@radouf Yeah, I wasn't taking a dig. It just seems a few people's first respsonses were to talk about what they would change about the deck, when we're all here to try to come up with a competitive build and we got a weekend with two decks in a high finish. It seemed there would be more rejoicing I do understand the desire to start talking out loud about how you'll use new data.
When enchanted permanent leaves the battlefield, if it was historic, draw two cards. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.) "
Could this be a significant addition to the SB? Sometimes when you get the right piece your opp lets it sit there for 6-7 turns til they're ready, cryptics/smashes the piece and goes off.
It would play well with bauble/spellbomb/thopter foundry if you desperately needed to dig.
Also, I must go back to say that Rona, Disciple of Gix could be a really cool card for us. Snapcaster for artifacts/PWs? Seems very powerful for what we're doing... Esp Gs 2-3 Where we need to generate some card value to fight the ancient grudges and it keeps grinding after that in a way that doesn't build up our hand for bridge purposes.
"1UB
When Rona, Disciple of Gix enters the battlefield, you may exile target historic card from your graveyard. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
If Rona had deathtouch, it could be our powered-down baleful strix. As it dies to K-Command though and doesn't trade with anything too relevant...
Curator's Ward, though. That is a rather nice effect that curves perfectly after thopter foundry. Padeem is great, but far more removable and higher cmc. On the other hand, Curator's Ward has a much higher chance to be a blowout by opponent's removal in response to casting. Still, I think it's worth testing.
I just went back and read people's initial reaction to snapcaster mage and it is eerily similar to the critiques of Rona. I think she might be crazy good, cards that are crazy good when paired with other powerful spells underwhelm on paper. I'm not claiming to know for sure, but she definitely has the potential to be something special.
The card's confirmed, early testing is really helpful (to me at least). I wouldn't have thought of the downside of sphere. I wonder if sphere without that storm clause stapled on would let combo decks have too much of an edge on tron/ancient tomb/workshop?
Potentially too much downside for maindeck? Isn't our flurry of spells usually on turn 1? All very interesting.
Our flurry of spells is absolutely on turn 1/2. If anything, ours is a deck that doesn't choose to play its spells all the time, opting to keep mana open for thopters or whir on an opponent's turn. If we're casting damping sphere it's because we know it will be worthwhile to do so, and after we've played baubles/opals/visions/discard.
I don't think sphere is going to be a game one card. It only beats up on a subset of decks and we need to be able to empty our hand every turn for ensnaring bridge. It will be fantastic out of the board as a tutor-able card to hate out tron and storm however. I would be most interesting in doing some testing against Tron to see how much better the match up is. We still need to find it super fast and protect it from destruction.
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For a while at the beginning of fall, when I was playing a lot of esper tezz, I had a maindeck Ethersworn Canonist. That may seem like such a narrow hoser, like damping sphere, but the number of times I whirred for it game 1 was decent. Snapcaster, Living End, Ad Nauseum, storm, elves, infect... it was quite useful, and it's drawback was that it was a creature and thus removable. I definitely think having 1 Damping Sphere maindeck will have its uses, especially now that Bloodbraid Elf is rampant. If anything, it may replace Time Sieve in the maindeck, as Sieve is mostly there to help us race Tron/Combo.
What are thoughts of padeem versus spellskite. I like padeem as a KO versus death shadow/jund/ancient grudge decks a lot. So much so I intend to play 2 in the board after every time resolving 1 immediately won the game.
However, adding 4 drops in a land light deck does concern me. I've seen people say spellskite, but it's significantly worse versus Jund and grudge decks in general. You get some upside versus affinity, burn and boggles, but I feel those are already good matchups.
Im still running my thopter lantern hybrid to great success. Too often I feel normal lantern is too fragile and 1 dimensional while recent tezz brews are too clunky at getting a bridge to 0 and beating things like shatter storm/shatter spree/grudge.
