I played U/W Thopter Sword tonight to a 2-1 at my local Modern. I ended up losing to Merfolk after a Dispel on my Settle the Wreckage in G3 but otherwise the deck felt great. Playing moreso as a control deck that can go over the top of other combo or physical damage based decks was interesting. Path is all around better than Push, at least in my meta. I didn't miss Brutality that much, and Metallic Rebuke largely fills that slot nicely. The lack of hand disruption made games against Mardu Pyromancer a slog (had to avoid surgical for a large part of the game), but I was able to work my way around a Blood Moon, EE, and numerous discard spells. I had a Ponza opponent get visibly angry when on the draw I Gemstone Caverne'd pitching an Opt, cast my other Opt on his turn, and played a Foundry along with Bauble and Opal T1. Gemstone may just be too cute, but with the number of important 2 drops it's going to be nearly an auto win the games we have it. The sideboard is also a work in progress. It's hard to choose between Verdict and Settle right now, I tend to see a fair amount of affinity where I want the ability to get rid of man lands. Timely is also probably wrong, with this level of counter and interaction burn doesn't seem like it's that horrible.
@jacetotheface - I really like that artifact composition, it's similar to what I run (with the exception of only 3 foundries). I still think the paths could be a better suited card, but if you are going to run path/opt, you should probably be running some snapcaster mage. Snappy can rebuy whir late game, too.
You definitely gave me the confidence to try Chromatic Star. I wouldn't mind changing the Grafdigger's cage/Damping Sphere for a Snapcaster + Opt. Maybe just go all in on generally good cards and hope that Krark-Clan infinite life + interaction is enough to deal with Combo/Tron.
I found that attacking the hand with cards like Inquisition of Kozelik and Thoughtseize was not what I wanted to be doing. A lot of the format has been warped around the ability to beat decks that use these tools as disruption. For example of the top 12 decks of the formatI would only want the hand disruption against the two control decks and storm. They are okay in some other matchups like Humans or IOK against burn but the hand disruption loses most of it's value when it is no longer a universal piece of disruption. My local meta is particularly dense with Tron so I am running 3 needle effects and 2 Dampening Sphere in the 75 alongside the 4x Whir of Invention. I am also playing a Time Sieve to help race the various combo decks in my meta like Ad Nausem, Valakut and Counters Company.
I mentioned before that I was going to test [card]Tezzeret, Master Artificer[/card in modern. I did and I would not recommend that anyone else waste their time. The card itself was absurdly powerful but the shell you have to put him into was terrible. It is probably at its best in Legacy alongside sol lands and Baleful Strix.
What has been working for everyone else lately?
@racing089 how does this list hold up against a Blood Moon. I still run 3x Pentad Prism for those matchups and to assure I can get G mana for Abrupt Decay post side. Any issues casting spells without Prism, Spire of Industry, and only 2 Mox Opal? I'm retooling once again. Cracked a foil Sai, Master Thopterist so I'm trying him out as a 1 of. I'll post a list when I'm at a computer. I'm reworking the sideboard for the recommended Phyrexian Revoker and possibly some # of Surgical Extraction
The problem is that grixis doesnt have good ways to remove enchantments, that can be sided vs us (stony, RiP), splashing for decay is really painful (though i tried), so im consider to switch into UWR version since white provides best sideboard options, smth like that
In side we can have wear//tear's, detention sphere's and other stuff to answer postboard hate.
So we are loosing all the discard (bad in combo-heavy meta), tezzerets (anyway, i dont thing they are really good in t3 kill format), brutalities (love them) and replace Time Sieve with KCI (i still think that time sieve is better, because with KCI you dont win the turn you land it, and my meta can deal with infinite hp and thopters).
I like the idea of your jeskai list, but if you're going to play that much spot removal, at least turn some of it into lightning helix to help out vs burn and aggro. Also, with zero planeswalkers to ramp into, why play pentad prism over something like chromatic star, which you can play turn 1 and sac to foundry to get a sword back you discarded with looting?
