For some reason, I like keeping spell snares in the deck. It is probably bad vs zoo because there aren't a lot of targets, but against other decks and the mirror it is decent.
I think it is time for us to play a 2-3 pillar of flame from the side. I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of Kitchen Finks (jund players might play this card), and it is pretty good vs Pod decks too.
Snares to hit 4 goyfs, 4 oozes, 4 tribal flames 2-4 helix and some versions with voices, qasalis and thalias (GWR ZooBears)
if i play UWR, i always side out electrolyze, cause a 1RU dont kill nothing and draw is bad, and im not fan of helix, i think the only red card i always want to see in hand is bolt.
You played JESUS?!?! I heard none of his guys stay in the graveyard, and once you think you have him beat he ALWAYS comes back to win within three turns. I like...WORSHIP him.
I will say this in Pillar of Flame's defense, it is freaking amazing in the games where you get to side out electrolyze for pillar of flame...saving yourself 2 mana means you don't even really mind the sorcery speed as you are leaving up mana. I also think this will be possible as the battle for the top will, in my humble opinion, be between UWR midrange and Pod. Splinter twin is just too slow and non-reactive to compete with faeries and zoo in my opinion.
In the long run, I feel like a good jund player could get the jump on us via lili stripping gas from our hands or killing our geists and now that Jund is weaker and decks have returned that we can matchup well against, I think we are poised to take over...
Sadly, that means we'll be next to get hit by the banhammer
What are people's thoughts of running spell pierce main board. For me I have run 2 and have loved it. Granted its a dead draw late game, but early its a beast. Playing a turn 4 geist with pierce backup is just devastating vs control. I also feel like its more of a legacy staple so people don't play around it nearly as much as they do snare,remand/leak, and cryptic. Granted it often gets boarded out for sweepers in ago match-ups but ive overall been pretty pleasantly surprised by it.
What are people's thoughts of running spell pierce main board. For me I have run 2 and have loved it. Granted its a dead draw late game, but early its a beast. Playing a turn 4 geist with pierce backup is just devastating vs control. I also feel like its more of a legacy staple so people don't play around it nearly as much as they do snare,remand/leak, and cryptic. Granted it often gets boarded out for sweepers in ago match-ups but ive overall been pretty pleasantly surprised by it.
I think the question is Spell Pierce vs. Spell Snare vs. Mana Leak, and right now I'm still leaning towards mana leak main and spell snare side. Leak just hits more early, and the main scenario where pierce shines is ONLY that play of turn 4 geist with 1 blue open, and that isn't enough for it not to hit creatures for me.
The other time I feel that spell snare/spell pierce shine over leak is when you are on the draw as your draw on opponent's turn 2 play, but the main thing you want to hit there is a 2 drop (Bob, Goyf, BB, Melira, which means snare works better and MAY have relevance late game. The only matchup I really like spell pierce in is splinter twin, as it allows for you to play your geist on the play on turn 4 and hopefully trick them into dropping twin turn 4...
The biggest changes I've made were to my sideboard. I really expect GY decks to make a come back, so I probably want two Relic of Progenitus' but for now this is what I'm testing and it's working out fine.
A few things I'm testing: Stormbreath instead of Thundermaw. Pro white might be an issue for Naya, and it's a 4/4 with haste. Double win. On the other hand, Thundermaw is the same CMC, haste, 5/5, and his ETB effect might end up being pretty powerful. Undecided on this one.
Timely Reinforcements vs Relic of Progenitus. One of these is likely getting dropped to make the other a 2 of.
I've been having pretty good time testing against Zoo on Cockatrice, but as always the skill level on that game is lower than average.
How are the threads working for you?
i kinda have a soft spot for the card, so im interested in seeing if its a good inclusion as it was before decay.
Also, with the meta taking the shape it is right now, i think thundermaw might be the better of the two, but im not really sure.
