Im still playing tezz over sai. Im using tezz and time sieve as my win con. As much as i hate to say it hes largrly useless in the current urza builds since most of the time urza just straight up wins you the game. However ill continue to find a way to slot 2 tezz in the main to avoid the heartbreak of not playing him at all
Something I don't like about Sai is you really have to wait until turn 3 to get a lot of value out of him immediately.
Compared to when I play him in Legacy and Duel Commander with sol lands and he feels like he can take over the game quickly.
His greatest value is in giving the opponent more removal targets so you try to run them out of removal so that something sticks. Once Engineer, Sai or Urza sticks, you are going to be happy.
Got my cards in today from horizons. Goldfisning a few different variants feels really strong (magic is easy with no interaction). I am super excited to play modern night tomorrow! I will report back with the list I go with and how it goes.
So after a frustrating 2 morning leagues with Grixis build, losing 1-4 and 2-3 to just ridiculous nut draws and perfect topdecks, I decided to take a break and test out a Jeskai version featuring the creature sideboard I mentioned earlier:
In my first matchup, turn 1, I crack a blue fetch to get Hallowed Fountain... and realize I accidentally put Glacial Fortress in there instead. Uh, great job there, this should be fun. However, despite my stupid mistake, I proceeded to 5-0. Without my most important shockland. So, yeah, this deck sure is a lot more explosive (if you draw lucky) than it was previously.
As to the grixis/jeskai debate, I still think the grixis sideboard cards are more important. That said, Teferi single-handedly dismantled Ad Nauseum in games 2 and 3, so he may be THE reason to go jeskai. Although, now that I think about it, if I had just drawn Unmoored Ego intead of Teferi the outcomes would have probably been the same.
Loving the discussions here! I’m new to the deck but really enjoy watching it and will start testing it online myself soon. I was wondering once the forum shuts down where can I continue to read and follow the developments?
https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/modern-league-2019-06-14#kanister_- this is the 5-0 deck of his from last friday's 5-0 dump that he based off TheNobody's list. If you click through his twitch video past broadcasts you'll see him playing a UWR variant recently, including a bit today, as well as the Grixis version linked above. I think he's been doing pretty well with the deck overall recently. He went 6-2 in the weekend's modern challenge with a UWR version, you might find it in the results, I dunno exactly where he placed
I just thought I say the UWR shell felt pretty solid last night, I ended up going 2-1 beating infect and GB elves but I lost to the 11 Rack deck in 3 games.
I will say the Mox opal felt weird at times because it took longer to activate.
what about Saheeli, Artífice Sublime over Sai in this build?
I know fly of the thopter is good, but saheeli sometimes is hard to remove then a creature and can copy karnstructor to beatdown
That's a good point about Saheeli copying an urza token. Especially online, when you really need to close out games in a timely manner. I disagree about Saheeli being more sticky than Sai, however. In today's Modern, there's fewer pushes and paths than there are low to the ground creatures ready to swing into a walker. In the end, though, I do think Sai making fliers and drawing cards beats out Saheeli's minus.
I saw a list running a single nexus of fate today. Just to make sure you don't deck yourself and you can close out the game when you get the combo going.
But that seems rather unnecessary?
When you run aether grid, or station or w/e, even if it is the last card in the deck, you insta win?
Nobodys, have u tried your list with a few karns mb? I asked kanister on his stream and he said it wasn't worth it unless you were running 3/4 but I feel it might be. We run a lot of bullets side anyway and he gets them as well as Getty BK something that's possibly been surprised surgicaled game 1. And if your going off and wanna close out the game that turn have a ballista side to snag also there's always lattice.
I also liked the idea of running spine. It's a nice catch all.
I don't have Urzas yet so I fell back to a basic build with 4 Serum Visions and 4 Thoughtseize last night and went 4-0. Still felt very solid.
To the point that I am a bit concerned about the fact that these lists don't have any discard/removal/counters. How much do you miss it?
I don't have Urzas yet so I fell back to a basic build with 4 Serum Visions and 4 Thoughtseize last night and went 4-0. Still felt very solid.
To the point that I am a bit concerned about the fact that these lists don't have any discard/removal/counters. How much do you miss it?
That’s what I was thinking, it feels very much like a combo deck rather than combo/control? Is that the case or am I naive? Should we be considering more control elements?
