First, I travel to Paris every now and then. So we might me able to catch up!
Second : our deck play out like a control deck. Our kill and our cards are more oriented toward 2+ mana. The deck you refer to are filled with cards that cost 1 or less or with cantrips that smooth the flow of lands.
For the wrath question, I don't play them myself so I'll let the others answer.
Hey guys, long time no see. I have been playing the UR prison deck Susurrus is playing and really like it. It's having a bit of a tough time with UW, but the card that has really stood out to me in that deck is Sad after side boarding. He just wins games he comes down in if you have an artifact, and I was scheming a bit because I loved the deck @the_nobodies played a few months back with Ideas Unbound. This morning I brewed up a little list that included Sai and the results have been very promising. I haven't been testing for money and no sideboard yet, but the deck is consistently faster than burn with no removal in main.
The two big updates from the past list is that it's grixis with faithless looting, sai and insolent neonates added. Neonates are very awesome because they chump some damage, draw a card, pitch sword and also trigger pitched swords cheaply. A lot fo the times I lose to burn I just can round the corner fast enough because I have to cast sword and foundry and activate enough times to get out of range, this seems to add an edge that was maybe lacking before. The other cool part is that the inclusion of Sai adds resilience to the GY/Stony hate we can expect to see out of the SBs and can give us a huge advantage with aether grid in games 2-3
Here's my very rough list
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Whir of Invention
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Welding Jar
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
Has anyone tried Bitterblossom in the past? I was trying to think of some extra cards to help with UW Control and am about to start trying a sideboard Bitterblossom. I notice that resolving a turn 2 Thopter Foundry is really big in the matchup, as it's the most likely time to successfully get it on the board, especially on the play. So I thought another cheap threat that is resilient to removal, since my experience is everyone always keeps in some removal, would be helpful and bitterblossom might fill that role. It also has a really small Sword of the Meek synergy in that it'll trigger a sword to come back earlier maybe.
Anyway, just a thought, about to start trying it out
Honestly, UW control is a favorable matchup. If we resolve a foundry, which can either happen turn 2 or if they tap out for something like search for azcanta, or a planeswalker (or we can even whir it in any number of times), game 1 is usually ours. A smart UW opponent will scoop quickly to this, unless their hand is something like double d-sphere or teferi. If they try to win game-1, I will sometimes sandbag the infinite combo, or simply, play not to lose because I know that the game is in hand and I want them to run their clock down.
Games 2-3 are obviously harder, but their 3-4 pieces of stony/rip are usually balanced by our 3-4 pieces of enchantment hate. Thoughseize is really the best thing against them, so if you're looking for SB answers to UW control, look no further as the discard spell is useful pretty much across the board. You do have to play thoughtseize a little differently against them, however. If you topdeck a thoughtseize mid-game, don't just cast it. Wait until they make a move to answer your board, and you want to resolve a spell through counter magic the next turn.
I haven't been playing as much recently, because my internet's been wonky. But when I have played, it's a build that I modified from a weird 5-0 list by (Tenshi?) that I saw. For the curious:
There's been a little discussion on the modern reddit about the original build, which had 4 memnites and 4 trawlers, but I thought that aspect of a possible combo was trash after playing a few leagues with it. Grinding Station and Sly Requisitioner are surprisingly good, however. The two make an infinite combo with a sword in the yard (same with the 1-of ravager), but they also do work individually. Station can crack stuff like stars and spellbombs to "dig" for a sword, and can pressure certain decks that don't like being milled, and makes surgical an even better SB option. Sly Req is slow, but useful against grindy decks. The added combos really help against tron and combo, because it's that much easier to race to an instant-win. I've won a game-1 against tron through two karn activations and a world breaker trigger, simply because they spent their resources destroying foundries and a needle before sly req and station came down.
That said, this build is noticeably worse vs humans and stuff like death and taxes and spirits, where the discard and more-main deck removal was missed. And it loses more often to land-screw and multiple opals, etc, because of no visions. Still, it's amazingly fun to play and I'd recommend giving it a go.
What about Faithless Looting for the Sly Requisitioner build? I goldfished it with a friend and it felt powerful. I like the Memnites but I cut the Ornithopter and Spring Leaf for Faithless/Hand disruption. I also wonder if Steelshaper's Gift makes sense with 2-3 combos that require the Sword.
I made top 8 at a 24 player PPTQ over this past weekend with the list below. I got knocked out by burn in the first round of the finals. It really is a 50/50 match up. I both beat and lost to burn players during the swiss rounds and my match in the finals agains another burn player went 1-2. It was so close. My opponent played Thunderous Wrath in his main deck. Hiding behind a bridge is VERY scary against them.
The tournament is very much a blur so I'll describe what i remember. I always have fun taking Tez for a spin.
Round 1 vs Jeskai Aggro/Control? (W 2-1)
This guys was a friend and he ran a control deck with counters, burn spells, and a creature package consisting of Geist of Saint Traft, Spell Queller, and Snapcaster Mage. G1: I landed early combo and there was nothing he could do. Didn't get a quick concession cause he wasn't familiar with the my deck. I knew he was on a control deck of some sort but i didn't get to cast any hand disruption game one to see what version he was playing. so side boarding was sketchy at best. G2: Mull to five and got Spell Quellered out of the game pretty quick. G3: Grindy one. Lot of back and forth with neither of us progressing our board state. He finally lands a Queller against my IoK. I attempt a Whir EoT and he counters it. Luckily i get to resolve the Heraldo in my hand! He draws and passes the turn. I draw, go to combat and swing with Heraldo. He casts Settle the Wreckage?!? We proceed. I land a bridge then a tez and he's got nothing. He needles Tez on his turn but luckily i had A.Decay in hand. I literally just had bridge + tez and he had a Queller on the field. I build a board state and win with Tez Ultimate! Loved the start of this tournament! Out: 1x Bridge, 1x Sieve, 1x D.Sphere, 1x Spellbomb, 1x W.Orb, 1x Jar, 2x F.Push In: 1x Skite, 2x Thoughtseize, 2x Decay, 1x Tez, 1x Padeem, 1x Heraldo Anguish
Round 2 vs Affinity (W 2-0) G1&G2: I'm pretty sure i just dumped my hand whilst taking scary amounts of damage and hid behind bridge til i assembled the combo. Anytime i left a card in hand behind a bridge it was a F.Push. My opponent was all business and super pissed by the end of the match. Other players were happy i beat him so he must not have been a pleasant opponent. Out:1x Tez, 1x G.Cage, 1x D.Sphere, 1x W.Orb, 1x Spellbomb, 3x IoK, In: 1xP.Revoker, 1x Skite, 1x Jar, 2x A.Decay, 1x M.Pulse, 1x Damnation, 1x Padeem
Round 3 vs R/W Burn (L 1-2)
G1: T3 Combo. Opponent concedes after reading said combo.
