You might be right about double Nahiri, but I just really want to test 1 Teferi. I've played 3 leagues so far with the new build, going 3-2, 2-3, and 4-1. I just missed out on 5-0, losing the 5th match to bogles of all things. >_< I've played Elves 3x, and Bogles twice, and I've really wanted a 3 cmc sweeper. 1-2 against Elves because they can be so frickin' fast (though I could have won one match if I had sequenced Needle on Ezuri first over bridge). I lost to Bogles because of Gaddock Teeg and because of Spider Umbra, so I'm really thinking about 2x Slaughter the Strong in the board. It doesn't clean up everything, but it cleans up a lot of things really well, including goyfs, shadow, angler, enchanted bogles, even ulamog. And you can play a Slobad (who has been really good) or Padeem first without losing them. It would be admittedly weak against BR hollow one, but we have a lot of weapons against them anyway.
Been doing more testing with all this Teferi/Nahiri discussion, and from what I've seen, I almost never want to board in Teferi over Nahiri. Here's a (rough) post-DOM decklist that I've been testing with.
Compass has been putting in work, and Board even more so. The only cards it doesn't hit mainboard are Battle, Whir, other Boards and any land that isn't Oboro, Citadel, and Ruins. Keeping a two land hand with mox, compass and board almost always has me ready for a turn 3 whir or tezz. Would not go under 4.
Edit: One thing I have been having some trouble with is deciding when to side in Slobad vs Padeem. Tezz is my first foray into modern, and to me slobad/padeem serve a similar role. Does anyone have any tips on this?
From my experience with both this deck and Ur Prison I would say that Padeem is better in situations where you need a fat booty to block and/or to draw cards. Slobad is good for Shatterstorm/Fracturing Gust decks (because those cards get past Padeem) and he is good against early Shattering Sprees.
Either way, most games you will end up boarding in pretty much all of your artifact protection anyway lol
Edit: One thing I have been having some trouble with is deciding when to side in Slobad vs Padeem. Tezz is my first foray into modern, and to me slobad/padeem serve a similar role. Does anyone have any tips on this?
I've been kind of having similar issues. I've seen a lot of shattering spree and even stuff like fracturing gust, recently. I've pretty much boarded Slobad in every matchup except Jund, Burn, and UW control, as Jund with Lili and burn have too many ways to kill him, and UW control exiles instead of destroys your stuff. Some matchups I board in both and take out planeswalkers, like against non-burn aggro where all you want to do is protect a bridge, or against storm where all you want to do is protect sphere.
One interesting trick I learned against burn is if you have a compass and a foundry and academy ruins, you can sac and recur the compass each turn for a net of 4 life each turn.
Re: Teferi/Nahiri - I have yet to resolve one so far in leagues, lol. There's been a lot of aggro, and the one U/W control match I won without them.
Either way, most games you will end up boarding in pretty much all of your artifact protection anyway lol
Then I guess my problem is siding things out. I know when to side out Damping Sphere, battle at the bridge, nihil spellbomb, and I have sided our Tezz in the past, but what else do I side out?
Siding is really matchup dependent, of course. You shouldn't have that much trouble finding the stuff to take out, though. In addition to what you listed, there's needle, KCI, bridges, some boards, opals, search...
The matchup that I'm having trouble with boarding against is Jund. Typically you want to take out opals against them, as you're not really ramping/racing them, and I've taken out some compasses, too. But then I'm getting colour screwed against them, and fulminator mage becomes backbreaking. I need to look at that matchup/board strategy again.
Also, Tezz himself has been a little lackluster in the new meta. So much aggro running around, and he's just meh against jund, as they're aleays going to have a threat to swing into, and you never want to animate a citadel for fear of lili minus. Lingering souls is looking better and better to me.
Is Navigator's compass really playable? I know we are desperate for 1 drops, but wasting a card on +3 life with some mediocre mana fixing seems weird (mediocre because it's also susceptible to Stony like Mox/Talisman/Pentad). It also feels like Board the Weatherlight is not significantly more powerful than Serum Visions.
Is Navigator's compass really playable? I know we are desperate for 1 drops, but wasting a card on +3 life with some mediocre mana fixing seems weird (mediocre because it's also susceptible to Stony like Mox/Talisman/Pentad). It also feels like Board the Weatherlight is not significantly more powerful than Serum Visions.
