I also like it. I run 2-3 sb but I feel CB is a more versatile mb card as it strips cards like scapeshift, ad nauseum, cryptic command, other counterspells, destruction spells and burn spells as well as killing most problematic creatures as well as dumping cards for bridge.
I generally like running both, something like 2 Brutality and 1 Battle main, with more battle in the board. A nice hedge against problem creatures or faster decks
I have tested it a little. First, I tried putting it in an ensoul shell, but it was too clunky. Then, I tested it in a Gw pseudo enchantment build with ramp stuff like utopia sprawl and a smattering of Nissas, and it was a decent finisher. Now I'm trying it in a thopter sword build, 3 copies in the SB. I'm playing 4 stars and 4 terrarians, and I'll let everyone know how that league goes when I finish it. Of note: to make the 1 cmc cantripping artifacts better, I'm also playing Faith's Reward as a value/ramp spell that can have a mini-combo with a resolved time sieve. It's probably all a little janky, but you never know until you try.
I thought about the stars. It seems good to make fix for it and if u blow your board it'd help fill your hand BK up. Other than those I was gonna leave the deck how it was. Don't really wanna change to much stuff for a sb card to be optimal.
So this is what I'm thinking about for GP Toronto coming up. I've also got a slightly different version with a fetch/shock manabase, serum visions over looting, welding jar over spellskite main. I've toyed around a bit with a Chalice of the Void version too, and while Chalice is really strong in some matchups, there are enough where it's not amazing that I thought I'd rather free up some space for cards like Collective Brutality
So I do like Collective Brutality and how it's rarely bad and works well with bridge. Battle at the Bridge is also just solid removal and lifegain vs burn. I also quite like the manabase that isn't fetch/shock, especially when you play against burn. I could see myself cutting inventors fair for maybe another island or something. There are some rare times you end up without black sources for a little longer than with a fetch/shock manabase, but I haven't had too many issues with that, and I think it's worth the painless manabase (aside from Spire which you don't often need to use for colours).
I've really liked Faithless Looting over Serum Visions. I like it digging a bit deeper immediately, and the way it can really help with Bridge. It comes at the cost of being a bit of a worse topdeck later, but I think that's ok
I'm not sold on going heavy on Nihil Spellbomb. I've found not enough matchups where it's really good (not much outside of dredge do I really love it), and those matchups generally are won by Bridge anyway
Witchbane Orb I don't love, but matchups like Scapeshift are so hard without it I'll keep one main, sometimes it helps survive a Liliana ultimate too.
Time Sieve could probably easily be something else. Spellskites also could be Welding Jars, but I do kinda like them
Sideboard I'm pretty happy with as well.
Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions, let me know.
With the glimmervoids I'd probably run a few jars main over skites. Why run 4 swords over the standard 3? I like spellbombs personally. Yes They are good against decks that bridge usually wins but they do help with other matchups. And they cantrip. Having a foundry out sacrifice one pay the B now it's 1 life, a 1/1, and draw a card for 2. Also I'd recommend at least 2 pitching needles. Lili, Jace,karn, o stone and tafiri are all things that need to be delt with. Other than that it looks good.
Faithless looting builds typically run 4 swords because you can get multiple in the GY at once. With 2 Swords you only need 4 mana to go infinite with Time Sieve.
@systrill - I 100% agree with the 3 main deck needles. Needles are becoming more and more important to fight creature combo like the new pod creature, devoted druid, tron stuff, teferi, and scooze. And I'm kind of with you on 1 spellbomb, after playing the recent meta a little. If you're looking to drop sieve, I would keep the sieve over the orb every time - beating scapeshift is hard without an orb, but it's certainly possible to race to infinite with sieve, but the inverse is not true for tron or amulet titan.
I would also switch a skite to a jar, like fullmetaltezzeret mentioned.
One thing that I've tried that I'd recommend, is a 3/1 Looting/Visions split. It doesn't HAVE to be 4 of one, 0 of the other. Looting is a much better turn 2-3 play than turn 1, because you have a better understanding of what to keep and what to bin.
I would say cut 1 jar for a Sai. To me, Sai is too good to pass up at least 1 copy out of the board. He blocks, he adds more blockers, he grinds through hate, and he dodges removal like a champ because of how your opponent typically boards.
