Rakdos Charm doesn't have discard and it turn the deck slightly away from it's core competencies of being a discard deck.
Lavaclaw Reaches just can't do what Mutavault can do. With 8 rack you're at most playing off 3 lands, sometimes you got to 4 lands rarely do you ever go to 5. That leaves very little mana to activate Lavaclaw reachers and to do discard actions on the same turn. Remember with our rack effects we always have to keep them discarding based on what they draw. And very rarely will you ever have surplus mana to pump lavalclaw. If you regularly have 4 or more lands down to do all that pumping, I think your playing 8 rack sub optimally. We just use too many lands running raven's crime and pitching to smallpox
Also most deck's run pack rat in the sideboard and the mutavault synergy is too much to turn down. Too many times have I turned my 3/3 rats into 4/4 to take out blockers or survive bolts. With mutavault you don't need 4 lands (3 to activate plus lavaclaw reachers). You can pump your rats having only 1 mutavault, and you can 2/2 attack with only 2 lands with the mutavault. The resource requirements is just so much lower using mutavault compared to other creature lands. Plus you have increased synergy in the deck.
I've tried BR 8 rack. Personally I don't like it as much as mono black. I find I am increasing my mana curve putting in blightning and kolaghan's command. And I routinely get too many 3 drops in my hand. In my opinion a major reason I would considering going BR is to include rix maadi, dungeon because then at least you get a pseudo discard engine. But even that I've found it's too expensive, you need 4 lands just to activate it (and it costs you a card).
Lightning bolt is a benefit, but it's pretty meh. It's beneficial because it can hit planeswalkers and slightly increase your clock which are the main advantages over fatal push/dismember. But I don't think competitively it's a good enough draw to mix colours. In my opinion mono-black is still the way to go.
Dreadbore was actually my main reason to try to go BR. I just had too much hate for those pesky blue draw-card planeswalkers.
I read somewhere once that BR takes a bit longer to get going but can close out games faster. But I didn't find it as robust as the mono black.
How high of a ranking do you think someone can get playing 8 rack exclusively in constructed? Kind of a question of how competitive do you really think the deck is, can someone get an 1800+ rating playing 8 Rack exclusively?
Well I never play leagues, but I feel I've got enough experience with enough decks that I can take this deck into ranked play. I was able to take my ranking from exactly 1600 to 1701 in 2 days playing only 8 Rack. So I guess I'll give it a few more days to see if I can climb any higher on the weekend.
Running into too many TRON on MTGO though, they are kind of posing a problem, but I guess that's life and you gotta play what you're dealt.
The only way to answer this question is to guinea pig myself.
Against tron we're in trouble and even with side boarding there isn't much we can do.
Basically my strategy is to get lucky the first game. Then games 2 (or 3 if I was lucky game 1) I try to race them with pack rat out of my sideboard.
Too many of their cards just hose us. Because they have so much "exile target permanent" and really the only permanents they can really target is our lands (which they don't target) and our Racks. So needless to say the racks die quick. It's an extremely difficult match up.
If you want some actual strategy: target their big tron cards with thoughtseize so they have to top deck an answer, and early game try to destroy a Urza land with smallpox to slow them down. But it's a hard fight.
Against tron we're in trouble and even with side boarding there isn't much we can do.
Basically my strategy is to get lucky the first game. Then games 2 (or 3 if I was lucky game 1) I try to race them with pack rat out of my sideboard.
Too many of their cards just hose us. Because they have so much "exile target permanent" and really the only permanents they can really target is our lands (which they don't target) and our Racks. So needless to say the racks die quick. It's an extremely difficult match up.
If you want some actual strategy: target their big tron cards with thoughtseize so they have to top deck an answer, and early game try to destroy a Urza land with smallpox to slow them down. But it's a hard fight.
You do not need to suffer against the tron, if you are running the cersion with 4 smallpox, 3 fulminator mage on the sideboard is more than enough to balance the game against the tron and if you have surgical extraction is better yet.It has played like that and I have not had problems against tron.
If you are running the bridge version I would advise running 4 fulminator.
Fulminator mage helps not only against the tron but can be useful against other decks.
The way I view mindstab is it gives the opponent alot of warning what's coming. Most opponent are generally out of cards by the time mindstab goes off just playing the game normally. While they might typically hold on to more cards knowing they are up against 8 rack the suspend gives them a big warning to dump their hand and unless they are control they can probably very easily dump their hand. So even when mindstab does go off, it's probably highly unlikely your going to get 3 cards.
Waste Not in my opinion doesn't really earn it's keep. If they discard land most of the time our spells are so cheap we can't take advantage of it. When you get 2/2's you typically aren't getting enough to significantly impact a game. The card advantage is all you really want which can't really be controlled. I have a waste not deck specifically abusing waste not, it uses burning inquiry, dark deal, collective defiance to really abuse the discard triggers but I find it doesn't really get going until you have 2 wastes not's on the field working together. I don't think it's a good fit into 8 Rack but to each their own.
