Cutting Tezzeret from the Tezzeret deck is clearly a bad idea. If you are going to cut Tezzeret go play Lantern(and even they play 2 in the sideboard). If you want to play Tezzeretless Prison but include other walkers try out blue moon or RW Prison.
I saw someone said they cut Tezzeret in the Jund matchup?! He is ridiculously good in the Jund match. If you are getting attacked by big dudes you are already losing. They don't have enough removal to beat your bridges, welding jars, Thopter Foundry's, (redundant copies of each with Whir of Invention) and your hand disruption while also immediately killing Tezzeret. After sideboard most of the terminates and fatal pushes are gone so making 5/5's is a very effective game plan. Jund is a game of attrition and they think they have the better attrition deck, but we are the Jace the Mind Sculptor, Tezzeret Agent of Bolas deck. YOU are the better attrition deck. Out of the sideboard I also play Padeem, Spellskite, and another Welding Jar. I find the matchup to be very favorable and haven't dropped more than a handuful of games to Jund since Thopter/Sword unbanning.
Mostly some mana base changes to aid in casting post board damnation. I found that even in Blood Moon games I didn't want to fetch my basic swamp because it would prevent me from casting a fast Whir of Invention. Ghost Quarter was swapped for a Darksteel Citadel when i added another Mox Opal in place of a Talisman to aid with more consistent metalcraft.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I'll echo the other Old schoolers here saying that Tezz is still a powerhouse in the shell. Set up right, he's one of the strongest things (one-turn clock, card advantage engine, etc. etc. etc.) -- Good stuff even against Jund, yes.
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MODERN Blue Lantern, UBx Tezzerator. OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I have to advocate for Academy ruins here. It's not as good as inventor's fair, but it does great job locking up the game. It make welding jar or bridge come back to make sure you outrun your opponent's removals, rebuy cards like jester's cap and (as we have a deck with a lot of power disparity between our best card and our worse)it help be sure that we draw our good cards instead of inefficient ones. It is a nice option to have if we draw an expedition map late in the game.
The thing that goes against Ruins is that it's good in so few MUs. It has to be considered as a spell, and play or cut it according to the metagame we expect. It's a worse citadel in fast environments.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Mainly:
@racing089
@Disgruntled Egg
And to whom may interest:
Since my last and first tournament which I made 0-3 was thinking about the deck and seeing opinions around here and started from a beggining, because I found that each UB has a specific and beatifull direction the designer gives to the deck and is quite specific when comparing to other decks in the meta and I needed to give a specific direction because I was agreeing with things but others not and others stuff I found out by myslef in testing I made.
So I am going to relate my second tournamnet a litle to a 4-0 1st just loosing 1 match up among the 9 I faced. First thanks to all the advices from you guys!
Reasonings - there are lots more but these are mainly:
- I found that the deck wins most of the time because of Foundry or Bridge or Tezz so just dedicate the most cards possible to this, so I need redundancy as much as posible on this. the deck is all about redundancy even at finding bullets.
- Mox is just key and I wanted to make it the best card so means maximicing the nº of artifacts and cantrips - at first I tested 3 but 4 is what I wanted and also 4 Citadel
- I found the lack of answers to creatures in the deck reactively - mainly D.C. and other utility creaures (thalia, Devoted Druid, hierarchs, etc) were my concern, but also wanted to play discard - I found then Collective to be the answer - this also takes out Cryptic, which IoK does not. CB also is great at gaining time vs some decks and fine vs control. it can also end games that tezz could not.
- I finally took out A.Ruins and same as for Jace, guys by here were right on Jace - it is just not needed, and the same I found for A.Ruins we have so much redundancy that is not needed at all - it could be needed for 2nd or 3rd games but I also I do not want to be investing my mana in activating Ruins and effectively it resulted in that way and it is just a clunky 1 of that cannot be fetched unless you play Map - which I don't want as Map is bad if only used to find Ruins...
- Therefore and as Racing stated I wanted to be the more blue colored for whirs and at the same time maximicing the most Opal.
- at first I wanted something to seal the game and tried KCI, but it couldn't be cast in early turns and it was not as definitive as Time Sieve so I changed to this. I defenitevly prefer Time Sieve.
the games:
1- vs a deck that had Blood Moon both thalias and Blade Splicer.
it was 2-0 the 1st game was key Mox and CB to handle thalia, next Thopters plus Bridge sealed the game even with a late landed Blood moon.
