Yeah, I forgot to mention Soulherder, I actually played against it in a Bant walls build utilizing the etb triggers of Wall of Omens and Wall of Blossoms. It can generate a ton of value and is a lightning rod for removal, I want to test it in UW as a replacement for Phantasmal Image. With the addition of Watcher for Tomorrow we will have twenty-two creatures to synergies with it. I also just like the idea of Sun Titan chaining Flickerwisp into Soul Herder into any other payoff.
a build with 2 or more soulherders probably wants a full set of wall of omens and other expendable blockers, since the herder itself is incapable of blocking. Maybe even one vesperlark to bring back herders that died.
done some initital testings btw, hard to do with proxies but I'm excited with the new cards. From 4 copies I've cut down to just two Watchers. Not getting the exiled card right away is a real drawback, can be the difference between winning and losing in certain games. Also the inability to block the turn it comes into play is also a dangerous drawback in situations when a gurmag angler or a large shadow is about to attack me.
The only issues are that one power dorks don't trade with as many creatures in modern and are terrible at closing the game out. Cool idea though, I could totally see it working.
I initially forgot that Watcher for Tomorrows hideaway ability meant it came into play tapped and was extremely disappointed when I finally realized this. I hope that it proves good enough to still include in the deck but your right coming into play tapped and not giving you the card immediately is dangerous.
I think I'll really miss Spreading Seas, on top of being a nod to Tron, which has been more popular lately. I've also forgotten the number of times I've cheesed out a win by ripping multiple Spreading Seas and locking my opponents out of their colors. Plus it always made me feel smart when I got around a Grafdigger's Cage by using a Field of Ruin / Ghost Quarter to destroy the land enchanted by seas and then returning it with Sun Titan to draw a card.
I also miss Spreading Seas but may switch back depending on the meta or even SBing it. I like Vesperlark but that 3cmc is too high for my taste, especially since the 3 slot is crowded as anything right now. Watcher for Tomorrow is still not blowing me away and will stick with 2 right now. I’ve also been thinking about the deck and it’s main lacking points. We play a tap out creature-based style of control as opposed to the traditional spell based draw-go. We have card advantage, we have pressure, and we have a long game inevitability. I think we lack disruption the way classic UW plays with their spell based counters. Would it be to our favor to start to include these in our builds through creatures (ie Spellstutter Sprite, Cursecatcher,Mausoleum Wanderer)? It gives us early threats, forces them to play around it, and stalls the game in our favor. Terrible topdecks and late game though. Interested in your thoughts on this.
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Older builds actually used to play two mainboard negate, in addition to the two extra in the side.
The argument at the time was that our worst matchups usually involved non-creature spells so dedicating what was seen as two sideboard slots in the maindeck was fine.
The only issues are that one power dorks don't trade with as many creatures in modern and are terrible at closing the game out. Cool idea though, I could totally see it working.
I initially forgot that Watcher for Tomorrows hideaway ability meant it came into play tapped and was extremely disappointed when I finally realized this. I hope that it proves good enough to still include in the deck but your right coming into play tapped and not giving you the card immediately is dangerous.
I think I'll really miss Spreading Seas, on top of being a nod to Tron, which has been more popular lately. I've also forgotten the number of times I've cheesed out a win by ripping multiple Spreading Seas and locking my opponents out of their colors. Plus it always made me feel smart when I got around a Grafdigger's Cage by using a Field of Ruin / Ghost Quarter to destroy the land enchanted by seas and then returning it with Sun Titan to draw a card.
would have been better if they made watcher a mythic rare but does not come into play tapped. I would somehow scrape the money to buy it.
One possible way to get past the cipt drawback of watcher is always try to have a soulherder alive when we cast a watcher, that way we get the card right away. Might be too much hoop to jump through, as herder itself has a big bulls eye on it, and it also means some other creature is blocking enemy creatures while herder blinks the watcher.. either that or we use removal to cover our life total.
I still have 4 spreading seas 4 walls maindeck, eight 2 cmc cantrips are a must in my meta because the decks here are lean and fast.
I think we lack disruption the way classic UW plays with their spell based counters. Would it be to our favor to start to include these in our builds through creatures (ie Spellstutter Sprite, Cursecatcher,Mausoleum Wanderer)? It gives us early threats, forces them to play around it, and stalls the game in our favor. Terrible topdecks and late game though. Interested in your thoughts on this.
adding those would turn us into a different deck. And as already said, those are bad top decks.. we want to minimize the bad topdecks as much as possible since we play the long game.
We also have better cards to fight control and combo with Dovin's Veto. Some planeswalkers like Narset, Parter of Veils and Dovin Hand of Control in the sideboard also help to slow down decks that rely on casting cantrips or those who try to cast multiple spells in one turn.
