I've tried each splash except green, and I've gone back to mono black. The mana base is so good and basically blood moon proof.
My thinking is similar to yours yellow mountain in the way that I do think you pretty much need to focus on the racks if you're going to play them. I personally recommend no more than three cards that deviate from the linearity of the Rack approach MD and personally just play one Angler/ wincon. SB can be a different story especially if you go transformative.
I know other people have had success with more deviation, these are just my experiences.
I've been telling people to play Lingering Souls since forever but nobody listens. It's one of the best cards in the format against Death's Shadow and going white also means your sideboard is roughly 815% better.
For bloodghast, I don't see him as JUST a creature, but more of a ghetto discard. He EATS up removal that would have to be normally be taken away. We are causing our opponent to forcefully remove a card from their hand, so when we use our 1cmc discard its more effective in taking away something more useful for the enemy. The main caveat of bloodghast is that he reanimates with a land in play, so he's a seperate wincon when left alone that always hits for 2. So at all times, he eats removal and is always coming back in the battlefield, forcing our opponents to deal with 2 seperate angles at all times: either die to a 2/1 swinger by holding your cards in hand, or having to deal with him by using up your removal and emptying out your hand and letting the racks go to work.
Thats my thought process, sorry if my sentence structure is a mess. Typing this at work in between patients lol
Esperino> Fortunately for us we already have a really good matchup against Death's Shadow with monoblack, so I see absolutely no reason at all to go white to play Lingering Souls instead of keeping it monoblack and painless as BrandonJames16 stated.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
Esperino> Fortunately for us we already have a really good matchup against Death's Shadow with monoblack, so I see absolutely no reason at all to go white to play Lingering Souls instead of keeping it monoblack and painless as BrandonJames16 stated.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
I got away with 4 color 8 rack for a few weeks, I'm sure lingering souls and going white does not cost as much as you're making it sound. Many here are already going for 2 colors, I'd not recommend more than that but it's certainly possible.
Raven's Crime is a wonderful reason to not play lands as fuel for Bloodghasts, but often a hellbent opponent just plays their top deck because they know it'll be discarded otherwise. There's no reason to Crime in that case so Bloodghast should be fine to experiment with. I just don't think you can over commit to dropping lands for them every turn, it's still advantageous to keep your opponent's hand empty. As such, they're not likely a 4 of, maybe not even a 3 of, but I could see 2 making their way in some lists.
Hey Rob, when are you gonna stream again? I've held off playing Rack for a while since i picked up skred, but i want to try it out some more.
Soon.(tm)
Actually I have been playing a TON lately but it's been RG ponza archetype. I feel like that deck is extremely well positioned and a relatively unexplored archetype. Perfect for people like me who like to tinker. Would you care if I was streaming something other than 8Rack?
Side note: someone sent me a private message asking a question and it made me realize that if I have a person on ignore for this this forum and someone else uses something they write in a quote, the entire post is hidden. SO basically I am only seeing "clean" posts, thus I am probably missing some questions pointed at me. Basically send me private messages if you have a direct question.
Rob, would love to see you return to streaming soon. And if you want to do RG Ponza that is fine. I'd like to see it. I figured you might go back to 8Rack streaming once the new 3 mana board wipe in Hour of Devastation is out. It will be interesting to see how well that fits in. I'm thinking it'll be great for 8Rack but we'll see.
Sorry, I know this is a Modern 8Rack forum so I'll cut the Standard talk and mention the card Mirage Mirror, which I thought might be a possibility for 8Rack. Unfortunately, I just found out in the Rules Forum you cannot activate it at the beginning of your opponent's upkeep and copy The Rack or Shrieking Affliction and deal double damage. Still, a possible sideboard option perhaps, to copy opponent's threats for blocks? Eh, probably not. I guess it'd primarily be an extra removal spell if used that way and only necessary for creatures we can't hit with Fatal Push or Dismember. And Bontu's Last Reckoning is probably just better for that purpose for three mana. Was really hoping it could be used to copy rack cards. Are there any other possible uses for this card that I'm not thinking of? It seems like it could be really good, but maybe not so much for 8Rack.
Esperino> Fortunately for us we already have a really good matchup against Death's Shadow with monoblack, so I see absolutely no reason at all to go white to play Lingering Souls instead of keeping it monoblack and painless as BrandonJames16 stated.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
What?! If 8Rack is so good against Death's Shadow decks, that would mean it's one of the best decks in the format and people should be winning Shadow-infested events left and right with it. We must let everybody know!