2nd game I suspected Stony and what was curious was that I made a litle mistake but at some point I was able to cast decay and next win. the key factor in here was Tezz as he was able to win me the game under Stony and smashed his Nahiri at the same time.
2nd game was vs Bogles:
In here Bridge 1st game was game, 2nd game I was smahed by a bogle with 3 rancor and an snchamntn that provides +1+1 for each other enchanmnt,
3rd game I made again a mistake with nedle as I didnt expect Seal but any way I sided in more Jars - again Bridge sealed the game.
3rd game was vs Eldrazis - the 1st game I have no idea what he was on, I thought it was any knid of white-black with lilis so I named lili - and neither see in both games Vial... a protected Brdge was key in here in both games here i also saw stonys but decay helped me on this matter. I should have took out all the Jars.
4th game was vs faeries which I believe is not a good match up as didnt like the role I had to accomplish in here - thoper + sword and in resp Time Sieve were key in here - also Collectives were fine.
NOTES:
- 4 match ups are not enough to reach much conclusions but some are - I even made lots of errors both siding and naming with nedle for example I had to have named Displacer when facing eldrazi or vial also.
- Opal is key it gains you velocity also I am happy to see Serums.
- Fetch+Bauble is even better than opt! will stay on fetches manabase also.
- Collective was fine - it acts as a substitute to discard and kill creatures and gains time when needed and in cojunction to 4 decays I total have 8 anti hatebears - Decay was great as I found most of the time siding in the 4 massively - they were key to be played under thalia as example to stony/hatebear
- Didn't miss at all Jace or Ruins and really felt the 8 costs 0 artifact+Opal+Serum synergy
- Really Nihil main is not better than Relic and now I even don't play Ruins I will substitute it by Relic
- I found Padeem to be a really good card so I incremented it to 2 as it acts as a Draw engine and protector but really did not have any chance to play it.
- Didn't play Damping Sphere at all and I side it out in all of my match ups. but well will stay in as it is key vs the ones I didn't face!
- I really would like to fit in 1 more discard and 3rd Bridge - they will be the 76 and 77 cards I will put... maybe take out 1 jar...
Well thanks to you all for putting me in the good way guys!
and thanks for reading. will keep you up to date with my progress!
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I am a Dedicated Storm Player - Yes only in Legacy...
Sunken Ruins doesn't make a ton of sense to me. Are you planning on aggressively fetching islands? Darkslick Shores seems just as reasonable. Also I like to copy the 2/2 glimmervoid/spire of industry split that affinity runs. Casting thopter foundry on T2 with no artifacts is very nice.
Cutting Tezzeret from the Tezzeret deck is clearly a bad idea.
Tezz is a 4-mana must-answer threat. Like I said in another post, I was having great success with 3 maindeck just a few weeks ago. I've also gone down to as few as 1 Tezz maindeck in metas where I feel there's a lot of aggro and combo, and now that some of us are testing a spell that can dig for planeswalkers in a meta full of aggro, cutting Tezz numbers may be correct. No one was really advocating cutting to 0, but to ask the question is a healthy question to ask, as Tezz is far more win-con and less backbone utility.
If you are going to cut Tezzeret go play Lantern(and even they play 2 in the sideboard). If you want to play Tezzeretless Prison but include other walkers try out blue moon or RW Prison.
This is just kind of silly. What if someone wants to play Tezz without the planeswalker? They should go play a vastly different decklist?
About the Jund matchup - what I said is there is a lot of aggro and jund online now, and that I've been boarding out Tezz a lot. I don't board out Tezz vs Jund. But I almost never minus him, because having the artifact decayed/pulsed/grudged/pushed/lili'd and then having Tezz attacked and killed is too much of a risky card-disadvantage play.
I think it is incorrect to say Tezz is a better grinding/attrition deck than Jund (in the head-to-head matchup). Out of your list, you play 5 planeswalkers maindeck that represent card advantage, as well as the combo, which we'll call 4 foundries/4 whir/3 bridge. They play 4 Bob, 4 Bloodbraid, 1-2 Pulse, 1-2 Kommand, 3-4 Lili. That's about even, or weighted slightly toward Jund. Out of the board you're bringing in 1 Padeem, and they're bringing in 2 grudge, and possibly another Kommand. I mean, it's too simplistic to just count the number of card advantage cards, as both decks have "answers" to those cards, like needle, scooze, and kommand. When we beat Jund, it's sometimes because we draw more grinding pieces than they do, but often it's because we snowball better than they do. Once we get enough 1/1's, we win the game. That's why I've put 2 souls in my board. Even then, the attrition battle is still pretty even.