What are people's thoughts of running spell pierce main board. For me I have run 2 and have loved it. Granted its a dead draw late game, but early its a beast. Playing a turn 4 geist with pierce backup is just devastating vs control. I also feel like its more of a legacy staple so people don't play around it nearly as much as they do snare,remand/leak, and cryptic. Granted it often gets boarded out for sweepers in ago match-ups but ive overall been pretty pleasantly surprised by it.
I think the question is Spell Pierce vs. Spell Snare vs. Mana Leak, and right now I'm still leaning towards mana leak main and spell snare side. Leak just hits more early, and the main scenario where pierce shines is ONLY that play of turn 4 geist with 1 blue open, and that isn't enough for it not to hit creatures for me.
The other time I feel that spell snare/spell pierce shine over leak is when you are on the draw as your draw on opponent's turn 2 play, but the main thing you want to hit there is a 2 drop (Bob, Goyf, BB, Melira, which means snare works better and MAY have relevance late game. The only matchup I really like spell pierce in is splinter twin, as it allows for you to play your geist on the play on turn 4 and hopefully trick them into dropping twin turn 4...
I have found Pierce useful specifically against GBx where you can interrupt their turn 2 Liliana when you are on the draw game 2, and also for Birthing Pod against Melira in the same scenario. But now that DRS is gone, I'd be very surprised if I saw Liliana on turn 2. Spell Snare, while always having been excellent, may be even better now that the 2cmc danger cards like goyf and Bitterblossom will be coming down predictably on turn 2, and the 3 cmc on turn 3. This means you can use Mana Leak (instead of Pierce) to get the Liliana when on the draw now that their mana accelerator is gone.
The biggest changes I've made were to my sideboard. I really expect GY decks to make a come back, so I probably want two Relic of Progenitus' but for now this is what I'm testing and it's working out fine.
A few things I'm testing: Stormbreath instead of Thundermaw. Pro white might be an issue for Naya, and it's a 4/4 with haste. Double win. On the other hand, Thundermaw is the same CMC, haste, 5/5, and his ETB effect might end up being pretty powerful. Undecided on this one.
Timely Reinforcements vs Relic of Progenitus. One of these is likely getting dropped to make the other a 2 of.
I've been having pretty good time testing against Zoo on Cockatrice, but as always the skill level on that game is lower than average.
How are the threads working for you?
i kinda have a soft spot for the card, so im interested in seeing if its a good inclusion as it was before decay.
Also, with the meta taking the shape it is right now, i think thundermaw might be the better of the two, but im not really sure.
I'm really leaning toward Thundermaw here, although I suppose it would depend on the frequency of seeing Zoo as opposed to Fae. Stormbreath definitely has more staying power against Zoo, but who knows, after seeing Geist, they might board out some number of Paths because honestly, if they Path your Snapcaster(him and Colonnade would be their only targets) , that's hardly the worst thing for you. And then against Fae, it's pretty obvious how brutal Thundermaw is. Even if they have Scion out, down it goes, and then down all the BB tokens go. In addition, the frequency of seeing Lingering Souls can only go up as more GY shenanigans come back into the meta, another compelling argument for running Thundermaw.
I should've gotten around to picking up a pair of Threads, especially since I see GBx in my meta a lot. And like someone mentioned earlier, if they see Geists game 1, most likely they are boarding out most Decays, unless they anticipate the Threads coming in. Haven't tested them but in theory, they seem great.
Threads never disappointed me against Jund. Abrupt Decay doesn't hit much against our deck, so they usually sided them out. Even Game3 Threads is pretty much the only target Decay has... so I always still kept those in. If they want to water down their deck with Abrupt Decays because I'm running threads, go right ahead man.
I bring in Threads against Zoo. With a Sacred Foundry on board Threads nets us a 3/3, and it still steals a Goyf. It's a good card as a 2 of, I like it.
I'm comfortable considering Tron a bad matchup and being OK with that. Their endgame of Eye is just better than anything we can do. If they Karn and kill a land, you've got Bolts and Cliques to kill it off. If they Wurmcoil, you've got Paths and Bolt-Snap-Bolt. They can't reliably beat a Geist.