Oh, sure. I can totally see that being in the opponent's head, but I would venture that it is always correct to Crime in that situation. Ghast is really just an engine that wins you the game eventually and maybe pulls some cards by forcing them to spend removal. I've never used Ghast in the deck before (because sadly I don't have any), but that would be my initial assumption of how to play it in the deck.
I would assume a few more things about Bloodghast in the deck, but that's a different conversation.
Esperino> Fortunately for us we already have a really good matchup against Death's Shadow with monoblack, so I see absolutely no reason at all to go white to play Lingering Souls instead of keeping it monoblack and painless as BrandonJames16 stated.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
What?! If 8Rack is so good against Death's Shadow decks, that would mean it's one of the best decks in the format and people should be winning Shadow-infested events left and right with it. We must let everybody know!
Haha # Overreaction
Just because a deck has a good matchup against a good deck doesn't mean "It's the best!!" Lol magic is matchup based bra
Esperino> Fortunately for us we already have a really good matchup against Death's Shadow with monoblack, so I see absolutely no reason at all to go white to play Lingering Souls instead of keeping it monoblack and painless as BrandonJames16 stated.
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
What?! If 8Rack is so good against Death's Shadow decks, that would mean it's one of the best decks in the format and people should be winning Shadow-infested events left and right with it. We must let everybody know!
Honestly I do feel it's one of the better decks in the format right now as long as lingering souls and dredge don't pick up significantly.
Just because a deck has a good matchup against a good deck doesn't mean "It's the best!!" Lol magic is matchup based bra
If you have a good matchup against a deck that's holding such a large share of the metagame as Death's Shadow, then you are probably one of the best decks in the format. 8Rack has some very nice matchups between a lot of the 10 most played decks, but also some really poor ones. Shadow is not just "a good deck", it's currently "the best deck". World of difference there.
Also, what do matchups have to do with form-fitting undergarments designed to support a woman's breasts? I can't figure this out for the life of me.
Just because a deck has a good matchup against a good deck doesn't mean "It's the best!!" Lol magic is matchup based bra
If you have a good matchup against a deck that's holding such a large share of the metagame as Death's Shadow, then you are probably one of the best decks in the format. 8Rack has some very nice matchups between a lot of the 10 most played decks, but also some really poor ones. Shadow is not just "a good deck", it's currently "the best deck". World of difference there.
Also, what do matchups have to do with form-fitting undergarments designed to support a woman's breasts? I can't figure this out for the life of me.
Haha tricks of life I guess, I also think 8-Rack is a pretty good deck right now and well situated, and then there are some pretty bad matchups too where I find myself facing a lot like Tron and Collected Company stuff
True, and collective brutality can ruin their day if you hit a mana dork and a CC or the likes.
Qustion for you guys, in light of Bontu's Last Reckoning what removal and sweeper package will you be running MB and SB? (I feel like I still want a Flaying Tendrills or two in the side)
I still want two flaying tendrils as voice of resurgence and kitchen finks still show up from time to time and are a headache to deal with.
Based on my experience with damnation, im not sure I even want Bontu's reckoning. Decks that play tons of small creatures fast are usually killable with tendrils. Decks that play lots of creatures that get above 2 CMC are usually slow enough that we make them discard the majority of their stuff and they have trouble mustering enough lands and cards to make a board wipe attractive for us. For sweepers I'm sticking with two tendrils in the board
I still want two flaying tendrils as voice of resurgence and kitchen finks still show up from time to time and are a headache to deal with.
Based on my experience with damnation, im not sure I even want Bontu's reckoning. Decks that play tons of small creatures fast are usually killable with tendrils. Decks that play lots of creatures that get above 2 CMC are usually slow enough that we make them discard the majority of their stuff and they have trouble mustering enough lands and cards to make a board wipe attractive for us. For sweepers I'm sticking with two tendrils in the board
My thinking is similar to yours yellow mountain in the way that I do think you pretty much need to focus on the racks if you're going to play them. I personally recommend no more than three cards that deviate from the linearity of the Rack approach MD and personally just play one Angler/ wincon. SB can be a different story especially if you go transformative.
I know other people have had success with more deviation, these are just my experiences.
Legacy: Pox, R/B Goblins
Commander: Mono Black, Mono Blue
Pauper: Goblins
Thats my thought process, sorry if my sentence structure is a mess. Typing this at work in between patients lol
Yeah, white has some really good SB-options we don't get by playing monoblack, but it also comes at a steep price. It's just ignorant to keep ignoring that fact.