Tezz is a 4-mana must-answer threat. Like I said in another post, I was having great success with 3 maindeck just a few weeks ago. I've also gone down to as few as 1 Tezz maindeck in metas where I feel there's a lot of aggro and combo, and now that some of us are testing a spell that can dig for planeswalkers in a meta full of aggro, cutting Tezz numbers may be correct. No one was really advocating cutting to 0, but to ask the question is a healthy question to ask, as Tezz is far more win-con and less backbone utility.
I'm with you at a certain degree :
Tezz has never been a 4-of in any of my lists for longer than a week. It's a card I never want in my opener besides the Tron MU (or similar linear deck like Ad Naus), because making 5/5s is suddenly relevant, and I want a clock asap. Reality is Tezz is never fast enough to consistently win against decks that don't care about Bridge. When it is, you may thank the Divine (or your god opener with an active Mox by Turn 2, which is the same to my eyes).
I always advocated for 3 copies, not speaking of the fact it's uncastable early, either because I don't have the mana, or because I can't protect it. It's only good when Bridge or Foundry + Sword is already on the bf. Tezz is also weak to Stony Silence in the sense that many builds are, so it's hard to cast one when a couple mana sources are stone rained to begin with.Not saying he's uncastable, but we lost games and matches with Tezz in hand before, right ?
I'd rather have more Foundries G1, for I can protect them with Skite / Jar, fetch them with Whir / Fair, and recur them with Ruins. In that sense, KCI and Sieve are better with Whir and possibly the better 3rd combo piece, over Tezz's ultimate.
In a Board the Weatherlight list, I'm with you on cutting Tezz down to 2 copies. I wouldn't go to 0-1 copy though, until proven there's a better wincon in these slots. That's the kind of build where The Antiquities War or Padeem, Consul of Innovation must be tested main deck.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
Pelikanudo your list is very close to where I ended with this deck. I ran 1 or 2 middle the mixture in a couple of your brutality spots and only two tezz main, i think one grafdiggers cage main is also needed as it stops some combo decks you otherwise lose to, but the principle is the same. Streamline game one into combo and bridge with a few bullets and a planes walkers backup plan. Game two I could never reliably beat the hate. Ancient grudge in particular is very hard to beat.
I do like academy ruins just for making time sieve infinite, but I could see cutting it with more citadels instead.
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Modern
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
I haven't tested him yet but I think Karn could be main board material. He does not necessarily draw you cards. Yes, mid to late game he would and getting rid of the additional card at that point would / should not be an issue which makes him a vital piece in long grindy games. Early on if you need to get under a bridge simply create a Construct instead which should be an easy 3/3 even 4/4 by turn 3. He needs to be answered and chaining him with Ashiok (I run 1 MB) or Tezz would make for a VERY tough board state for our opponent while we continue to setup the thopter / swords combo.
Still trying to work out the sideboard but I will definitely be trying this at some local events.
Whir has put some constraints on deckbuilding, by cutting it I can play more utility lands and better mana rocks. Tezzeret the Seeker is also way more powerful than Whir. It can get thopter sword on it's own. Or bridge + a jar to protect it.
Been a while! Congrats on the recent success and unbanning. This deck has always been my favorite in the format and that it’s now competitive is in large part to the hard work from you guys. I’ve been Testing again recently and think the new low curve combo focus is great. KCI has been a very common way to sneak out easy t4 wins for me.
I’m still having a hard time with Jund, blood moon effects, mono red, hollow one, to name a few.
One of the biggest issues I think this deck still has is that sideboard options aren’t very versatile for a quasi control build.
I’ve startes running battle of the bridge instead of fatal push ( I basically run @disgruntledElk list ) because hitting 4 lidegain is huge against all the goblins and aggro, and it can take out hollow one.
I’m also considering sultai charm for the versatility. I think I’d always prefer it to abrupt decay. . Hits stony silence, blood moon, random annoying artifacts, kills creatures, and worst case finds some options. Let me know what you guys think, sorry for the rambling.