I am in agreement with you. I think Navigator's Compass is REALLY bad. Welding Jar, Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Mox Opal, Darksteel Citadel, Tormod's Crypt, Grafdigger's Cage are all cards I would play before sleeving up Navigator's Compass. Modern has proven time and time again that gaining life isn't good and when it is at its best (against burn) cards that only gain life still are not sideboarded to help with burn. You have to be getting a lot of value out of the color fixing. You would have to warp your entire deck around the card playing as many of the colorless utility lands you could. At that it doesn't help you cast Whir because you will need to tap it to make blue mana instead of for improvise. Overall seems like a poor choice.
Board the Weatherlight seems even worse then Serum Visions. Card selection is great because it smooths out your mana and then digs for action in the late game. Board the Weatherlight can't dig for lands and only goes 2 deeper than serum visions but costs twice as much mana.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I've been testing out Compass and Board the Weatherlight. I don't hate either of them, but I don't love them either. I do enjoy compass for just fixing the mana colours and I like that it's cheap. It kinda takes the spot of the 2 mana mana generators, which I haven't really liked all that much either, so I'm kinda OK with compass being just fixing and not ramp, but we'll see. We're pretty loaded on 2 drops, so more 1s is kinda nice, but a lot of time they just sit there and don't do much of anything. I'm leaning towards them not being good enough
Board the Weatherlight feels good, but a bit clunky and a bit slow. I do like that it's flexible. Between Darksteel Citadel, Academy Ruins, Inventor's Fair, and Oboro it's got 7 lands it can potentially get, as well as the Tezzerets and other potential sideboard stuff in addition to all the artifacts. I do like it more than Serum Visions, which I haven't really liked in awhile, but the real question is do I like it more than the other stuff I used to play in that slot like Collective Brutality and Chalice of the Void, or discard, etc. I'm still undecided, but so far the card has been pretty decent
I'm willing to look into Board the Weatherlight. Maybe going 3/2 Tezz/Jace for some mild selection, and perhaps some kind of silver bullet legendary creature like Geist that can close out Tron Matches especially quickly. Ethersworn Canonist is another card I like, but with KCI being the pseudo-storm deck of choice (and dying to bolt against regular storm) there's really no point.
I've been testing out Compass and Board the Weatherlight. I don't hate either of them, but I don't love them either. I do enjoy compass for just fixing the mana colours and I like that it's cheap. It kinda takes the spot of the 2 mana mana generators, which I haven't really liked all that much either, so I'm kinda OK with compass being just fixing and not ramp, but we'll see. We're pretty loaded on 2 drops, so more 1s is kinda nice, but a lot of time they just sit there and don't do much of anything. I'm leaning towards them not being good enough
Board the Weatherlight feels good, but a bit clunky and a bit slow. I do like that it's flexible. Between Darksteel Citadel, Academy Ruins, Inventor's Fair, and Oboro it's got 7 lands it can potentially get, as well as the Tezzerets and other potential sideboard stuff in addition to all the artifacts. I do like it more than Serum Visions, which I haven't really liked in awhile, but the real question is do I like it more than the other stuff I used to play in that slot like Collective Brutality and Chalice of the Void, or discard, etc. I'm still undecided, but so far the card has been pretty decent
What's your current list if I may ask and what do you plan to swap out for Damping Spheres?
Well, canonist has definitely been replaced by damping sphere. Board is good, and I think I also like it more than serum visions, which is at it's best for keeping land-light hands. Still, board is not a 4-of, but a 2-3. It's at its best vs midrange and control, and can be good at digging for bullets vs combo, but I've been boarding it out vs aggro. It's a flexible card that can get mana for you on turn 3 if you missed a land drop, and just geta better the longer the game goes as you gain more draws/information.
Compass is really hard to evaluate. Sometimes it's really good, buying you time and fixing your mana while you curve into stuff. We really are hungry for 1-drop artifacts. Sometimes you just need that 1-drop artifact to turn into a thopter to keep you alive with foundry before sword comes online. Compass does this job very well, and its lifegain isn't irrelevant. Sometimes you need to curve out perfectly to get under bridge or turn on opal. I've played chromatic star for this effect, and I definitely like compass more, but you guys are right in that it isn't ideal. I'm not writing it off yet.
Next step will probably be swapping the Compasses back to 2 mana rocks and either a 3rd one or an Expedition Map, but I want to try it out a bit more.