@pasngr46n2: I found the 10 sources of green I am running to be adequate. You almost never need Abrupt Decay on turn 2. You can continue to deploy all of your cards into Stony Silence and Rest in Peace before removing the hate on a later turn. In addition to that I am not sure we even need the green splash anymore. The prominent white decks are not playing Stony Silence and only some are playing Rest in Peace. The only reason I am still running it is because the 1x Breeding Pool is very nearly free.
Blood Moon isn't much of an issue. You need one of each basic or a basic + Mox Opal to cast every card in the deck but Whir of Invention. If you fetch duals and get caught off guard in game one you can lose to it but once you are prepared post board it should be easy.
I am going to play with Sai in a standard build but I think playing a main deck creature in our list is not good. It will just be a magnet for every piece of removal they have and makes sideboarding into creatures worse because they will leave in more creature removal.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
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Hey everyone, check out this traditional Tezzerator deck I'm working on called Agents of Artifice, named after Tezzeret, Jace and Liliana. The plan is to get behind a bridge and grind the opponent out with Planeswalkers and board wipes. This is mostly for FNM type encounters, and when I want to switch things up, I have a transformative sideboard with the thopter-sword combo. Let me know what you like or hate, because I'm still trying to iron it out. Thanks.
Im going to pptq in modern in two weeks and was hoping to get your guys opinion on my current list. My current thoughts are cut 1 Tezzeret, add 1 Darkslick Shores (so far I wasnt runing it cause I couldnt find one to buy :p) and.. and im not sure. I was thinking about time sieve/ KCI but they seem a bit "win more" to me. Did you guys had any really positive experience with it?
Also not sure about 3 Abrupt in side and im considering adding 1 Damping Sphere to main (what to cut)
This list over here has been giving me okey results in my local tournaments, snatched a couple of wins when I played okey, but as always it was very punishing when I made mistakes.
Also while I'm at it Tron is a horrible matchup for me, I win one of five games against or something any advice here? How to play around O Stone without needle etc, how to side.d
I like your list a lot; it’s very similar to mine so maybe that’s why. Differences being Tezz main vs. more thopter/sword pieces, INQ/SV main vs more toolbox pieces, and minor land tweaks.
Tezz: I’m very confident in not running Tezz main as it isn’t necessary in most game 1 scenarios and I’d rather assemble combo ASAP. The exception being G Tron. My personal preference is to give up some win % in my worst matchup to game % against every other top 20 deck (UW control is a possible exception).
INQ/SV: more toolbox targets helps turbo out the combo faster and give hosers to various matchups. This is personal preference and can’t fault the INQ/SV although I think it’s slightly less effective overall. I do recommend KCI, Damping, and Graf and welding jar to a lesser extent.
Swamp/dark steel citadel: I just don’t think either of these are necessary and the times they hurt Whir far outweigh the times they help me. Mox/pentad/talisman renders blood moon and choke ineffective (swamp inclusion) although I very occasionally give up 2 life and citadel getting shut down my stony/kataki usually hurts. The only matchups where Tezz animate is a must have are UW and Tron, both of which have ways to remove the citadel. I think the 2nd breeding pool is useful against FoR and darkslick is an auto 4 of.
I think your SB is solid but I would cut damnation for torpor orb. I’d switch your silver bullets (graf, needle, jar) with Tezz if you increase TF/sword
Trav34 made some good points. Just to add, absolutely go to 4 foundries. There's a reason combo decks run 4 copies of their most important spell. I'd cut down on the colorless lands, and definitely move most/all tezzes to the side - which can become damping sphere and KCI main (tezz is more of a win-more card in game one than those 2 cards that can beat tron and storm). I personally like the discard/visions, but I think thoughtseize is more important than inquisition, because it helps against the tough matchups, taking tron payoff spells, cryptic command, teferi, gifts ungiven, and prime time. Lastly, battle at the bridge is a very good sideboard spell in matchups where you need it.