I don't run pithing needle or graffdigger's cage in my sideboard but I'd consider it. Control gives me problems which both these SB cards would help against.
epochrasite never tried it, never considered it, I have no opinion. Let us know how it works.
Regarding mindstab, I really do not see efficiency on that card. I do not play or play with him.
Waste not, I think you're underestimating the card's power. At first mutavault was on the deck because of the synergy with pack rat, but today you do not see lists with pack rat, so why mutavault continues on the deck? because 2/2 precisely, how does the 2/2 generated by waste not impact the game?
The mana generated by the waste not depends on what you have in hand, sometimes the opponent discards land and you use the mana to play another card.
Anyway, you'll spend most of your time throwing the opponent off and you have a card that generates a draw, or mana or a 2/2 creature that serves as a chump block, it can not be bad.
how do you play the tron MU ?
what do you have in you sideboard ? Is there something to do or not ?
+2 Leyline of the Void
+1 Pack Rat
+2 Relic
+1 Fulminator
-1 Funeral Charm
-1 Shrieking
-2 Dismember
-2 Fatal Push
Grave hate disrupts Wurmcoil, Stars, Crucible and World Breaker. Play first to disrupt them better with your targeted discard. Depending on their hand you go for acceleration or payoff cards. Wait a bit with Wrench Minds, let them play their stars/maps. Remember that Ugin doesnt hit Racks. Field of Ruin can help. Surgical and Bridge are bad. After sideboard t1 Inquisition t2 Pack Rat is great
Playing since 1994: Currently MAGS (HomeBrew),Standard & Pauper (Pioneer and Modern are degenerate trash formats)
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Hi, I've played 8Rack long time ago (since 1 or 2 years) and I would like to know how it is in the current meta ? Atm it's seems pretty bad but I wanted to hear opinion from peoples who play it. How is the match up vs jund (with bb elf), rg ponza, control and humans ? Thanks !
Modern is very diverse now so its harder to feel matchups but I think Jund, RG Ponza and Control all became worse though still positive 50-60%. They were great matchups but Bloodbraid Elf gave them card advantage and speed, new walkers + Azcanta gave control card advantage, Rack became worse because of redirection nerf. I didnt play humans much though it looks about 60%. Overall 8 Rack is not a great choice now though still ok. 8 Rack becomes better when people stop playing it because its easy to mistplay against it. Though at top tables 8Rack is an underdog because pros usually dont misplay.
Fell Specter is bad, 4 cmc is late for discard and it doesnt do much overall
Karn Scion of Urza is only a sideboard card advantage tech against control imo. 4 cmc is not what we want, artifacts dont interact with Mutavault, overall doesnt do much provided we need to empty our hand to make full use of Liliana and Smallpox.
Here's the full matches report. I used the spoiler tags because it got quite lenghty.
Round 1 - Valakut
Game 1: Kept a hand with some disruption and an affliction. I managed to disrupt the game a lot and the second affliction showed up to finish the game. 1-0
Sideboard
out (7): 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 1 Dismember, 3 Fatal Push, 1 Inquisition of Kozilek, 1 Thoughtseize
in (7): 3 Dark Confidant, 3 Delirium Skeins, 1 Nezumi Shortfang
Game 2: I kept another nice hand with affliction and disruption while my opponent had to mulligan to five. The match was pretty straightfoward after that. 2-0
This guy was really nice. He said he loved this deck and even wished that I kept kicking ass (his words) in the next rounds.
Score: 1-0; Matches 2-0
Round 2 - RW Burn
Game 1: First hand had a Collective Brutality, 3 lands, a Liliana and two racks. I took a mulligan to a hand with 2 thoughtseizes, 2 swamps, a smallpox and a rack. Casted my first thoughtseize and I saw a bunch of red cards, thought I would lose the game. Hopefully he kept a one lander with Grim Lavamancer, Monastery Swiftspear. I took the swiftspear and killed his field on turn two with smallpox. He could not find a land for 5 turns and when he did, his goblin guide revealed a second smallpox. This gave me more than enough time to find the racks to close the game. 1-0
Sideboard
out (4): 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Thoughtseize
in (4): 1 Collective Brutality, 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Game 2: I took a mulligan to 5 in this game because my first two hands had a lot of disruption and no win conditions. The brutalities and wrench minds bought me enough time to start the mutavault beats. My opponent landed an Eidolon of the Great Revel to race my mutavaults and I chose to not kill it because I was ahead in the race. This worked really well because my opponent could not cast his spells and had to trade his Eidolon for one of the three mutavaults I had. The remaining mutavaults closed the game. 2-0
Score: 2-0; Matches 4-0
Round 3 - Affinity
Game 1: Kept a nice hand with Raven's Crime, Thoughtseize and Wrench Mind and a Rack, but since I was against affinity this did not go very well. My opponent had a fast start backed by a topdecked karn, which was enough to close the game. 0-1
Sideboard
out (8): 4 Thoughtseize, 2 Wrench Mind, 2 Raven's Crime
in (8): 1 Collective Brutality, 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 3 Dark Confidants
Game 2: I chose to be on the draw in this game. Kept an incredible hand with Bontu's, Smallpox, Mutavault, Dark Confidant, Urborg, Liliana and a Swamp. The smallpox wrecked his game and Dark Confidant closed the game with mutavault. 1-1
Game 3: Still on the draw, I kept a similar hand and Dark Confidant started the beats and the card advantage. My opponent managed to draw 2 cranial platings but he could not kill me since Bob gave me a fatal push. He's at 2 life facing two racks with no cards in hand and swings leaving me at 1 life. On my upkeep Dark Confidant reveals an Ensnaring Bridge to close the game. 1-2
I know Dark Confidant may be a questionable sideboard choice for this matchup, but sometimes we lose to affinity just because we cannot find racks or removal in time. Bob finds those cards while attacking for 2 every turn. Given the chance, I would choose him again.