I see you have cut Pentid prisms which every other list seems to run 3-4 of. How have you found this and how much harder do you find it to cast certain spells or whir combinations
This list has 5 black lands and 4 opals. Not sure if it will consistently cast Tezz or not but it seems like a weakness. It might be worth dropping all the fast lands if you are going Esper. Edit: Detention Sphere really is a super sweet addition to the deck, I'm still wondering if we can ever drop Tezz and just play Jace as the PW.
I haven't really had an issues casting Tezzeret yet, but it could be an issue. I'll probably be adding UB mana rocks or Pentad Prism
As for dropping Prism, or mana rocks in general, I got back and forth on it. I dislike that they are pretty bad topdecks. Pentad Prism being a oneshot deal also is kinda annoying, and with the extra citadels it makes it harder to cast it for 2 on turn 2. Though it is faster for whir for sure. I do kinda lean more towards Signet or Talisman over Prism since you can use it more than just once, I like that. Which of the 2 I choose usually depends on how many 1 drops I'm running, given that I'm not running many (no discard/serum) probably Signet is better than Talisman.
I can't really imagine dropping Tezz, he's way too good. He's still sitting at a 96% winrate after resolving tezz (only lost after resolving Tezz once out of 25 recorded games where he resolved so far). He's still definitely a fair bit better than Jace is, though Jace is still very good if feel ok with the extra 4 drops.
There is no dropping Tezz for Jace imo. Tezz is a 1 turn clock once he hits behind a bridge, he needs an immediate answer or in most cases your opponent is dead from his ult
I'm down on Tezz at the moment, and that's after rattling off multuple 5-0's and 4-1's just last month with 3 maindeck. There's SO MUCH aggro and jund online right now. I'm siding him out in what seems like 80% of matches the last few days. So right now I'm on a 2/1 nahiri tezz maindeck split. Because decks typically have few ways to interract with a resolved bridge game one, it kind of doesn't matter which planeswalker follows up to win the game, though Tezz is by far the fastest, and Nahiri main opens up the side a little. The mana is not great at the moment, so I may go back to fewer utility lands.
Honestly, I can't remember the last time I made a relevant academy ruins activation. Might go to 3 citadels, one fair as the only utilities.
I ran Academy Ruins in my last big event where I went 5-1-1. Number of times I used it? 0, it's a def cut for me. I think it depends on the play style as does the Tezz debate but I'm on the side of simply killing or breaking my opponents game plan ASAP.
Private Mod Note
():
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
1 Academy Ruins
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Darksteel Citadel
2 Ghost Quarter
3 Island
1 Plains
2 Seachrome Coast
3 Spire of Industry
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
Spells (14):
1 Battle at the Bridge
4 Board the Weatherlight
4 Whir of Invention
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Search for Azcanta
1 Damping Sphere
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Krark-Clan Ironworks
4 Mishra's Bauble
4 Mox Opal
3 Navigator's Compass
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
3 Sword of the Meek
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Welding Jar
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Crucible of Worlds
1 Damnation
1 Damping Sphere
2 Nahiri, the Harbinger
1 Nihil Spellbomb
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
2 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
2 Spellskite
1 Witchbane Orb
Compass has been putting in work, and Board even more so. The only cards it doesn't hit mainboard are Battle, Whir, other Boards and any land that isn't Oboro, Citadel, and Ruins. Keeping a two land hand with mox, compass and board almost always has me ready for a turn 3 whir or tezz. Would not go under 4.
Edit: One thing I have been having some trouble with is deciding when to side in Slobad vs Padeem. Tezz is my first foray into modern, and to me slobad/padeem serve a similar role. Does anyone have any tips on this?
Either way, most games you will end up boarding in pretty much all of your artifact protection anyway lol
I've been kind of having similar issues. I've seen a lot of shattering spree and even stuff like fracturing gust, recently. I've pretty much boarded Slobad in every matchup except Jund, Burn, and UW control, as Jund with Lili and burn have too many ways to kill him, and UW control exiles instead of destroys your stuff. Some matchups I board in both and take out planeswalkers, like against non-burn aggro where all you want to do is protect a bridge, or against storm where all you want to do is protect sphere.
One interesting trick I learned against burn is if you have a compass and a foundry and academy ruins, you can sac and recur the compass each turn for a net of 4 life each turn.
Re: Teferi/Nahiri - I have yet to resolve one so far in leagues, lol. There's been a lot of aggro, and the one U/W control match I won without them.
Then I guess my problem is siding things out. I know when to side out Damping Sphere, battle at the bridge, nihil spellbomb, and I have sided our Tezz in the past, but what else do I side out?