@HILTONMODE Meltiin has a very tuned version of the Planeswalker/bridge plan you’re going for. Search for him at mtggoldfish to get ideas. After some expereince with the combo deck and the Planeswalker strategy I think your plan can work, but by having no fast outs to a game you’re going to take the full beating from every deck you play, which means every square inch of your deck needs to be answer cards. With that many planeswalkers you’ll need 4 collective brutalities to ever get under bridge in time. As for sideboarding into the combo - I think it’s a really bad idea. The reason the combo version isn’t tier one is because the artifact hate in modern is too good and in EVERY sodeboard you run into. Game one is usually the easiest win with an ertifact deck. If anything I’d recommend transforming into your PW plan in games 2-3 and basically not relying on activating an artifact in those games.
@boomforest: I wouldn't say the artifact hate is what makes this deck incapable of tier 1. In my opinion it simply isn't powerful enough. All of the other tiered decks in modern do WAY more powerful things then we are doing. 5 thopters/5 life by the end of turn 4 is much worse then killing your opponent by the end of turn 4. Not to say artifact hate isn't a contributing factor but it certainly isn't the major limitation on the archetype currently.
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Im going to pptq in modern in two weeks and was hoping to get your guys opinion on my current list. My current thoughts are cut 1 Tezzeret, add 1 Darkslick Shores (so far I wasnt runing it cause I couldnt find one to buy :p) and.. and im not sure. I was thinking about time sieve/ KCI but they seem a bit "win more" to me. Did you guys had any really positive experience with it?
Also not sure about 3 Abrupt in side and im considering adding 1 Damping Sphere to main (what to cut)
This list over here has been giving me okey results in my local tournaments, snatched a couple of wins when I played okey, but as always it was very punishing when I made mistakes.
Also while I'm at it Tron is a horrible matchup for me, I win one of five games against or something any advice here? How to play around O Stone without needle etc, how to side.d
I like your list a lot; it’s very similar to mine so maybe that’s why. Differences being Tezz main vs. more thopter/sword pieces, INQ/SV main vs more toolbox pieces, and minor land tweaks.
Tezz: I’m very confident in not running Tezz main as it isn’t necessary in most game 1 scenarios and I’d rather assemble combo ASAP. The exception being G Tron. My personal preference is to give up some win % in my worst matchup to game % against every other top 20 deck (UW control is a possible exception).
INQ/SV: more toolbox targets helps turbo out the combo faster and give hosers to various matchups. This is personal preference and can’t fault the INQ/SV although I think it’s slightly less effective overall. I do recommend KCI, Damping, and Graf and welding jar to a lesser extent.
Swamp/dark steel citadel: I just don’t think either of these are necessary and the times they hurt Whir far outweigh the times they help me. Mox/pentad/talisman renders blood moon and choke ineffective (swamp inclusion) although I very occasionally give up 2 life and citadel getting shut down my stony/kataki usually hurts. The only matchups where Tezz animate is a must have are UW and Tron, both of which have ways to remove the citadel. I think the 2nd breeding pool is useful against FoR and darkslick is an auto 4 of.
I think your SB is solid but I would cut damnation for torpor orb. I’d switch your silver bullets (graf, needle, jar) with Tezz if you increase TF/sword
Good luck at the event!
@Tav34, this is also very close to my list and I have some questions pre PPTQ season. What are your thoughts on including Fatal pushes? what are they good for in the first game? also what are you thoughts on no baubles?
For sidboard what do you think of herald of anguish? Also I have never had good luck with Padeem, what is his role is in the board?
It feels weird moving tez to the side after he is the reason I started on this deck, but I believe that it is the right meta call right now.
@Tav34, this is also very close to my list and I have some questions pre PPTQ season. What are your thoughts on including Fatal pushes? what are they good for in the first game? also what are you thoughts on no baubles?
For sidboard what do you think of herald of anguish? Also I have never had good luck with Padeem, what is his role is in the board?
It feels weird moving tez to the side after he is the reason I started on this deck, but I believe that it is the right meta call right now.
Fatal push gives you a strong chance against hyper fast game 1 decks where bridge and combo are gonna be too slow. Again I prefer to have great matchups against most of the top 15 and give up % against Tron/Control. I’ve trimmed down to 1 currently though and 0-1 in the board since I’m facing more control locally. Up to you and your knowledge of your meta game.