Testing updates:
- I’ve taken out the Watchers. Not a fan of the card and feel like it slows us down at best. I will keep the 2x Soulherders though.
- Speaking of Soulherder shenanigans... SH into a Flickerwisp at the end of turn + opponents permanent = their target permanent removed for the entirety of their turn. That trick has legit won me a few games.
- I’ve decided to main deck 2 Dovins Veto as I’m facing a lot of combo and control online
- I was also debating on bringing back the Spreading Seas when I decided to test out Fblthp, the lost. Don’t laugh. For two mana I get a chump blocker and card advantage. It’s weaker than Thraben Inspector but requires less overall mana. Between FW and SH blinking out WoO and FtL, I’ve been getting consistent card draw on bodies to hold off the game. Maybe I’m crazy but I’m interested in testing it more after some promising results.
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I’ll def let you all know my takes as I go on. As for DV, no regrets. Having 2 MB like the classic builds has been clutch against a majority of my matchups. The fact that it is uncounterable can’t be overstated.
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Testing updates:
- I’ve taken out the Watchers. Not a fan of the card and feel like it slows us down at best. I will keep the 2x Soulherders though.
- Speaking of Soulherder shenanigans... SH into a Flickerwisp at the end of turn + opponents permanent = their target permanent removed for the entirety of their turn. That trick has legit won me a few games.
- I’ve decided to main deck 2 Dovins Veto as I’m facing a lot of combo and control online
- I was also debating on bringing back the Spreading Seas when I decided to test out Fblthp, the lost. Don’t laugh. For two mana I get a chump blocker and card advantage. It’s weaker than Thraben Inspector but requires less overall mana. Between FW and SH blinking out WoO and FtL, I’ve been getting consistent card draw on bodies to hold off the game. Maybe I’m crazy but I’m interested in testing it more after some promising results.
that's a nice list. I see that you're all-in on the field of Ruin + crucible plan.
Anyway, I've put back all court hussar. Sadly, the watcher is too inconsistent to be relied upon.. I can be proven wrong on this of course. But for now, Hussar is back.
How's Gideon Blackblade treating you, I've been considering him for my mono white list in the past but he never makes the final cut. Also only two Detention Sphere makes me leary, I like removal and having a generic answer to a trouble some permanent(s). That said you do have to cut something for your changes, I hope it all works out!
@Marinojuk Gideon Blackblade has been amazing for me. His versatility makes him a key cog in my wins. He satisfies GotT’s ultimate. He can protect a creature before I wrath and can get a clean attack afterwards. He gets me major life gain or provides an attacker/blocker when needed. The fact that he’s always an indestructible creature makes it easier for me to be aggressive with him. The two Detention Spheres has been fine so far. Between the three wraths and my exiles, I haven’t really missed it. The DVs have also helped alleviate its exclusion for noncreature problems
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You convinced me to give Gideon Blackblade a try @Chantu9Y ! I'm still not sold on the Fblthp, the Lost and i'm currently goin with Watcher for Tomorrow. I think there's a good debate between him and Wall of Omens but digging 4 cards deep so far in my testing is quite good. Also oponents get scared of attacking into it cause they fear what might be underneath
The changes i made to my new list were basically putting more targets for Ranger Captain of Eos, as i had Giver of Runes and Hex Parasite, and i think having 2 more Thraben Inspector is ideal.
So far this is my current list:
Yeah, definitely a good thing about the site. I'll give Gideon Blackblade another shot but I'm still not completely convinced that he's better than an additional copy of Gideon of the Trials.
@Starstorm
Let us know how your list feels to pilot, it looks pretty cool almost like an amalgamation of everything we've talked about on this thread!
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done some initital testings btw, hard to do with proxies but I'm excited with the new cards. From 4 copies I've cut down to just two Watchers. Not getting the exiled card right away is a real drawback, can be the difference between winning and losing in certain games. Also the inability to block the turn it comes into play is also a dangerous drawback in situations when a gurmag angler or a large shadow is about to attack me.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
The only issues are that one power dorks don't trade with as many creatures in modern and are terrible at closing the game out. Cool idea though, I could totally see it working.
I initially forgot that Watcher for Tomorrows hideaway ability meant it came into play tapped and was extremely disappointed when I finally realized this. I hope that it proves good enough to still include in the deck but your right coming into play tapped and not giving you the card immediately is dangerous.
I think I'll really miss Spreading Seas, on top of being a nod to Tron, which has been more popular lately. I've also forgotten the number of times I've cheesed out a win by ripping multiple Spreading Seas and locking my opponents out of their colors. Plus it always made me feel smart when I got around a Grafdigger's Cage by using a Field of Ruin / Ghost Quarter to destroy the land enchanted by seas and then returning it with Sun Titan to draw a card.
