3 Rack players just topped 8 at a SCG classic. I feel like the deck is a good dark horse deck, but could probably use a card or two to really push it to the edge of consideration for t2 or t1.5 in meta decks....The question is, what does the deck need? a more versatile method of discard? or a 3rd rack outlet?
I dont think it will last long even as t2. Deck's success is hugely impacted by unprepared opponents (both card wise and experience wise).
Its not hard to hate out 8Rack so I doubt it will ever be the deck to beat.
Btw two of the lists are identical so this can be an error in reporting
Anyone thought about splashing white and playing 4 lingering souls? Replacing 4x smallpox - You would add Souls to the mainboard and 4 smallpox in side (or vice versa) and switch them as needed? Or is that a bad idea?
Got that idea because small creature decks or enemy souls can kill us. So our souls would stall the game long enough for the rack to win..
Landbase could consist of 4x concealed courtyard, 4x marsh flats, 1x godless shrine, 4 mutavault, 4 urborg, 6x swamp?
I think you're describing a deck which already exists. It's not popular or "meta" but it's good in a general sense for things like fnm (as possible as we're able to say such things).
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Modern: G Tron, Vannifar, Jund, Druid/Vizier combo, Humans, Eldrazi Stompy (Serum Powder), Amulet, Grishoalbrand, Breach Titan, Turns, Eternal Command, As Foretold Living End, Elves, Cheerios, RUG Scapeshift
played against:
5 storm
2 titanshift
2 ur breach
2 humans
1 affinity
1 nauseam
1 sultai white shadow
so basicaly good pairings overall and got rewarded for ignoring dredge and tron
the losses where against storm, nauseam and ur breach, they are favourable but those where the rounds where i took more mulligans, missed landrops or couldnt cast spells because of mutavault
overall im happy with the list, thoughtseize is very good turns 1-2 but later in the game you cant afford the 2 life in a race or to waste mana and not making him discard a card because the 1 or 2 cards he has in hand are lands
i think 4 muta + 4 urborg its to greedy and 24 lands are to many
infernal tutor as a one of was quite good, helps a lot in topdeck mode and its fine without hellbent
4 skeins and 4 reckoning might be 1 to many because sometimes you just want 2 or 3, but the 4th copy its gold when you need to see one of them in order to win the game (white leyline, humans, etc)
i liked the list but i could see myself cutting the 3rd brutality for a packrat or something
played against:
5 storm
2 titanshift
2 ur breach
2 humans
1 affinity
1 nauseam
1 sultai white shadow
so basicaly good pairings overall and got rewarded for ignoring dredge and tron
the losses where against storm, nauseam and ur breach, they are favourable but those where the rounds where i took more mulligans, missed landrops or couldnt cast spells because of mutavault
overall im happy with the list, thoughtseize is very good turns 1-2 but later in the game you cant afford the 2 life in a race or to waste mana and not making him discard a card because the 1 or 2 cards he has in hand are lands
i think 4 muta + 4 urborg its to greedy and 24 lands are to many
infernal tutor as a one of was quite good, helps a lot in topdeck mode and its fine without hellbent
4 skeins and 4 reckoning might be 1 to many because sometimes you just want 2 or 3, but the 4th copy its gold when you need to see one of them in order to win the game (white leyline, humans, etc)
i liked the list but i could see myself cutting the 3rd brutality for a packrat or something
Excellent run with the deck. The deck itself looks pretty stock outside Infernal Tutor. I can see your argument to dropping down to 2 Thoughtseize, my question is why not replace the 3rd Thoughtseize with 1 Blackmail instead of the 3rd Funeral Charm? I also can see your concern with the greediness of 4 Mutavaults/4 Urborg, but don't you think that Mutavaults are very important and extra Urborgs can be pitched if need be?
11-3 at gp madrid with 8rack! good for 11th place, it was teams but my record was also 11-3
Congrats man!!
I played the same event with a very poor record: 4-5
Finally, I played a Ensnaring Bridge version, removing most of removal as we commented here. I tested in mtgo several leagues before the event and had decent results finishing 3-2 in most of them.