Bauble is an auto include x4 for me. I’m on the turbo variety (pentad) and ramping whirs is just too important for me. I love herald of anguish but the best matchups for it are Tron and Control. Unfortunately, Control keeps removal in against me every single time in my experience so until that changes I’m not running them. I’ve been leaning on Tezz/Liliana/Thoughtseize instead but wish it were good enough. Padeem has been far too narrow in my experience. When it’s good it’s your best card, but often it just gets removed or is too slow to matter. I prefer consistency and wide applicability.
I echo Battle at the Bridge praise. That card has been absurd as a 1 of every time. I wouldn’t run more than 1 in the board though.
@racing089 if there was an enchantment that said 1W all creatures are 0/1s and lose all abilities you’d be hard pressed to find a tier 1 deck with creatures. You might be right about the power level, but our opinions are not mutually exclusive.
can someone explain to me lilli's role in the side? I have one of her and have tried to play her, but I have trouble finding the right situation to put her on the board and what match ups she is really good in.
Lilli out of the side puts you in a position to grind the game down. She’s good enough that if the meta shifts she’ll be able to go in the main, but for now you can bring her in against control and midrange. Potentially even combo depending on how much hand disruption you run naturally.
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1x Chromatic Star
1x Damping Sphere
2x Ensnaring Bridge
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Krark-Clan Ironworks
4x Mishra's Bauble
2x Mox Opal
1x Pithing Needle
3x Sword of the Meek
3x Thopter Foundry
1x Welding Jar
Planeswalker (2)
2x Karn, Scion of Urza
Land (22)
1x Academy Ruins
1x Darksteel Citadel
4x Flooded Strand
1x Gemstone Caverns
3x Glimmervoid
2x Hallowed Fountain
1x Inventors' Fair
2x Island
4x Polluted Delta
3x Seachrome Coast
2x Cryptic Command
2x Metallic Rebuke
1x Muddle the Mixture
3x Opt
4x Path to Exile
4x Whir of Invention
1x Blessed Alliance
2x Ceremonious Rejection
2x Detention Sphere
1x Ghirapur AEther Grid
1x Negate
1x Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1x Phyrexian Revoker
1x Pithing Needle
1x Relic of Progenitus
1x Settle the Wreckage
1x Spellskite
1x Supreme Verdict
1x Timely Reinforcements
@racing089 how does this list hold up against a Blood Moon. I still run 3x Pentad Prism for those matchups and to assure I can get G mana for Abrupt Decay post side. Any issues casting spells without Prism, Spire of Industry, and only 2 Mox Opal? I'm retooling once again. Cracked a foil Sai, Master Thopterist so I'm trying him out as a 1 of. I'll post a list when I'm at a computer. I'm reworking the sideboard for the recommended Phyrexian Revoker and possibly some # of Surgical Extraction
2x Collective Brutality
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Faithless Looting
1x Ghirapur AEther Grid
2x Glimmervoid
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Inventors' Fair
2x Island
3x Izzet Charm
3x Mishra's Bauble
2x Misty Rainforest
3x Mox Opal
2x Pentad Prism
1x Pithing Needle
3x Polluted Delta
2x Scalding Tarn
1x Search for Azcanta
2x Steam Vents
1x Swamp
4x Sword of the Meek
2x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
4x Thopter Foundry
4x Thoughtseize
1x Time Sieve
2x Watery Grave
4x Whir of Invention
The problem is that grixis doesnt have good ways to remove enchantments, that can be sided vs us (stony, RiP), splashing for decay is really painful (though i tried), so im consider to switch into UWR version since white provides best sideboard options, smth like that
2x Ensnaring Bridge
4x Faithless Looting
2x Ghirapur AEther Grid
1x Grafdigger's Cage
3x Izzet Charm
1x Krark-Clan Ironworks
2x Lightning Bolt
3x Mishra's Bauble
3x Mox Opal
2x Path to Exile
2x Pentad Prism
1x Pithing Needle
1x Search for Azcanta
4x Sword of the Meek
4x Thopter Foundry
4x Whir of Invention
In side we can have wear//tear's, detention sphere's and other stuff to answer postboard hate.
