Solid advice. I have been pretty resistant to maindeck Grid because you can't whir for it, but I doubt I'll ever whir for grinding station anyway. In which case either spine or aether grid are probably better options. I'll give grid a try
I’ve seen earlier versions running Time Sieve, how come it was removed? Feels like a great secondary win-con that can also get us an extra turn with the help of Sai in a pinch.
Urza is basically a copy of Time Sieve, making you infinite thopters and infinite life. If you had an Aether Grid you can utilize his ability to find it and win instantly. Aether Grid also is fine if you draw it normally, while Time Sieve does nothing unless you have the combo and 5 mana.
I’ve seen earlier versions running Time Sieve, how come it was removed? Feels like a great secondary win-con that can also get us an extra turn with the help of Sai in a pinch.
Urza is basically a copy of Time Sieve, making you infinite thopters and infinite life. If you had an Aether Grid you can utilize his ability to find it and win instantly. Aether Grid also is fine if you draw it normally, while Time Sieve does nothing unless you have the combo and 5 mana.
But you can't Whir of Invention for Urza, and Whirring for Time Sieve has saved me several times. Man, does Urza only inconsistently come to my hand in the Snow builds from my experience.
Time Sieve is a poor win con with Urza, though, as it forces you to play Academy Ruins, yet it still screws you over if it's the last card you exiled but you already made your land drop for the turn.
From the limited sample size of games I've played, I've never felt inconsistency. I feel like we see more than enough cards due to bauble (+ careful fetching), astrolabe, well spring, engineer cycling.
I've been thinking about building a list with Board the Weatherlight, since it hits everything we want, but I feel engineer is so much more powerful in the 2 slot.
I ran Board the Weatherlight from the second it was spoiled up until Engineer came out. It is just better. Weatherlight was great, but was also air far too often. For 1 mana, it would be fantastic. As is, it struggles when we would rather play any of a dozen two drops.
I also kind of wanted to run board, but the 2 slot is jammed like smagoooo mentioned, and engineer gives you a body and threatens card advantage over the long haul. The only list I would run board in is probably something like a dice factory or more rampy build with both Urza and Karn.
@Lectrys - Time Sieve was a good route to take against certain decks like tron, storm, and other combo. But now we run a 4-of that is a much better infinite engine, with all sorts of usefulness in pretty much every non hyper-fast matchup like infect or neoform. So while Urza can't be whirred for, I think assembling (thopter+sword + 1 of 4 urza) happens as often as assembling (thopter+sword + 1 of 3-4 whir or time sieve). And Urza accomplishes the infinite much, much faster after drawing the pieces. So we're infiniting just as often against those decks that we abo****ely need to as we did in the past with sieve, and when we do its happening more quickly, meaning we're not really "losing" any infinite points. You could run a sieve, but since we're already doing as well or better against tron and combo, doing so would dilute your plan against the rest of the field.
Has anybody been testing Executioner's Capsule again with Sai + Goblin Engineer being a maindeck package? I know the 'non-black' clause misses a decent amount of things, but it seems promising.
Also, what's the verdict on Spine in the main vs side vs none at all? I still can't decide for myself looking at the pros and cons from each side.
So I have been playing this deck last Monday night and went 2-1. Last night I played it against and went 3-0 and never dropping a games. The deck felt so good and was winning from so many angles.
2-0, Abzan walker deck ( basically azan control)
2-0, Mono blue control ( Snapcaster, thing in the ice, Pteramander deck with counters)
2-0, Mono red Phoenix,
I don't think I want to make any changes as of right now but I wanted to give you my updates.
Bold, your teferi and Paths aren’t castable under Stony, I’d recommend a hallowed fountain or at least some spires. Also, instead of 4 bolts maybe 2/2 galvanic split for the humans matchup? Have you found 6 removal spells necessary?
I agree on time sieve; being a dead card so often negates the minimal advantage it offers when going off. Grids floor is much higher while still being an auto-win effectively. Still not certain if main deck is necessary though.