SirFrancois> Yeah, but the problem with Bloodghast is that he wants us to play lands, otherwise he'll just stay in the graveyard... And in our deck we rarely wanna go more than 3 lands in play, the rest is kept as a fuel for Raven's Crime to keep our opponent in Hellbent-mode, so that our wincons do what they are meant to be doing.
Raven's Crime is a wonderful reason to not play lands as fuel for Bloodghasts, but often a hellbent opponent just plays their top deck because they know it'll be discarded otherwise. There's no reason to Crime in that case so Bloodghast should be fine to experiment with. I just don't think you can over commit to dropping lands for them every turn, it's still advantageous to keep your opponent's hand empty. As such, they're not likely a 4 of, maybe not even a 3 of, but I could see 2 making their way in some lists.
"Reveal a Dragon"
What are they "choosing accordingly"?
"Reveal a Dragon"
Rob, would love to see you return to streaming soon. And if you want to do RG Ponza that is fine. I'd like to see it. I figured you might go back to 8Rack streaming once the new 3 mana board wipe in Hour of Devastation is out. It will be interesting to see how well that fits in. I'm thinking it'll be great for 8Rack but we'll see.
I always like to play discard decks in Standard and there are some great cards in Hour of Devastation for my Standard discard deck, including Ammit Eternal in addition to Dreamstealer, Torment of Hailfire, Doomfall, and Torment of Venom.
Sorry, I know this is a Modern 8Rack forum so I'll cut the Standard talk and mention the card Mirage Mirror, which I thought might be a possibility for 8Rack. Unfortunately, I just found out in the Rules Forum you cannot activate it at the beginning of your opponent's upkeep and copy The Rack or Shrieking Affliction and deal double damage. Still, a possible sideboard option perhaps, to copy opponent's threats for blocks? Eh, probably not. I guess it'd primarily be an extra removal spell if used that way and only necessary for creatures we can't hit with Fatal Push or Dismember. And Bontu's Last Reckoning is probably just better for that purpose for three mana. Was really hoping it could be used to copy rack cards. Are there any other possible uses for this card that I'm not thinking of? It seems like it could be really good, but maybe not so much for 8Rack.
What?! If 8Rack is so good against Death's Shadow decks, that would mean it's one of the best decks in the format and people should be winning Shadow-infested events left and right with it. We must let everybody know!
they might choose not to play that card and make you choose between ghast/crime if you draw land
I would assume a few more things about Bloodghast in the deck, but that's a different conversation.
"Reveal a Dragon"
Haha # Overreaction
Just because a deck has a good matchup against a good deck doesn't mean "It's the best!!" Lol magic is matchup based bra
Legacy: Pox, R/B Goblins
Commander: Mono Black, Mono Blue
Pauper: Goblins
Honestly I do feel it's one of the better decks in the format right now as long as lingering souls and dredge don't pick up significantly.
If you have a good matchup against a deck that's holding such a large share of the metagame as Death's Shadow, then you are probably one of the best decks in the format. 8Rack has some very nice matchups between a lot of the 10 most played decks, but also some really poor ones. Shadow is not just "a good deck", it's currently "the best deck". World of difference there.
Also, what do matchups have to do with form-fitting undergarments designed to support a woman's breasts? I can't figure this out for the life of me.
Haha tricks of life I guess, I also think 8-Rack is a pretty good deck right now and well situated, and then there are some pretty bad matchups too where I find myself facing a lot like Tron and Collected Company stuff
Legacy: Pox, R/B Goblins
Commander: Mono Black, Mono Blue
Pauper: Goblins
Tron is just hopeless
Qustion for you guys, in light of Bontu's Last Reckoning what removal and sweeper package will you be running MB and SB? (I feel like I still want a Flaying Tendrills or two in the side)
Legacy: Pox, R/B Goblins
Commander: Mono Black, Mono Blue
Pauper: Goblins
Based on my experience with damnation, im not sure I even want Bontu's reckoning. Decks that play tons of small creatures fast are usually killable with tendrils. Decks that play lots of creatures that get above 2 CMC are usually slow enough that we make them discard the majority of their stuff and they have trouble mustering enough lands and cards to make a board wipe attractive for us. For sweepers I'm sticking with two tendrils in the board
BChainer, Dementia Master(Big Mana/Reanimator)
BRRakdos, The Showstopper (Mass Life Loss/Ramp)
BUThe Scarab God (Zombie Tribal/Control)
BWKarlov of the Ghost Council (Life Gain)
BGJarad, Golgari Lich Lord (Stompy/Dredge)
BRGProssh, Skyraider of Kher (Tokens/Non-infinite Combo)