Score: 2-1; Matches 5-2
Round 4 - Humans
Game 1: I kept another nice hand with disruption, one rack and Liliana. My opponent started with two nobles since I took his follow up Mantis Rider. I land a Liliana, but I lost her to a topdecked Mantis Rider. I thought the game was over, but I topdecked my single Ensnaring Bridge to lock him out of the game. 1-0
Sideboard
out (5): 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Raven's Crime
in (5): 1 Collective Brutality, 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning, 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Game 2: I think I took a mulligan to 6 cards and kept a hand with a little disruption and a Bontu's. My opponent had a fast start, but after the sweep he ran out of gas and died to a single rack. 2-0
Score: 3-1; Matches 7-2
Round 5 - Humans (again)
Game 1: I kept a decent hand on the play, but I did not have enough removal to keep up with his threats. I took a few creatures from this hand but the ones that entered the battlefield were enough to close the game. 0-1
Sideboard
out (5): 3 Thoughtseize, 2 Raven's Crime
in (5): 1 Collective Brutality, 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning, 1 Ensnaring Bridge
Game 2: This match went a lot better. I managed to control the board with removal for a while and, if I remember correctly I even found a sweeper. However my opponent played well and didn't overextend, forcing me to sweep only two creatures. He eventually rebuilt his board and took the game when I could not find another sweeper or a bridge. 0-2
Looking back I think I should have been more aggressive with my mulligans on game 2. Having a bridge is definitely a game changer in this match.
Score: 3-2; Matches 7-4
Round 6 - Green Tron
Game 1: Kept a nice hand with Liliana, 3 lands, Raven's Crime and 2 Afflictions, on the draw. My opponent proceeded to mulligan to 6 and I knew that this game would be easy. I quickly changed my mind after seeing a tron land on his first turn. Raven's crime wrecked his hand and the afflictions started hitting for 6, and then I drew my third affliction. 1-0
in (8): 3 Delirium Skeins, 3 Dark Confidant, 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 1 Collective Brutality
Game 2: I was pretty sure I would lose this round, but my opponent had to mulligan again and I had double racks with Raven's crime. I managed to keep his hand under control and the racks killed him before he could play his payoff cards. 2-0
After this match I had a nice talk with my opponent's friend, who also plays 8rack. We talked a bit about sideboard options and Infernal Tutor mainboard to find the racks more easily.
Score: 4-2; Matches 9-4
Round 7 - RW Burn (again)
Game 1: I started the game well with disruption and kept him off lands for a while. Mutavault starts the race but my opponent managed to land 2 Monsateries swiftspears that took over the game. 0-1
Sideboard
out (4): 3 Thoughtseize, 1 Ensnaring Bridge
in (4): 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 1 Collective Brutality, 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Game 2: I let my opponent start this match. He started with a Monastery Swiftspear and I started with an Inquisition of Kozilek. Turn 2 Collective Brutality for all modes clears the board, followed by an smallpox that keeps him off lands for a while. I draw another Brutality and another pox and a Rack and an Affliction closes the game. 1-1
Sideboard
out (1): 1 Dismember
in (1): 1 Delirium Skeins
Game 3: I'm on the draw again. Collective Brutality shows up again to clear the board and I'm able to finish him off with a Rack and an Affliction. 2-1
I wanted a single Delirium Skeins for game 3 because my opponent had too many cards in hand after losing his lands. However, I never got to cast it.
Score: 5-2; Matches 11-5
Round 8 - Dredge
Game 1: I started with a Collective Brutality on turn 2 and knew the game was over. I waited for my opponent to kill to get more information before sideboarding. I also knew that game two was gonna be hard, I'm not really a fan of leyline in this matchup. 0-1
Sideboard
out (8): 3 Fatal Push, 2 The Rack, 1 Raven's Crime, 2 Collective Brutality
in (8): 4 Leyline of the Void, 1 Nezumi Shortfang, 1 Ensnaring Bridge, 2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Game 2: My plan for this game was to keep hand with 2 leylines or 1 leyline plus targeted discard. From my testing one leyline it's just not enough. First hand had a Leyline, 4 lands, 1 Liliana and a Raven's Crime. I wanted to keep, but I knew it wasn't enough. So I kept mulliganing until 3 cards: Liliana and two lands. My opponent kept a 6 cards hand (with nature's claim) and won just as easily as game 1. 0-2
After the match my opponent asked if I was mulliganing to find a leyline. I explained my reasoning, and he said he kept a hand with nature's claim. This plan is also questionable, but given this sideboard, I would do the same again. In my opinion, the best option is to replace the leylines for surgicals and nihil spellbombs.