Is anyone still playing damping sphere. Its been underwhelming for me recently. Could just be me going through the motions and not getting ANY matchups its useful in lol
I've played this list through 4 leagues online, 3-2, 5-0, 4-1, 5-0. Edit: Whoop, another 5-0 tonight! This deck is just humming in this meta, and it feels so powerful and flexible. Absolutely stomped all over Hogaak and Neoform with turn 1 needles. Going four colors lightly has been just fine. Aether Grid continues to be sweet and puts pressure on opponents' removal. Dead of Winter is sometimes really good, so I may want to go up to 3. Meddling Mage hasn't been much of a factor, so I may cut one for the sweeper, but it does help shore up the degenerate matches even more. Needle continues to just be so important.
I'm not really sure what is with the sudden love for Sai, and other lists popping up on 5-0 dumps packing 3. He is always decent, but never amazing, and only truly good in grindy matchups or to stall against humans. I don't think going above 1 maindeck is ideal, but I understand he's never truly dead.
@Smagooo - I still like Damping Sphere main deck. Tron is still really hard, and you don't really want to see the new aria storm, either, without it.
Its nice to see you up to 4 vista, I immediately went up to 3 since I found im mostly fetching basic island and with astrolabe and opal I barely need the shocks. its brilliant. I still prefer spire over fastlands though.
I can definitely get behind the 1 Sai idea. I cut down to 2 awhile ago, and I think 1 is also where I'll end up. Sometimes he's great, but often he's mediocre. And I find I constantly draw both of them.
So far I haven't missed Damping Sphere much, but I run Blood Moon which can work against tron, though I haven't run into Tron in awhile. If you haven't tried blood moon, seriously try it, it's great! It does Blood Moon things and several times it's just won me the game on the spot against decks like Jund or Jeskai. Since we're primarily fetching basics it's easy to run in our deck.
I have been running a witchbane Orb in the side though specifically for Aria of Flame now that Storm and Phoenix are both running it
I'm still on 0 vista myself, but that's just cause I have spent so much money lately on Horizons cards, I can't really justify another $130 for a set of paper copies + the mtgo copies In a little bit I'll probably grab some.
Also, why Deputy of Detention over Detention Sphere? Especially now that Urza and Engineer are around everyone keeps removal in against us, I wonder if Detention Sphere might end up actually dodging more removal than Deputy can.
Deputy only hits opponents stuff where detention sphere hits yours as well. Like in a mirror u could take out their foundrys and leave yours on board same with bridge, urza, thopters, ect
And Deputy being a creature seems to be relevantly good more often than it is bad. For instance, it dodges negate, stubborn denial, spell pierce and dovin's veto. In a war of attrition, it's a body off the top of the deck. Against humans, it costs 3 while Thalia is out, can't be taken by freebooter, and can chump block if need be. It blocks gravecrawlers, and can be killed to exile bridge from below. On the negative side, it does get hit by dead of winter.
Has anyone tried karn, the great creator in the whir slots in the newer versions of the decks? seems like it would make a decent 5/6th urza while also doing a similar job of whir, since it can grab bridge, sword, foundry as well as clock of omens for comboing, mycosynth latice, etc
Has anyone tried karn, the great creator in the whir slots in the newer versions of the decks? seems like it would make a decent 5/6th urza while also doing a similar job of whir, since it can grab bridge, sword, foundry as well as clock of omens for comboing, mycosynth latice, etc
I think Karn is just not needed. I'm not a huge fan of adding more 4 drops, and it also means devoting a bunch of precious sideboard space to a wishboard for Karn. I think to make that worth it you probably need to be running 3 or 4 Karns, and that's just way too many 4 drops in the deck imo, that just aren't really needed.
I think rather than Karn i'd rather play Tezzeret if I wanted a 4 mana walker threat, or I'd possibly even consider Karn, Scion of Urza now that we're not leaning so hard on Ensnaring Bridge like we used to, so more Karnstruct tokens provide a legit path to victory
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But you can't Whir of Invention for Urza, and Whirring for Time Sieve has saved me several times. Man, does Urza only inconsistently come to my hand in the Snow builds from my experience.
Time Sieve is a poor win con with Urza, though, as it forces you to play Academy Ruins, yet it still screws you over if it's the last card you exiled but you already made your land drop for the turn.