Played against:
R1: Abzan (0-2)
R2: Storm (2-0)
R3: Abzan (1-2) - Rat plan won me the second game
R4: Bogles (1-2) - really missed smallpox here
R5: Jeskay (1-2)
R6: Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
R7: Merfolk (1-2) - Don't let them play first if you go on the bridge plan, I could have won this match just playing first.
R8: The Rock (2-0)
R9: Scapeshift (2-1)
I always chose to draw first except when I went into the rat plan after sideboarding.
Seems pretty obvious that Smallpox plan is the way to go instead bridge plan but I think the main problem I had, were some mistakes I made.
11-3 at gp madrid with 8rack! good for 11th place, it was teams but my record was also 11-3
Congrats man!!
I played the same event with a very poor record: 4-5
Finally, I played a Ensnaring Bridge version, removing most of removal as we commented here. I tested in mtgo several leagues before the event and had decent results finishing 3-2 in most of them.
Played against:
R1: Abzan (0-2)
R2: Storm (2-0)
R3: Abzan (1-2) - Rat plan won me the second game
R4: Bogles (1-2) - really missed smallpox here
R5: Jeskay (1-2)
R6: Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
R7: Merfolk (1-2) - Don't let them play first if you go on the bridge plan, I could have won this match just playing first.
R8: The Rock (2-0)
R9: Scapeshift (2-1)
I always chose to draw first except when I went into the rat plan after sideboarding.
Seems pretty obvious that Smallpox plan is the way to go instead bridge plan but I think the main problem I had, were some mistakes I made.
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
Grats with nice finish
I play with 3 Funeral Charms like forever but I never saw others do it
What Im definitely not a fan of is sideboard without graveyard hate. What are you going to do with Dredge, Living End and other graveyard strategies? Scoop?) Also your sideboard seems to have nothing vs Tron
Excellent run with the deck. The deck itself looks pretty stock outside Infernal Tutor. I can see your argument to dropping down to 2 Thoughtseize, my question is why not replace the 3rd Thoughtseize with 1 Blackmail instead of the 3rd Funeral Charm? I also can see your concern with the greediness of 4 Mutavaults/4 Urborg, but don't you think that Mutavaults are very important and extra Urborgs can be pitched if need be?
Thanks!
didnt think of blackmail, i will have to try it
3/3 instead of 4/4 its to avoid drawing multiples early, when you have only seen 1/6 of the deck and might be low on lands, maybe its easier to run 4/4 with 24 lands
Excellent run with the deck. The deck itself looks pretty stock outside Infernal Tutor. I can see your argument to dropping down to 2 Thoughtseize, my question is why not replace the 3rd Thoughtseize with 1 Blackmail instead of the 3rd Funeral Charm? I also can see your concern with the greediness of 4 Mutavaults/4 Urborg, but don't you think that Mutavaults are very important and extra Urborgs can be pitched if need be?
Thanks!
didnt think of blackmail, i will have to try it
3/3 instead of 4/4 its to avoid drawing multiples early, when you have only seen 1/6 of the deck and might be low on lands, maybe its easier to run 4/4 with 24 lands
But wouldn't you argue that Mutavault at the very least is one of your win-conditions? Mutavault's versatility is so strong for us against several of these meta decks. Trading a Champion for a Mutavault, setting a blocker for Lilli, Beat down? I can see why you'd drop to 3 Urborg as it can at times be cloggy, but I really believe 4 Mutavaults are very necessary.
