card, take 6 from Geist, next turn I'll do it again with Snapcaster and you'll die."
4x Geist of Saint Traft
4x Snapcaster Mage
4x SUBLIME Archangel
3x Brimaz, King of Oreskos
2x Wall of Omens
In games where you are less concerned about leaving mana up for spells:
Turn 2: Wall of Omens
Turn 3: Brimaz
Turn 4: Brimaz swing (get cat) -> Play Geist
Turn 5: Sublime Archangel -> Swing with geist as a 8/8
On games where you play geist turn 3 or turn 4 with the intention of playing resto on turn 5, you generally use resto to swing with geist and save him. In this scenario, there is no need to save Geist as he becomes too powerful. With such a diverse board of creatures, this also gives a lot of options. If you are playing zoo, this can get crazy as Brimaz also gets to block twice, meaning two more cats and Geist swinging as a 10/10
Modern: Jund Legacy: RUG Delver EDH: Captain Sisay
This is the deck I'm currently running:
3 Snapcaster Mage
1 Thundermaw Hellkite
2 Vendilion Clique
2 Restoration Angel
2 Cryptic Command
4 Lightning Bolt
4 Lightning Helix
3 Electrolyze
3 Spell Snare
2 Mana Leak
2 Remand
3 Path to Exile
3 Arid Mesa
4 Scalding Tarn
1 Sacred Foundry
2 Steam Vents
2 Hallowed Fountain
2 Island
1 Plains
1 Mountain
2 Tectonic Edge
2 Sulfur Falls
1 Stomping Ground
2 Counterflux
2 Stony Silence
1 Threads of Disloyalty
2 Rest in Peace
3 Loxodon Smiter
1 Batterskull
2 Sowing Salt
2 Engineered Explosives
-Loxodon Smiter has had worked wonders for me, and I board him in in a lot of matchups. Any control and decks that run Lili have a lot of trouble with him, and I like him against Tron over Geist because he can't get pyroclasm'd. I'd really want to run 4, but I don't have space for it and on the (very very) rare occasion that my one green source gets destroyed I wouldn't want to have four completely dead cards.
-I used to run Hallowed Burial + Pyroclasm instead of Engineered Explosives, as together they give both the speed and the 100% removal I want in wipes. However with the addition of Nacatl and Bitterblossom I've tried switching to Explosives. I do miss tucking Finks and VoRs though.
-I've been thinking about cutting Cryptic entirely, as generally I don't like drawing it as much as in UWr control and it becomes awkward to cast against the control decks where I actually want my counterspells the most
-I'm also dubious abour Remand; generally I don't want to get to the gamestate where Leak goes dead anyways and even when it gets that far, Remand becomes much worse as well since they can just recast. In the early game, it basically counters a spell and lets both and your opponent "draw", but with the difference that your opponent always draws something he wants to play while you might draw a land
-I can't seem to find room for a fourth snapcaster. I don't like having too many of them earlygame and rather would just have a spell. Plus I like to board in RIP, which makes them useless.
-I'm not too big of a fan of Sowing Salt. I used to run 3 Molten Rains instead, but I don't know what else to cut from SB to make room for it. Salt is only good against Tron while Molten Rain also helps vs control and scapeshift, but I worry running only two Molten Rains wouldn't be enough vs Tron.
-I've seen the discussion here a lot, so I also wanted to say that I really love Spell Snare, if you ask me it might even be the best counterspell in Modern. You hit so many important cards against so many decks, and even in its worser matchups it's still not a dead draw.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
So I am going to be bugging you guys with dumb questions for the next while. I have read through a bit of the thread, watched GP Prague and tutorials, so I kind of know what I am talking about, but probably not. A couple of things about the deck I am building:
- This will be a 'fetch-less' deck. I just can't drop that much on fetchlands. Hopefully a reprint comes around. Yes I know that will make this deck not as consistent, but oh well.
- I am probably not running Vendillion Clique until the price drops, and Cryptic Command for the same reason.
That said here are a couple questions:
1) I see everyone (pretty much) runs 4 Geists. Is that ideal being that he is legendary?
2) Has anyone tried Wurmcoil Engine in this deck? Maybe even a 1 of mainboard? I feel like with aggro being more of a thing, if you can control the boardstate till mid game and drop the Wurm it is GG if you have counter back up.
3) I am planning on a 2/2 split between Mana Leak and Dissolve. I feel like I will want a hard counter later, and since I don't want to pay for any Cryptics yet I figured this would be ok. Thoughts?
Everything else in the deck I am planning on doing according to the primer.
Thanks guys,
Venom
1) Geist is just that good and you really want to jam 4 into the deck. Against some decks it can be bad but some times he is just a free win where someone doesn't have an answer.
2) 6 mana is a lot where batterskull acts similar and is a little more resiliant and doesn't get eaten by path and other things.
3) disolve. no. Its too much mana in this format. Remand is what you want in this deck for a counterspell. mana leak is passible and played in this deck but three mana counterspells like dissolve aren't what you want. counterflux is the only good three mana counter we might want to play as it says no and there's nothing anyone can say. Then at 4 mana obviously cryptic.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
That answers my questions perfectly. Thank you.
1 and 2 both sound great.
Here is the Counterspell suite I currently have:
2x Remand
2x Mana Leak
2x Izzet Charm
1x Counterflux
2x Dissolve
So you think drop both of the Dissolves for 1 more Remand and 1 Spell Snare? I like the multiple uses of Izzet Charm, but if that is a dumb move just let me know.
Thanks again!
Randy ranked UWR Control/Midrange at #2. That's pretty great!
Still not sure how I feel about Electrolyze and Spell Snare right now. They're both pretty poor against Zoo. I'm really strongly leaning towards running 2x Wall of Omens. A wall with 4 toughness that cantips is pretty amazing in this format right now.
The reason that I'm leaning so much on Wall of Omens is because there are rumors that Faeries barely showed up to the Pro Tour, while Zoo was (obviously) everywhere.
I personally just dropped Geist of Saint Traft from my list. I switched to a pure flash version of the deck and so far have enjoyed the way it plays. I'm thinking I'll keep Geists in the SB though (2 or 3, not sure yet).
Oh good that's what I like to hear lol
What creatures do you run in a Flash list? Resto angel and Snapcaster obviously, but what else?
4x Snapcaster Mage
2x Vendilion Clique
4x Celestial Colonnade
Having said that, GoST have won me many many games. He's phenomenal in many metas AND with Cryptic Command he's incredibly powerful. I think there are definitely going to be very successful lists that still run him MB, I just prefer a different playstyle.
I also have MB Supreme Verdict though so, I have a rather unique take on the deck.
Answers: Elesh Norn (Blue moon), Iona (Amulet, Living End)
I'm really liking the gifts sideboard...
Both of the decks you listed answers to will put you off your A-game before you get to the point where those critters would be in play. Just putting that out there.