I bring in Mindcensors post board and plan to kill them early. They have good turns from 3-5 and then again from about 8 onward, and it's in that middle area where you've got to be sure you kill them.
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I prefer mindscensor as a more universal answer rather than any amount of LD. It slows them down but can be used against Pod and scapeshift (effectively 'counters' it). I also dislike stone/molten rain as they're only good at slowing them down a tad and salt tends to be a bit narrow as it can't do double duty like molten/stone rain.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I prefer mindscensor as a more universal answer rather than any amount of LD. It slows them down but can be used against Pod and scapeshift (effectively 'counters' it). I also dislike stone/molten rain as they're only good at slowing them down a tad and salt tends to be a bit narrow as it can't do double duty like molten/stone rain.
What? Sowing Salt owns Tron and definately pulls double duty if you end the tron set up. That is 4 Lands gone? Snapcaster says hello with it again on the search lands or Grove the Burnwillows. One in the side board plus Mindscensor seems fine. I would have lost to tron without 1 or 2 Sowing Salt.
I prefer mindscensor as a more universal answer rather than any amount of LD. It slows them down but can be used against Pod and scapeshift (effectively 'counters' it). I also dislike stone/molten rain as they're only good at slowing them down a tad and salt tends to be a bit narrow as it can't do double duty like molten/stone rain.
What? Sowing Salt owns Tron and definately pulls double duty if you end the tron set up. That is 4 Lands gone? Snapcaster says hello with it again on the search lands or Grove the Burnwillows. One in the side board plus Mindscensor seems fine. I would have lost to tron without 1 or 2 Sowing Salt.
I have played with sowing salt a lot and it has done a lot but I still always lose, I just have no pressure and they just kill me with a wurmcoil.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I prefer mindscensor as a more universal answer rather than any amount of LD. It slows them down but can be used against Pod and scapeshift (effectively 'counters' it). I also dislike stone/molten rain as they're only good at slowing them down a tad and salt tends to be a bit narrow as it can't do double duty like molten/stone rain.
What? Sowing Salt owns Tron and definately pulls double duty if you end the tron set up. That is 4 Lands gone? Snapcaster says hello with it again on the search lands or Grove the Burnwillows. One in the side board plus Mindscensor seems fine. I would have lost to tron without 1 or 2 Sowing Salt.
I have played with sowing salt a lot and it has done a lot but I still always lose, I just have no pressure and they just kill me with a wurmcoil.
Do you never draw a Path to Exile? Maybe it's just the few times I've played it, but they either explode off the bat or I grind them out. Granted like I said, I haven't played the matchup very often.
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Current Decks:
Modern
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Legacy
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
anyone have any advice for running a straight stock (updated) UW midrange list? what are some pros/cons to the UWr lists? considering jumping in, thanks!
Ok maybe and I also concede I may be playing the deck wrong. But I have played tron vs. sowing salt UWr 10+ times and I have always lost when it goes off. They just kill me when I have no pressure.
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Currently Playing:
Modern: RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy: UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander: UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Free Splinter Twin and Stoneforge Mystic
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I think it is time for us to play a 2-3 pillar of flame from the side. I have a feeling we will be seeing a lot of Kitchen Finks (jund players might play this card), and it is pretty good vs Pod decks too.
Draw is bad?
My 180 Modern Bordered Only Cube
In the long run, I feel like a good jund player could get the jump on us via lili stripping gas from our hands or killing our geists and now that Jund is weaker and decks have returned that we can matchup well against, I think we are poised to take over...
Sadly, that means we'll be next to get hit by the banhammer
UWRMiraclesRWU
Modern
UWRControlRWU
Standard
Ummm no...
Trade Thread
I think the question is Spell Pierce vs. Spell Snare vs. Mana Leak, and right now I'm still leaning towards mana leak main and spell snare side. Leak just hits more early, and the main scenario where pierce shines is ONLY that play of turn 4 geist with 1 blue open, and that isn't enough for it not to hit creatures for me.