EDIT: I'm now realizing decay hits those enchantments as well, so I think all sultai gets you is an option to draw 2 ( maybe pitch a sword ), and it hits hollow one, etc. but I think I'd just rather have more battle at the bridge in that matchup
Been a while since I posted but I lurk! Here’s where I’m at these days. Focused game 1 plan of bridge thopters and switch to a control deck game 2-3 typically. On Tezz, I find him only really shining in game 1 against midrange decks, but thopters crush those already game 1. Id rather force them to bolt thopters and not protect him. I took gcage out for 2 weeks and got completely punished. Storm is a good matchup now and being pushed out, but counters company, elves, and GW value have been active so its back in.
Search is great, especially game 2 when im a control deck. I’ve replaced SV with it and been much happier. I dont wanna run the crucible package but nothing else excited me here. Padeem no longer works for me locally since everyone anticipates me bringing him in but I would probably play him at a big tourney. I think the meta is also less kind to him in general. Spellskite is overperforming and i highly recommend him in your SB.
3rd watery grave should maybe be drowned catacomb. 3rd Tezz maybe should be another threat to diversify, likely Jace/herald but 3rd tezz is still good when needed. Academy is very good, I use it a lot. Especially with Search and CoBru. Fair is close in power but I find academy wins me games I shouldnt while Fair Wins games I’m already in control of.
Don’t oversideboard (i.e. board out all mana rocks vs. every white deck). Artifact count still matters even if the cards are dead; they dont always have it (stony) and when they do AD/MP can mitigate. My most common way of losing games 2/3 is having a glut of 3-4 drops in my hand and not enough time to deploy/empty. GQ in board helps when I do take out mana rocks as does Search (flipped).
Not budget at all, just a standard, grindy non-whir build.
@Trav34 - If Padeem is expected in your local meta, and people are keeping in creature removal, try using Curator's Ward instead. I've ran it a few times now, and it's versatile. If it resolves on a bridge, it's hard for certain decks that only have artifact removal and burn to come back from. Also, it can be used as a "draw 2 spell" if you put it on a bauble or sac a citadel to foundry. I've even had it on Tezz and Padeem, which is sweet!
Recent tech update - I made a build centered on Ideas Unbound and went 4-1 with it. Man is it smooth! The basic list:
The idea is to maximize draws containing a sword of the meek, hence the 4 swords and the 3 Steelshaper's Gift. Then, either cast a foundry or an Ideas Unbound on turn 2, discarding swords/lingering souls. On turn 3, you can cast souls triggering a sword, or start the combo off of something like a bauble. This all may sound strange, but there are some ridiculous value/tempo plays to be had, similar to what Grixis Pyromancer does. It wasn't uncommon for me to get a 1/1 flier with 2 sword triggers on it on turn 3, and a 3/5 can block hollow one really well. And having all those lingering souls meant I was basically pre-boarded for Jund, which was just sweet.
Later in the game, Ideas Unbound basically read: UU Draw 3 cards, with 0 chance of having lands stuck in hand for bridge. Ideas just seems to play well with a bridge deck in general. There's no planeswalkers maindeck, but as an alt-wincon, I ran a few copies of Mechanized Production from the board which won easily behind a stony lock. Looking forward to getting in another league with the build.
Currently trying a hybrid of tezz and the ur prison. Haven't got a chance to try it yet but gold fishing has been promising. I really like the inclusion of 1 codex shredder to get bk whirs and walkers. And bringing it home with ruins. Also awhile bk I had a more all in deck with 4 prisms and opals whir 6 walkers and 2 reshapes. Reshape is actually an amazing card especially with prisms. It allows a t3 bridge and u only have to eat a now dead prism. Also ran a full compliment of ensoul artifacts side. It was fun and really good but I feel the prison style build is where I wanna be. Also battle at the bridge is amazing.
Also tcg requiem, racing, and systrill when are guys going to make more vids. I really enjoyed and appreciated your content.thank you for making the ones you did.