So we are loosing all the discard (bad in combo-heavy meta), tezzerets (anyway, i dont thing they are really good in t3 kill format), brutalities (love them) and replace Time Sieve with KCI (i still think that time sieve is better, because with KCI you dont win the turn you land it, and my meta can deal with infinite hp and thopters).
Whats your opinion about lists?
PS Sorry for my bad English
Blood Moon isn't much of an issue. You need one of each basic or a basic + Mox Opal to cast every card in the deck but Whir of Invention. If you fetch duals and get caught off guard in game one you can lose to it but once you are prepared post board it should be easy.
I am going to play with Sai in a standard build but I think playing a main deck creature in our list is not good. It will just be a magnet for every piece of removal they have and makes sideboarding into creatures worse because they will leave in more creature removal.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Breeding Pool
3 Watery Grave
1 Academy Ruins
1 Flooded Strand
4 Polluted Delta
2 Spire of Industry
2 Island
1 Swamp
Artifact
4 Ensnaring Bridge
2 Talisman of Dominance
2 Welding Jar
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Torpor Orb
1 Pithing Needle
1 Darksteel Citadel
4 Mox Opal
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damping Sphere
2 Abrupt Decay
Sorcery
2 Thoughtseize
2 Collective Brutality
3 Damnation
Planeswalker
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Tezzeret the Seeker
3 Liliana of the Veil
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Whir of Invention
4 Serum Visions
I like your list a lot; it’s very similar to mine so maybe that’s why. Differences being Tezz main vs. more thopter/sword pieces, INQ/SV main vs more toolbox pieces, and minor land tweaks.
Tezz: I’m very confident in not running Tezz main as it isn’t necessary in most game 1 scenarios and I’d rather assemble combo ASAP. The exception being G Tron. My personal preference is to give up some win % in my worst matchup to game % against every other top 20 deck (UW control is a possible exception).
INQ/SV: more toolbox targets helps turbo out the combo faster and give hosers to various matchups. This is personal preference and can’t fault the INQ/SV although I think it’s slightly less effective overall. I do recommend KCI, Damping, and Graf and welding jar to a lesser extent.
Swamp/dark steel citadel: I just don’t think either of these are necessary and the times they hurt Whir far outweigh the times they help me. Mox/pentad/talisman renders blood moon and choke ineffective (swamp inclusion) although I very occasionally give up 2 life and citadel getting shut down my stony/kataki usually hurts. The only matchups where Tezz animate is a must have are UW and Tron, both of which have ways to remove the citadel. I think the 2nd breeding pool is useful against FoR and darkslick is an auto 4 of.
I think your SB is solid but I would cut damnation for torpor orb. I’d switch your silver bullets (graf, needle, jar) with Tezz if you increase TF/sword
Good luck at the event!
Best of luck and keep us posted on your findings!
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
@Tav34, this is also very close to my list and I have some questions pre PPTQ season. What are your thoughts on including Fatal pushes? what are they good for in the first game? also what are you thoughts on no baubles?
For sidboard what do you think of herald of anguish? Also I have never had good luck with Padeem, what is his role is in the board?
It feels weird moving tez to the side after he is the reason I started on this deck, but I believe that it is the right meta call right now.
Fatal push gives you a strong chance against hyper fast game 1 decks where bridge and combo are gonna be too slow. Again I prefer to have great matchups against most of the top 15 and give up % against Tron/Control. I’ve trimmed down to 1 currently though and 0-1 in the board since I’m facing more control locally. Up to you and your knowledge of your meta game.
Bauble is an auto include x4 for me. I’m on the turbo variety (pentad) and ramping whirs is just too important for me. I love herald of anguish but the best matchups for it are Tron and Control. Unfortunately, Control keeps removal in against me every single time in my experience so until that changes I’m not running them. I’ve been leaning on Tezz/Liliana/Thoughtseize instead but wish it were good enough. Padeem has been far too narrow in my experience. When it’s good it’s your best card, but often it just gets removed or is too slow to matter. I prefer consistency and wide applicability.
I echo Battle at the Bridge praise. That card has been absurd as a 1 of every time. I wouldn’t run more than 1 in the board though.
I do want to try Liliana sometime but $$$