Congratulations, I'm happy to hear you doing well with the deck. I think it's great that you're switching up your sideboard pool. I would definitely recommend trying out as many potential sideboard cards as possible in order to get a feel for them. As for your question regarding Jund, I feel Gideon of the Trials is amazing when you're on the play. He can snipe a Liliana or lock down a Goyf, on the draw he is less so, specifically because of the threat of a hasty BBE. The ways I primarily win against Jund are either grinding them down through an Emeria, sculpting your board state to accommodate slamming a Sun Titan or by mana screwing them. Scavenging Ooze is a card we care about, an early Liliana too, to a lesser extent. Remember to play around K-Command if possible, meaning to exile meaningful threats you do not want to be recurred. Wraths are an equalizer and one of our best ways to swing card advantage. Be patient and they be coaxed to over extend.
Managed a 3-2 score tonight in the same league (Friendly MTGO League). I lost to Elves (0-2 meh) due to my misclick passing a turn for free (he had a superstart with like 12 elves in play turn 3, but I would have been in a good position with my *** in hand). Game 1 he played 3 Archdruids in a row and I couldnt keep up, no mass removal. I also lost to Jeff Hoogland (!) playing a mean Dimir Eldrazi deck (1-2, in one of the games he had a perfect hand with turn 2 Thoughtknot Seer, turn3 TS again, turn 4 Reality Smasher).
Wins: 2-1 agains UR Burn (I am now siding Leylines, so no big deal), fast win against Grishoalbrand (I still play maindeck Negates, game 2 I start with Relic of Progenitus in hand) and a tasty win against Blue Tron (game 1: he finds the Tron and plays Treasure Mage into Sundering Titan, followed by Mindslaver + Academy Ruins lock; game 2: I have Disdainful Strokex2 and Ceremonoious Rejection in the side, so I'm pretty set up - he basically cant play anything while I beat down with Lone Missionary+Flickerwisp; game 3: he doesnt find a third land for a while and I eventually land Crucible, he concedes when he starts running out of basics).
It's too bad you misclicked against elves. As using a wrath on that boardstate should have been good enough to push the match to a third game. Which would mean you'd be on the play and therefore favoured. Losing to a rouge deck isn't that bad, one piloted by a pro even more so. Good job, and good luck in the future!
So I'm thinking of shifting two cards in the main. Replacing Kami of False Hope for Gideon Jura and a Ghost Quarter for a Tectonic Edge. My thinking for Gideon is he can slightly improve your burn and combo matchup abiet only if you have a GotT Emblem. Regardless, Gideon is still an arguably better magic card, one that also does not rely on your graveyard. With mid-range, primary Jund being more prevelant in the format, I agree with Tamait and think this desision is correct. As for Technical Edge, it's mainly because varients of Tron running now four basics. You also get some fringe upside when playing against scapeshift or Cryptic Command decks, as it helps to play through countermagic. Switching from GQ to Tec Edge will worsen my match against decks like Infect and Affinity as they will generally never have more than three lands in play before the match is decided. However we are already favoured in those matches anyway.
It's too bad you misclicked against elves. As using a wrath on that boardstate should have been good enough to push the match to a third game. Which would mean you'd be on the play and therefore favoured. Losing to a rouge deck isn't that bad, one piloted by a pro even more so. Good job, and good luck in the future!
So I'm thinking of shifting two cards in the main. Replacing Kami of False Hope for Gideon Jura and a Ghost Quarter for a Tectonic Edge. My thinking for Gideon is he can slightly improve your burn and combo matchup abiet only if you have a GotT Emblem. Regardless, Gideon is still an arguably better magic card, one that also does not rely on your graveyard. With mid-range, primary Jund being more prevelant in the format, I agree with Tamait and think this desision is correct. As for Technical Edge, it's mainly because varients of Tron running now four basics. You also get some fringe upside when playing against scapeshift or Cryptic Command decks, as it helps to play through countermagic. Switching from GQ to Tec Edge will worsen my match against decks like Infect and Affinity as they will generally never have more than three lands in play before the match is decided. However we are already favoured in those matches anyway.