I have lost so many times with Padeem in play or dead in my hand. Spellskite almost always gets to come out early, maybe get a block in and most important of all act as a lightning rod to bridge removal.
Grudge sucks, but by the time the hand is empty and padeem and bridge are out the game is usually effectively over.
I am playing Padeem AND Spellskite AND a second Welding Jar out of the board. They all are a little different and typically only 2/3 ever come in together however I like having a bunch of ways to protect my cards. Padeem is mostly for grindy matches. I am in it for the extra card but the hexproof is a great bonus.
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@sanrol Welcome! The deck is really cool, and poised to be a chief beneficiary of the new tron hate artifact. You picked a good time to come aboard.
I think everyone's first instinct is to try to jam that package in the build - clearly very powerful. What seems to have happened is that the deck can either be all in on thopter sword and trying to end the game ASAP wth that combo or being more of a hard lock control deck. The crucible GQ fair package slots very well into the stacks-esque deck that's been putting up results on mtgo lately.
The problem with that land package in the foundry combo build is that we need to hit UB and UUU extremely early for whir/foundry to have maxiumim game-winning effect and crucible/GQ/Fair all inhibit that from a colored mana perspective as well as being an interaction that has more of a long term return on investment.
The deck is very flexible and it's not impossible to imagine all these packages working together, but I feel in the current modern that's where things sit.
Hey pal, welcome aboard! You’ve raised the issue yourself : slow means of outgrinding is NOT what we need. Tezz and Thopter-Sword (w/ all the Whirs to access it) already offer excellent ways of outgrinding out most decks while we pick appart their gameplan, as well as being more versatile and having more immediate impacts on the board (ie. Keeping us aliveor getting the opponent dead, dead.)
There’s also a real opportunity cost to running colorless lands. Whir of Invention put even more strain on our mana-base so running GQ or Fair (when we now have effective 4x MB Tinker) comes at a premium.
Hi DisgruntledElk and racing089,
here an old tezzerator player. Now I've seen this thread and want to play again, it was so much funny with trinquet Tezz and C.Mox...
I read the latests posts and Primer, and I'd like you to share your Side strategy of your decks. those seems the most funny for me. or something as a start.
Thanks I appreciate.
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@radouf: Coverage has been calling it U/R prison and so isn't the creator Jody Keith. We should probably stick with what the rest of community has jumped on for the sake of uniformity. But if a new strain of Tezzerator decks breaks out Tezzerator-X is DEFINITELY the name.
@Pelikanudo: I don't know how old of a tezzeret player you are but I go way back to when torpor orb main deck was real good. The deck has evolved a ton since then. Here is my most updated list.
I have been doing incredibly well with this list and I think there is still room for improvement. I am not in love with the lone expedition map and I think the sideboard could be honed a little better. By now I feel like I could write a book on tezzerator so instead of listing out why I am playing X over Y for every card just drop a comment here and I would be happy to talk about it.
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@Fernling: Yeah I am. I ran the pentad prisms for a long time but when I switched over to playing 5 planeswalkers in the main instead of 2-3 I found it very important to have the continuous mana generation. I prefer Talismans and the utility lands over more colored sources as well.I am running three lands that don't tap for color you should be running close to 22 sources that make colored mana to play pentad prism effectively.
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"Curator's Ward 2U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant permanent
Enchanted permanent has hexproof.
When enchanted permanent leaves the battlefield, if it was historic, draw two cards. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.) "
Could this be a significant addition to the SB? Sometimes when you get the right piece your opp lets it sit there for 6-7 turns til they're ready, cryptics/smashes the piece and goes off.
It would play well with bauble/spellbomb/thopter foundry if you desperately needed to dig.
"1UB
When Rona, Disciple of Gix enters the battlefield, you may exile target historic card from your graveyard. (Artifacts, legendaries, and Sagas are historic.)
You may cast nonland cards exiled with Rona.
4, T: Exile the top card of your library."