Score: 5-3; Matches 11-7
There's also a TLDR version
Finished 5-3 losing to Affinity, Humans Dredge in the final round for the win and in.
Round 1 Valakut: 2-0
Round 2 RW Burn: 2-0
Round 3 Affinity: 1-2
Round 4 Humans: 2-0
Round 5 Humans (again): 0-2
Round 6 Green Tron: 2-0
Round 7 RW Burn (again): 2-1
Round 8 Dredge: 0-2
Decklist improvements
- 4x Leyline of the Void
I've never been really fond of leylines in 8rack. If you can't start the game with one in play you made your deck a lot worse for nothing. Even when you do start with one in play, you still have 3 dead cards. I'm going back to 3 surgicals and 1 Nihil Spellbomb because I think they are better options for 8rack.
out(4): 4 Leyline of the Void (SB)
in(4): 3 Surgical Extraction (SB), 1 Nihil Spellbomb (SB)
- 2x Sweepers
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning in the side felt great alongside the 2 Ensnaring Bridges. However, since we do not have card draw, another sweeper could be valuable in the sideboard. It could be either Bontu's Last Reckoning, Flaying Tendrils, Drown in Sorrow or Ratchet Bomb.
out(1): 1 Collective Brutality (SB)
in(1): 1 Flaying Tendrils (SB)
- 4x Thoughtseize
After reading my notes I noticed that I sideboarded Thoughtseize a lot. This got me thinking that maybe 4 copies is one too many. Possible replacements are: 3rd Collective Brutality or Wrench Mind, 1st Funeral Charm or Blackmail. I won't change anything just yet because I still want to test more before deciding.
- 1x Nezumi Shortfang
I haven't got the chance to really test this guy yet, but he seems promising. The only problem I see with Nezumi is that he's not good against leyline because you can't flip him. Otherwise he would have been perfect. In case he gets replaced, viable options are the 4th Dark Confidant or the 1st Pack Rat.
Closing Thoughtseize
This was my first GP and I had a a great time. The deck felt somewhat well positioned, but maybe I just avoided all of my bad matchups. I did not make day 2 because I lost the win and in against Dredge, but I think that 8rack is still a viable option.
Congratulations for your first GP, it was a very good read, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. A couple of questions:
Do you think 23 lands is enough? I always run 24, but since we do not run 4CMC in the sideboard, it might be worthy to cut 1 land.
I also think 4x thoughtseizes is one too many, I use a 3-1 split thoughtseize-funeral charm since I don't want to draw one late game.
Do you think having 4x wrench mind is important since it is our only 2-for-1? I am a big fan of collective brutality as well since it acts like another smallpox when fast decks drop their hand quickly and wrench is good when they are slower.
I really like the flexibility of 1x funeral charm and 1x CB in the MB.
I've started building 8-Rack, proxied it up to get the feel of the deck, and i love it. I ran into a few issues and was wondering, how do we deal with chalice on 1? I'm probably missing something but do we just try to keep cards out of their hand and go to town with mutavault? thanks!
Fiasco, Chalice on 1 is a huge issue but in reality, not many people play chalice. If it's popular in your meta 8rack may be a less than optimal choice. Even so, many of our sideboard cards are designed to ignore chalice on 1. That's why you'll see alternate threats in the sideboard that usually aren't 1 cmc. The main exception to this rule is Death's Shadow which is there for burn and aggro (who won't be playing chalice). Good cards to fight against Chalice decks are Delirium Skeins, Pack Rat, Bitterblossom.
@wOrmspoon
I think 23 lands is a nice spot. I don't flood very often and I rarely get locked out of the game by my own smallpoxes.
The only thing keeping me from cutting a thoughtseize is how good it is on turn 1. Sometimes a timely target discard almost feels like winning the game.
Regarding 4x Wrench Mind, it is important, but I found that more often than not it ends up being a bad topdeck lategame. I started running the 2-2 split with CB after I trying 3 CB and 1 Infernal Tutor. I missed the wrench mind, but I don't think it is a 4-of. When I feel I need more copies, I just board in the sideboard Skeins.
@Timba
I'm looking forward for thoughts. I think we should explore aggressive mulligans more.
2-0 Jeskai Control - I did not sideboard anything, wrench mind was mvp, not a close match
2-1 GW CoCo Value Town
game 1: he steamrolled me, I kept a 1 lander and couldn't kill all his critters.
game 2: sided in Co Bru and Darkblast, ended quickly with a double mutavault beat down
game 3: double smallpox into double rack and cleared his top decked creatures with darkblast
2-1 GW Devoted Vizier
Smallpox and darkblast did the job once again, he never got the combo
Final round 2-0 Mono Red Goblins
two close games, sided out 4x thoughtseize for darkblast and Co Bru, manage to get a triple escalated and dredge darkblast for his last 3 top decked goblins before I slam a lili and a rack to shut him off
Necroplasm is a sweet alternative to Ratchet Bomb. I'm a fan.