G2: Mull to 6 keep 1 land hand. My opponent kept a very slow hand cause he had RiP in hand. I drew 6-8 cards between my turns and Baubles and never got a second land.
G3: Burn did what it does and i couldn't stabilize in time. I think i saw one CB the entire match. Had an early Skite out and chumped blocked a bunch till i eventually had to redirect a bolt after a block. Out: 1x Tez, 1x G.Cage, 1x D.Sphere, 1x Spellbomb, 2x needle, 1x Sieve. In: 1x Jar, 1x Skite, 2x A.Decay, 1x M.Pulse, 1x Damnation, 1x Padeem
Round 4 vs R/W Burn (W 2-1)
I don't remember this round really well. Probably best that i lost last round though. i think i would have been paired against one of the 3 KCI decks that were undefeated at the time. Ugh.
It went something like G1: early combo into concession. G2: took under 4 minutes and i got wrecked. G3 was a bit grindy and terrifying. I stabilized with combo at very low life and was open to top deck lethal burn but he didn't get there.
Round 5 - Intentional Draw. I should have eaten something at this point but my buddy came by and we got to chatting.
Finals vs Burn (L 1-2)
G1: I couldn't stabilize after 2x Brutality. I was aggressive with them but didn't discard anything that would have helped. I just ran out of gas and he punished me. G2: I stabilize early behind bridge and W.Orb and assemble combo. G3: Felt good at the start. I IoK and see RiP, D.Revelry, 2x Burn Spells, G.Guide, and Land. I took RiP. (Might have been wrong). He plays G.Guide swings and passes. I CB and escalate once to kill Guide and take Revelry. Game fell apart for me after that. didn't draw anything relevant and he hit straight up gas. So much Burn!
Had a blast. Top 8 was 2x Burn Decks, 2x KCI decks, 1 Humans, 1x B/W PoxWalkers?, One Deck i didn't catch and myself w/ Tez.
I do feel like i want Serum Visions back in the deck. I had to mulligan a lot do to one land hands which was incredibly frustrating considering i added the 21st land to the deck. I do remember being able to keep one landers with visions in hand at 20 lands. Dunno what to drop right now. It might be in my head but i really feel like drew less one landers at 20x lands and hit natural combo more at a 3/2 split on Thopter/Sword. That would indeed give me back my Visions!
Good job making it to finals. Sounds like the burn matchup could have gone either eay. If you want to make room for visions, which is a great idea for the reasons you mentioned, I would cut the jar, a needle, and a cage, (and maybe an opal if you wanted the 4th visions). Cutting combo pieces over narrow role players would be a mistake, IMO.
If you run into a lot of burn in your meta, find some space for battle at the bridge. You could turn a push into a battle easily, and put another in the board.
Hi guys, once again I post after a long time not posting here. But believe I have been playing My Tezz Deck intensly over the last 6 month with a lot of 3-0 or 2-1 small events. I have the feeling that now I know this deck pretty well and I am always trying variantion in the mainboard depending on discussion and new build mentioned here.
This saturday I will go to the PPTQ to try my favortie deck in a bigger event (between 30-40 players are already confirmed, maybe we will be 50)
@pasngr46n2
I have the same dilemma and I am switching between 3x Serum Vision and 3x Inquisition of Kozilek each week. Still don't know that I prefer and I would be so happy top play with 3x Serum + 2x Inquisition in the MB but I really don't know how to achieve that in my list.
I have a question for you. How do you feel not playing any Mana Rock (Pentad Prism) ? I went down to only 2 but they are still good and I don't know if I should cut them so I could achieve my Serum/IoK split
As I say the 3x Serum are sometime 3x IoK
In the sideboard I know I need a Maelstrom Pulse but I can't find one right now I will try to buy one before Saturday since I feel I will face some Leyline of the Void... Not sure about the Surgical Extraction so maybe switch them.
One Tezzeret more in the side could be nice too but I don't really know what to cut for it, maybe the EE, but I think I like it for some reasons (I am not sure if I will board it a lot so I have to think about that)
Anyway Congrats on those results and I will try to come here to post mine after the PPTQ
PS. I used to be "Mysa21" here but I don't know why they force me to create a new account so I had to change my name...
@the nobodys Thanks for the tips. I really like the idea of a 1/1 spit on Push/Battle. I am toying with moving the Welding Jar to the sideboard as well. Jamming Serum into the deck is always gonna be back and forth for me.
@Mysa_21 Oh no! The struggle is real! It's hard for me to let go of the bullets for cards like Visions and IoK.