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Talk to affinity
I saw someone said they cut Tezzeret in the Jund matchup?! He is ridiculously good in the Jund match. If you are getting attacked by big dudes you are already losing. They don't have enough removal to beat your bridges, welding jars, Thopter Foundry's, (redundant copies of each with Whir of Invention) and your hand disruption while also immediately killing Tezzeret. After sideboard most of the terminates and fatal pushes are gone so making 5/5's is a very effective game plan. Jund is a game of attrition and they think they have the better attrition deck, but we are the Jace the Mind Sculptor, Tezzeret Agent of Bolas deck. YOU are the better attrition deck. Out of the sideboard I also play Padeem, Spellskite, and another Welding Jar. I find the matchup to be very favorable and haven't dropped more than a handuful of games to Jund since Thopter/Sword unbanning.
Here is my list for reference:
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Spire of Industry
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Watery Grave
Artifacts:
1 Damping Sphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sword of the Meek
2 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Welding Jar
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Serum Visions
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Thoughtseize
4 Whir of Invention
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
1 Damnation
1 Damping Sphere
2 Fatal Push
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Welding Jar
1 Witchbane Orb
Noteable changes:
+1 Dampening Sphere
+1 Sunken Ruins
+1 Darksteel Citadel
+1 Mox Opal
-1 Talisman of Dominace
-1 Swamp
-1 Ghost Quarter
-1 Fetchland
Mostly some mana base changes to aid in casting post board damnation. I found that even in Blood Moon games I didn't want to fetch my basic swamp because it would prevent me from casting a fast Whir of Invention. Ghost Quarter was swapped for a Darksteel Citadel when i added another Mox Opal in place of a Talisman to aid with more consistent metalcraft.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
@racing089
@Disgruntled Egg
And to whom may interest:
Since my last and first tournament which I made 0-3 was thinking about the deck and seeing opinions around here and started from a beggining, because I found that each UB has a specific and beatifull direction the designer gives to the deck and is quite specific when comparing to other decks in the meta and I needed to give a specific direction because I was agreeing with things but others not and others stuff I found out by myslef in testing I made.
So I am going to relate my second tournamnet a litle to a 4-0 1st just loosing 1 match up among the 9 I faced. First thanks to all the advices from you guys!
Reasonings - there are lots more but these are mainly:
- I found that the deck wins most of the time because of Foundry or Bridge or Tezz so just dedicate the most cards possible to this, so I need redundancy as much as posible on this. the deck is all about redundancy even at finding bullets.
- Mox is just key and I wanted to make it the best card so means maximicing the nº of artifacts and cantrips - at first I tested 3 but 4 is what I wanted and also 4 Citadel
- I found the lack of answers to creatures in the deck reactively - mainly D.C. and other utility creaures (thalia, Devoted Druid, hierarchs, etc) were my concern, but also wanted to play discard - I found then Collective to be the answer - this also takes out Cryptic, which IoK does not. CB also is great at gaining time vs some decks and fine vs control. it can also end games that tezz could not.
- I finally took out A.Ruins and same as for Jace, guys by here were right on Jace - it is just not needed, and the same I found for A.Ruins we have so much redundancy that is not needed at all - it could be needed for 2nd or 3rd games but I also I do not want to be investing my mana in activating Ruins and effectively it resulted in that way and it is just a clunky 1 of that cannot be fetched unless you play Map - which I don't want as Map is bad if only used to find Ruins...
- Therefore and as Racing stated I wanted to be the more blue colored for whirs and at the same time maximicing the most Opal.
- at first I wanted something to seal the game and tried KCI, but it couldn't be cast in early turns and it was not as definitive as Time Sieve so I changed to this. I defenitevly prefer Time Sieve.
There it goes then the list:
4 Collective Brutality
4 Serum Visions
4 Whir of Invention
2 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
1 Talisman of Dominance
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Welding Jar
1 Damping Sphere
1 Time Sieve
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Breeding Pool
3 Darkslick Shores
2 Flooded Strand
3 Island
4 Polluted Delta
2 Spire of Industry
2 Watery Grave
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Pithing Needle
1 Damping Sphere
1 Relic of Progenitus
1 Thoughtseize
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Spellskite
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
4 Abrupt Decay
2 Welding Jar
the games:
1- vs a deck that had Blood Moon both thalias and Blade Splicer.
it was 2-0 the 1st game was key Mox and CB to handle thalia, next Thopters plus Bridge sealed the game even with a late landed Blood moon.
2nd game I suspected Stony and what was curious was that I made a litle mistake but at some point I was able to cast decay and next win. the key factor in here was Tezz as he was able to win me the game under Stony and smashed his Nahiri at the same time.