But wouldn't you argue that Mutavault at the very least is one of your win-conditions? Mutavault's versatility is so strong for us against several of these meta decks. Trading a Champion for a Mutavault, setting a blocker for Lilli, Beat down? I can see why you'd drop to 3 Urborg as it can at times be cloggy, but I really believe 4 Mutavaults are very necessary.
i dont know, not trying to convince anyone, i just dont like to many variance in the manabase. maybe its worth to play the 4th mutavault in the blackmail/3rd charm slot
11-3 at gp madrid with 8rack! good for 11th place, it was teams but my record was also 11-3
played against:
5 storm
2 titanshift
2 ur breach
2 humans
1 affinity
1 nauseam
1 sultai white shadow
so basicaly good pairings overall and got rewarded for ignoring dredge and tron
the losses where against storm, nauseam and ur breach, they are favourable but those where the rounds where i took more mulligans, missed landrops or couldnt cast spells because of mutavault
overall im happy with the list, thoughtseize is very good turns 1-2 but later in the game you cant afford the 2 life in a race or to waste mana and not making him discard a card because the 1 or 2 cards he has in hand are lands
i think 4 muta + 4 urborg its to greedy and 24 lands are to many
infernal tutor as a one of was quite good, helps a lot in topdeck mode and its fine without hellbent
4 skeins and 4 reckoning might be 1 to many because sometimes you just want 2 or 3, but the 4th copy its gold when you need to see one of them in order to win the game (white leyline, humans, etc)
i liked the list but i could see myself cutting the 3rd brutality for a packrat or something
Finally! Someone else that plays an infernal tutor! Since adding it to the deck a year ago, i have never taken it out. I expect more players to start using it soon. Well done on your 11-3!
Finally! Someone else that plays an infernal tutor! Since adding it to the deck a year ago, i have never taken it out. I expect more players to start using it soon. Well done on your 11-3!
I'm using Infernal tutor for some time. Im not sold on it. Tutoring is nice but it highers that card's mana cost while we want to operate on low curve. In a typical situation of 3 mana and Smallpox plus 1 card in hand Affliction is great while Tutor is awkward.
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
Collective Brutality is a very nice card in my deck because it helps me to run out of cards for bridge if needed and is a (nonpremiun) targeted removal. In nonbridge builds I prefer Collective Brutality in the sideboard.
Rat plan has worked pretty well for me always. In GP Madrid I sideboarded rats vs Abzan in second games choosing to start and they gave me a win. I also used them vs Bogles because of they are nice against Leyline of Sanctity and would have used vs The Rock if I would have lost a game and could play first.
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
Collective Brutality is a very nice card in my deck because it helps me to run out of cards for bridge if needed and is a (nonpremiun) targeted removal. In nonbridge builds I prefer Collective Brutality in the sideboard.
Rat plan has worked pretty well for me always. In GP Madrid I sideboarded rats vs Abzan in second games choosing to start and they gave me a win. I also used them vs Bogles because of they are nice against Leyline of Sanctity and would have used vs The Rock if I would have lost a game and could play first.
Yeah, I've found that with the shear amount of Aggro and builds that are creature heavy, Bontu's even with the timewalk is such a beating for our opponent that we find ourselves ahead 90% of the time. I've pitched both my CB's to the Side which I agree with you, very good against Burn builds, but pretty much it. Do you have an idea on the Pox list you are looking to run?
If not, feel free to check my list in my signature for a general basis to the deck. There are a few flex slots you can play around with along with your sideboard to fit your meta, but the general skeleton to the deck is there.
Reid Duke posted this list a while ago and I wanted to have your thoughts on this.
My mainbaord is 100% identical except for dismembers who are now fatal push. What do you think of his sideboard? I love bloodghast as an answer for leyline/chalice on 1 as well as slow control deck that side out removal on game 2. There is no particular graveyard hate beside waste not, how can this deal with a reanimator deck bringing back a fattie on board? Nevertheless, I always loved those tight all 4-ofs lists.
16 Swamp
4 Mutavault
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Dismember
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven’s Crime
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
4 Wrench Mind
Sideboard
4 Bloodghast
2 Waste Not
1 Darkblast
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Night of Souls’ Betrayal
4 Deathmark
1 Tasigur’s Cruelty[/d]
What does everyone thing of 3 Dark confidant in SB? Against trobulesome decks that are hard to discard like any variants of Tron. And also Lantern control, considering its rise in popularity. Opponents will side out most of the creature removal, making bob stick to the board. Plus it acts as an wincon against lantern with no bridges postboard.
