You could also -2 Lilly to trade with a creature, and then follow up with a Fatal Push to take another one. It's a desperate trade, but it's sometimes worth it.
Also, 80% of the time or so, we don't really need to trigger Revolt.
You could also -2 Lilly to trade with a creature, and then follow up with a Fatal Push to take another one. It's a desperate trade, but it's sometimes worth it.
Also, 80% of the time or so, we don't really need to trigger Revolt.
This is normally the case. Most problematic creatures cost less than 2 regardless. Prime example, creatures like BoB, DS, Goyf, Snap, Majority of Humans/Merfolk in either of those decks.
That's not a bad idea. Sometimes Lili is dead regardless and this way uses her to your benefit. Good play!
Yes, you have to be aware of the multiple ways of enabling Revolt; however, this should not be a priority most the time. As mentioned, 80% of the problematic creatures that decks run are CMC 2 or less.
I haven't played 8 rack in awhile, but am thinking of bringing it back but have seen a increase in 5c humans. IS this a bad matchup for us? They play similar to affinity which I recall being a bad matchup for us, but they growing bigger and wider faster. Just wanted to get your guys' opinion
I haven't played 8 rack in awhile, but am thinking of bringing it back but have seen a increase in 5c humans. IS this a bad matchup for us? They play similar to affinity which I recall being a bad matchup for us, but they growing bigger and wider faster. Just wanted to get your guys' opinion
With a rise in swarm decks, I've began to maindeck Bontu's as a result. The match up is not as awful as it seems
played against:
5 storm
2 titanshift
2 ur breach
2 humans
1 affinity
1 nauseam
1 sultai white shadow
so basicaly good pairings overall and got rewarded for ignoring dredge and tron
the losses where against storm, nauseam and ur breach, they are favourable but those where the rounds where i took more mulligans, missed landrops or couldnt cast spells because of mutavault
overall im happy with the list, thoughtseize is very good turns 1-2 but later in the game you cant afford the 2 life in a race or to waste mana and not making him discard a card because the 1 or 2 cards he has in hand are lands
i think 4 muta + 4 urborg its to greedy and 24 lands are to many
infernal tutor as a one of was quite good, helps a lot in topdeck mode and its fine without hellbent
4 skeins and 4 reckoning might be 1 to many because sometimes you just want 2 or 3, but the 4th copy its gold when you need to see one of them in order to win the game (white leyline, humans, etc)
i liked the list but i could see myself cutting the 3rd brutality for a packrat or something
lately I have bad results. Many times I miss some other winn condition. many times I lose the game because I do not have raven's crime or because I do not have dakmor salvage cover. in many games only discarded insured by turn and you can fail the landrop. I think I'll play with 23 lands and a tombstalker of mb. any suggestion?
I've been running 23 lands for quite some time now. I do believe that is the correct amount of lands for the deck without having issue in flooding. You may wanna try running the likes of say 2 Pack Rats main as another Win Con?
You run 4 urborg 4 muta ? Or 3/3? Pack rat is very slow
4/4 in main. Run 13 Swamps, 2 Polluted Delta's, 4 Mutavaults, 4 Urborg. You could also run Nezumi Shortfang as an option as that has seen some play but very rarely. Pack Rat you say is "very" slow; however, if your opponent cannot deal with it in 2 turns the game is over. With the exhaustion from discard, Rats can be very threatening. That is why many choose to run 3-4 in their Sideboard as a creature package.
I don't think the deck is dead. It frequently pops up in top 8s or GP lists.
I do think the forum is relatively dead because there isn't much flex or tuning that can be accomplished at this point. There is micro tuning that can be done for individual metas, but there aren't any new cards or variations of this deck floating around to make it stronger. That's my opinion anyways.
8Rack is still strong
Meta is a bit worse now with Gx Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Dredge and Mardu Pyro being popular
Remember pro tour champion has chosen 8Rack as a deck to play before last day switch
I intend for a long time to make a big post about play-draw reasoning but didnt find the time to finish it, perhaps this will invigorate the thread
lately I have bad results. Many times I miss some other winn condition. many times I lose the game because I do not have raven's crime or because I do not have dakmor salvage cover. in many games only discarded insured by turn and you can fail the landrop. I think I'll play with 23 lands and a tombstalker of mb. any suggestion?
Play 23 lands, I switched a long time ago. Dont play Tombstalker, nobody is scared by undercosted beater, especially when it doesnt go well with the rest of the deck
I use pack rat if I think someone might side in leyline of sanctity. Also if I feel an opponent takes out their removal package I put it in. The little guys got me an easy win vs u/w control.
The deck is definitely not dead and actually has seen a bit of success recently. It's definitely not a tier 1 deck, but can do strong in large tournaments with a bit of luck. As someone mentioned earlier, the forum is a bit dead due to a lack of innovation to the build. People are entertaining ideas as R or G splashes, but the majority can still say Mono-Black is the most consistent and most powerful for right now. There are micro tuning based on type of tournament one wants to enter and the expected meta you face (Minds vs CB's MB, SB adjustments, 4/3 Thoughtseize/IOK split, etc.)