2nd game was vs Bogles:
In here Bridge 1st game was game, 2nd game I was smahed by a bogle with 3 rancor and an snchamntn that provides +1+1 for each other enchanmnt,
3rd game I made again a mistake with nedle as I didnt expect Seal but any way I sided in more Jars - again Bridge sealed the game.
3rd game was vs Eldrazis - the 1st game I have no idea what he was on, I thought it was any knid of white-black with lilis so I named lili - and neither see in both games Vial... a protected Brdge was key in here in both games here i also saw stonys but decay helped me on this matter. I should have took out all the Jars.
4th game was vs faeries which I believe is not a good match up as didnt like the role I had to accomplish in here - thoper + sword and in resp Time Sieve were key in here - also Collectives were fine.
NOTES:
- 4 match ups are not enough to reach much conclusions but some are - I even made lots of errors both siding and naming with nedle for example I had to have named Displacer when facing eldrazi or vial also.
- Opal is key it gains you velocity also I am happy to see Serums.
- Fetch+Bauble is even better than opt! will stay on fetches manabase also.
- Collective was fine - it acts as a substitute to discard and kill creatures and gains time when needed and in cojunction to 4 decays I total have 8 anti hatebears - Decay was great as I found most of the time siding in the 4 massively - they were key to be played under thalia as example to stony/hatebear
- Didn't miss at all Jace or Ruins and really felt the 8 costs 0 artifact+Opal+Serum synergy
- Really Nihil main is not better than Relic and now I even don't play Ruins I will substitute it by Relic
- I found Padeem to be a really good card so I incremented it to 2 as it acts as a Draw engine and protector but really did not have any chance to play it.
- Didn't play Damping Sphere at all and I side it out in all of my match ups. but well will stay in as it is key vs the ones I didn't face!
- I really would like to fit in 1 more discard and 3rd Bridge - they will be the 76 and 77 cards I will put... maybe take out 1 jar...
Well thanks to you all for putting me in the good way guys!
and thanks for reading. will keep you up to date with my progress!
Tezz is a 4-mana must-answer threat. Like I said in another post, I was having great success with 3 maindeck just a few weeks ago. I've also gone down to as few as 1 Tezz maindeck in metas where I feel there's a lot of aggro and combo, and now that some of us are testing a spell that can dig for planeswalkers in a meta full of aggro, cutting Tezz numbers may be correct. No one was really advocating cutting to 0, but to ask the question is a healthy question to ask, as Tezz is far more win-con and less backbone utility.
This is just kind of silly. What if someone wants to play Tezz without the planeswalker? They should go play a vastly different decklist?
About the Jund matchup - what I said is there is a lot of aggro and jund online now, and that I've been boarding out Tezz a lot. I don't board out Tezz vs Jund. But I almost never minus him, because having the artifact decayed/pulsed/grudged/pushed/lili'd and then having Tezz attacked and killed is too much of a risky card-disadvantage play.
I think it is incorrect to say Tezz is a better grinding/attrition deck than Jund (in the head-to-head matchup). Out of your list, you play 5 planeswalkers maindeck that represent card advantage, as well as the combo, which we'll call 4 foundries/4 whir/3 bridge. They play 4 Bob, 4 Bloodbraid, 1-2 Pulse, 1-2 Kommand, 3-4 Lili. That's about even, or weighted slightly toward Jund. Out of the board you're bringing in 1 Padeem, and they're bringing in 2 grudge, and possibly another Kommand. I mean, it's too simplistic to just count the number of card advantage cards, as both decks have "answers" to those cards, like needle, scooze, and kommand. When we beat Jund, it's sometimes because we draw more grinding pieces than they do, but often it's because we snowball better than they do. Once we get enough 1/1's, we win the game. That's why I've put 2 souls in my board. Even then, the attrition battle is still pretty even.
I'm with you at a certain degree :
Tezz has never been a 4-of in any of my lists for longer than a week. It's a card I never want in my opener besides the Tron MU (or similar linear deck like Ad Naus), because making 5/5s is suddenly relevant, and I want a clock asap. Reality is Tezz is never fast enough to consistently win against decks that don't care about Bridge. When it is, you may thank the Divine (or your god opener with an active Mox by Turn 2, which is the same to my eyes).