-I can tell you right away I DO NOT miss Pentad Prism. It's been dropped from almost all of the lists here on the forums. The interaction was nice w/ Whir but when you run a 4/3 split on Thopter/Sword, it's just unnecessary. Whirs became more reactive cause I naturally drew the combo more. So the need to cast Whir asap to get a piece isn't there. Now instead of drawing prism to ramp out a Whir to grab a sword or foundry, I'm naturally drawing them more instead, casting them turns 2 and 3, and using Whir for more reactive purposes when i have more than enough Improvise power. I don't miss the mana fixing either. A healthy Opal/Spire mix has been fine for me so far. Best part about it though is definitely the lack of top deck prisms late game when you need some gas!
-I would keep the Mishra's Bauble count at 4 and bring down the Welding Jar to 1 or 0 unless it's a meta call. I think main deck Jar isn't really necessary anymore and MIGHT get rid of mine or move to the side. If we were affinity trying to protect artifact creatures from removal it would make more sense but not many decks are destroying our artifacts G1. Mardu Pyro and Jund aren't as popular these days.
-For the side I'd be on board with dropping EE and C.Rejection. I didn't like how EE interacted with the deck at all. 90% of the time i wanted it on 2 and that just blew all of my stuff up as well. Whiring for it on 0 has never come up for me either. As for C.Rejection, I feel like bringing it in as a one of against the decks you want it for is just not good enough. The general consensus is to not waste sideboard slots against Tron. I kept 2nd Damping Sphere in the side cause of it's ability to interact with KCI and Storm decks in addition to Tron.
-I've replaced both of my Relic of Progenitus with Nihil Spellbomb. It such a better fit with the activation being free as well as one sided and the card draw being optional.
-I'm actually thinking of jamming Surgical Extraction in the side as well as a 2 of but again... ... ...what do i drop?!?
Good Luck with the PPTQ. Kick some arse! I want to start a trend among us. When you fill out your decklist put "The Tezzeret Collective" where it asks for a "Deck Designer"
Just thought id chip in with a few thoughts, as I recently went back to a straight UB Tezz build. My coloured spells are 4 IOK, 3 Push, 3 Thoughtcast, 3 Tezz, 4 Whir. For artifacts, its a standard 4/3 split of thoptersword, with 3 talismans of dominance and 3 mox opals, 2 bridges, 4 mishras, a few toolbox artifacts and time sieve. Running 21 lands including 1 glimmervoid and 2 citadels. While I enjoyed the BUG build the manabase was very painful and severely limited our coloured spells and/or sideboard, but did give us more variety.
I'm really tempted to try and make a proper control list - one featuring counterspells like cryptic, metallic rebuke, remand/mana leak/spell snare (spell snare especially as 2 drops tend to be our bane ie stony silence, RIP, Kataki, Ancient Grudge, destructive revelry and so on) and heavily rely on keeping bridge alive, having artifacts as prison/control to allow our planeswalkers to do their thing - I feel like despite our power to drag games out we sometimes find it hard to actually close a game out. For example, I lost a round 0-2 to bridgevine simply because G1 i had to mull to 5 and was too slow, and G2 I dragged it out, having resolved a tezz, had a bridge, a batterskull, 7 thopters and thoptersword out, but they had a pithing needle on thopter foundry which really messed me up and i had absolutely no way to remove it. I then durdled behind a bridge while he kept viscera-seeing to dig for artifact destruction. I managed to go 8-9 turns drawing only lands, ending up with a board of 12+ lands and not being able to attack thanks to his approximately 1 million thopters off hangerback walker. It felt so bad to be out-grinded by a supposedly "balanced" and "swingy" deck meanwhile we are the dedicated combo/prison deck and we still lose once we have a lock thanks to a single pithing needle - we have no way of bouncing, destroying, or otherwise nullifying opposing hate in a standard UB build. Discard spells, i find, just dont do enough because topdecks are often what get us killed, because they can draw into hate and windmill slam it and we simply cant do anything. Board presence isnt nearly enough, especially if we're digging for a final combo piece and arent doing much behind a bridge.
I find tezz to either be great or totally underwhelming - sometimes hes a godsend and wins the game behind a bridge in a couple of turns with his nuke or early game 5/5 beats, and othertimes hes a dead card in hand we can barely cast and who immediately dies after digging 5 or making a 5/5. Its hard to resolve a sorcery speed 4 mana spell that doesnt immediately win the game like say, scapeshift which instantly wins and can power it out early with minimal investment, whereas to get tezz out before turn 4 you often need a nut hand and perfect curve to do so.
Ultimately, it just makes me feel like we simply cant do enough in 2 colours. I feel that we cant play like a linear deck that ignores the opponent because our lock/control is so weak and/or fragile in comparison to similar decks like UW control or Lantern (or uninteractive 2c combo decks like tron, storm and so on), but at the same time we cant play an interactive game because we simply dont have the slots to do so - needing some 24+ artifacts and 4 whirs really limits our other cards.
I feel like one solution here would be to either drastically reduce the number of artifacts and play a more control-style deck with tezzeret, jace or lily for control behind a playset of bridges/thoptersword, and drop the other utility/mana artifacts since hitting t1 metalcraft with mox is almost impossible and the talismans/pentads arent really that good. this would free up a lot of slots to play an interactive game, potentially 3 coloured.
Otherwise, i feel like we need to play the most consistent game possible. Being able to ramp out thoptersword VERY early should be our priority and we should just cut the expensive bits and/or lock pieces and focus solely on finding the combo as that seems to be ultimately what this deck wants.
I think the major issue here is that we spend so many resources trying to not die and find a combo which doesnt even win us the game in some cases, is incredibly vulnerable and fragile, and is shut down by one of the two most common sideboard hate types in the entire format. We then try to drag a game out but have no lategame payoffs that help instantly, or at least very quickly, win, with the appropriate backup and/or removal. Our gameplan hinges on survivng as long as possible with thoptersword and basically hoping the opponent doesnt find their hate or answers.
Thoughts anyone? Im especially interested in a control lists like the old Tezz control decks, or a turbo-foundry featuring some infinite combo like time sieve or KCI/grinding station.