TBH I didn't really like discard or counterspells before Horizons, so not adopting them post-Horizons has been pretty easy
I dislike discard being a bad top deck late game, and with adding 10-12 new horizons cards to the main it's just hard to justify room for discard. Counterspells I'm more on board with than before, since previously the way they work so poorly with Ensnaring Bridge was awkward, but now I find bridge is something I rarely search up anymore (down to 1 bridge in the main), counterspells are something I would be more likely to play now, but more in the sideboard.
I do see the deck as mostly a combo deck now with a minor prison theme, or at least that's the version I'm seeing as most successful, both with other people having success and my own experiences as well. So any counterspells would mostly be aimed at protecting the combo
So here's my current list, I've been running this shell for a bit now and really like it. Maindeck I feel is quite solid, though I tweak the 1 drop slow around a bit. Sideboard is where most changes happen. This is based off things I've seen Kanister and Zac Elsik running lately, which were of course based off TheNobody's list. This exact 75 I took to my LGS last night, so I've only so far run it through about 4 matches where I went 2-2. I beat Grixis Control and Norin Soul Sisters, while lost to Bridgevine (HOGAAK!!!!) and Infect.
So really my losses where decks that were just really fast, my interaction for something like infect was too few and too slow. Similarly with bridgevine, the game they had a slower hand I was fine, the games with the really fast hands I felt I was close but not quite there.
Changes I might make are swapping one of the needles for a Pyrite Spellbomb or Nihil Spellbomb. Possibly consider cutting one wellspring for something, possibilities are the 4th foundry, the 4th whir, or another one drop probably a spellbomb. I do like having access to at least one Wellspring for that sick Engineer value, but I hate drawing them early. I could even see possibly cutting the bridge, I rarely search for it these days, but I do still like it as a one of. Lastly I'll probably give swapping Grinding Station for Spine of Ish Sah a try. I've been resistant with how expensive Spine is, but there have been places I could have used it well. I do like Grinding Station though, since if it's not winning the game on the spot it can work as a sweet mana engine with Urza and untapping a lot.
Sideboard, I dunno, I'm still all over the place. I like the Leylines for Bridgevine. Blood Moons were a last minute inclusion and they seem just great. Tezz of course is solid, could maybe even cut down to one. Goblin Cratermaker's were something that could hopefully be used vs both tron and creature decks, but they felt REALLY bad vs creature decks, so they could become more bolts or pushes or something. Witchbane Orb was also a last minute inclusion after losing some games online to Aria of Flame, I dunno if it'll stick around
@Systrill - Needle is a lot better vs Hogaak than Nihil spellbomb is. Obviously not in every scenario, but needling Carrion Feeder or Altar usually prevents them from doing their nuttiest things. I would highly recommend dropping the spellbomb for a 3rd needle, dropping the grinding station and the wellspring for an Aether Grid and a spellskite. Grid is just a much better finisher because of its other usefulness, and skite should help vs infect.
Also, needle shuts down neoform combo if you get it in b4 griselbrand, and it also helps against UW control and Druid combo. Needle is just the bees knees in the current meta, in my opinion, which is why I'm running 3 maindeck.
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Compared to when I play him in Legacy and Duel Commander with sol lands and he feels like he can take over the game quickly.
His greatest value is in giving the opponent more removal targets so you try to run them out of removal so that something sticks. Once Engineer, Sai or Urza sticks, you are going to be happy.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
In my first matchup, turn 1, I crack a blue fetch to get Hallowed Fountain... and realize I accidentally put Glacial Fortress in there instead. Uh, great job there, this should be fun. However, despite my stupid mistake, I proceeded to 5-0. Without my most important shockland. So, yeah, this deck sure is a lot more explosive (if you draw lucky) than it was previously.
As to the grixis/jeskai debate, I still think the grixis sideboard cards are more important. That said, Teferi single-handedly dismantled Ad Nauseum in games 2 and 3, so he may be THE reason to go jeskai. Although, now that I think about it, if I had just drawn Unmoored Ego intead of Teferi the outcomes would have probably been the same.
I just thought I say the UWR shell felt pretty solid last night, I ended up going 2-1 beating infect and GB elves but I lost to the 11 Rack deck in 3 games.
I will say the Mox opal felt weird at times because it took longer to activate.
I know fly of the thopter is good, but saheeli sometimes is hard to remove then a creature and can copy karnstructor to beatdown
Relative as karnstruct, Scion of urza might be a adiction to today list, as dont reliable in the lock/bridge too much anymore?
