I honestly dont know how that guy keeps winning with that list. Ive tried it and it seems like it just auto loses to humans and hatebears. also the whirs are super awkward because of how many non blue lands it plays. The meta i play in is quite different then online though.
The lack of blue lands was a huge barrier for me as well.
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U/B Tezzeret Control
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
@Catherine they mill with the Ipnu Riv or swing in big on a Tezz alt. That version runs cage, witchbane and has T's crypt, combine with pithing needle and a few spyglass plus Chalices and it can really shut down most opponents behind a bridge. From there its just play away into a win con. I like the idea of the Ipnu as another win con and if you land an Ashiok it can really thin out a deck quick.
@Catherine_Cook It's not a noobish question, it's a good one - the answer is not obvious. When the list got posted on here I knew it must have a wincon because it won five times (ha), and the decklist looked so random and different I felt there was a great craftsmen behind it - so I proxied the 75 and had my buddies come over with a gauntlet of decks to test against.
Man, the deck is so sweet in such a subtle way.
The first thing the deck has going for it is nobody knows how to play against it, and they make a lot of boneheaded moves in a blind panic that they are playing lantern. If the deck keeps doing well I don't think this will last long, but it's a thing for now.
As for the deck itself, it's designed to collapse your hand as quickly as possible while guaranteeing a board state that gives access to the various pieces you have that lock out your opponent's core strategy, secondary strategy, and then finally to overwhelm their answers to your locks with redundant protection, recursion and mana constriction.
Hearing that a deck's got two wincons makes people groan sometimes because they imagine these go-to-time-every-round scenarios. This deck doesn't do that at all. Because it is trying to restrict your opponent's options, generally after the first four turns you're dead or your opponent is stuck with no releavnt actions, which makes for a game that feels like its playing in fast forward. You can usually ruvulet your opponent in about 2 minutes, and getting the rivulet when it's time is easy with some combination of [exp map/tolaria west/crucible/academy ruins/inventors' fair]. Tezzeret's ultimate can attack through bridge with the help of bottled cloister getting your hand up to 5 during your turn. These instances may sound like corner cases, but the deck is so resilient that games play out amazingly consistently, and it's hard for your opponent to have enough interaction to keep you from getting whatever piece of the deck you need.
As with any prison or denial strategy it requires mental stamina and for you to have a deep knowledge of decklists, sometimes down to specific numbers of cards in a list. For example, I was getting crushed down by a fast start of hollow one, but I had stabilized behind a bridge and welding jar, instead of doing the obvious play of getting a sun droplet down to maintain my life total, I went after his stomping ground with a field of ruin, because I know there is only one green source in the deck to flashback grudge. He'd had the grudge in his hand and would have won when he untapped.
My biggest gripe with modern is that I want to interact, and I want to be able to have an interesting and unique boardstate, I like building a battlecruisers. This deck gives me that feeling in Modern, which hasn't been possible for some time.
All that being said, I love the deck, but it's not tier 1 yet. It's pretty heavily laden to try to keep up with tron, but after damping sphere comes out it will open up a few spots in the list which will make it more viable against the general field while not being an absolute dog to tron.
From my experience you just play it differently for the expected removal package. Against a pulse deck you play one bridge, then try to get a combination of welding jar, academy ruins, crucible etc to outstrip the number of applicable removal spells they have. Against UR control you'd focus on getting multiple bridges to defend against cryptic/snap/cryptic etc etc the deck has a ton of customization so unique gameplans are easy to sculpt.
It would be cool if the meta did something about tron, it's just a little concerning that green is the main color of the deck and our incoming option is a two mana artifact. Blood moon did almost nothing to them, but hopefully this card is cheap and accessible enough thatevery deck has a few in the SB
In other news I brewed the mashup between Tez and the serum poweder eldrazi deck. After a minute it became clear that if all the tezzerets I drew were ensoul artifacts that it would be better and faster. It turns out to be a very effective closing card in being able to animate your signets or a blinkmoth nexus to close a game out. Sort of like smasher 5-8
So the Tezzes are out and therefore I won't talk about it in this forum anymore, but I think this could be a cool twist on that deck which is already insanely good because Eldrazi are insanely good and to apologize for us having to play those insanely good creatures Wizards printed a. Zero Casting Cost Sol Ring for them?!?!