The UR Prison deck Susurrus_mtg is crushing with in modern leagues is playing Tezz AOB and is basically the best option for a control/prison shell.
Meltiin’s grixis control list has a ton of black based control, lilly and both tezzerets if you’re looking for more of a heavyweight control deck.
Besides that I think jace is better in the 4 spot with cryptic/counterspell decks because he can draw you more counterspells and never whiffs like Tez.
@boomforest - Ill take a look into these lists. My question is though, especially for the heavy control lists, what do we gain by playing a large number of artifacts? does it synergise with wanting to spam thopters on the end step/in response to removal of our opponents if we have to tap out for cryptics? Are we even really playing tezzerator without actual tezz? isnt that essentiall a slightly lighter and more reactive/non proactive Lantern control?
I think the major issue is that this archetype doesnt really know what its doing. We have too many bits and pieces and not enough speed/resilience to justify not playing permission, but not enough deterministic kills to justify playing a heavily gimped control package. When we run tezz we need some 20+ artifacts but that means we only get a dozen or so coloured spells. Without insane mana ramp (which does really work in modern unless we can get consistent t1 mox active) and card draw/searching for pieces the combo just isnt oppressive enough in a game.
Just checked out Meltiin's grixis control and i cannot fathom how he doesnt instantly die. He relies solely on discard, which if you arent hitting 2 or more within the first few turns are usually irrelevant, and has absolutely no board interaction bar lili and collective brutality if you so choose. He has 2 mana rocks for some reason (i am under the impression that you either go all out on the mana ramp strategy or not at all) and doesnt have thoptersword or crucible for combo. He plays relics over nihil spellbombs which are objectively better in a Black deck. He has 4 Tezz AOB with only 12 artifacts and a darksteel, and then 2 Tezz Seekers on top - what is he hoping to dig/fetch for? wouldnt JTMS be better here? ghost quarter and 2 fairs? No Whirs?
This list just seems totally off the rails. at this point you're closer to playing UB control and even then that deck isnt tier.
It does fine, he’s been messing with a similar build for over a year and taking down big tourneys. It’s why I said not for the faint of heart. The wins are sloppy and grindy, but it has the tools to beat everything
So back from the PPTQ, it went okay but I just miss the Top 8 losing my last game (a win would have put me in the top8) but it was really a good tournament with a lot of good play and I am definitly with my choice of playing TezzyBoy
@pasngr46n2
You were totaly right about the Pentad Prism, I cut them so I had my 3x Serum + 2x IoK and I never missed them.
I couldn't add the Maelstrom Pulse since I didn't find one but I did switch the EE for one Tezz in the SB (didn't missed the EE neither)
So small report with what I remember:
Round 1 vs Jund
win 2-1
I began versus one of the best player in the store, he always top8 or win tournament so I know it won't be easy.
G1 I had the combo turn 3 thanks to the serum visions and he scoops turn 5
G2 is slower for me, he hit me with a Tarmo the next turn cascade a Bloodbraid elf into an artifact removal for my freshly played Bridge. It was hard too come back from here
G3 he has a turn 3 Liliana of the Veil that empty my hand while I have just a Foundry but can't find the sword. I don't remember how it went exactl but I finally find the sword. I am at 2 life, take my turn then topdeck a KCI and win with infinit combo.
I am happy to defeat this really good player.
Round 2 vs Death and Taxes
win 2-0
G1 I have the combo in hand with a Fatal push that help me too deal with his ealry thalia then I play my combo, quick win.
G2 was longer but I begin win two Fatal push in hand then I begin to play a lot of artifact, I draw my Abrupt decay the turn before he plays a Stony Silence so no problem here. We Finally are in a game where he has a lot of flying creatures, he does a lot of flicker and blink trick, one of them where he flickers my Ensnaring bridge but wasn't enough to kill me. I finally win with Tezzeret Ult the turn after I play him.
Round 3 vs Mono Red Prison
1-1
Oh god this match-up was boring an unpleasant.
Game one goes for like 35min and we ended in a situation where neither of us could win, full lock. We counted our library and I had just one more card than him, so he would mill himself first.
G2 was a lot quicker he kills me after just 5 or 6 turn I think.
So we go to the 3rd and I manage to slow him down a bit with 2 pithing needle on his walker but time's up and we couldn't finish this game.
G4 vs Amulet Titan
Lose 0-2
G1 I can't even remember how this deck works and while I am just landing a sword of the meek and seeing nothing with 2 serum visions he Hit me with Titan and finishes the game quickly.
I looked at my sideboard not even knowing what I should bring in, I had the feeling that nothing was usefull. I take my Abrupt Decay and Thoughtseize I guess.
G2 I abrupt Decay his turn 1 amulet but that wasn't enough he quickly has 2 Titan in play and I am done.
At least It was my first lose.
At this point I know that if I want to be in the top8 I need 2 win in round 5 and 6 so I am a bit more stressed
Round 5 vs Pyromancer Ascencion Storm
win 2-0
Turn One I thought he was on regular storm but then I see the Pyromancer Ascencion.
I had a Dampling Sphere in my opening hand so it wasn't too much a problem. My first draw is a Nihil spellbomb so I'm pretty confident. I then play a foundry and next turn Whir for the sword and that's it
G2 I mulligan then keep a hand with nihil spellbomb and the combo. He cast 2 opt and w Sleigh of hand so I think he has probably a lot of good stuff in hand. the turn he decide to combo I am in a weird position: I have 3 blue mana open, a whir in hand and 4 artifact in play. I take a lot of time to decide what to do cause if I whir for x=4 (for the witchbane orb) that means I tap my Nihil spellbomb so I am a bit afraid that he finaly use a Empty the Warren or do some tricks with his graveyard and some possible removal, so I decide to whir for the dampling sphere! He still has a ton of mana so he tries it anyway but finaly fails. Next turn I draw KCI, I explain him that I have like One million Life and Token but he still wants to play... He takes his turn to pyroclasm all my tokens but when I do the combo again he understands and concede.