I always advocated for 3 copies, not speaking of the fact it's uncastable early, either because I don't have the mana, or because I can't protect it. It's only good when Bridge or Foundry + Sword is already on the bf. Tezz is also weak to Stony Silence in the sense that many builds are, so it's hard to cast one when a couple mana sources are stone rained to begin with.Not saying he's uncastable, but we lost games and matches with Tezz in hand before, right ?
I'd rather have more Foundries G1, for I can protect them with Skite / Jar, fetch them with Whir / Fair, and recur them with Ruins. In that sense, KCI and Sieve are better with Whir and possibly the better 3rd combo piece, over Tezz's ultimate.
In a Board the Weatherlight list, I'm with you on cutting Tezz down to 2 copies. I wouldn't go to 0-1 copy though, until proven there's a better wincon in these slots. That's the kind of build where The Antiquities War or Padeem, Consul of Innovation must be tested main deck.
I do like academy ruins just for making time sieve infinite, but I could see cutting it with more citadels instead.
* Esper Draw-Go
* Tezzeret Whir
* Blue Tron
4 Mishra's Bauble
3 Mox Opal
1 Welding Jar
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Dimir Signet
2 Thopter Foundry
1 Sword of the Meek
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
1 Damping Sphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
4 Glint-Nest Crane
Sorceries / Instants
3 Collective Brutality
Planeswalkers
2 Liliana of the Veil
2 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
3 Tezzeret the Seeker
Lands
1 Academy Ruins
1 Inventor's Fair
3 Darksteel Citadel
3 Ghost Quarter
1 Creeping Tarpit
4 Darkslick Shores
1 Glimmervoid
1 Swamp
1 Island
4 Spire of Industry
1 Tolaria West
Still trying to work out the sideboard but I will definitely be trying this at some local events.
Whir has put some constraints on deckbuilding, by cutting it I can play more utility lands and better mana rocks. Tezzeret the Seeker is also way more powerful than Whir. It can get thopter sword on it's own. Or bridge + a jar to protect it.
Ux Whirza
Rb Goblins
Legacy
U Urza Stompy
Duel Commander
Sai, Master Thopterist
Been a while! Congrats on the recent success and unbanning. This deck has always been my favorite in the format and that it’s now competitive is in large part to the hard work from you guys. I’ve been Testing again recently and think the new low curve combo focus is great. KCI has been a very common way to sneak out easy t4 wins for me.
I’m still having a hard time with Jund, blood moon effects, mono red, hollow one, to name a few.
One of the biggest issues I think this deck still has is that sideboard options aren’t very versatile for a quasi control build.
I’ve startes running battle of the bridge instead of fatal push ( I basically run @disgruntledElk list ) because hitting 4 lidegain is huge against all the goblins and aggro, and it can take out hollow one.
I’m also considering sultai charm for the versatility. I think I’d always prefer it to abrupt decay. . Hits stony silence, blood moon, random annoying artifacts, kills creatures, and worst case finds some options. Let me know what you guys think, sorry for the rambling.
EDIT: I'm now realizing decay hits those enchantments as well, so I think all sultai gets you is an option to draw 2 ( maybe pitch a sword ), and it hits hollow one, etc. but I think I'd just rather have more battle at the bridge in that matchup
4 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
3 ensnaring bridge
1 krark-clan ironworks
1 damping sphere
2 pithing needle
2 welding jar
3 mox opal
4 mishra’s bauble
3 pentad prism
1 talisman of dominance
2 fatal push
1 collective brutality
1 search for azcanta
1 expedition map
1 relic of progenitus
1 bottled cloister
1 grafdigger’s cage
4 darkslick shores
3 watery grave
1 breeding pool
2 flooded strand
1 academy ruin
2 spire of industry
3 island
1 ghost quarter
3 tezzeret, agent of bolas
1 collective brutality
2 abrupt decay
1 maelstrom pulse
1 battle at the bridge
1 crucible of worlds
1 ghost quarter
1 damnation
1 spellskite
1 search for azcanta
1 ratchet bomb
1 fatal push
Been a while since I posted but I lurk! Here’s where I’m at these days. Focused game 1 plan of bridge thopters and switch to a control deck game 2-3 typically. On Tezz, I find him only really shining in game 1 against midrange decks, but thopters crush those already game 1. Id rather force them to bolt thopters and not protect him. I took gcage out for 2 weeks and got completely punished. Storm is a good matchup now and being pushed out, but counters company, elves, and GW value have been active so its back in.