Lastly, why not play at least 1-2 of wear//tear? You run 8 rainbow lands, so it's not so unlikely you can't cast the W half to get rid of stony silence or leyline of the void. You'll reliably be able to cast the wear side anyway, which can hit anything from Hollow One, Amulet of Vigor, opposing bridges, or affinity pieces.
Hey folks, I'm looking at getting into modern and this type of deck seems exactly like what I want to play. What would you recommend as a good list for the MTGO meta?
I was checking lists on SCG, and found one that placed fairly well this weekend, except I'm not sure how it wins?! I know that in the primer, the thopter / sword combo is the wincon. This list doesn't even maindeck Tezzeret.
Thanks in advance, and I apologize for my ignorance in advance.
Susurus's prison deck is pretty tight and hard to modify more than 3 or so cards. I really like the crucible inventors fair package and would be down to include it in our deck. Main problem is that we don't have much other synergies with crucible unless we start jamming field of ruin/gq/tolaria west. Chalice is also a sick card but modern seems like a 2 cmc format for now.
I've been trying to make repeal + chalice a thing recently and it feels good enough to test. The card draw is obviously a non-bo with bridge but the bouncing tends to slow down most clocks enough to work just right. More importantly in post board games you can lock 2 cmc enchantments in your opponents hand, defend important artifacts, or even cycle by bouncing an opal for free. Chalice on 1 offers likely one of the most robust defenses against surgical.
Sry systrill I didn't notice u had 3 needle main. I thought u didn't have any. I also never played looting, always have been a visions guy so what jacetotheface makes sense to me now. All in all then I'd say it looks pretty tight. The nobodys is right a sai sb is really nice.
The comments about time sieve vs Orb certainly makes a lot of sense. And I agree, pithing needle is so good, I almost want a 4th.
So far Glimmervoid hasn't been an issue, but switching a spellskite to a jar is a good hedge against future issues. Spellskite has been really nice though. Just solid generic protection.
Wear // Tear is a good idea to try, I could probably also try decay/trophy, but I do like the idea of wear//tear being a single coloured source.
I'll think about the Sai idea. I've still yet to have Sai be anything but a giant disappoint when I cast him, so I'm not really sold on the Sai plan.
I don't like Spellskite in the MB for the simple reason, that it's the only creature and gives your opponents an unnecessary target for all their dead Pushes and Paths. Apart from that I don't think you need protection in the mb at all. I only run Jars because they cost 0, help to empty the hand earlier, activate Opals and bigger Whirs earlier and free up SB slots. Apart from that it's still pretty much a dead effect in G1.
I went 3-2 in the league with rampage in the SB. It was a weird league, because I dropped against amulet titan because of needing to leave all of a sudden, and I lost against traditional affinity in matches where I could have easily won if I'd topdecked even halfway decently.
The two matchups where I brought in Rampage of the Clans were both against mardu. Rampage was really good against mardu, turning into a blowout one game when he attached with tokens and young pyro, and I turned my board into 3 3/3's to block profitably and swing back - and that was a game when he went turn 1 discard into surgical sword of the meek. Against burn and amulet titan, and against another aggro deck, I didn't want to bring in rampage.
Faith's Reward as a value spell was never very relevant, so I don't think I'll continue testing that unless I really want to go whole hog with an eggs-lite package and also include Lotus Bloom and reshape. Which I might do just to see, not sure yet.
I don't like Spellskite in the MB for the simple reason, that it's the only creature and gives your opponents an unnecessary target for all their dead Pushes and Paths. Apart from that I don't think you need protection in the mb at all. I only run Jars because they cost 0, help to empty the hand earlier, activate Opals and bigger Whirs earlier and free up SB slots. Apart from that it's still pretty much a dead effect in G1.
I find the spellskites pretty useful. Redirecting cryptic bounces, teferi -3s, valakut triggers, bolts to the face, just general blocking things like goblin guides. Often it can buy you a good amount of time. I'm also totally fine with them getting pathed
That said, in specifically a very push heavy meta they'd be pretty weak, but I honestly rarely play against push these days, so I think it's a solid maindeck choice. I've never really been sorry to have them, especially with how bad Welding Jars often are pre-board.
Hello guys! I ve been playing some stock list for a while, tried some discard spells and they felt ok, but now i was wondering what you guys think about a crucible of worlds package, with everything it means, speaking about ghost quarter, inventor's fair and why not expedition map.
