And know, you guys think this unban will make deck get another take?
I think artifact hate you be in all part, replacing hate grave, cause batterskull and swords.
In first view, o think to try run a full set of Pyrite Spellbomb to help kill SFM (and it can be a draw and help whir in worst scenario), and i see spellskite to be good again to protect combo.
I see some list with urza + SFM, but not totally sold on this yet.
PS.: i dont remember to see a discussion on this (probably have a discussion), but Tribute Mage still slow?
Haven't tested my Whirza/Snow-and-Creatures-Whir/etc. deck against any SFM deck yet (I suspect UW Stoneblade will be one of the first variants built, though), but right now, I'm not concerned about SFM as an opposing threat. There's always Ensnaring Bridge to cut off whatever's equipped from attacking, and then we have an infinite combo and they likely don't. Unlike Hogaak, Batterskull is only swinging on Turn 4 and has only 4 power. Swords suffer from a similar speed and power problem.
I think the biggest impact SFM will make is improving other decks' match-ups against aggro, thus skewing which match-ups we face. We're one of the decks that should be able to go over the top of SFM without even trying.
I do think control decks will be able to close out games quicker. Sfm with force backup seems though to deal with.
Also now that graveyard hate will be less prevalent, I guess people will look to stoney silence/ouphe to prevent the artifact decks from going off
Is it time to think about abrupt decay again? (it kills all the hate, sfm and swords through counter magic)
4-Colour Whirza takes down the first post ban SCG Open! List looks solid. Meta looked healthy. Think there's gonna be a lot of people hopping on the Whirza bandwagon? What's the approach to the mirror match?
There already are quite a few people hopping on. The mirror is pretty fun, because you can go a few different ways with it. I try to put in as many prison cards as possible, and either needle foundry ASAP, or if I can go off first, then great. I usually find my opponent making a few mistakes, but that will go down once everyone gets more and more practice. Plague Engineer is probably the best card in the mirror.
So already a few spoilers from Throne are looking good for us. Witching Well seems like it could be a 2 of or so, as it makes a pretty decent turn one play to hit land drops, helps enable metalcraft, taps for whir or urza, and draws cards late. And the simic 3-drop walker makes artifact tokens with its +2, can turn stuff like astrolabes into 3/3's, and can likewise turn problem creatures and artifacts into 3/3's. It's also a good card against burn, as the food tokens yield 3 life and the loyalty is so high.
Looking forward to seeing how much further the deck list evolves. Some players still main and side Teferi, Time Raveler, Spine of Ish Sah, or in my case Ghirapur Aether Grid. Graveyard hate is up in the air i think as well. Dredge won the classic so we'll have to wait and see how that deck does moving forward. I still do not have Scalding Tarn and still do not plan on taking the plunge anytime soon. That's a dang car payment right at their current price. Making do with what i have. it gets a little wonky at times but the sheer fun of the deck more than makes up for it. My Astrolabes are just a little bit more important than those with full playsets of Tarn's!
Yeah, absolutely. I've been on about 3 serum visions over the stars. I was never on stars, even post-urza, because I always found there was too much tension between needing their draw ability and wanting to keep an artifact around. Witching Well, like astrolabe, yields enough of a payoff I believe on ETB that you're happy to have its effect along with the artifact left over. It's basically like a serum visions that swaps the random draw 1 (usually less important early game than the scry 2) for a later game draw 2, all while giving you an artifact in the meantime. And then it also has the added benefit of being a good late-game topdeck, reading scry 2 + draw 2, all for only 1 more generic mana than Glimmer of Genius.
Witching well also plays very nice with an urza in play, digging deeper to an actual useful hit if you are just spinning without infinite while providing one mana for the next activation
Tried Oko, Thief of Crowns on Cockatrice against some decks. I'm not completely sold on whether he's better than Teferi, Time Raveler, but he is quite fun to play with and fairly synergistic with the rest of the deck.
Oko is nuts with Goblin Engineer...except Goblin Engineer keeps dying and getting smacked by graveyard hate. Swinging random artifacts-turned-Elks into planeswalkers is quite strong as long as you don't have Ensnaring Bridge up. I think I turned opposing artifacts and creatures into Elks more often, though--he's like a bunch of Pithing Needles in that way. The exchange ability is less useful than I expected in this deck, though. Oko's also great with Ghirapur Aether Grid, but that pair rarely comes up.
Sometimes, I wish I had Liquimetal Coating in the deck to help turn any problem permanent into an Elk, but I know I can't fit in a nearly useless card to support a 1-of.
