MTG Salvation

Quote from MeinKampfire

I like Relic over RiP because it cantrips, and is easier to cast.

I know the format has always had a huge hard-on for artifact hate, but I think that Enchantment hate will show up now as well thanks to Bitterblossom. So I'd rather have the hate that cantrips.

Is Threads of Disloyalty good anymore? It does net us a 3/3 if our land base is correct, still steals Goyf... But would I just rather kill those creatures instead now? I think Timely Reinforcements would just be more useful. Especially since it's Snapcaster-able.

ltj999's DeckMagic OnlineOCTGN2ApprenticeBuy These Cards
	Sideboard (15) 1x Batterskull 1x Celestial Purge 1x Counterflux 1x Engineered Explosives 1x Path to Exile 2x Relic of Progenitus 2x Stone Rain 1x Supreme Verdict 1x Thundermaw Hellkite 2x Timely Reinforcements 2x Wear / Tear

That's what my side looks like right now. Stone Rain is still the flex spot that might be dropped for Stony Silence. Still need more testing on that one.

I like RIP as it seems that Relic is much easier to play around, i.e. they can get you to sac it to a major threat opening them back up again. RIP just totally shuts them down cold unless they have enchantment hate to deal with it.

Also why 2 timley? I have gone with 2 counterflux as storm seems to be a real problem. Maybe I just don't have the experience yet playing vs storm to know what to counter to help them get towards the magical fizzle win?

My issue with brining in GY hate against Melira Pod is that Snapcaster is the best card we have, and Grafdiffer's completely hoses Snapcaster.

Melira Pod is still a pretty rough match up for me, but maybe I just don't know how to play it... I usually side out Geist in the match and bring in the extra Thundermaw I keep in the side and get in beats through the air and burn them, while hopefully countering Finks. That means killing all 2 drops on site, or countering Pod.

Damn, I forgot about that. Rest in Peace hoses Snapy as well. At least Grafdiggers cage only costs 1.

Anyone have thoughts on delver in new meta?

Delver seems mehhh to me. GOST hits harder as does not dies to targeted removal. If Pod gets nasty and I have to run G. Cage; I might kick out Snappy for Delver, but that's 4 cards in the side board for grave yard hate.

Our cretures:
Thundermaw Hellkite x1
Giest of Saint Traft x4
Snapcaster Mage x4
Vendilion Clique x2-3
Restoration Angel x1-2

The only ceatures that change are the V. Clique and Restoration Angel. Would you cut anything else for Delver? I don't see it.

Delver? without ponder or pre ordain? using what? serum visions? no thank you, i will keep beating with geist and clique.

In the gy hate issue, it has been discussed here already, the 2 best optios are rip and relic, and which one youplay is up to personal preference. I suppose you can play cage, but it doesnt hit goyf, it doesnt hit ooze, it doesnt hit living end, and it does next to nothing vs gifts and loam strategies.

Rhinne is right. The reason Delver left the format was partially due to the lack of being able to flip it. You need to have better guarantees and Serum Visions is bad. Delver really didn't want to play it, and they didn't. And then it was problematic because they obviously want something to help flip him. If you can't reliably flip him on turn 3 then it's a huge problem for consistency. I just wouldn't want to play Delver really, especially in this format with aggressive creature decks like Zoo.

Relic is the better answer to me and Rhine is right about G. Cage doing nothing to Goyf. I don't want to hoze my graveyard until I can abuse Path/C. Purge with snapcaster mage. I would have lost against pod if my yard was useless.

Hope no one needed Threads of Disloyalty as it is $25-27 now.

Quote from Wraith223

Relic is the better answer to me and Rhine is right about G. Cage doing nothing to Goyf. I don't want to hoze my graveyard until I can abuse Path/C. Purge with snapcaster mage. I would have lost against pod if my yard was useless.

Hope no one needed Threads of Disloyalty as it is $25-27 now.

It's that expensive? Haha what. Good thing I had two from last season still. I'm not even sure I want to keep running the card. :|

Threads is awsome as grabbig a 4/5 goyf is easy now that Deathrite Shaman is gone. Bitterblossum will add tribal to that. Threads stealing goyf or whatever can be the blocker that gets you to win the race. I stole V. Seer from Pod to stahl the game so I could win.