It would be cool if the meta did something about tron, it's just a little concerning that green is the main color of the deck and our incoming option is a two mana artifact. Blood moon did almost nothing to them, but hopefully this card is cheap and accessible enough thatevery deck has a few in the SB
A cool thing about the Ur Tezz deck vs Tron is that you want Chalice on 1 against them anyway and that blanks basically all of their post-board interaction. Surgical, Nature's Claim, Relic. All covered by Chalice. I imagine if this deck or other Chalice decks became popular it would require Tron decks to adapt Krosan Grip or something.
I'm not sure that the deck will actually be re-tooled to include Damping Sphere and have less Tron hate. I don't really feel like any of the cards are specifically anti-Tron, the deck just happens to be very good against it. You want Crucible, Chalice and GQs anyway.
Hi all i watched a stream of the ur prison deck on twitch yesterday and some games the guy just drew the perfect cards and others he lost with a bridge on board and no island to cast whir and slowly died to small creatures.
@orangetj87 I watched a few matches and I'll say he really didnt understand the deck. You have to prioritize being able to cast whir and get bridge. Sometimes it isn't possible, but he was trying to lock the game out too early and all that is more easily done behind a bridge
The engine of the deck is exp map, crucible, inv fair, academy ruins but he was doing things like prioritizing playing an early needle on Ezuri against elves instead of casting map because he thought map Was just for fixing, but it's to get a pretty efficient engine going. I told him about that engine a few games later and he hadn't even realized that interaction.
I have a tourney recap from last night. I rocked a pretty commanding 4-0 last night.
A few major notes:
1. Thopter Spy Network is one of the best sideboard cards we have against kcommand decks. I won almost all of my pivotal SB games off of it. Unless they thoughtsieze it RB decks are reduced to pulse (if jund)to deal with it, it floods the board with blockers and allows you to outstrip your oppo in card advantage while chipping away at the game. I would highly recommend carving out space for two. Also great against Stony.
2. jester's cap is very very good in our deck post SB. I put it in for valakut, but against lantern g3 I whirred for it early and knocked out 3 lanterns, then a few more turns later I got a trading post/thopter spy network/jester's cap engine out that was *superb*. Saccing the thopter to rebuy cap to take apart his deck. He saw it happen once and scooped.
3. Krark-Clan Ironworks is much better than time sieve. I won two games whirring for it when a sieve wouldn't have won because I had three lands, and I won through a blood moon with it where I would have been unable to cast sieve. Moon was in half the decks I played. Honestly I can't even believe there was ever a debate.
It feels like a very creaure-driven format, so dropping the hand disruption for a bunch of targeted removal is a very good spot to be in right now.
@boomforest - I agree about dropping the hand disruption these days. I've been crushing leagues online for a while without discard. Storm has been harder, but that's only where I miss it.
I've put a culling scales in the sb, and I like it. I'm also back on time sieve main. I get why people like the benefits of KCI, but if we're talking MTGO I strongly have to disagree about having it over sieve. Sieve can beat combo decks and tron, and which kci might not. Sieve can beat lantern and prison. These matchups are the reason to run an infinite combo in the first place. Sieve is way faster to execute on mtgo, too, which I think is the biggest reason for me. And while kci operates off fewer lands, sieve can come do on turn 2 and help improvise for whir.
4 Darkslick Shores
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
1 Swamp (thinking maybe Overgrown)
1 Breeding Pool
2 Watery Grave
2 Sprire of Industry
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
4 whir of invention
4 Fatal Push
1 Go for the Throat (immediately swapping for Cast Down when dominaria comes in)
2 Collective Brutality
4 tezzeret agent of bolas
4 Pentad Prism
2 Mox opal
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 ensnaring bridge
3 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
1 krark-clan ironworks
2 welding jar
1 pithing needle
2 mishra's bauble
SB
2 Herald of Anguish (Harry)
1 Padeem
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Thopter Spy Network
1 Jester's Cap
1 Trading Post
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Thoughtsieze
@the_nobodys I can't make arguments for the dexterity of mtgo, but it's the opposite in paper. (Edit: I mean that IRL people make me go through tine sieve for some reason, as though I might make a mistake, but KCI when I say "make a trillion thopters and gain that much life" they scoop) Additionally, I ran sieve for about a year, and far more often than not I'd be stuck on three or four lands trying to 'surf' turns to find a fifth mana source. Also the UB on sieve has clogged it in my hand before, win in hand praying for a black source or something like that. The beatuy is we can play to match our styles, but I know I'm never going back.