I'm glad you agree with my thought! Meanwhile, I played again with the deck, finishing | 2 - 2 |
Affinity | 2 - 0 |
It's a really easy matchup, especially post-sideboard. Stony Silence and Sorcerous Spyglass are key, obviously.
Zoo | 1 - 2 |
This too is an easy matchup, but I lost because of my greediness in the first match (keeping the perfect hand against zoo but only with one land and obviously not drawing any) and because he got lucky topdecking a Lightning Bolt at the right time in the third match. The guy admitted it and even offered me a coffee, it was very kind of him!
Bogles | 1 - 2 |
This felt unwinnable without wraths. Even with them, it's hard to pass totem auras and such protections post-sideboard. He even added Seal of Primordium to fight my Detention Sphere.
What I've learned (i like to do this kind of lists every time I play~):
Runed Halo may be a necessary card in the sideboard, to have an angle against decks like scapeshift, ad nauseam and bogles.
Given your advice, I'm getting better at playing with Gideon of the Trials, so I'm keeping him. The synergy with Gideon Jura proved to be strong against a great variety of decks; affinity and aggros in primis.
I found Disenchant to be marginally better than Stony Silence in the sideboard, at least in my case. Against affinity we have already a good matchup and Blood Moon is simply too relevant in my meta to not have an answer. Most cards that ruin our strategy are enchantments or artifacts: Rest in Peace, Leyline of the Void, Blood Moon, Torpor Orb... cards that Disenchant answer, but Stony Silence cannot. The only doubts I have on this matter are in regard to Tron (bad matchup in general) and the fact that Disenchant cannot be recurred with Sun Titan in case of ineffectiveness.
I've never been a big fan of Blade Splicer, always seeing it as more of a UW midrange/value card. It's probably really good there. History of Benalia is actually probably better in that deck, but for us the value of a bigger, first striking blocker is likely more than a slower pair of 2/2s with a follow up punch.
Keep in mind, I haven't tested it so I could definetly be wrong. Now, History of Benalia is obviously very reminiscent of Blade Splicer in that they both enter and provide four power. There are pro's and con's to each, such as the golem produced by Blade Splicer being able to block an Etched Champion. Or that History of Benalia can be recurred through a Grafdiggers Cage. However I'm not sure that this is actually such an apt comparison. Looking at the cards History of Benalia seems inherenly more aggressive, where as the first strike on the golem can be used to deter attacks and stall a board state. It's worth mentioning that Court Hussar is a Knight and that some builds of Emeria have played Knight of the White Orchid in the past.
Knight of the White Orchid could allow the deck to come from being behind on the draw to effectively being ahead, setting up an early Verdict and also being a suitable blocker--effectively it's a tempo-reversing card. Hussar is a long-game draw engine. History is an aggro card. They should not be compared.
I think History has the potential to be quite good indeed, but I'd be very surprised if this was the case in our deck.
Personally, I don't see the card working towards our game plan, even though it could prove strong.
What about Teferi, Hero of Dominaria? And has anyone tried Reflector Mage since the Bloodbraid Elf unban? Great synergy with Flickerwisp and can trade with the elf. I would like to hear your opinion on Weathered Wayfarer too, a card that seems too little discussed.
How are is everybody sideboarding against affinity and eldrazi tron? I feel like I’m dedicating more sideboard slots to these matchups, then cards I’m actually pulling from the deck. I’m running a similar Wu version to some of the more recent posts.
Is it possible to update the sideboard guide at the beginning of the thread?