Search is great, especially game 2 when im a control deck. I’ve replaced SV with it and been much happier. I dont wanna run the crucible package but nothing else excited me here. Padeem no longer works for me locally since everyone anticipates me bringing him in but I would probably play him at a big tourney. I think the meta is also less kind to him in general. Spellskite is overperforming and i highly recommend him in your SB.
3rd watery grave should maybe be drowned catacomb. 3rd Tezz maybe should be another threat to diversify, likely Jace/herald but 3rd tezz is still good when needed. Academy is very good, I use it a lot. Especially with Search and CoBru. Fair is close in power but I find academy wins me games I shouldnt while Fair Wins games I’m already in control of.
Don’t oversideboard (i.e. board out all mana rocks vs. every white deck). Artifact count still matters even if the cards are dead; they dont always have it (stony) and when they do AD/MP can mitigate. My most common way of losing games 2/3 is having a glut of 3-4 drops in my hand and not enough time to deploy/empty. GQ in board helps when I do take out mana rocks as does Search (flipped).
Cheers!
1x Academy Ruins
1x Blood Crypt
1x Darksteel Citadel
1x Ghost Quarter
2x Inventors' Fair
1x Island
3x Marsh Flats
4x Polluted Delta
1x Spire of Industry
4x Swamp
4x Temple of Deceit
1x Watery Grave
Enchantment (1)
1x Search for Azcanta
4x Ensnaring Bridge
2x Pithing Needle
3x Relic of Progenitus
2x Talisman of Dominance
1x Witchbane Orb
Sorcery (12)
4x Collective Brutality
3x Damnation
3x Inquisition of Kozilek
2x Thoughtseize
Planeswalker (10)
4x Liliana of the Veil
4x Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2x Tezzeret the Seeker
Creature (1)
1x Walking Ballista
1x Chalice of the Void
1x Crumble to Dust
1x Damnation
1x Damping Matrix
1x Damping Sphere
1x Etched Champion
1x Grafdigger's Cage
1x Night of Souls' Betrayal
1x Ratchet Bomb
1x Relic of Progenitus
2x Slaughter Games
1x Sorcerous Spyglass
1x Welding Jar
1x Witchbane Orb
@Trav34 - If Padeem is expected in your local meta, and people are keeping in creature removal, try using Curator's Ward instead. I've ran it a few times now, and it's versatile. If it resolves on a bridge, it's hard for certain decks that only have artifact removal and burn to come back from. Also, it can be used as a "draw 2 spell" if you put it on a bauble or sac a citadel to foundry. I've even had it on Tezz and Padeem, which is sweet!
Recent tech update - I made a build centered on Ideas Unbound and went 4-1 with it. Man is it smooth! The basic list:
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
4 Thopter Foundry
4 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
1 Damping Sphere
3 Ensnaring Bridge
Instants/Sorceries: 15
3 Steelshaper's Gift
1 Collective Brutality
4 Ideas Unbound
3 Lingering Souls
4 Whir of Invention
3 Darksteel Citadel
4 Spire of Industry
4 Flooded Strand
1 Polluted Delta
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Hallowed Fountain
1 Watery Grave
4 Island
1 Plains
4 Seachrome Coast
3 Detention Sphere
1 Invoke the Divine
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Damping Sphere
1 Phyrexian Revoker
3 Battle at the Bridge
1 Curator's Ward
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Mechanized Production
1 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
The idea is to maximize draws containing a sword of the meek, hence the 4 swords and the 3 Steelshaper's Gift. Then, either cast a foundry or an Ideas Unbound on turn 2, discarding swords/lingering souls. On turn 3, you can cast souls triggering a sword, or start the combo off of something like a bauble. This all may sound strange, but there are some ridiculous value/tempo plays to be had, similar to what Grixis Pyromancer does. It wasn't uncommon for me to get a 1/1 flier with 2 sword triggers on it on turn 3, and a 3/5 can block hollow one really well. And having all those lingering souls meant I was basically pre-boarded for Jund, which was just sweet.
Later in the game, Ideas Unbound basically read: UU Draw 3 cards, with 0 chance of having lands stuck in hand for bridge. Ideas just seems to play well with a bridge deck in general. There's no planeswalkers maindeck, but as an alt-wincon, I ran a few copies of Mechanized Production from the board which won easily behind a stony lock. Looking forward to getting in another league with the build.