That's 38 cards in the main that can be found off Board the Weatherlight, including 7 lands. I'm also looking for legendaries in the SB as hate or anti-hate cards. Removal like Profane Procession, Mangara of Corondor, and Nahiri, the Harbinger come to mind in addition to Teferi. Because I'm running all those compasses, I feel like I can expand to a 5-color (single mana in CC) SB, so stuff like Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer seems quite intriguing to combat opponent's SB cards. Are there any other utility legendaries I'm missing?
Hi all i went to a a fnm at my lgs last night I played sultai tezzerator. I had a 1st round bye and played a side game against a fella who was playing some uw life gain angel deck game one I locked him out and ult tezz to drain him for 34 he was at 33. Game 2 I had the game locked up and he was at 40+ life and resolved a felidar soverighn I didn't see coming so we went to game 3 I got a turn 3 tezz of a pentad prism and beat face with a 5/5 inkmoth nexus he couldn't deal with because I had a defense grid in play
Round 2 I played against a burning inquiry liliana' s caress deck that mainboarded blood moon I thought it was hollow one at first and got cage and bridge but then he played 3 liliana' s caress and kept making me discard my hand and draw new cards with some miracle card and messed with my mana base with blood moon i lost . Game 2 I had early prism so i could keep up green for abrut decay on blood moon i had an early needle on liliana of the veil and was able to get crucible to fix my mana base he milled naturally it was agonizing he was surgicalling all my winconditions as they were being discarded . Game 3 I played na early tezz and made a 5/5 prism and beat face and he couldn't deal with it I won 2-1
Round 3 vs ponza this person got first place game 1 I had the game all locked up and was using tezz to look for a win condition I took a crucibal instead of a spellskite trying to be proactive and my bridge got beast within and I had no answer and was dead on board .Game 2 I got mana screwed and a turn 2 blood moon didn't help then stone rained a acid moss finished me off I lost 0-2
Round 4 I played against humans I resolves a bridge with an empty hand and he scooped game 2 he had the feebooter for my bontus last reckoning and double mantis rider into image killed me quickly i did get a bridge down but he vialed in a reck sageon my end step game 3 I got an early bridge out he blew it up played 2 ffeebooter to take my relevant removal and his board just grew out of hand to quickly I lost.
So I went 2-2 I liked the deck a lot I felt it had game against everybody the bloomoon decks are tough also the humans player sideded in 8 cards against me and was main deck in 2 meddling mages as well I think some changes I will make would be to drop the chalice for maybe a second map also I wasn't a big fan of playing against burning inquiry
@theNB : why 3 compasses ? I can see it as an out to Moon and a okayish lifegain card, but I feel like you can navigate around Moon overall, especially in your build that plays 4 Moxen.
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Pioneer - A bunch of stuff Modern - Humans Legacy - Grixis Phoenix / Death & Taxes
I have to say, I still like Jace quite a bit in the deck. Having so many 4 mana cards is sometimes awkward, but Jace is just so strong, I still find him a worthwhile inclusion.
Board the weatherlight is interesting. Drops the body of Glint-Nest Crane to dig deeper and allow the finding of a planeswalker or some sideboard cards. I'm not convinced it's really worth it, but I'll probably also try it out and see how it feels.
I'm also not really sold on the compass (or Maps). Even though I've been playing 3 citadel, 3 ghost quarter, ruins, and fair recently, I haven't had too much issue with mana, especially since I've been adding 2-3 Dimir Signets back in. I've liked the Signets over the Talismans because I don't run much in the way of 1 mana spells. I definitely like talismans a lot more if you're running a bunch of 1 drops like Thoughtseize/Serum so that turn 2 you can play Talisman and a 1 drop, but not playing 1 drops means that's not really a concern, so I prefer signets there, or prism.
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The lack of blue lands was a huge barrier for me as well.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Man, the deck is so sweet in such a subtle way.
The first thing the deck has going for it is nobody knows how to play against it, and they make a lot of boneheaded moves in a blind panic that they are playing lantern. If the deck keeps doing well I don't think this will last long, but it's a thing for now.
As for the deck itself, it's designed to collapse your hand as quickly as possible while guaranteeing a board state that gives access to the various pieces you have that lock out your opponent's core strategy, secondary strategy, and then finally to overwhelm their answers to your locks with redundant protection, recursion and mana constriction.