Curator's Ward, though. That is a rather nice effect that curves perfectly after thopter foundry. Padeem is great, but far more removable and higher cmc. On the other hand, Curator's Ward has a much higher chance to be a blowout by opponent's removal in response to casting. Still, I think it's worth testing.
Potentially too much downside for maindeck? Isn't our flurry of spells usually on turn 1? All very interesting.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
However, adding 4 drops in a land light deck does concern me. I've seen people say spellskite, but it's significantly worse versus Jund and grudge decks in general. You get some upside versus affinity, burn and boggles, but I feel those are already good matchups.
Im still running my thopter lantern hybrid to great success. Too often I feel normal lantern is too fragile and 1 dimensional while recent tezz brews are too clunky at getting a bridge to 0 and beating things like shatter storm/shatter spree/grudge.
Grudge sucks, but by the time the hand is empty and padeem and bridge are out the game is usually effectively over.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
I think everyone's first instinct is to try to jam that package in the build - clearly very powerful. What seems to have happened is that the deck can either be all in on thopter sword and trying to end the game ASAP wth that combo or being more of a hard lock control deck. The crucible GQ fair package slots very well into the stacks-esque deck that's been putting up results on mtgo lately.
The problem with that land package in the foundry combo build is that we need to hit UB and UUU extremely early for whir/foundry to have maxiumim game-winning effect and crucible/GQ/Fair all inhibit that from a colored mana perspective as well as being an interaction that has more of a long term return on investment.
The deck is very flexible and it's not impossible to imagine all these packages working together, but I feel in the current modern that's where things sit.
There’s also a real opportunity cost to running colorless lands. Whir of Invention put even more strain on our mana-base so running GQ or Fair (when we now have effective 4x MB Tinker) comes at a premium.
/e: Yeah, what @boomforest says, too!
Also, crazy artifact prison deck // Big Tezzerator 5-0’ed again : https://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/mtgo-standings/competitive-modern-constructed-league-2018-03-16
Edit again: Should we call this pile Tezzerator-X?
OLD SCHOOL 93/94 «The Pain Train» Black Sligh, Esper «Machine Gun» Artifacts, Jund «Psycho» Ponza-Disko.
here an old tezzerator player. Now I've seen this thread and want to play again, it was so much funny with trinquet Tezz and C.Mox...
I read the latests posts and Primer, and I'd like you to share your Side strategy of your decks. those seems the most funny for me. or something as a start.
Thanks I appreciate.
@Pelikanudo: I don't know how old of a tezzeret player you are but I go way back to when torpor orb main deck was real good. The deck has evolved a ton since then. Here is my most updated list.
1 Academy Ruins
1 Breeding Pool
1 Ghost Quarter
1 Inventors' Fair
3 Island
2 Misty Rainforest
4 Polluted Delta
4 Spire of Industry
1 Sunken Ruins
3 Watery Grave
Artifacts:
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 Expedition Map
4 Mishra's Bauble
2 Mox Opal
1 Nihil Spellbomb
1 Pithing Needle
2 Sword of the Meek
3 Talisman of Dominance
4 Thopter Foundry
1 Welding Jar
3 Inquisition of Kozilek
2 Jace, the Mind Sculptor
4 Serum Visions
3 Tezzeret, Agent of Bolas
2 Thoughtseize
4 Whir of Invention
3 Abrupt Decay
2 Collective Brutality
2 Damnation
2 Fatal Push
1 Grafdigger's Cage
1 Padeem, Consul of Innovation
1 Pithing Needle
1 Spellskite
1 Welding Jar
1 Witchbane Orb
I have been doing incredibly well with this list and I think there is still room for improvement. I am not in love with the lone expedition map and I think the sideboard could be honed a little better. By now I feel like I could write a book on tezzerator so instead of listing out why I am playing X over Y for every card just drop a comment here and I would be happy to talk about it.
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative
Sultai Midrange
Anything Innovative