I need em maybe two or something. I'll see how they pan out. Honestly though, it seems best vs grindy/midrangy decks where threads can be a tempo/card advantage swing big enough to win the game. It seems a little slow vs aggro though.

Wow, that jumped incredibly fast. Glad I got three when they weren't even known I suppose. I still like running it personally. It's dynamite against Zoo (although it'll probably just net you a basic mana a lot of the time haha).

Quote from iamghost

i never played threads, but i can't convince myself it is a card i'd want to run in my SB instead of a couple of my actual 15s. Please, somebody try to convince me.

Would you play a sorcery that was "1UU: Destroy target Tarmogoyf. Put a Tarmogoyf into play"? It's a pretty awesome spell against jund where almost all their creatures are 2cmc or less. Getting their blocker out of the way so Geist can swing is priceless.

But it also turns on their abrupt decays.

Snare? vs zoo? Really? To hit what? one of their only 4 goyfs? While the kitty and her friends bash your face in?
No, R is still solid, helix, bolt and electrolize are all excelent cards. You also get thundermaw and stormbreath, and a few sb goodies like wear/tear, combust, pyroclasm, volcanic fallout, and more.

Restoration angel is too slow vs zoo,and while finks is good, zoo runs 4 paths too, so yeah, good luck with that.

Not a big fan of Helix too (usually it's just a RW Bolt), but I think the life gain will be really important if Zoo becomes a big part of the meta.

If you are playing timely reinforcements over helix because of its interaction with snapcaster, that doesn't make any sense as one requires 4 mana, and the other 5...
Also, you don't want to rely on timely reinforcements against Zoo necessarily...all it does it provides chump blockers to slow your demise, and doesn't actually get anything off the board. You want to be using a helix as soon as you see that Wild Nacatl or Kird Ape so that you aren't taking unnecessary damage, so you may not even be lower than your opponent as zoo tends to fetch/shock quite a bit...

I was already in love with lightning helix and path to exile before this change, and now they just that much more necessary with the meta...

Well, yeah, Timely will also be good, but Helix is an instant and costs less (so you can Snap it back earlier too). That said, straight UW can be good, but Bolt is awesome and red gives access to some really good SB tools.

There is no evidence that tribal zoo will be more popular than stright naya, so tribal flames isnt a valid target. Also, zoo doesnt run ooze. Goyf and helix are valid targets, but they can very well be hit by leak, which also hits other targets, suchs as KoTR, or geist (if they run it, kinda unlikely). Thalia might be a concern, but i dont really care about quasali pridemage, actually if they bring mi in, all the better for me.

On the other hand, electrolyze is a house vs affinity and jund, is good vs pod, tokens and fae, and is decent in the mirror and vs twin.
I like spell snare a lot, particularly now that fae is coming back into the game, but i would never play it over electrolyze,and i certainly wouldnt keep it in vs zoo.

On the matter of helix vs timely . . . i dont know what to say really. I dont even know whats stopping you from playing both. Run helix main, and timely side, since its only really good vs aggro strategies.

I always liked 1-2 Timely SB if my aggro matchup was a problem. It's SO good. Then again, I was always playing decks with clocks, so it buys a lot of time. It's insane against Affinity.

Rhinne is making a lot of sense. I actually haven't changed my main board yet. However, it's possible that I want -1 Electrolyze and +1 Mana Leak.



The biggest changes I've made were to my sideboard. I really expect GY decks to make a come back, so I probably want two Relic of Progenitus' but for now this is what I'm testing and it's working out fine.

A few things I'm testing: Stormbreath instead of Thundermaw. Pro white might be an issue for Naya, and it's a 4/4 with haste. Double win. On the other hand, Thundermaw is the same CMC, haste, 5/5, and his ETB effect might end up being pretty powerful. Undecided on this one.

Timely Reinforcements vs Relic of Progenitus. One of these is likely getting dropped to make the other a 2 of.

I've been having pretty good time testing against Zoo on Cockatrice, but as always the skill level on that game is lower than average.