What does everyone thing of 3 Dark confidant in SB? Against trobulesome decks that are hard to discard like any variants of Tron. And also Lantern control, considering its rise in popularity. Opponents will side out most of the creature removal, making bob stick to the board. Plus it acts as an wincon against lantern with no bridges postboard.
Asylum Visitor fills that roll, arguably better than Bob, and was in the SCG Classic decks of the 8rack players that were in the Top8
Its not hard to hate out 8Rack so I doubt it will ever be the deck to beat.
Btw two of the lists are identical so this can be an error in reporting
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Got that idea because small creature decks or enemy souls can kill us. So our souls would stall the game long enough for the rack to win..
Landbase could consist of 4x concealed courtyard, 4x marsh flats, 1x godless shrine, 4 mutavault, 4 urborg, 6x swamp?
I think you're describing a deck which already exists. It's not popular or "meta" but it's good in a general sense for things like fnm (as possible as we're able to say such things).
2 thoughtseize
4 raven's crime
3 funeral charm
3 fatal push
1 dismember
4 smallpox
3 wrench mind
1 infernal tutor
4 liliana of the veil
4 the rack
4 shrieking affliction
17 swamp
3 mutavault
3 urborg, tomb of yawgmoth
3 collective brutality
1 fatal push
1 dismember
4 bontu's last reckoning
4 delirium skeins
played against:
5 storm
2 titanshift
2 ur breach
2 humans
1 affinity
1 nauseam
1 sultai white shadow
so basicaly good pairings overall and got rewarded for ignoring dredge and tron
the losses where against storm, nauseam and ur breach, they are favourable but those where the rounds where i took more mulligans, missed landrops or couldnt cast spells because of mutavault
overall im happy with the list, thoughtseize is very good turns 1-2 but later in the game you cant afford the 2 life in a race or to waste mana and not making him discard a card because the 1 or 2 cards he has in hand are lands
i think 4 muta + 4 urborg its to greedy and 24 lands are to many
infernal tutor as a one of was quite good, helps a lot in topdeck mode and its fine without hellbent
4 skeins and 4 reckoning might be 1 to many because sometimes you just want 2 or 3, but the 4th copy its gold when you need to see one of them in order to win the game (white leyline, humans, etc)
i liked the list but i could see myself cutting the 3rd brutality for a packrat or something
Excellent run with the deck. The deck itself looks pretty stock outside Infernal Tutor. I can see your argument to dropping down to 2 Thoughtseize, my question is why not replace the 3rd Thoughtseize with 1 Blackmail instead of the 3rd Funeral Charm? I also can see your concern with the greediness of 4 Mutavaults/4 Urborg, but don't you think that Mutavaults are very important and extra Urborgs can be pitched if need be?
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Congrats man!!
I played the same event with a very poor record: 4-5
Finally, I played a Ensnaring Bridge version, removing most of removal as we commented here. I tested in mtgo several leagues before the event and had decent results finishing 3-2 in most of them.
4 Thoughtseize
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven's Crime
4 Wrench Mind
2 Collective Brutality
2 Fatal Push
4 The Rack
4 Ensnaring Bridge
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Marsh Flats
3 Concealed Courtyard
1 Godless Shrine
8 Swamp
3 Disenchant
4 Pack Rat
4 Leyline of the Void
1 Shadow of Doubt
1 Timely Reinforcements
2 Bontu's Last Reckoning
Played against:
R1: Abzan (0-2)
R2: Storm (2-0)
R3: Abzan (1-2) - Rat plan won me the second game
R4: Bogles (1-2) - really missed smallpox here
R5: Jeskay (1-2)
R6: Eldrazi Tron (2-0)
R7: Merfolk (1-2) - Don't let them play first if you go on the bridge plan, I could have won this match just playing first.
R8: The Rock (2-0)
R9: Scapeshift (2-1)
I always chose to draw first except when I went into the rat plan after sideboarding.
Seems pretty obvious that Smallpox plan is the way to go instead bridge plan but I think the main problem I had, were some mistakes I made.