Hearing that a deck's got two wincons makes people groan sometimes because they imagine these go-to-time-every-round scenarios. This deck doesn't do that at all. Because it is trying to restrict your opponent's options, generally after the first four turns you're dead or your opponent is stuck with no releavnt actions, which makes for a game that feels like its playing in fast forward. You can usually ruvulet your opponent in about 2 minutes, and getting the rivulet when it's time is easy with some combination of [exp map/tolaria west/crucible/academy ruins/inventors' fair]. Tezzeret's ultimate can attack through bridge with the help of bottled cloister getting your hand up to 5 during your turn. These instances may sound like corner cases, but the deck is so resilient that games play out amazingly consistently, and it's hard for your opponent to have enough interaction to keep you from getting whatever piece of the deck you need.
As with any prison or denial strategy it requires mental stamina and for you to have a deep knowledge of decklists, sometimes down to specific numbers of cards in a list. For example, I was getting crushed down by a fast start of hollow one, but I had stabilized behind a bridge and welding jar, instead of doing the obvious play of getting a sun droplet down to maintain my life total, I went after his stomping ground with a field of ruin, because I know there is only one green source in the deck to flashback grudge. He'd had the grudge in his hand and would have won when he untapped.
My biggest gripe with modern is that I want to interact, and I want to be able to have an interesting and unique boardstate, I like building a battlecruisers. This deck gives me that feeling in Modern, which hasn't been possible for some time.
All that being said, I love the deck, but it's not tier 1 yet. It's pretty heavily laden to try to keep up with tron, but after damping sphere comes out it will open up a few spots in the list which will make it more viable against the general field while not being an absolute dog to tron.
It would be cool if the meta did something about tron, it's just a little concerning that green is the main color of the deck and our incoming option is a two mana artifact. Blood moon did almost nothing to them, but hopefully this card is cheap and accessible enough thatevery deck has a few in the SB
So the Tezzes are out and therefore I won't talk about it in this forum anymore, but I think this could be a cool twist on that deck which is already insanely good because Eldrazi are insanely good and to apologize for us having to play those insanely good creatures Wizards printed a. Zero Casting Cost Sol Ring for them?!?!
A cool thing about the Ur Tezz deck vs Tron is that you want Chalice on 1 against them anyway and that blanks basically all of their post-board interaction. Surgical, Nature's Claim, Relic. All covered by Chalice. I imagine if this deck or other Chalice decks became popular it would require Tron decks to adapt Krosan Grip or something.
I'm not sure that the deck will actually be re-tooled to include Damping Sphere and have less Tron hate. I don't really feel like any of the cards are specifically anti-Tron, the deck just happens to be very good against it. You want Crucible, Chalice and GQs anyway.
The engine of the deck is exp map, crucible, inv fair, academy ruins but he was doing things like prioritizing playing an early needle on Ezuri against elves instead of casting map because he thought map Was just for fixing, but it's to get a pretty efficient engine going. I told him about that engine a few games later and he hadn't even realized that interaction.
A few major notes:
1. Thopter Spy Network is one of the best sideboard cards we have against kcommand decks. I won almost all of my pivotal SB games off of it. Unless they thoughtsieze it RB decks are reduced to pulse (if jund)to deal with it, it floods the board with blockers and allows you to outstrip your oppo in card advantage while chipping away at the game. I would highly recommend carving out space for two. Also great against Stony.
2. jester's cap is very very good in our deck post SB. I put it in for valakut, but against lantern g3 I whirred for it early and knocked out 3 lanterns, then a few more turns later I got a trading post/thopter spy network/jester's cap engine out that was *superb*. Saccing the thopter to rebuy cap to take apart his deck. He saw it happen once and scooped.
3. Krark-Clan Ironworks is much better than time sieve. I won two games whirring for it when a sieve wouldn't have won because I had three lands, and I won through a blood moon with it where I would have been unable to cast sieve. Moon was in half the decks I played. Honestly I can't even believe there was ever a debate.
It feels like a very creaure-driven format, so dropping the hand disruption for a bunch of targeted removal is a very good spot to be in right now.
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
I've put a culling scales in the sb, and I like it. I'm also back on time sieve main. I get why people like the benefits of KCI, but if we're talking MTGO I strongly have to disagree about having it over sieve. Sieve can beat combo decks and tron, and which kci might not. Sieve can beat lantern and prison. These matchups are the reason to run an infinite combo in the first place. Sieve is way faster to execute on mtgo, too, which I think is the biggest reason for me. And while kci operates off fewer lands, sieve can come do on turn 2 and help improvise for whir.