Thanks for testing him out, Lectrys. I will probably put him in as a 1-of when the set is released.
Interesting that you brought up Coating. I wonder if there's a deck that plays him and Karn. If you throw Saheeli in there, too, and Altar of the brood, you have yourself a weird (bad) combo deck.
Emry definitely looks like a new friend...though being an almost-Goblin Engineer when Goblin Engineer arguably has the better ETB effect and is increasingly being played as only a 3-of (likely due to graveyard hate) means she may not see that much play.
Wishclaw Talisman looks pretty powerful in this deck, as we can definitely use the artifact and we have so many ways to break it. Sac it to Goblin Engineer/Thopter Foundry/Sai, Master Thopterist in response to its ability, bounce it with Teferi, Time Raveler, tutor for the last part of our infinite combo (yes, that's us Whirring for Urza)...I've found it to be pretty powerful in testing as long as I can break it (tutoring for Teferi TR first goes a long way).
yees, i definitely think Wishclaw Talisman is 1 or 2off auto include to find the last piece we need. But i think we dont have time to bounce with Teferi cause when it resolve opp gains control of talisman, but can sac in the stack. For now we got good pieces that can make the deck more consistent:
Witching well
Emry, Lurker of the Loch
Wishclaw Talisman
Now, if we find the right slot is the "problem" but i'n in hype
I really like Emry. While the ETB on her is not as good as goblin, being able to cast for U on turn 2 (like after an astrolabe and witching well) is really nice. And the ceiling for her ETB is even higher than engineer, so occasionally she will bin you a sword and something else useful. She plays well with bauble (no mana to get a card/turn), and unlike engineer, she can let you recur X cost things like explosives and chalice, and can recur stuff greater than CMC 3, although that is of questionable utility with our current builds. Definitely a 1-2 of in every build going forward, given her casting cost and lack of mana on her activated.
Wishclaw is a little silly, and hard to evaluate. I think it's probably a 1-of for us, but will get boarded out a LOT. Obviously makes whir more valuable, and random silver bullet type things. Talisman plays nicely with Karn, the Great Creator (ugh, that card), too. I've been testing Karn out as a 1-of maindeck walker without lattice, and he's OK as a must-answer threat.
As always, before the entire set is even released, posting a hypthetical list with the new tasty spoilers:
I really like Emry. While the ETB on her is not as good as goblin, being able to cast for U on turn 2 (like after an astrolabe and witching well) is really nice. And the ceiling for her ETB is even higher than engineer, so occasionally she will bin you a sword and something else useful. She plays well with bauble (no mana to get a card/turn), and unlike engineer, she can let you recur X cost things like explosives and chalice, and can recur stuff greater than CMC 3, although that is of questionable utility with our current builds. Definitely a 1-2 of in every build going forward, given her casting cost and lack of mana on her activated.
Wishclaw is a little silly, and hard to evaluate. I think it's probably a 1-of for us, but will get boarded out a LOT. Obviously makes whir more valuable, and random silver bullet type things. Talisman plays nicely with Karn, the Great Creator (ugh, that card), too. I've been testing Karn out as a 1-of maindeck walker without lattice, and he's OK as a must-answer threat.
As always, before the entire set is even released, posting a hypthetical list with the new tasty spoilers:
1. you don't use Galvanic in main? The first time I saw him, I wasn't totally convinced, but is too good have acess to some kind of answer in main, its kill Liliana and baby karn for example.
2. i cut all fast lands and i'n happy without this.
I just wanted to say that I played Monday night at my local store and went 3-0 with the SCG Dallas List of Harlan Firer. My sideboard was slightly different because I didn't want to break the decks down but it still worked out. I only dropped one day out of the 3 matches. I think his deck list is pretty fined tuned for everything. I did beat Naya Burn, R/W burn and Grixis control that night.
I've continued to test Wishclaw Talisman the last few days. Turns out that it's worth a million bucks in fast match-ups like Dredge or Humans, where tutoring for the last combo piece is key because you can't completely lock their board fast enough, and there's still a chance you can tutor for multiple cards with it (by recurring it after each use).
I also tried pretending Goblin Engineer is Emry, Lurker of the Loch, and while being able to reliably gain CA with her ability is neat and often costing 1 mana is even neater, milling 4 left me with some feel-bads in my increasingly 1-of-filled list. She still seems like a fine 1-2-of, though; I just can't seem to find the space for her, since I still want some sac outlets for Wishclaw.
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I think artifact hate you be in all part, replacing hate grave, cause batterskull and swords.