The matchup that I'm having trouble with boarding against is Jund. Typically you want to take out opals against them, as you're not really ramping/racing them, and I've taken out some compasses, too. But then I'm getting colour screwed against them, and fulminator mage becomes backbreaking. I need to look at that matchup/board strategy again.
Also, Tezz himself has been a little lackluster in the new meta. So much aggro running around, and he's just meh against jund, as they're aleays going to have a threat to swing into, and you never want to animate a citadel for fear of lili minus. Lingering souls is looking better and better to me.
I am in agreement with you. I think Navigator's Compass is REALLY bad. Welding Jar, Pithing Needle, Relic of Progenitus, Mox Opal, Darksteel Citadel, Tormod's Crypt, Grafdigger's Cage are all cards I would play before sleeving up Navigator's Compass. Modern has proven time and time again that gaining life isn't good and when it is at its best (against burn) cards that only gain life still are not sideboarded to help with burn. You have to be getting a lot of value out of the color fixing. You would have to warp your entire deck around the card playing as many of the colorless utility lands you could. At that it doesn't help you cast Whir because you will need to tap it to make blue mana instead of for improvise. Overall seems like a poor choice.
Board the Weatherlight seems even worse then Serum Visions. Card selection is great because it smooths out your mana and then digs for action in the late game. Board the Weatherlight can't dig for lands and only goes 2 deeper than serum visions but costs twice as much mana.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Board the Weatherlight feels good, but a bit clunky and a bit slow. I do like that it's flexible. Between Darksteel Citadel, Academy Ruins, Inventor's Fair, and Oboro it's got 7 lands it can potentially get, as well as the Tezzerets and other potential sideboard stuff in addition to all the artifacts. I do like it more than Serum Visions, which I haven't really liked in awhile, but the real question is do I like it more than the other stuff I used to play in that slot like Collective Brutality and Chalice of the Void, or discard, etc. I'm still undecided, but so far the card has been pretty decent
What's your current list if I may ask and what do you plan to swap out for Damping Spheres?
Compass is really hard to evaluate. Sometimes it's really good, buying you time and fixing your mana while you curve into stuff. We really are hungry for 1-drop artifacts. Sometimes you just need that 1-drop artifact to turn into a thopter to keep you alive with foundry before sword comes online. Compass does this job very well, and its lifegain isn't irrelevant. Sometimes you need to curve out perfectly to get under bridge or turn on opal. I've played chromatic star for this effect, and I definitely like compass more, but you guys are right in that it isn't ideal. I'm not writing it off yet.
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Artifacts (27)
4 Thopter Foundry
3 Sword of the Meek
3 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Welding Jar
1 Damping Sphere
1 Pithing Needle
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Bottled Cloister
1 Nihil Spellbomb
3 Navigator's Compass
1 Battle at the Bridge
4 Board the Weatherlight
4 Whir of Invention
Lands (21)
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Darksteel Citadel
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Ghost Quarter
4 Spire of Industry
1 Glimmervoid
3 Island
1 Plains
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
2 Detention Sphere
2 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Pithing Needle
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Defense Grid
2 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
2 Battle at the Bridge
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
1 Damping Sphere
That's where I'm at now.
Next step will probably be swapping the Compasses back to 2 mana rocks and either a 3rd one or an Expedition Map, but I want to try it out a bit more.
I see you have cut Pentid prisms which every other list seems to run 3-4 of. How have you found this and how much harder do you find it to cast certain spells or whir combinations
As for dropping Prism, or mana rocks in general, I got back and forth on it. I dislike that they are pretty bad topdecks. Pentad Prism being a oneshot deal also is kinda annoying, and with the extra citadels it makes it harder to cast it for 2 on turn 2. Though it is faster for whir for sure. I do kinda lean more towards Signet or Talisman over Prism since you can use it more than just once, I like that. Which of the 2 I choose usually depends on how many 1 drops I'm running, given that I'm not running many (no discard/serum) probably Signet is better than Talisman.
I can't really imagine dropping Tezz, he's way too good. He's still sitting at a 96% winrate after resolving tezz (only lost after resolving Tezz once out of 25 recorded games where he resolved so far). He's still definitely a fair bit better than Jace is, though Jace is still very good if feel ok with the extra 4 drops.
Honestly, I can't remember the last time I made a relevant academy ruins activation. Might go to 3 citadels, one fair as the only utilities.