Round 6 vs Jeskai control
lose 1-2
Don't remember a lot of this one but game one he counters everything I play with Logic Knot and then Cryptic + Snap + everything he needs
I won the second using a lot of hand disruption and pithing needle his Teferi before playing the combo and a Tezz.
G3 was longer and a bit intense but he eventualy Wear/Tear the 3rd thopter foundry I try to play then Surgical Extraction on it. Next turn I resolve my Herald of Angusih that could save the game but he hase Celestial Purge in hand. I am done ...
Sorry I have not a lot of gameplay details, those Tournament are quite intense and it's hard to take notes after the games, especialy playing control and not having a lot of time between games but really it was a good experience and I am quite happy to win that many games and not lose the ones I lost on missplay. I will probably go to another PPTQ this Sunday to try again and do better.
Thx for all of you working hard on this deck
And yes I registered my deck with "the Tezzeret Collective" on the list
Thanks for the report, they're always fun and informative to read. I love "The Tezz Collective" idea, too.
Amulet Titan is a totally winnable matchup, you just have to know the deck. Game one should go your way - all you have to do is needle engineered explosives and throw a bridge down. Sideboard cards that are good against them are thoughtsieze, damping sphere (to turn off their double lands), Padeem, spellskite, damnation, and more needles for Tolaria West. If you play surgical, it can be quite good too if you can hit Prime Time off of discard. Watch out for Ruric Thar out of the board.
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First, I travel to Paris every now and then. So we might me able to catch up!
Second : our deck play out like a control deck. Our kill and our cards are more oriented toward 2+ mana. The deck you refer to are filled with cards that cost 1 or less or with cantrips that smooth the flow of lands.
For the wrath question, I don't play them myself so I'll let the others answer.
The two big updates from the past list is that it's grixis with faithless looting, sai and insolent neonates added. Neonates are very awesome because they chump some damage, draw a card, pitch sword and also trigger pitched swords cheaply. A lot fo the times I lose to burn I just can round the corner fast enough because I have to cast sword and foundry and activate enough times to get out of range, this seems to add an edge that was maybe lacking before. The other cool part is that the inclusion of Sai adds resilience to the GY/Stony hate we can expect to see out of the SBs and can give us a huge advantage with aether grid in games 2-3
Here's my very rough list
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Whir of Invention
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Welding Jar
1 Sphere of Resistance
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Insolent Noonate
3 Sai, Master Thopterist
3 Faithless Looting
3 Lingering Souls
4 Ideas Unbound
4 Glimmervoid
3 Darkslick shores
2 Spirebluff Canal
2 Watery Grave
1 Steam Vent
4 Polluted Delta
3 Islands
I'd love feedback or thoughts! I'll keep testing.
Anyway, just a thought, about to start trying it out
Games 2-3 are obviously harder, but their 3-4 pieces of stony/rip are usually balanced by our 3-4 pieces of enchantment hate. Thoughseize is really the best thing against them, so if you're looking for SB answers to UW control, look no further as the discard spell is useful pretty much across the board. You do have to play thoughtseize a little differently against them, however. If you topdeck a thoughtseize mid-game, don't just cast it. Wait until they make a move to answer your board, and you want to resolve a spell through counter magic the next turn.
I haven't been playing as much recently, because my internet's been wonky. But when I have played, it's a build that I modified from a weird 5-0 list by (Tenshi?) that I saw. For the curious:
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Chromatic Star
2 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
4 Grinding Station
1 Arcbound Ravager
1 Scrap Trawler
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
1 Battle at the Bridge
4 Sly Requisitioner
19 Land
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Back to Nature
1 Damping Sphere
3 Surgical Extraction
3 Thoughtseize
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Flaying Tedrils
1 Phyrexian Revoker
There's been a little discussion on the modern reddit about the original build, which had 4 memnites and 4 trawlers, but I thought that aspect of a possible combo was trash after playing a few leagues with it. Grinding Station and Sly Requisitioner are surprisingly good, however. The two make an infinite combo with a sword in the yard (same with the 1-of ravager), but they also do work individually. Station can crack stuff like stars and spellbombs to "dig" for a sword, and can pressure certain decks that don't like being milled, and makes surgical an even better SB option. Sly Req is slow, but useful against grindy decks. The added combos really help against tron and combo, because it's that much easier to race to an instant-win. I've won a game-1 against tron through two karn activations and a world breaker trigger, simply because they spent their resources destroying foundries and a needle before sly req and station came down.
That said, this build is noticeably worse vs humans and stuff like death and taxes and spirits, where the discard and more-main deck removal was missed. And it loses more often to land-screw and multiple opals, etc, because of no visions. Still, it's amazingly fun to play and I'd recommend giving it a go.
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Fatal Push
3 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
Planeswalkers
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
1 Welding Jar
2 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Damping Sphere
1 Time Sieve
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Witchbane Orb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
3 Spire of Industry
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Nihil Spellbomb
1x Torpor Orb
1x Spellskite
1x Damping Sphere
1x Welding Jar
2x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Maelstrom Pulse
1x Damnation
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Herald of Anguish
The tournament is very much a blur so I'll describe what i remember. I always have fun taking Tez for a spin.
Round 1 vs Jeskai Aggro/Control? (W 2-1)
This guys was a friend and he ran a control deck with counters, burn spells, and a creature package consisting of Geist of Saint Traft, Spell Queller, and Snapcaster Mage.
G1: I landed early combo and there was nothing he could do. Didn't get a quick concession cause he wasn't familiar with the my deck. I knew he was on a control deck of some sort but i didn't get to cast any hand disruption game one to see what version he was playing. so side boarding was sketchy at best.
G2: Mull to five and got Spell Quellered out of the game pretty quick.