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
The argument at the time was that our worst matchups usually involved non-creature spells so dedicating what was seen as two sideboard slots in the maindeck was fine.
would have been better if they made watcher a mythic rare but does not come into play tapped. I would somehow scrape the money to buy it.
One possible way to get past the cipt drawback of watcher is always try to have a soulherder alive when we cast a watcher, that way we get the card right away. Might be too much hoop to jump through, as herder itself has a big bulls eye on it, and it also means some other creature is blocking enemy creatures while herder blinks the watcher.. either that or we use removal to cover our life total.
I still have 4 spreading seas 4 walls maindeck, eight 2 cmc cantrips are a must in my meta because the decks here are lean and fast.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
adding those would turn us into a different deck. And as already said, those are bad top decks.. we want to minimize the bad topdecks as much as possible since we play the long game.
We also have better cards to fight control and combo with Dovin's Veto. Some planeswalkers like Narset, Parter of Veils and Dovin Hand of Control in the sideboard also help to slow down decks that rely on casting cantrips or those who try to cast multiple spells in one turn.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
- I’ve taken out the Watchers. Not a fan of the card and feel like it slows us down at best. I will keep the 2x Soulherders though.
- Speaking of Soulherder shenanigans... SH into a Flickerwisp at the end of turn + opponents permanent = their target permanent removed for the entirety of their turn. That trick has legit won me a few games.
- I’ve decided to main deck 2 Dovins Veto as I’m facing a lot of combo and control online
- I was also debating on bringing back the Spreading Seas when I decided to test out Fblthp, the lost. Don’t laugh. For two mana I get a chump blocker and card advantage. It’s weaker than Thraben Inspector but requires less overall mana. Between FW and SH blinking out WoO and FtL, I’ve been getting consistent card draw on bodies to hold off the game. Maybe I’m crazy but I’m interested in testing it more after some promising results.
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
How many wisps are you using with the 2 herders?
I think we could update the primer with some new cards before the forum closes down.
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Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Can you post your most recent decklist?
Maindeck (60)
3 Fblthp, the Lost
2 Lone Missionary
4 Wall of Omens
3 Court Hussar
4 Flickerwisp
2 Soulherder
3 Sun Titan
1 Gideon Blackblade
1 Gideon of the Trials
4 Path to Exile
2 Dovin's Veto
2 Supreme Verdict
1 Wrath of God
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Detention Sphere
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
4 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
1 Ghost Quarter
3 Hallowed Fountain
1 Irrigated Farmland
1 Island
6 Plains
1 Prairie Stream
1 Windswept Heath
1 Hex Parasite
1 Kor Firewalker
1 Dovin, Hand of Control
1 Narset, Parter of Veils
1 Teferi, Time Raveler
1 Ceremonious Rejection
1 Dispel
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Damping Sphere
1 Sorcerous Spyglass
2 Rest in Peace
2 Stony Silence
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
Anyway, I've put back all court hussar. Sadly, the watcher is too inconsistent to be relied upon.. I can be proven wrong on this of course. But for now, Hussar is back.
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
Nexus MTG News // Nexus - Magic Art Gallery // MTG Dual Land Color Ratios Analyzer // MTG Card Drawing Odds Calculator
Want to play a UW control deck in modern, but don't have jace or snaps?
Please come visit us at the Emeria Titan control thread
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
UWAzorius Titan ControlUW
BWOrzhov ControlBW
The changes i made to my new list were basically putting more targets for Ranger Captain of Eos, as i had Giver of Runes and Hex Parasite, and i think having 2 more Thraben Inspector is ideal.
So far this is my current list:
3 Emeria, the Sky Ruin
2 Irrigated Farmland
1 Blast Zone
3 Field of Ruin
4 Flooded Strand
3 Hallowed Fountain
6 Plains
2 Windswept Heath
1 Island
Creatures
1 Hex Parasite
1 Giver of Runes
2 Thraben Inspector
3 Lone Missionary
3 Watcher for Tomorrow
2 Court Hussar
1 Champion of Wits
2 Soulherder
2 Ranger-Captain of Eos
3 Sun Titan
1 Gideon Blackblade
1 Gideon, Ally of Zendikar
2 Gideon of the Trials
Instants
4 Path to Exile
Sorcery
1 Wrath of God
2 Supreme Verdict
Enchantment
3 Detention Sphere
Artifact
1 Crucible of Worlds
2 Damping Sphere
1 Detention Sphere
2 Force of Negation
2 Runed Halo
3 Dovin's Veto
1 Settle the Wreckage
2 Stony Silence
2 Rest in Peace
@Starstorm
Let us know how your list feels to pilot, it looks pretty cool almost like an amalgamation of everything we've talked about on this thread!