Could you please post a sideboard list and how you tend to board? As for boarding too much that's definitely possible, we are favored in these match ups regardless but the key cards you should remember to bring in are Stony Silence, Sorcerous Spyglass and any additional wrath from the board (assuming you have one). Affinity is easy, you cut all Wall of Omens and some of the top end, if you're on the draw and need extra slots I would also consider cutting Crucible of Worlds. E-Tron is less intuitive and changes based on play or draw, I usually board out a mixture of Lone Missionary, Flickerwisp and Path to Exile.Which one's and how many largely depends on play or draw as well as what cards you see post sideboard. Anyway I sideboard this way because those creatures do not trade profitably and are blown out by Walking Balista, Endbringer and Warping Wail. Removing 1 - 2 PtE is because a lot of E-Tron players will leave in Chalice of the Void and continue to play it on 1 in games 2 and maybe 3. I would also recommend removing 1 - 2 Gideon of the Trials on the draw, as on curve it matches up terribly against a Reality Smasher. One more thing, if you have counter magic, preferably Disdainful Stroke bring that in too. Save this for All is Dust, Karn Liberated or Ulamog, the Ceaseless Hunger. Good luck!
Sideboard has been a work in progress lately, and I just don’t feel like I’m doing it right between games. Do you mind posting sideboarding strategy for other common matchups? The deck has come a long way since the primer
Made another 4-1 on MTGO: I was 4-0 before I stumbled on another BR Hollow One. I won Game 1 after he basically miscast a couple of Burning Inquiries (lucky for me) without landing anything. Game 2 and 3 he didnt have any particularly good hands, he just played his game and I felt I didnt have the right answers every time. I tried 2 different SB strategies: I always sided out land hate, Game 2 for GY hate, Game 3 for Leylines (+ Runed Halo and Settle the Wreckage in both cases). I kept Negates in at least in Game 2, but I was unsure whether I should or not. Game 3 I also took in a Blood Moon I didnt see coming. What is the right strategy against this deck (or better SB options/strategies)?
Other matches
UW Taking Turns (1-1): Game 2 I play stupidly, trying to wreck his manabase with a Crucible in play, but he runs me over after a long time. He concedes before Game 3, I dont really know why. He was running out of time and it was clear at that point that I had answers for his few win conditions (provided that I didnt play like a total noob).
8Rack (2-0): I won without playing Leylines, so he obviously wasnt extremely lucky. I think he only played 1 Shrieking Affliction as a damage threat in an entire game.
D&T (2-0)
It's easier to play control against this, because you can stall the board with creatures when Thalia is in play, and you have the same threats Leonin Arbiter is good with. He also plays some unusual cards like Glory-Blound Initiate or Loyal Sentry (this is post-sb I think). But both games feel pretty smooth for me.
Bogles (2-0): this felt pretty unwinnable for him. Game 1 I Verdict his Bogle, he doesnt find another threat before I start controlling the board. Game 2 I dont even get to play mass removal, with RH on Bogle and Detention Sphere on 3xEthereal Armor.
I would like to try playing 1 Ojutai's Command, what would you take out?
You have your sideboard listed at sixteen cards. I think you wrote Ceremonious Resection twice by mistake. The cards I would consider cutting are Wheel of Sun and Moon, you already have three graveyard hate spells in Relic of Projenitus and Settle the Wreckage. Ceremonious Rejection, Affinity, E-Tron and Lantern are all already favoured matchups the only other matchups Rejection can come in are Tron and Eggs. With the three maindeck Negate and additional Disdainful Stroke in the side, this feels unessisary. Lastly I would consider trimming a Leyline of Sanctity because you bring in Leyline and Ojutai's Command for similar matchups, those being Burn and Titanshift.
Regardless of your eventual choice, I do have questions about your board in general.
@SpaceStuff while I wouldn't mind writting a sideboard guide for matches that I am extremely confident in or offering tips in general. I would be afraid of writting a comprehensive guide for a few reasons. Firstly, I'm not perfect, I know that I missboard all the time or that in some situations other people would board differently from me. That and because I haven't been as active in magic as I would've liked in the past month or so, I would be worried decks have changed subtly in main or side and to write a good guide your knowledge really has to be up to date. If there are matchups your worried or struggling with, let us know and we'll all help you out.