I love how grindy crucible+inventor's fair/ghost quarter can be, but of course it comes at a price: first of all i want to stick on 20 lands, and i fear 3 non-blue sources are a bit greedy, I might try the fourth opal; i m also wondering if this line of attack/redundancy in threats is too slow, but the fact that we can play as a prison makes me want to try this package anyways. I still have to make some serious test with this setup, but wanted to know if someone more experienced than me had some advanced tip, or any suggestion on crucible of worlds.
I m posting my list, feel free to give me your opinion!!
I m also posting my sideboard, maybe we could chat a bit about it too!!
I like the look of the list! My experience testing crucible was that it was totally win-more. We already are probably going to win game 1 when we get to the "grind" stage. The 1 ghost quarter is just going to muddy up otherwise keepable hands. Playing with a fair is totally fine, though. The lifegain can be quite nice sometimes. I'm also a little down on academy ruins. The decks that interract with our foundries are usually exiling them or tucking them into the library, like UW control, or have the ability to scavenge the graveyard away, like GB decks with the 3 scooze they typically pack.
I also like the sideboard, with Defense Grid being the only card I might keep an eye on to see how its performing. I'd make a little room for some anti-burn/aggro tech, like Battle at the Bridge, or additional Collective Brutalities, and would probably cut your additional jar.
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Found this spicy crossbreed
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Pithing Needle
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
1 Damping Sphere
3 Spellskite
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Witchbane Orb
4 Faithless Looting
2 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
1 Battle at the Bridge
Lands (20)
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Spirebluff Canal
4 Spire of Industry
4 Glimmervoid
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
2 Island
2 Ghirapur Aether Grid
4 Unmoored Ego
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Grafdigger's Cage
3 Welding Jar
1 Torpor Orb
So I do like Collective Brutality and how it's rarely bad and works well with bridge. Battle at the Bridge is also just solid removal and lifegain vs burn. I also quite like the manabase that isn't fetch/shock, especially when you play against burn. I could see myself cutting inventors fair for maybe another island or something. There are some rare times you end up without black sources for a little longer than with a fetch/shock manabase, but I haven't had too many issues with that, and I think it's worth the painless manabase (aside from Spire which you don't often need to use for colours).
I've really liked Faithless Looting over Serum Visions. I like it digging a bit deeper immediately, and the way it can really help with Bridge. It comes at the cost of being a bit of a worse topdeck later, but I think that's ok
I'm not sold on going heavy on Nihil Spellbomb. I've found not enough matchups where it's really good (not much outside of dredge do I really love it), and those matchups generally are won by Bridge anyway
Witchbane Orb I don't love, but matchups like Scapeshift are so hard without it I'll keep one main, sometimes it helps survive a Liliana ultimate too.
Time Sieve could probably easily be something else. Spellskites also could be Welding Jars, but I do kinda like them
Sideboard I'm pretty happy with as well.
Anyway, if anyone has any suggestions, let me know.
I would also switch a skite to a jar, like fullmetaltezzeret mentioned.
One thing that I've tried that I'd recommend, is a 3/1 Looting/Visions split. It doesn't HAVE to be 4 of one, 0 of the other. Looting is a much better turn 2-3 play than turn 1, because you have a better understanding of what to keep and what to bin.
I would say cut 1 jar for a Sai. To me, Sai is too good to pass up at least 1 copy out of the board. He blocks, he adds more blockers, he grinds through hate, and he dodges removal like a champ because of how your opponent typically boards.
Lastly, why not play at least 1-2 of wear//tear? You run 8 rainbow lands, so it's not so unlikely you can't cast the W half to get rid of stony silence or leyline of the void. You'll reliably be able to cast the wear side anyway, which can hit anything from Hollow One, Amulet of Vigor, opposing bridges, or affinity pieces.
I was checking lists on SCG, and found one that placed fairly well this weekend, except I'm not sure how it wins?! I know that in the primer, the thopter / sword combo is the wincon. This list doesn't even maindeck Tezzeret.
Thanks in advance, and I apologize for my ignorance in advance.