I think you should board in Delirium Skeins against Blue control decks. Usually they are pretty good about keeping a full hand.
No Bontu's or Bridge? That sounds risky.
My previous build had 4x Bontu's, it's just that I'm not a fan of big sorcey that you use once and thats it, Darkblast is fantastic for that, It has won me 3 of my last 4 games. Same thing goes for vengeful pharaoh, a discard/smallpox friendly removal that act as a safety net that you can put in your graveyard with dakmor and darkblast.
I recently built this deck and had a blast, and i took it to a PPTQ and went 3-3 which was alright.
The thing is though that two of my losses were to UW Control (the third was to Jund who just had the nuts) and more specifically Search for Azcanta I think. The game felt pretty much in my favour until that thing hits the battlefield.
How can I better deal with Search for Azcanta or UW Control in general? Should I play Pithing Needle or land destruction in the sideboard for Azcanta?
So a couple of small notes,
A) I think you would benefit running more than 2x Wrench Mind, as turn 1 thought seize taking their SfA if they have it into a turn 2 wrench mind will usually make it difficult for them to come back
B) Against them I wouldn't side in the Delirium Skeins and would instead keep in the Smallpox as they rely heavily on getting to a large amount of mana over time... that and with delirium skeins, it is deceiving and hurts you more than them in most instances... they are trying to trade 1:1 value with counters and removal and will usually win battles in card advantage so although you hit them for three cards, they have more resources to draw back into answers.. delirium skeins is there as more of a way around Leyline of Sanctity when you can't target them
C) Since the deck is mono black.. you could technically get away with running 3-4 Field of Ruin which is what I started doing with my deck.. I just simply cut on my number of Urborg and cut to 3 mutavault
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Lavaclaw Reaches just can't do what Mutavault can do. With 8 rack you're at most playing off 3 lands, sometimes you got to 4 lands rarely do you ever go to 5. That leaves very little mana to activate Lavaclaw reachers and to do discard actions on the same turn. Remember with our rack effects we always have to keep them discarding based on what they draw. And very rarely will you ever have surplus mana to pump lavalclaw. If you regularly have 4 or more lands down to do all that pumping, I think your playing 8 rack sub optimally. We just use too many lands running raven's crime and pitching to smallpox
Also most deck's run pack rat in the sideboard and the mutavault synergy is too much to turn down. Too many times have I turned my 3/3 rats into 4/4 to take out blockers or survive bolts. With mutavault you don't need 4 lands (3 to activate plus lavaclaw reachers). You can pump your rats having only 1 mutavault, and you can 2/2 attack with only 2 lands with the mutavault. The resource requirements is just so much lower using mutavault compared to other creature lands. Plus you have increased synergy in the deck.
I've tried BR 8 rack. Personally I don't like it as much as mono black. I find I am increasing my mana curve putting in blightning and kolaghan's command. And I routinely get too many 3 drops in my hand. In my opinion a major reason I would considering going BR is to include rix maadi, dungeon because then at least you get a pseudo discard engine. But even that I've found it's too expensive, you need 4 lands just to activate it (and it costs you a card).
Lightning bolt is a benefit, but it's pretty meh. It's beneficial because it can hit planeswalkers and slightly increase your clock which are the main advantages over fatal push/dismember. But I don't think competitively it's a good enough draw to mix colours. In my opinion mono-black is still the way to go.
Dreadbore was actually my main reason to try to go BR. I just had too much hate for those pesky blue draw-card planeswalkers.
I read somewhere once that BR takes a bit longer to get going but can close out games faster. But I didn't find it as robust as the mono black.
How high of a ranking do you think someone can get playing 8 rack exclusively in constructed? Kind of a question of how competitive do you really think the deck is, can someone get an 1800+ rating playing 8 Rack exclusively?
Running into too many TRON on MTGO though, they are kind of posing a problem, but I guess that's life and you gotta play what you're dealt.
The only way to answer this question is to guinea pig myself.
Basically my strategy is to get lucky the first game. Then games 2 (or 3 if I was lucky game 1) I try to race them with pack rat out of my sideboard.
Too many of their cards just hose us. Because they have so much "exile target permanent" and really the only permanents they can really target is our lands (which they don't target) and our Racks. So needless to say the racks die quick. It's an extremely difficult match up.
If you want some actual strategy: target their big tron cards with thoughtseize so they have to top deck an answer, and early game try to destroy a Urza land with smallpox to slow them down. But it's a hard fight.
You do not need to suffer against the tron, if you are running the cersion with 4 smallpox, 3 fulminator mage on the sideboard is more than enough to balance the game against the tron and if you have surgical extraction is better yet.It has played like that and I have not had problems against tron.