Pithing Needle on an Arbor Elf sounds neache but it can definetly win you the game in some situations. I think I remeber you mentioning, taking that very line earlier in the thread. As far as a board is concerned if it works for you then that's good enough. Flickerwisp is one of the best cards in the deck for a reason, so going up to a playset sounds reasonable. Keep in mind though, there is a big difference between play three copies of a card and playing two. If your goal is to see at least one Negate early in the game, every game, then running just the two copies may be unreaslistic. I'd recommend running the numbers through a hypergeometric calculator just so you know your averages. I'm glad Negate has been working out for you. If you don't mind me asking, when has it usually been dead and what are the matches that make you grateful you have it?
No I mean 2 runed halo + 1 flickerwisp, no Negates. Ill tell you later about them if you want a precise report
In general and after some months of play my general feeling is that they are almost never bad. At least it happens frequently that they let me win games faster, blocking threats in the long game and not lwtting your opponent come back into the game. They are probably not enough for bad matchups game 1, of course, they just win you some random games I guess. But overall I like having them.
I am an advocate of a two of Ruined Halo in the deck. Especially with one in the main and one in the side board. It helps a lot of bad matches and is very rarley truely dead. I was actually planning on picking some up before GP Toronto but cost and the fact I hadn't tested with them yet held me back. Good luck, and let us know how you do with the change!
Not sure if this has already been discussed, but how does the new Damping Sphere fare for us? Tron and Combo decks are arguable our worst matchups, and the sideorb does a great job at hosing them. I don't know if it's a four-of in the board, but a multi-faceted hate card seem pretty hard to beat. The symmetry of Damping Sphere is only mildly concerning, as we are generally not casting more than 1-2 spells a turn for a while, and I'm pretty sure having to pay an extra mana every once in a while will be relatively painless. What is the general consensus on the card?
It won't hurt us at all. It may help some of our worst matchups. Best of all, if it's heavily adopted, it will drive down the share of those matchups in the metagame.
Wins: 2-1 agains UR Burn (I am now siding Leylines, so no big deal), fast win against Grishoalbrand (I still play maindeck Negates, game 2 I start with Relic of Progenitus in hand) and a tasty win against Blue Tron (game 1: he finds the Tron and plays Treasure Mage into Sundering Titan, followed by Mindslaver + Academy Ruins lock; game 2: I have Disdainful Strokex2 and Ceremonoious Rejection in the side, so I'm pretty set up - he basically cant play anything while I beat down with Lone Missionary+Flickerwisp; game 3: he doesnt find a third land for a while and I eventually land Crucible, he concedes when he starts running out of basics).
So I'm thinking of shifting two cards in the main. Replacing Kami of False Hope for Gideon Jura and a Ghost Quarter for a Tectonic Edge. My thinking for Gideon is he can slightly improve your burn and combo matchup abiet only if you have a GotT Emblem. Regardless, Gideon is still an arguably better magic card, one that also does not rely on your graveyard. With mid-range, primary Jund being more prevelant in the format, I agree with Tamait and think this desision is correct. As for Technical Edge, it's mainly because varients of Tron running now four basics. You also get some fringe upside when playing against scapeshift or Cryptic Command decks, as it helps to play through countermagic. Switching from GQ to Tec Edge will worsen my match against decks like Infect and Affinity as they will generally never have more than three lands in play before the match is decided. However we are already favoured in those matches anyway.
I'm glad you agree with my thought! Meanwhile, I played again with the deck, finishing | 2 - 2 |
Affinity | 2 - 0 |
It's a really easy matchup, especially post-sideboard. Stony Silence and Sorcerous Spyglass are key, obviously.
Zoo | 1 - 2 |
This too is an easy matchup, but I lost because of my greediness in the first match (keeping the perfect hand against zoo but only with one land and obviously not drawing any) and because he got lucky topdecking a Lightning Bolt at the right time in the third match. The guy admitted it and even offered me a coffee, it was very kind of him!
Ponza | 2 - 0 |
Hard but fun matches. Spreading Seas is key in the early game, destroying the Utopia Sprawl - Arbor Elf strategy.
Bogles | 1 - 2 |
This felt unwinnable without wraths. Even with them, it's hard to pass totem auras and such protections post-sideboard. He even added Seal of Primordium to fight my Detention Sphere.