Sorry to hear about the performance, but hey that is how we learn to play the deck! I agree, the Smallpox plan is clearly the way to go because of the shear amount of artifact hate that will become boarded in. Smallpox has a severely crippling effect early on to many decks and it is one of the ways we try and beat Tron with it. I understand why Bridge would be appealing with the amount of aggro builds and creature heavy builds in the modern meta; however, I found maining 1 Bontu's is a necessity along with the Pox plan. It appears also that CB may not be what you want to run with in the MB if you do not expect a lot of burn. How did the Rat plan go for you when you did play them out?
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
What are your thoughts on Black Sun's Zenith in the SB? It seems really good to me since the -1/-1 do stack and it is reusable as well.
Thanks!
I play with 3 Funeral Charms like forever but I never saw others do it
What Im definitely not a fan of is sideboard without graveyard hate. What are you going to do with Dredge, Living End and other graveyard strategies? Scoop?) Also your sideboard seems to have nothing vs Tron
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
Thanks!
didnt think of blackmail, i will have to try it
3/3 instead of 4/4 its to avoid drawing multiples early, when you have only seen 1/6 of the deck and might be low on lands, maybe its easier to run 4/4 with 24 lands
But wouldn't you argue that Mutavault at the very least is one of your win-conditions? Mutavault's versatility is so strong for us against several of these meta decks. Trading a Champion for a Mutavault, setting a blocker for Lilli, Beat down? I can see why you'd drop to 3 Urborg as it can at times be cloggy, but I really believe 4 Mutavaults are very necessary.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
i dont know, not trying to convince anyone, i just dont like to many variance in the manabase. maybe its worth to play the 4th mutavault in the blackmail/3rd charm slot
Finally! Someone else that plays an infernal tutor! Since adding it to the deck a year ago, i have never taken it out. I expect more players to start using it soon. Well done on your 11-3!
G Green Stompy
RG Shamans
UB Mill
UG Infect
WUBRG Slivers!
I like the idea of maining Bontu's Last Reckoning in nonbridge builds.
Collective Brutality is a very nice card in my deck because it helps me to run out of cards for bridge if needed and is a (nonpremiun) targeted removal. In nonbridge builds I prefer Collective Brutality in the sideboard.
Rat plan has worked pretty well for me always. In GP Madrid I sideboarded rats vs Abzan in second games choosing to start and they gave me a win. I also used them vs Bogles because of they are nice against Leyline of Sanctity and would have used vs The Rock if I would have lost a game and could play first.
Yeah, I've found that with the shear amount of Aggro and builds that are creature heavy, Bontu's even with the timewalk is such a beating for our opponent that we find ourselves ahead 90% of the time. I've pitched both my CB's to the Side which I agree with you, very good against Burn builds, but pretty much it. Do you have an idea on the Pox list you are looking to run?
If not, feel free to check my list in my signature for a general basis to the deck. There are a few flex slots you can play around with along with your sideboard to fit your meta, but the general skeleton to the deck is there.
BB8-RackBB
Pauper:
UUDelverlUU
Reid Duke posted this list a while ago and I wanted to have your thoughts on this.
My mainbaord is 100% identical except for dismembers who are now fatal push. What do you think of his sideboard? I love bloodghast as an answer for leyline/chalice on 1 as well as slow control deck that side out removal on game 2. There is no particular graveyard hate beside waste not, how can this deal with a reanimator deck bringing back a fattie on board? Nevertheless, I always loved those tight all 4-ofs lists.
16 Swamp
4 Mutavault
4 Urborg, Tomb of Yawgmoth
4 Liliana of the Veil
4 The Rack
4 Shrieking Affliction
4 Dismember
4 Inquisition of Kozilek
4 Raven’s Crime
4 Smallpox
4 Thoughtseize
4 Wrench Mind
Sideboard
4 Bloodghast
2 Waste Not
1 Darkblast
1 Tasigur, the Golden Fang
2 Night of Souls’ Betrayal
4 Deathmark
1 Tasigur’s Cruelty[/d]
Asylum Visitor fills that roll, arguably better than Bob, and was in the SCG Classic decks of the 8rack players that were in the Top8