In first view, o think to try run a full set of Pyrite Spellbomb to help kill SFM (and it can be a draw and help whir in worst scenario), and i see spellskite to be good again to protect combo.
I see some list with urza + SFM, but not totally sold on this yet.
PS.: i dont remember to see a discussion on this (probably have a discussion), but Tribute Mage still slow?
I think the biggest impact SFM will make is improving other decks' match-ups against aggro, thus skewing which match-ups we face. We're one of the decks that should be able to go over the top of SFM without even trying.
Also now that graveyard hate will be less prevalent, I guess people will look to stoney silence/ouphe to prevent the artifact decks from going off
Is it time to think about abrupt decay again? (it kills all the hate, sfm and swords through counter magic)
3 Goblin Engineer
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
Spells (6)
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Galvanic Blast
3 Whir of Invention
Artifacts (27)
2 Chromatic Star
1 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Ichor Wellspring
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Welding Jar
4 Mox Opal
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
5 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Breeding Pool
4 Polluted Delta
1 Flooded Strand
1 Spire of Industry
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Prismatic Vista
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Damping Sphere
2 Assassin's Trophy
1 Abrupt Decay
1 Ceremonious Rejection
2 Negate
1 Fatal Push
1 Dead of Winter
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Collective Brutality
2 Thoughtseize
Oko is nuts with Goblin Engineer...except Goblin Engineer keeps dying and getting smacked by graveyard hate. Swinging random artifacts-turned-Elks into planeswalkers is quite strong as long as you don't have Ensnaring Bridge up. I think I turned opposing artifacts and creatures into Elks more often, though--he's like a bunch of Pithing Needles in that way. The exchange ability is less useful than I expected in this deck, though. Oko's also great with Ghirapur Aether Grid, but that pair rarely comes up.
Sometimes, I wish I had Liquimetal Coating in the deck to help turn any problem permanent into an Elk, but I know I can't fit in a nearly useless card to support a 1-of.
Interesting that you brought up Coating. I wonder if there's a deck that plays him and Karn. If you throw Saheeli in there, too, and Altar of the brood, you have yourself a weird (bad) combo deck.
2U
Legendary Creature - Merfolk Wizard
This spell casts 1 less to cast for each artifact you control.
When Emry, Lurker of the Loch enters the battlefield, put the top four cards of your library into your graveyard.
T: Choose target artifact card in your graveyard. You may cast that card this turn.
- we got new friend?
Wishclaw Talisman looks pretty powerful in this deck, as we can definitely use the artifact and we have so many ways to break it. Sac it to Goblin Engineer/Thopter Foundry/Sai, Master Thopterist in response to its ability, bounce it with Teferi, Time Raveler, tutor for the last part of our infinite combo (yes, that's us Whirring for Urza)...I've found it to be pretty powerful in testing as long as I can break it (tutoring for Teferi TR first goes a long way).
Witching well
Emry, Lurker of the Loch
Wishclaw Talisman
Now, if we find the right slot is the "problem" but i'n in hype
Wishclaw is a little silly, and hard to evaluate. I think it's probably a 1-of for us, but will get boarded out a LOT. Obviously makes whir more valuable, and random silver bullet type things. Talisman plays nicely with Karn, the Great Creator (ugh, that card), too. I've been testing Karn out as a 1-of maindeck walker without lattice, and he's OK as a must-answer threat.
As always, before the entire set is even released, posting a hypthetical list with the new tasty spoilers:
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
3 Witching Well
1 Pithing Needle
4 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Damping Sphere
1 Wishclaw Talisman
1 Mind Stone
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Creatures: 8
2 Goblin Welder
2 Emry, Lurker of the Loch
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Karn, the Great Creator
Other Spells: 3
3 Whir of Invention
Land: 20
4 Prismatic Vista
2 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Polluted Delta
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
6 Snow-Covered Island
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Spirebluff Canal
You are using big teff? and the goblin?
some questions:
1. you don't use Galvanic in main? The first time I saw him, I wasn't totally convinced, but is too good have acess to some kind of answer in main, its kill Liliana and baby karn for example.
2. i cut all fast lands and i'n happy without this.
I also tried pretending Goblin Engineer is Emry, Lurker of the Loch, and while being able to reliably gain CA with her ability is neat and often costing 1 mana is even neater, milling 4 left me with some feel-bads in my increasingly 1-of-filled list. She still seems like a fine 1-2-of, though; I just can't seem to find the space for her, since I still want some sac outlets for Wishclaw.