G3: Grindy one. Lot of back and forth with neither of us progressing our board state. He finally lands a Queller against my IoK. I attempt a Whir EoT and he counters it. Luckily i get to resolve the Heraldo in my hand! He draws and passes the turn. I draw, go to combat and swing with Heraldo. He casts Settle the Wreckage?!? We proceed. I land a bridge then a tez and he's got nothing. He needles Tez on his turn but luckily i had A.Decay in hand. I literally just had bridge + tez and he had a Queller on the field. I build a board state and win with Tez Ultimate! Loved the start of this tournament!
Out: 1x Bridge, 1x Sieve, 1x D.Sphere, 1x Spellbomb, 1x W.Orb, 1x Jar, 2x F.Push
In: 1x Skite, 2x Thoughtseize, 2x Decay, 1x Tez, 1x Padeem, 1x Heraldo Anguish
Round 2 vs Affinity (W 2-0)
G1&G2: I'm pretty sure i just dumped my hand whilst taking scary amounts of damage and hid behind bridge til i assembled the combo. Anytime i left a card in hand behind a bridge it was a F.Push. My opponent was all business and super pissed by the end of the match. Other players were happy i beat him so he must not have been a pleasant opponent.
Out:1x Tez, 1x G.Cage, 1x D.Sphere, 1x W.Orb, 1x Spellbomb, 3x IoK,
In: 1xP.Revoker, 1x Skite, 1x Jar, 2x A.Decay, 1x M.Pulse, 1x Damnation, 1x Padeem
Round 3 vs R/W Burn (L 1-2)
G1: T3 Combo. Opponent concedes after reading said combo.
G2: Mull to 6 keep 1 land hand. My opponent kept a very slow hand cause he had RiP in hand. I drew 6-8 cards between my turns and Baubles and never got a second land.
G3: Burn did what it does and i couldn't stabilize in time. I think i saw one CB the entire match. Had an early Skite out and chumped blocked a bunch till i eventually had to redirect a bolt after a block.
Out: 1x Tez, 1x G.Cage, 1x D.Sphere, 1x Spellbomb, 2x needle, 1x Sieve.
In: 1x Jar, 1x Skite, 2x A.Decay, 1x M.Pulse, 1x Damnation, 1x Padeem
Round 4 vs R/W Burn (W 2-1)
I don't remember this round really well. Probably best that i lost last round though. i think i would have been paired against one of the 3 KCI decks that were undefeated at the time. Ugh.
It went something like G1: early combo into concession. G2: took under 4 minutes and i got wrecked. G3 was a bit grindy and terrifying. I stabilized with combo at very low life and was open to top deck lethal burn but he didn't get there.
Round 5 - Intentional Draw. I should have eaten something at this point but my buddy came by and we got to chatting.
Finals vs Burn (L 1-2)
G1: I couldn't stabilize after 2x Brutality. I was aggressive with them but didn't discard anything that would have helped. I just ran out of gas and he punished me.
G2: I stabilize early behind bridge and W.Orb and assemble combo.
G3: Felt good at the start. I IoK and see RiP, D.Revelry, 2x Burn Spells, G.Guide, and Land. I took RiP. (Might have been wrong). He plays G.Guide swings and passes. I CB and escalate once to kill Guide and take Revelry. Game fell apart for me after that. didn't draw anything relevant and he hit straight up gas. So much Burn!
Had a blast. Top 8 was 2x Burn Decks, 2x KCI decks, 1 Humans, 1x B/W PoxWalkers?, One Deck i didn't catch and myself w/ Tez.
I do feel like i want Serum Visions back in the deck. I had to mulligan a lot do to one land hands which was incredibly frustrating considering i added the 21st land to the deck. I do remember being able to keep one landers with visions in hand at 20 lands. Dunno what to drop right now. It might be in my head but i really feel like drew less one landers at 20x lands and hit natural combo more at a 3/2 split on Thopter/Sword. That would indeed give me back my Visions!
If you run into a lot of burn in your meta, find some space for battle at the bridge. You could turn a push into a battle easily, and put another in the board.
This saturday I will go to the PPTQ to try my favortie deck in a bigger event (between 30-40 players are already confirmed, maybe we will be 50)
@pasngr46n2
I have the same dilemma and I am switching between 3x Serum Vision and 3x Inquisition of Kozilek each week. Still don't know that I prefer and I would be so happy top play with 3x Serum + 2x Inquisition in the MB but I really don't know how to achieve that in my list.
I have a question for you. How do you feel not playing any Mana Rock (Pentad Prism) ? I went down to only 2 but they are still good and I don't know if I should cut them so I could achieve my Serum/IoK split
Currently my list is:
3 Serum Vision
2 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
Planeswalkers
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
2 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Damping Sphere
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Pentad Prism
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
4 Spire of Industry
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spellskite
1x Welding Jar
2x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Damnation
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Herald of Anguish
1x Engineered Explosives
1x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Battle at the Bridge
1x Surgical Extraction
As I say the 3x Serum are sometime 3x IoK
In the sideboard I know I need a Maelstrom Pulse but I can't find one right now I will try to buy one before Saturday since I feel I will face some Leyline of the Void... Not sure about the Surgical Extraction so maybe switch them.
One Tezzeret more in the side could be nice too but I don't really know what to cut for it, maybe the EE, but I think I like it for some reasons (I am not sure if I will board it a lot so I have to think about that)
Anyway Congrats on those results and I will try to come here to post mine after the PPTQ
PS. I used to be "Mysa21" here but I don't know why they force me to create a new account so I had to change my name...
@Mysa_21 Oh no! The struggle is real! It's hard for me to let go of the bullets for cards like Visions and IoK.