4 Polluted Delta
4 Island
1 Swamp (thinking maybe Overgrown)
1 Breeding Pool
2 Watery Grave
2 Sprire of Industry
1 Misty Rainforest
1 Scalding Tarn
1 Darksteel Citadel
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
4 whir of invention
4 Fatal Push
1 Go for the Throat (immediately swapping for Cast Down when dominaria comes in)
2 Collective Brutality
4 tezzeret agent of bolas
4 Pentad Prism
2 Mox opal
2 Nihil Spellbomb
2 ensnaring bridge
3 thopter foundry
3 sword of the meek
1 krark-clan ironworks
2 welding jar
1 pithing needle
2 mishra's bauble
SB
2 Herald of Anguish (Harry)
1 Padeem
1 Search for Azcanta
2 Thopter Spy Network
1 Jester's Cap
1 Trading Post
1 Maelstrom Pulse
2 Abrupt Decay
1 Collective Brutality
1 Witchbane Orb
2 Thoughtsieze
I'm on my phone so sorry about the formatting.
4 Mox Opal
4 Mishra's Bauble
1 Welding Jar
1 Pithing Needle
3 Navigator's Compass
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Damping Sphere
2 Talisman of Dominance
1 Talisman of Progress
4 Thopter Foundry
2 Sword of the Meek
1 Time Sieve
3 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
Instants/Sorceries: 7
3 Board the Weatherlight
4 Whir of Invention
Land: 21
4 Seachrome Coast
4 Spire of Industry
4 Darksteel Citadel
3 Island
2 Glimmervoid
1 Oboro, Palace in the Clouds
1 Inventors' Fair
1 Academy Ruins
1 Field of Ruin
1 Damping Sphere
1 Witchbane Orb
1 Collective Brutality
2 Teferi, Hero of Dominaria
1 Kambal, Consul of Allocation
2 Detention Sphere
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Spellskite
1 Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer
2 Battle at the Bridge
1 Wrath of God
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
That's 38 cards in the main that can be found off Board the Weatherlight, including 7 lands. I'm also looking for legendaries in the SB as hate or anti-hate cards. Removal like Profane Procession, Mangara of Corondor, and Nahiri, the Harbinger come to mind in addition to Teferi. Because I'm running all those compasses, I feel like I can expand to a 5-color (single mana in CC) SB, so stuff like Slobad, Goblin Tinkerer seems quite intriguing to combat opponent's SB cards. Are there any other utility legendaries I'm missing?
Round 2 I played against a burning inquiry liliana' s caress deck that mainboarded blood moon I thought it was hollow one at first and got cage and bridge but then he played 3 liliana' s caress and kept making me discard my hand and draw new cards with some miracle card and messed with my mana base with blood moon i lost . Game 2 I had early prism so i could keep up green for abrut decay on blood moon i had an early needle on liliana of the veil and was able to get crucible to fix my mana base he milled naturally it was agonizing he was surgicalling all my winconditions as they were being discarded . Game 3 I played na early tezz and made a 5/5 prism and beat face and he couldn't deal with it I won 2-1
Round 3 vs ponza this person got first place game 1 I had the game all locked up and was using tezz to look for a win condition I took a crucibal instead of a spellskite trying to be proactive and my bridge got beast within and I had no answer and was dead on board .Game 2 I got mana screwed and a turn 2 blood moon didn't help then stone rained a acid moss finished me off I lost 0-2
Round 4 I played against humans I resolves a bridge with an empty hand and he scooped game 2 he had the feebooter for my bontus last reckoning and double mantis rider into image killed me quickly i did get a bridge down but he vialed in a reck sageon my end step game 3 I got an early bridge out he blew it up played 2 ffeebooter to take my relevant removal and his board just grew out of hand to quickly I lost.
So I went 2-2 I liked the deck a lot I felt it had game against everybody the bloomoon decks are tough also the humans player sideded in 8 cards against me and was main deck in 2 meddling mages as well I think some changes I will make would be to drop the chalice for maybe a second map also I wasn't a big fan of playing against burning inquiry
Board the weatherlight is interesting. Drops the body of Glint-Nest Crane to dig deeper and allow the finding of a planeswalker or some sideboard cards. I'm not convinced it's really worth it, but I'll probably also try it out and see how it feels.
I'm also not really sold on the compass (or Maps). Even though I've been playing 3 citadel, 3 ghost quarter, ruins, and fair recently, I haven't had too much issue with mana, especially since I've been adding 2-3 Dimir Signets back in. I've liked the Signets over the Talismans because I don't run much in the way of 1 mana spells. I definitely like talismans a lot more if you're running a bunch of 1 drops like Thoughtseize/Serum so that turn 2 you can play Talisman and a 1 drop, but not playing 1 drops means that's not really a concern, so I prefer signets there, or prism.