I've been thinking about building a list with Board the Weatherlight, since it hits everything we want, but I feel engineer is so much more powerful in the 2 slot.
@Lectrys - Time Sieve was a good route to take against certain decks like tron, storm, and other combo. But now we run a 4-of that is a much better infinite engine, with all sorts of usefulness in pretty much every non hyper-fast matchup like infect or neoform. So while Urza can't be whirred for, I think assembling (thopter+sword + 1 of 4 urza) happens as often as assembling (thopter+sword + 1 of 3-4 whir or time sieve). And Urza accomplishes the infinite much, much faster after drawing the pieces. So we're infiniting just as often against those decks that we abo****ely need to as we did in the past with sieve, and when we do its happening more quickly, meaning we're not really "losing" any infinite points. You could run a sieve, but since we're already doing as well or better against tron and combo, doing so would dilute your plan against the rest of the field.
Also, what's the verdict on Spine in the main vs side vs none at all? I still can't decide for myself looking at the pros and cons from each side.
2-0, Abzan walker deck ( basically azan control)
2-0, Mono blue control ( Snapcaster, thing in the ice, Pteramander deck with counters)
2-0, Mono red Phoenix,
I don't think I want to make any changes as of right now but I wanted to give you my updates.
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
Artifacts (26)
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Ichor Wellspring
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Spellskite
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Whir of Invention
Lands (21)
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
6 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
4 Lightning Bolt
1 spellskite
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Witchbane Orb
2 path to exile
I agree on time sieve; being a dead card so often negates the minimal advantage it offers when going off. Grids floor is much higher while still being an auto-win effectively. Still not certain if main deck is necessary though.
I'm not really sure what is with the sudden love for Sai, and other lists popping up on 5-0 dumps packing 3. He is always decent, but never amazing, and only truly good in grindy matchups or to stall against humans. I don't think going above 1 maindeck is ideal, but I understand he's never truly dead.
@Smagooo - I still like Damping Sphere main deck. Tron is still really hard, and you don't really want to see the new aria storm, either, without it.
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Tormod's Crypt
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
3 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Spellbomb
4 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Damping Sphere
1 Ensnaring Bridge
Instants/Sorceries: 6
2 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
Creatures: 8
3 Goblin Engineer
1 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
Land: 20
4 Prismatic Vista
2 Polluted Delta
2 Flooded Strand
6 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Plains
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Steam Vents
1 Watery Grave
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Spirebluff Canal
2 Teferi, Time Raveler
2 Dead of Winter
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
2 Meddling Mage
2 Deputy of Detention
1 Wear//Tear
2 Unmoored Ego
3 Battle at the Bridge
So far I haven't missed Damping Sphere much, but I run Blood Moon which can work against tron, though I haven't run into Tron in awhile. If you haven't tried blood moon, seriously try it, it's great! It does Blood Moon things and several times it's just won me the game on the spot against decks like Jund or Jeskai. Since we're primarily fetching basics it's easy to run in our deck.
I have been running a witchbane Orb in the side though specifically for Aria of Flame now that Storm and Phoenix are both running it
I'm still on 0 vista myself, but that's just cause I have spent so much money lately on Horizons cards, I can't really justify another $130 for a set of paper copies + the mtgo copies In a little bit I'll probably grab some.
Also, why Deputy of Detention over Detention Sphere? Especially now that Urza and Engineer are around everyone keeps removal in against us, I wonder if Detention Sphere might end up actually dodging more removal than Deputy can.
I think Karn is just not needed. I'm not a huge fan of adding more 4 drops, and it also means devoting a bunch of precious sideboard space to a wishboard for Karn. I think to make that worth it you probably need to be running 3 or 4 Karns, and that's just way too many 4 drops in the deck imo, that just aren't really needed.
I think rather than Karn i'd rather play Tezzeret if I wanted a 4 mana walker threat, or I'd possibly even consider Karn, Scion of Urza now that we're not leaning so hard on Ensnaring Bridge like we used to, so more Karnstruct tokens provide a legit path to victory