-I can tell you right away I DO NOT miss Pentad Prism. It's been dropped from almost all of the lists here on the forums. The interaction was nice w/ Whir but when you run a 4/3 split on Thopter/Sword, it's just unnecessary. Whirs became more reactive cause I naturally drew the combo more. So the need to cast Whir asap to get a piece isn't there. Now instead of drawing prism to ramp out a Whir to grab a sword or foundry, I'm naturally drawing them more instead, casting them turns 2 and 3, and using Whir for more reactive purposes when i have more than enough Improvise power. I don't miss the mana fixing either. A healthy Opal/Spire mix has been fine for me so far. Best part about it though is definitely the lack of top deck prisms late game when you need some gas!
-I would keep the Mishra's Bauble count at 4 and bring down the Welding Jar to 1 or 0 unless it's a meta call. I think main deck Jar isn't really necessary anymore and MIGHT get rid of mine or move to the side. If we were affinity trying to protect artifact creatures from removal it would make more sense but not many decks are destroying our artifacts G1. Mardu Pyro and Jund aren't as popular these days.
-For the side I'd be on board with dropping EE and C.Rejection. I didn't like how EE interacted with the deck at all. 90% of the time i wanted it on 2 and that just blew all of my stuff up as well. Whiring for it on 0 has never come up for me either. As for C.Rejection, I feel like bringing it in as a one of against the decks you want it for is just not good enough. The general consensus is to not waste sideboard slots against Tron. I kept 2nd Damping Sphere in the side cause of it's ability to interact with KCI and Storm decks in addition to Tron.
-I've replaced both of my Relic of Progenitus with Nihil Spellbomb. It such a better fit with the activation being free as well as one sided and the card draw being optional.
-I'm actually thinking of jamming Surgical Extraction in the side as well as a 2 of but again... ... ...what do i drop?!?
Good Luck with the PPTQ. Kick some arse! I want to start a trend among us. When you fill out your decklist put "The Tezzeret Collective" where it asks for a "Deck Designer"
I'm really tempted to try and make a proper control list - one featuring counterspells like cryptic, metallic rebuke, remand/mana leak/spell snare (spell snare especially as 2 drops tend to be our bane ie stony silence, RIP, Kataki, Ancient Grudge, destructive revelry and so on) and heavily rely on keeping bridge alive, having artifacts as prison/control to allow our planeswalkers to do their thing - I feel like despite our power to drag games out we sometimes find it hard to actually close a game out. For example, I lost a round 0-2 to bridgevine simply because G1 i had to mull to 5 and was too slow, and G2 I dragged it out, having resolved a tezz, had a bridge, a batterskull, 7 thopters and thoptersword out, but they had a pithing needle on thopter foundry which really messed me up and i had absolutely no way to remove it. I then durdled behind a bridge while he kept viscera-seeing to dig for artifact destruction. I managed to go 8-9 turns drawing only lands, ending up with a board of 12+ lands and not being able to attack thanks to his approximately 1 million thopters off hangerback walker. It felt so bad to be out-grinded by a supposedly "balanced" and "swingy" deck meanwhile we are the dedicated combo/prison deck and we still lose once we have a lock thanks to a single pithing needle - we have no way of bouncing, destroying, or otherwise nullifying opposing hate in a standard UB build. Discard spells, i find, just dont do enough because topdecks are often what get us killed, because they can draw into hate and windmill slam it and we simply cant do anything. Board presence isnt nearly enough, especially if we're digging for a final combo piece and arent doing much behind a bridge.
I find tezz to either be great or totally underwhelming - sometimes hes a godsend and wins the game behind a bridge in a couple of turns with his nuke or early game 5/5 beats, and othertimes hes a dead card in hand we can barely cast and who immediately dies after digging 5 or making a 5/5. Its hard to resolve a sorcery speed 4 mana spell that doesnt immediately win the game like say, scapeshift which instantly wins and can power it out early with minimal investment, whereas to get tezz out before turn 4 you often need a nut hand and perfect curve to do so.
Ultimately, it just makes me feel like we simply cant do enough in 2 colours. I feel that we cant play like a linear deck that ignores the opponent because our lock/control is so weak and/or fragile in comparison to similar decks like UW control or Lantern (or uninteractive 2c combo decks like tron, storm and so on), but at the same time we cant play an interactive game because we simply dont have the slots to do so - needing some 24+ artifacts and 4 whirs really limits our other cards.
I feel like one solution here would be to either drastically reduce the number of artifacts and play a more control-style deck with tezzeret, jace or lily for control behind a playset of bridges/thoptersword, and drop the other utility/mana artifacts since hitting t1 metalcraft with mox is almost impossible and the talismans/pentads arent really that good. this would free up a lot of slots to play an interactive game, potentially 3 coloured.
Otherwise, i feel like we need to play the most consistent game possible. Being able to ramp out thoptersword VERY early should be our priority and we should just cut the expensive bits and/or lock pieces and focus solely on finding the combo as that seems to be ultimately what this deck wants.
I think the major issue here is that we spend so many resources trying to not die and find a combo which doesnt even win us the game in some cases, is incredibly vulnerable and fragile, and is shut down by one of the two most common sideboard hate types in the entire format. We then try to drag a game out but have no lategame payoffs that help instantly, or at least very quickly, win, with the appropriate backup and/or removal. Our gameplan hinges on survivng as long as possible with thoptersword and basically hoping the opponent doesnt find their hate or answers.
Thoughts anyone? Im especially interested in a control lists like the old Tezz control decks, or a turbo-foundry featuring some infinite combo like time sieve or KCI/grinding station.
Meltiin’s grixis control list has a ton of black based control, lilly and both tezzerets if you’re looking for more of a heavyweight control deck.
Besides that I think jace is better in the 4 spot with cryptic/counterspell decks because he can draw you more counterspells and never whiffs like Tez.
I think the major issue is that this archetype doesnt really know what its doing. We have too many bits and pieces and not enough speed/resilience to justify not playing permission, but not enough deterministic kills to justify playing a heavily gimped control package. When we run tezz we need some 20+ artifacts but that means we only get a dozen or so coloured spells. Without insane mana ramp (which does really work in modern unless we can get consistent t1 mox active) and card draw/searching for pieces the combo just isnt oppressive enough in a game.