But that seems rather unnecessary?
When you run aether grid, or station or w/e, even if it is the last card in the deck, you insta win?
I also liked the idea of running spine. It's a nice catch all.
To the point that I am a bit concerned about the fact that these lists don't have any discard/removal/counters. How much do you miss it?
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
That’s what I was thinking, it feels very much like a combo deck rather than combo/control? Is that the case or am I naive? Should we be considering more control elements?
I dislike discard being a bad top deck late game, and with adding 10-12 new horizons cards to the main it's just hard to justify room for discard. Counterspells I'm more on board with than before, since previously the way they work so poorly with Ensnaring Bridge was awkward, but now I find bridge is something I rarely search up anymore (down to 1 bridge in the main), counterspells are something I would be more likely to play now, but more in the sideboard.
I do see the deck as mostly a combo deck now with a minor prison theme, or at least that's the version I'm seeing as most successful, both with other people having success and my own experiences as well. So any counterspells would mostly be aimed at protecting the combo
It gave me some slots for interaction in Galvanic Blast / Metallic Rebuke.
I also added a Trinket Mage or two and a Sword of Fire and Ice. Even played around with Vedalken Shackles.
So I was playing Goblin Engineer, Sai, Master Thopterist, Trinket Mage and Urza, Lord of Artifice as threats. Eventually I cut the Galvanic Blasts and added Pyrite Spellbomb, Aether Spellbomb and Vedalken Shackles. Also played 3 Metallic Rebuke.
I haven't given it enough testing to know for sure but I feel like maybe playing Whir is just better, lol.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
3 Goblin Engineer
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
4 Urza, Lord High Artificer
Artifacts (26)
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Arcum's Astrolabe
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Pithing Needle
1 Pyrite Spellbomb
2 Ichor Wellspring
3 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Grinding Station
1 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Whir of Invention
Lands (21)
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Spirebluff Canal
4 Polluted Delta
4 Scalding Tarn
6 Snow-Covered Island
1 Snow-Covered Mountain
1 Snow-Covered Swamp
1 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vents
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Dead of Winter
2 Blood Moon
1 Lightning Bolt
1 Battle at the Bridge
2 Goblin Cratermaker
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Witchbane Orb
So here's my current list, I've been running this shell for a bit now and really like it. Maindeck I feel is quite solid, though I tweak the 1 drop slow around a bit. Sideboard is where most changes happen. This is based off things I've seen Kanister and Zac Elsik running lately, which were of course based off TheNobody's list. This exact 75 I took to my LGS last night, so I've only so far run it through about 4 matches where I went 2-2. I beat Grixis Control and Norin Soul Sisters, while lost to Bridgevine (HOGAAK!!!!) and Infect.
So really my losses where decks that were just really fast, my interaction for something like infect was too few and too slow. Similarly with bridgevine, the game they had a slower hand I was fine, the games with the really fast hands I felt I was close but not quite there.
Changes I might make are swapping one of the needles for a Pyrite Spellbomb or Nihil Spellbomb. Possibly consider cutting one wellspring for something, possibilities are the 4th foundry, the 4th whir, or another one drop probably a spellbomb. I do like having access to at least one Wellspring for that sick Engineer value, but I hate drawing them early. I could even see possibly cutting the bridge, I rarely search for it these days, but I do still like it as a one of. Lastly I'll probably give swapping Grinding Station for Spine of Ish Sah a try. I've been resistant with how expensive Spine is, but there have been places I could have used it well. I do like Grinding Station though, since if it's not winning the game on the spot it can work as a sweet mana engine with Urza and untapping a lot.
Sideboard, I dunno, I'm still all over the place. I like the Leylines for Bridgevine. Blood Moons were a last minute inclusion and they seem just great. Tezz of course is solid, could maybe even cut down to one. Goblin Cratermaker's were something that could hopefully be used vs both tron and creature decks, but they felt REALLY bad vs creature decks, so they could become more bolts or pushes or something. Witchbane Orb was also a last minute inclusion after losing some games online to Aria of Flame, I dunno if it'll stick around
Also, needle shuts down neoform combo if you get it in b4 griselbrand, and it also helps against UW control and Druid combo. Needle is just the bees knees in the current meta, in my opinion, which is why I'm running 3 maindeck.