What I've learned (i like to do this kind of lists every time I play~):
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
I think History has the potential to be quite good indeed, but I'd be very surprised if this was the case in our deck.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB
Personally, I don't see the card working towards our game plan, even though it could prove strong.
What about Teferi, Hero of Dominaria? And has anyone tried Reflector Mage since the Bloodbraid Elf unban? Great synergy with Flickerwisp and can trade with the elf. I would like to hear your opinion on Weathered Wayfarer too, a card that seems too little discussed.
Is it possible to update the sideboard guide at the beginning of the thread?
Sideboard has been a work in progress lately, and I just don’t feel like I’m doing it right between games. Do you mind posting sideboarding strategy for other common matchups? The deck has come a long way since the primer
Made another 4-1 on MTGO: I was 4-0 before I stumbled on another BR Hollow One. I won Game 1 after he basically miscast a couple of Burning Inquiries (lucky for me) without landing anything. Game 2 and 3 he didnt have any particularly good hands, he just played his game and I felt I didnt have the right answers every time. I tried 2 different SB strategies: I always sided out land hate, Game 2 for GY hate, Game 3 for Leylines (+ Runed Halo and Settle the Wreckage in both cases). I kept Negates in at least in Game 2, but I was unsure whether I should or not. Game 3 I also took in a Blood Moon I didnt see coming. What is the right strategy against this deck (or better SB options/strategies)?
Other matches
UW Taking Turns (1-1): Game 2 I play stupidly, trying to wreck his manabase with a Crucible in play, but he runs me over after a long time. He concedes before Game 3, I dont really know why. He was running out of time and it was clear at that point that I had answers for his few win conditions (provided that I didnt play like a total noob).
8Rack (2-0): I won without playing Leylines, so he obviously wasnt extremely lucky. I think he only played 1 Shrieking Affliction as a damage threat in an entire game.
D&T (2-0)
It's easier to play control against this, because you can stall the board with creatures when Thalia is in play, and you have the same threats Leonin Arbiter is good with. He also plays some unusual cards like Glory-Blound Initiate or Loyal Sentry (this is post-sb I think). But both games feel pretty smooth for me.
Bogles (2-0): this felt pretty unwinnable for him. Game 1 I Verdict his Bogle, he doesnt find another threat before I start controlling the board. Game 2 I dont even get to play mass removal, with RH on Bogle and Detention Sphere on 3xEthereal Armor.
I would like to try playing 1 Ojutai's Command, what would you take out?
Thanks.
Regardless of your eventual choice, I do have questions about your board in general.
1) Why Pithing Needle over Sorcerous Spyglass?
2) Why Wheel of Sun and Moon?
3) How has Negate been for you in the maindeck?
Oh and good job on another 4 - 1!
@SpaceStuff while I wouldn't mind writting a sideboard guide for matches that I am extremely confident in or offering tips in general. I would be afraid of writting a comprehensive guide for a few reasons. Firstly, I'm not perfect, I know that I missboard all the time or that in some situations other people would board differently from me. That and because I haven't been as active in magic as I would've liked in the past month or so, I would be worried decks have changed subtly in main or side and to write a good guide your knowledge really has to be up to date. If there are matchups your worried or struggling with, let us know and we'll all help you out.
2- I dont mind it as a targeting rip, its also a bullet against mill.
But Yes surely it is not a very focused sb, I just dont have that much time to try different stuff.
3) I still like it as it is rarely dead and I Think I am not missing too much. I will try 2 rh and 4th flickerwisp instead.
In general and after some months of play my general feeling is that they are almost never bad. At least it happens frequently that they let me win games faster, blocking threats in the long game and not lwtting your opponent come back into the game. They are probably not enough for bad matchups game 1, of course, they just win you some random games I guess. But overall I like having them.
Modern: Merfolk UU // Green Devotion GG // SkRed Red RR
Legacy: Death & Taxes WW // Burn RR // Death's Shadow Delver UB
Commander: Brago UW // Karlov WB