How do we resolve this?
This list just seems totally off the rails. at this point you're closer to playing UB control and even then that deck isnt tier.
How does it even function???
Full-Art Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
the deck was (only minor change)
3 Serum Vision
2 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Fatal Push
2 Collective Brutality
4 Whir of Invention
Planeswalkers
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts
3 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
2 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Damping Sphere
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Witchbane Orb
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
2 Watery Grave
1 Breeding Pool
4 Spire of Industry
3 Island
1 Swamp
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventors' Fair
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Spellskite
1x Welding Jar
2x Thoughtseize
2x Abrupt Decay
1x Damnation
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Herald of Anguish
1x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
1x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Battle at the Bridge
1x Surgical Extraction
@pasngr46n2
You were totaly right about the Pentad Prism, I cut them so I had my 3x Serum + 2x IoK and I never missed them.
I couldn't add the Maelstrom Pulse since I didn't find one but I did switch the EE for one Tezz in the SB (didn't missed the EE neither)
So small report with what I remember:
Round 1 vs Jund
win 2-1
I began versus one of the best player in the store, he always top8 or win tournament so I know it won't be easy.
G1 I had the combo turn 3 thanks to the serum visions and he scoops turn 5
G2 is slower for me, he hit me with a Tarmo the next turn cascade a Bloodbraid elf into an artifact removal for my freshly played Bridge. It was hard too come back from here
G3 he has a turn 3 Liliana of the Veil that empty my hand while I have just a Foundry but can't find the sword. I don't remember how it went exactl but I finally find the sword. I am at 2 life, take my turn then topdeck a KCI and win with infinit combo.
I am happy to defeat this really good player.
Round 2 vs Death and Taxes
win 2-0
G1 I have the combo in hand with a Fatal push that help me too deal with his ealry thalia then I play my combo, quick win.
G2 was longer but I begin win two Fatal push in hand then I begin to play a lot of artifact, I draw my Abrupt decay the turn before he plays a Stony Silence so no problem here. We Finally are in a game where he has a lot of flying creatures, he does a lot of flicker and blink trick, one of them where he flickers my Ensnaring bridge but wasn't enough to kill me. I finally win with Tezzeret Ult the turn after I play him.
Round 3 vs Mono Red Prison
1-1
Oh god this match-up was boring an unpleasant.
Game one goes for like 35min and we ended in a situation where neither of us could win, full lock. We counted our library and I had just one more card than him, so he would mill himself first.
G2 was a lot quicker he kills me after just 5 or 6 turn I think.
So we go to the 3rd and I manage to slow him down a bit with 2 pithing needle on his walker but time's up and we couldn't finish this game.
G4 vs Amulet Titan
Lose 0-2
G1 I can't even remember how this deck works and while I am just landing a sword of the meek and seeing nothing with 2 serum visions he Hit me with Titan and finishes the game quickly.
I looked at my sideboard not even knowing what I should bring in, I had the feeling that nothing was usefull. I take my Abrupt Decay and Thoughtseize I guess.
G2 I abrupt Decay his turn 1 amulet but that wasn't enough he quickly has 2 Titan in play and I am done.
At least It was my first lose.
At this point I know that if I want to be in the top8 I need 2 win in round 5 and 6 so I am a bit more stressed
Round 5 vs Pyromancer Ascencion Storm
win 2-0
Turn One I thought he was on regular storm but then I see the Pyromancer Ascencion.
I had a Dampling Sphere in my opening hand so it wasn't too much a problem. My first draw is a Nihil spellbomb so I'm pretty confident. I then play a foundry and next turn Whir for the sword and that's it
G2 I mulligan then keep a hand with nihil spellbomb and the combo. He cast 2 opt and w Sleigh of hand so I think he has probably a lot of good stuff in hand. the turn he decide to combo I am in a weird position: I have 3 blue mana open, a whir in hand and 4 artifact in play. I take a lot of time to decide what to do cause if I whir for x=4 (for the witchbane orb) that means I tap my Nihil spellbomb so I am a bit afraid that he finaly use a Empty the Warren or do some tricks with his graveyard and some possible removal, so I decide to whir for the dampling sphere! He still has a ton of mana so he tries it anyway but finaly fails. Next turn I draw KCI, I explain him that I have like One million Life and Token but he still wants to play... He takes his turn to pyroclasm all my tokens but when I do the combo again he understands and concede.
Round 6 vs Jeskai control
lose 1-2
Don't remember a lot of this one but game one he counters everything I play with Logic Knot and then Cryptic + Snap + everything he needs
I won the second using a lot of hand disruption and pithing needle his Teferi before playing the combo and a Tezz.
G3 was longer and a bit intense but he eventualy Wear/Tear the 3rd thopter foundry I try to play then Surgical Extraction on it. Next turn I resolve my Herald of Angusih that could save the game but he hase Celestial Purge in hand. I am done ...
Sorry I have not a lot of gameplay details, those Tournament are quite intense and it's hard to take notes after the games, especialy playing control and not having a lot of time between games but really it was a good experience and I am quite happy to win that many games and not lose the ones I lost on missplay. I will probably go to another PPTQ this Sunday to try again and do better.
Thx for all of you working hard on this deck
And yes I registered my deck with "the Tezzeret Collective" on the list
Amulet Titan is a totally winnable matchup, you just have to know the deck. Game one should go your way - all you have to do is needle engineered explosives and throw a bridge down. Sideboard cards that are good against them are thoughtsieze, damping sphere (to turn off their double lands), Padeem, spellskite, damnation, and more needles for Tolaria West. If you play surgical, it can be quite good too if you can hit Prime Time off of discard. Watch out for Ruric Thar out of the board.