If you are running the bridge version I would advise running 4 fulminator.
Fulminator mage helps not only against the tron but can be useful against other decks.
Regarding mindstab, I really do not see efficiency on that card. I do not play or play with him.
Waste not, I think you're underestimating the card's power. At first mutavault was on the deck because of the synergy with pack rat, but today you do not see lists with pack rat, so why mutavault continues on the deck? because 2/2 precisely, how does the 2/2 generated by waste not impact the game?
The mana generated by the waste not depends on what you have in hand, sometimes the opponent discards land and you use the mana to play another card.
Anyway, you'll spend most of your time throwing the opponent off and you have a card that generates a draw, or mana or a 2/2 creature that serves as a chump block, it can not be bad.
this card I used a lot against control.
+1 Pack Rat
+2 Relic
+1 Fulminator
-1 Funeral Charm
-1 Shrieking
-2 Dismember
-2 Fatal Push
Grave hate disrupts Wurmcoil, Stars, Crucible and World Breaker. Play first to disrupt them better with your targeted discard. Depending on their hand you go for acceleration or payoff cards. Wait a bit with Wrench Minds, let them play their stars/maps. Remember that Ugin doesnt hit Racks. Field of Ruin can help. Surgical and Bridge are bad. After sideboard t1 Inquisition t2 Pack Rat is great
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
STOP using "dude/bro" as a pejorative or insult. Grow up.
Margaret Thatcher: “The problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other people's money.”
Benjamin Franklin: "Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
Martin Luther King Jr.: "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character."
Fell Specter is bad, 4 cmc is late for discard and it doesnt do much overall
Karn Scion of Urza is only a sideboard card advantage tech against control imo. 4 cmc is not what we want, artifacts dont interact with Mutavault, overall doesnt do much provided we need to empty our hand to make full use of Liliana and Smallpox.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Hello everyone!
I played at GP São Paulo last week (7/july) with monoblack 8rack. I did not made day 2, but I thought my report could still be somewhat valuable.
// 5 Artifact
1 Ensnaring Bridge
4 The Rack
// 4 Enchantment
4 Shrieking Affliction
// 4 Instant
1 Dismember
3 Fatal Push
// 23 Land
1 Marsh Flats
4 Mutavault
2 Polluted Delta
12 Swamp
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
// 4 Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
2 Collective Brutality
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
2 Wrench Mind
// 1 Artifact
1 Ensnaring Bridge
// 4 Creature
3 Dark Confidant
1 Nezumi Shortfang
// 4 Enchantment
4 Leyline of the Void
// 6 Sorcery
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Delirium Skeins
1 Collective Brutality
Here's the full matches report. I used the spoiler tags because it got quite lenghty.
Round 1 - Valakut
Game 1: Kept a hand with some disruption and an affliction. I managed to disrupt the game a lot and the second affliction showed up to finish the game. 1-0
Sideboard
Game 2: I kept another nice hand with affliction and disruption while my opponent had to mulligan to five. The match was pretty straightfoward after that. 2-0
This guy was really nice. He said he loved this deck and even wished that I kept kicking ass (his words) in the next rounds.
Score: 1-0; Matches 2-0
Round 2 - RW Burn
Game 1: First hand had a Collective Brutality, 3 lands, a Liliana and two racks. I took a mulligan to a hand with 2 thoughtseizes, 2 swamps, a smallpox and a rack. Casted my first thoughtseize and I saw a bunch of red cards, thought I would lose the game. Hopefully he kept a one lander with Grim Lavamancer, Monastery Swiftspear. I took the swiftspear and killed his field on turn two with smallpox. He could not find a land for 5 turns and when he did, his goblin guide revealed a second smallpox. This gave me more than enough time to find the racks to close the game. 1-0
Sideboard
Game 2: I took a mulligan to 5 in this game because my first two hands had a lot of disruption and no win conditions. The brutalities and wrench minds bought me enough time to start the mutavault beats. My opponent landed an Eidolon of the Great Revel to race my mutavaults and I chose to not kill it because I was ahead in the race. This worked really well because my opponent could not cast his spells and had to trade his Eidolon for one of the three mutavaults I had. The remaining mutavaults closed the game. 2-0
Score: 2-0; Matches 4-0
Round 3 - Affinity
Game 1: Kept a nice hand with Raven's Crime, Thoughtseize and Wrench Mind and a Rack, but since I was against affinity this did not go very well. My opponent had a fast start backed by a topdecked karn, which was enough to close the game. 0-1
Sideboard
Game 2: I chose to be on the draw in this game. Kept an incredible hand with Bontu's, Smallpox, Mutavault, Dark Confidant, Urborg, Liliana and a Swamp. The smallpox wrecked his game and Dark Confidant closed the game with mutavault. 1-1
Game 3: Still on the draw, I kept a similar hand and Dark Confidant started the beats and the card advantage. My opponent managed to draw 2 cranial platings but he could not kill me since Bob gave me a fatal push. He's at 2 life facing two racks with no cards in hand and swings leaving me at 1 life. On my upkeep Dark Confidant reveals an Ensnaring Bridge to close the game. 1-2
I know Dark Confidant may be a questionable sideboard choice for this matchup, but sometimes we lose to affinity just because we cannot find racks or removal in time. Bob finds those cards while attacking for 2 every turn. Given the chance, I would choose him again.