Can anyone help me make my budget build a bit better? I don't have lilis or TS (which is the budget part im sorry i dont have them), but i have a lot of other choices and I have no idea which should be more valued. My current decklist:
I feel like I don't like the Necrogen Mists, though they are good against decks that try to draw and hold a lot of cards. I have access to more blackmail, funeral charms, another ratchet bomb, and more duresses. Any other cheaper discard I can easily get at my LGS I just don't have the money to get lili right now. I think I want to drop the mists, and maybe bring the waste nots into the mainboard, but they would also be taking the spot of more discard spells and could lead to bad topdecks.
Add Mutavaults, go to 3 for Necrogen Mists, max out Funeral Charms, replace one Fatal Push with Dismember, remove Duress, remove one Victim of Night, replace another with Dismember if you add Mutavaults. Add Fatal Pushes to sideboard, remove Waste Nots, replace Spellbombs with Relics if your meta has Tarmogoyfs. Things I less confident with, they are more like personal preference: get Flaying Tendrils over Bontu's Last Reckoning, remove Surgicals and Ratchet Bombs, add Bile Blight, have a look at my build and maybe take something from it or 'maybeboard'.
How is going to work The Rack with the new legendary rule? Not sure if you could choose player o planeswalker as it enters the battlefield or just can't do damage to planeswalkers with it anymore.
Also, 80% of the time or so, we don't really need to trigger Revolt.
This is normally the case. Most problematic creatures cost less than 2 regardless. Prime example, creatures like BoB, DS, Goyf, Snap, Majority of Humans/Merfolk in either of those decks.
Yes, you have to be aware of the multiple ways of enabling Revolt; however, this should not be a priority most the time. As mentioned, 80% of the problematic creatures that decks run are CMC 2 or less.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
With a rise in swarm decks, I've began to maindeck Bontu's as a result. The match up is not as awful as it seems
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
What were your team mates using?
I've been running 23 lands for quite some time now. I do believe that is the correct amount of lands for the deck without having issue in flooding. You may wanna try running the likes of say 2 Pack Rats main as another Win Con?
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
4/4 in main. Run 13 Swamps, 2 Polluted Delta's, 4 Mutavaults, 4 Urborg. You could also run Nezumi Shortfang as an option as that has seen some play but very rarely. Pack Rat you say is "very" slow; however, if your opponent cannot deal with it in 2 turns the game is over. With the exhaustion from discard, Rats can be very threatening. That is why many choose to run 3-4 in their Sideboard as a creature package.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
I don't think the deck is dead. It frequently pops up in top 8s or GP lists.
I do think the forum is relatively dead because there isn't much flex or tuning that can be accomplished at this point. There is micro tuning that can be done for individual metas, but there aren't any new cards or variations of this deck floating around to make it stronger. That's my opinion anyways.
Meta is a bit worse now with Gx Tron, Eldrazi Tron, Dredge and Mardu Pyro being popular
Remember pro tour champion has chosen 8Rack as a deck to play before last day switch
I intend for a long time to make a big post about play-draw reasoning but didnt find the time to finish it, perhaps this will invigorate the thread
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
4 Shrieking Affliction
Land
8 Swamp
1 Rix Maadi, Dungeon Palace
1 Mutavault
4 Blackcleave Cliffs
1 Blood Crypt
2 Mutavault
2 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Bloodstained Mire
Artifact
4 The Rack
3 Fatal Push
1 Dismember
Sorcery
3 Wrench Mind
3 Blackmail
2 Blightning
4 Smallpox
4 Raven's Crime
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
Planeswalker
4 Liliana of the Veil
3 Pack Rat
1 Asylum Visitor
2 Relic of Progenitus
1 Pithing Needle
1 Rakdos Charm
1 Kolaghan's Command
1 Fatal Push
3 Delirium Skeins
1 By Force
1 Bontu's Last Reckoning
I have 5-0 the past 2 times that I have gone to a modern tournament at my LGS. The decks I played against are down below.
2-0 Jund Death Shadow
2-0 Infect
2-1 Sultai good stuff
2-0 Boros Burn
2-0 U/W Control
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Necrogen Mists
3 Fatal Push
1 Funeral Charm
2 Blackmail
1 Duress
2 Victim of Night
4 Smallpox
22 Swamp
1 Dakmor Salvage
My sideboard:
3 Asylum Visitor
2 Waste Not
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
2 Ratchet Bomb
I feel like I don't like the Necrogen Mists, though they are good against decks that try to draw and hold a lot of cards. I have access to more blackmail, funeral charms, another ratchet bomb, and more duresses. Any other cheaper discard I can easily get at my LGS I just don't have the money to get lili right now. I think I want to drop the mists, and maybe bring the waste nots into the mainboard, but they would also be taking the spot of more discard spells and could lead to bad topdecks.
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!