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ipnu Rivulet
4 Spire of Industry
4 Whir of Invention
4 Botanical Sanctum
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Witchbane Orb
4 Mox Opal
4 Ancient Stirrings
1 Tectonic Edge
4 Tolaria West
1 Academy Ruins
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Bottled Cloister
3 Engineered Explosives
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Welding Jar
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Glimmervoid
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Tormod's Crypt
1 Snow-Covered Island
2 Sai, Master Thopterist
2 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Ghirapur Aether Grid
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Torpor Orb
4 Spellskite
1 Phyrexian Revoker
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1 Tezzeret the Seeker
I've been trying to make repeal + chalice a thing recently and it feels good enough to test. The card draw is obviously a non-bo with bridge but the bouncing tends to slow down most clocks enough to work just right. More importantly in post board games you can lock 2 cmc enchantments in your opponents hand, defend important artifacts, or even cycle by bouncing an opal for free. Chalice on 1 offers likely one of the most robust defenses against surgical.
The comments about time sieve vs Orb certainly makes a lot of sense. And I agree, pithing needle is so good, I almost want a 4th.
So far Glimmervoid hasn't been an issue, but switching a spellskite to a jar is a good hedge against future issues. Spellskite has been really nice though. Just solid generic protection.
Wear // Tear is a good idea to try, I could probably also try decay/trophy, but I do like the idea of wear//tear being a single coloured source.
I'll think about the Sai idea. I've still yet to have Sai be anything but a giant disappoint when I cast him, so I'm not really sold on the Sai plan.
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The two matchups where I brought in Rampage of the Clans were both against mardu. Rampage was really good against mardu, turning into a blowout one game when he attached with tokens and young pyro, and I turned my board into 3 3/3's to block profitably and swing back - and that was a game when he went turn 1 discard into surgical sword of the meek. Against burn and amulet titan, and against another aggro deck, I didn't want to bring in rampage.
Faith's Reward as a value spell was never very relevant, so I don't think I'll continue testing that unless I really want to go whole hog with an eggs-lite package and also include Lotus Bloom and reshape. Which I might do just to see, not sure yet.
I find the spellskites pretty useful. Redirecting cryptic bounces, teferi -3s, valakut triggers, bolts to the face, just general blocking things like goblin guides. Often it can buy you a good amount of time. I'm also totally fine with them getting pathed
That said, in specifically a very push heavy meta they'd be pretty weak, but I honestly rarely play against push these days, so I think it's a solid maindeck choice. I've never really been sorry to have them, especially with how bad Welding Jars often are pre-board.
I love how grindy crucible+inventor's fair/ghost quarter can be, but of course it comes at a price: first of all i want to stick on 20 lands, and i fear 3 non-blue sources are a bit greedy, I might try the fourth opal; i m also wondering if this line of attack/redundancy in threats is too slow, but the fact that we can play as a prison makes me want to try this package anyways. I still have to make some serious test with this setup, but wanted to know if someone more experienced than me had some advanced tip, or any suggestion on crucible of worlds.
I m posting my list, feel free to give me your opinion!!
I m also posting my sideboard, maybe we could chat a bit about it too!!
4 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
1 time sieve
SUPPORT PIECES
3 mox opal
4 mishra's bauble
TOOLBOX TARGETS 13
2 nihil spellbomb
1 grafdigger's cage
1 damping sphere
2 ensnaring bridge
2 pithing needle
1 sorcerous spyglass
1 bottled cloister
1 crucible of worlds
1 expedition map
1 welding jar
4 whir of invention
4 serum visions
2 collective brutality
2 muddle the mixture
LANDS 20
4 darkslick shores
4 polluted delta
1 watery grave
1 breeding pool
2 island
4 spire of industry
1 glimmervoid
1 academy ruins
1 inventor's fair
1 ghost quarter
2 sai, master thopterist
1 padeem, consul of innovation
1 welding jar
2 tezzeret, agent of bolas
1 defense grid
1 torpor orb
3 unmoored ego
2 abrupt decay
1 spellskite
1 damnation
I usually play this list with
-1 crucible of worlds
-1 ghost quarter
-1 inventor's fair
-1 expedition map
-2 muddle the mixture
+1 island
+1 swamp
+4 inquisition of kozilek
I also like the sideboard, with Defense Grid being the only card I might keep an eye on to see how its performing. I'd make a little room for some anti-burn/aggro tech, like Battle at the Bridge, or additional Collective Brutalities, and would probably cut your additional jar.