Score: 2-1; Matches 5-2
Round 4 - Humans
Game 1: I kept another nice hand with disruption, one rack and Liliana. My opponent started with two nobles since I took his follow up Mantis Rider. I land a Liliana, but I lost her to a topdecked Mantis Rider. I thought the game was over, but I topdecked my single Ensnaring Bridge to lock him out of the game. 1-0
Sideboard
Game 2: I think I took a mulligan to 6 cards and kept a hand with a little disruption and a Bontu's. My opponent had a fast start, but after the sweep he ran out of gas and died to a single rack. 2-0
Score: 3-1; Matches 7-2
Round 5 - Humans (again)
Game 1: I kept a decent hand on the play, but I did not have enough removal to keep up with his threats. I took a few creatures from this hand but the ones that entered the battlefield were enough to close the game. 0-1
Sideboard
Game 2: This match went a lot better. I managed to control the board with removal for a while and, if I remember correctly I even found a sweeper. However my opponent played well and didn't overextend, forcing me to sweep only two creatures. He eventually rebuilt his board and took the game when I could not find another sweeper or a bridge. 0-2
Looking back I think I should have been more aggressive with my mulligans on game 2. Having a bridge is definitely a game changer in this match.
Score: 3-2; Matches 7-4
Round 6 - Green Tron
Game 1: Kept a nice hand with Liliana, 3 lands, Raven's Crime and 2 Afflictions, on the draw. My opponent proceeded to mulligan to 6 and I knew that this game would be easy. I quickly changed my mind after seeing a tron land on his first turn. Raven's crime wrecked his hand and the afflictions started hitting for 6, and then I drew my third affliction. 1-0
Sideboard (no notes, so I'm not sure)
Game 2: I was pretty sure I would lose this round, but my opponent had to mulligan again and I had double racks with Raven's crime. I managed to keep his hand under control and the racks killed him before he could play his payoff cards. 2-0
After this match I had a nice talk with my opponent's friend, who also plays 8rack. We talked a bit about sideboard options and Infernal Tutor mainboard to find the racks more easily.
Score: 4-2; Matches 9-4
Round 7 - RW Burn (again)
Game 1: I started the game well with disruption and kept him off lands for a while. Mutavault starts the race but my opponent managed to land 2 Monsateries swiftspears that took over the game. 0-1
Sideboard
Game 2: I let my opponent start this match. He started with a Monastery Swiftspear and I started with an Inquisition of Kozilek. Turn 2 Collective Brutality for all modes clears the board, followed by an smallpox that keeps him off lands for a while. I draw another Brutality and another pox and a Rack and an Affliction closes the game. 1-1
Sideboard
Game 3: I'm on the draw again. Collective Brutality shows up again to clear the board and I'm able to finish him off with a Rack and an Affliction. 2-1
I wanted a single Delirium Skeins for game 3 because my opponent had too many cards in hand after losing his lands. However, I never got to cast it.
Score: 5-2; Matches 11-5
Round 8 - Dredge
Game 1: I started with a Collective Brutality on turn 2 and knew the game was over. I waited for my opponent to kill to get more information before sideboarding. I also knew that game two was gonna be hard, I'm not really a fan of leyline in this matchup. 0-1
Sideboard
Game 2: My plan for this game was to keep hand with 2 leylines or 1 leyline plus targeted discard. From my testing one leyline it's just not enough. First hand had a Leyline, 4 lands, 1 Liliana and a Raven's Crime. I wanted to keep, but I knew it wasn't enough. So I kept mulliganing until 3 cards: Liliana and two lands. My opponent kept a 6 cards hand (with nature's claim) and won just as easily as game 1. 0-2
After the match my opponent asked if I was mulliganing to find a leyline. I explained my reasoning, and he said he kept a hand with nature's claim. This plan is also questionable, but given this sideboard, I would do the same again. In my opinion, the best option is to replace the leylines for surgicals and nihil spellbombs.
Score: 5-3; Matches 11-7
There's also a TLDR version
Finished 5-3 losing to Affinity, Humans Dredge in the final round for the win and in.
Decklist improvements
- 4x Leyline of the Void
I've never been really fond of leylines in 8rack. If you can't start the game with one in play you made your deck a lot worse for nothing. Even when you do start with one in play, you still have 3 dead cards. I'm going back to 3 surgicals and 1 Nihil Spellbomb because I think they are better options for 8rack.
- 2x Sweepers
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning in the side felt great alongside the 2 Ensnaring Bridges. However, since we do not have card draw, another sweeper could be valuable in the sideboard. It could be either Bontu's Last Reckoning, Flaying Tendrils, Drown in Sorrow or Ratchet Bomb.