The other time I feel that spell snare/spell pierce shine over leak is when you are on the draw as your draw on opponent's turn 2 play, but the main thing you want to hit there is a 2 drop (Bob, Goyf, BB, Melira, which means snare works better and MAY have relevance late game. The only matchup I really like spell pierce in is splinter twin, as it allows for you to play your geist on the play on turn 4 and hopefully trick them into dropping twin turn 4...
How are the threads working for you?
i kinda have a soft spot for the card, so im interested in seeing if its a good inclusion as it was before decay.
Also, with the meta taking the shape it is right now, i think thundermaw might be the better of the two, but im not really sure.
At the same time, that would probably be overpowered in multiple formats...
I have found Pierce useful specifically against GBx where you can interrupt their turn 2 Liliana when you are on the draw game 2, and also for Birthing Pod against Melira in the same scenario. But now that DRS is gone, I'd be very surprised if I saw Liliana on turn 2. Spell Snare, while always having been excellent, may be even better now that the 2cmc danger cards like goyf and Bitterblossom will be coming down predictably on turn 2, and the 3 cmc on turn 3. This means you can use Mana Leak (instead of Pierce) to get the Liliana when on the draw now that their mana accelerator is gone.
I'm really leaning toward Thundermaw here, although I suppose it would depend on the frequency of seeing Zoo as opposed to Fae. Stormbreath definitely has more staying power against Zoo, but who knows, after seeing Geist, they might board out some number of Paths because honestly, if they Path your Snapcaster(him and Colonnade would be their only targets) , that's hardly the worst thing for you. And then against Fae, it's pretty obvious how brutal Thundermaw is. Even if they have Scion out, down it goes, and then down all the BB tokens go. In addition, the frequency of seeing Lingering Souls can only go up as more GY shenanigans come back into the meta, another compelling argument for running Thundermaw.
I should've gotten around to picking up a pair of Threads, especially since I see GBx in my meta a lot. And like someone mentioned earlier, if they see Geists game 1, most likely they are boarding out most Decays, unless they anticipate the Threads coming in. Haven't tested them but in theory, they seem great.
UWRUWR Midrange/GeistRWU
Retired
GWBMelira PodBWG
have we also decided that a single 5 mana curve topper is where we want to be at?
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
I bring in Threads against Zoo. With a Sacred Foundry on board Threads nets us a 3/3, and it still steals a Goyf. It's a good card as a 2 of, I like it.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
I bring in Mindcensors post board and plan to kill them early. They have good turns from 3-5 and then again from about 8 onward, and it's in that middle area where you've got to be sure you kill them.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
What? Sowing Salt owns Tron and definately pulls double duty if you end the tron set up. That is 4 Lands gone? Snapcaster says hello with it again on the search lands or Grove the Burnwillows. One in the side board plus Mindscensor seems fine. I would have lost to tron without 1 or 2 Sowing Salt.
Multiplayer Decks- Memnarch - Animar, Soul of Elements - Zur, the Enchanter - Atraxa, Praetors' Voice - Food Chain Tazri - Teysa Karlov
Modern BUMill and Bant Spirits.
Thank you Xenphire for the signature!
I have played with sowing salt a lot and it has done a lot but I still always lose, I just have no pressure and they just kill me with a wurmcoil.
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR
Do you never draw a Path to Exile? Maybe it's just the few times I've played it, but they either explode off the bat or I grind them out. Granted like I said, I haven't played the matchup very often.
Modern Warp / UR Control / UR Storm / Naya Breachshift / ElectroBalance
Solidarity / Lands / Sneak and Show / Grixis Delver / Reanimator / Belcher / Storm / Dredge
Modern:
RUGScapeshift[RUG...Occasionally with goyfs
RUGTarmotwinRUG(RIP)
Legacy:
UWxuwr miracles and stonebladeUWx
Commander:
UWRShu Yun/Ruhan SmashUWR