- 4x Thoughtseize
After reading my notes I noticed that I sideboarded Thoughtseize a lot. This got me thinking that maybe 4 copies is one too many. Possible replacements are: 3rd Collective Brutality or Wrench Mind, 1st Funeral Charm or Blackmail. I won't change anything just yet because I still want to test more before deciding.
- 1x Nezumi Shortfang
I haven't got the chance to really test this guy yet, but he seems promising. The only problem I see with Nezumi is that he's not good against leyline because you can't flip him. Otherwise he would have been perfect. In case he gets replaced, viable options are the 4th Dark Confidant or the 1st Pack Rat.
Closing Thoughts
eizeThis was my first GP and I had a a great time. The deck felt somewhat well positioned, but maybe I just avoided all of my bad matchups. I did not make day 2 because I lost the win and in against Dredge, but I think that 8rack is still a viable option.
Do you think 23 lands is enough? I always run 24, but since we do not run 4CMC in the sideboard, it might be worthy to cut 1 land.
I also think 4x thoughtseizes is one too many, I use a 3-1 split thoughtseize-funeral charm since I don't want to draw one late game.
Do you think having 4x wrench mind is important since it is our only 2-for-1? I am a big fan of collective brutality as well since it acts like another smallpox when fast decks drop their hand quickly and wrench is good when they are slower.
I really like the flexibility of 1x funeral charm and 1x CB in the MB.
Ill write my thoughts on sideboarding and mulliganing
With Tron and Dredge you definitely didnt avoid all your bad matchups
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
@wOrmspoon
I think 23 lands is a nice spot. I don't flood very often and I rarely get locked out of the game by my own smallpoxes.
The only thing keeping me from cutting a thoughtseize is how good it is on turn 1. Sometimes a timely target discard almost feels like winning the game.
Regarding 4x Wrench Mind, it is important, but I found that more often than not it ends up being a bad topdeck lategame. I started running the 2-2 split with CB after I trying 3 CB and 1 Infernal Tutor. I missed the wrench mind, but I don't think it is a 4-of. When I feel I need more copies, I just board in the sideboard Skeins.
@Timba
I'm looking forward for thoughts. I think we should explore aggressive mulligans more.
2-0 Jeskai Control - I did not sideboard anything, wrench mind was mvp, not a close match
2-1 GW CoCo Value Town
game 1: he steamrolled me, I kept a 1 lander and couldn't kill all his critters.
game 2: sided in Co Bru and Darkblast, ended quickly with a double mutavault beat down
game 3: double smallpox into double rack and cleared his top decked creatures with darkblast
2-1 GW Devoted Vizier
Smallpox and darkblast did the job once again, he never got the combo
Final round 2-0 Mono Red Goblins
two close games, sided out 4x thoughtseize for darkblast and Co Bru, manage to get a triple escalated and dredge darkblast for his last 3 top decked goblins before I slam a lili and a rack to shut him off
My list:
https://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-06-18-8-rack/?cb=1533236744
Thanks!
I think you should board in Delirium Skeins against Blue control decks. Usually they are pretty good about keeping a full hand.
No Bontu's or Bridge? That sounds risky.
The thing is though that two of my losses were to UW Control (the third was to Jund who just had the nuts) and more specifically Search for Azcanta I think. The game felt pretty much in my favour until that thing hits the battlefield.
How can I better deal with Search for Azcanta or UW Control in general? Should I play Pithing Needle or land destruction in the sideboard for Azcanta?
EDIT:
Here's the list I played:
2 Collective Brutality
1 Dismember
2 Ensnaring Bridge
3 Fatal Push
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Raven's Crime
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Smallpox
4 The Rack
3 Thoughtseize
2 Wrench Mind
14 Swamp
4 Mutavault
1 Bloodstained Mire
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
3 Asylum Visitor
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
3 Delirium Skeins
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Nezumi Shortfang
2 Ratchet Bomb
Matches:
0-2 Jeskai Control
2-1 Counter Cat (WURG Nacatl Delver)
2-0 Affinity
2-0 Hollow One
0-2 UW Control
0-2 Jund
I boarded like this against Control:
+3 Delirium Skeins
+3 Asylum Visitor
+1 Nezumi Shortfang
-4 Smallpox
-1 Fatal Push
-2 Ensnaring Bridge
Should I bring in Leyline of the Void against Control?
A) I think you would benefit running more than 2x Wrench Mind, as turn 1 thought seize taking their SfA if they have it into a turn 2 wrench mind will usually make it difficult for them to come back
B) Against them I wouldn't side in the Delirium Skeins and would instead keep in the Smallpox as they rely heavily on getting to a large amount of mana over time... that and with delirium skeins, it is deceiving and hurts you more than them in most instances... they are trying to trade 1:1 value with counters and removal and will usually win battles in card advantage so although you hit them for three cards, they have more resources to draw back into answers.. delirium skeins is there as more of a way around Leyline of Sanctity when you can't target them
C) Since the deck is mono black.. you could technically get away with running 3-4 Field of Ruin which is what I started doing with my deck.. I just simply cut on my number of Urborg and cut to 3 mutavault